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All the money given to Ukraine should've had the price tag of meaningful reforms attached to it. That country needs a new revolution, though with Russia on their doorstep there is no way things would not get worse.
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# ? Dec 21, 2016 00:25 |
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# ? May 15, 2024 02:54 |
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The problem is the west did the opposite of what russian propaganda said. They didn't meddle, the barely got involved at all. Both out of disinterest and a genuine attempt to placate russia. Russia of course plays by no rules and are great at propaganda. Russia was full out invading Ukraine with its army while shouting that the west launched a coup and installed a FASCIST JUNTA and nato needs to stop attacking and antagonizing poor victim Russia. Putin knew the west doesn't give a poo poo about Ukraine, and if they actually did much to help it would play into his propaganda about western encirclement. And the west actually did try to put a price tag on money. My friend is a laywer in Ukraine doing economic law poo poo, and he was really optimistic about this. A huge loan would be given, but with strings attached. Problem was most of the strings were less "be less corrupt and tackle poverty" and more "be more neo-liberal" and even then Ukraine would ignore or break a lot of these agreements. Also there's a particular breed of libertarian that thrives in eastern europe, it can only germinate in post-soviet failures. For instance my lawyer friend really believed that if they simply reduce government powers and ability to meddle in the economy and had a true free market, corruption would vanish. Corruption and monopolies are products of statism you see, once there's true economic freedom all other freedoms will follow. These folk have generally grown up at the tail end of the soviet union and then under horrible corrupt croney-capitalist or kleptocrats. They idolize the US and western europe and see the free market as the only thing they lack. A couple friends in Ukraine, a bunch from Poland, former Yugoslavia, all the exact same attitude. Oh they also loving love the idea of a flat tax, that's always a common thing as well. Baronjutter fucked around with this message at 00:56 on Dec 21, 2016 |
# ? Dec 21, 2016 00:50 |
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Jesus, so loving transparent, Republicans. Even if it still in the negatives, they seem to be really happy about the hacks. BTW, I wanted to post this yesterday, but the events in Ankara and Berlin took precedence. I don't like the source but it's the only place I could find things compiled, but apparently the CalExit movement is being bankrolled by the Kremlin. They've opened a "people's embassy" but have been receiving funding and support from the Anti-Globalization Movement of Russia Fake Edit: There's a link to a Moscow Times article that goes into further detail https://themoscowtimes.com/articles/californias-separatist-movement-gets-an-embassy-in-moscow-56568 Young Freud fucked around with this message at 08:05 on Dec 21, 2016 |
# ? Dec 21, 2016 01:07 |
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I'd expect the opposite. Democrats enraged at russia/putin and his rating going way down, while republicans turning a blind eye to his influence and ignoring the whole thing. Instead it seems democrats are slightly more down on putin while republicans swoon over the shirtless slayer of liberalism.
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# ? Dec 21, 2016 02:03 |
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What's up Poland? I hear PiS caved in and decided not to ban non-govt media from the Sejm (yet) and it only took nearly a week of protesting on the streets!
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# ? Dec 21, 2016 09:50 |
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Looks like Romania will get its first woman prime minister, who will also be our first muslim/tatar prime minister
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# ? Dec 21, 2016 13:10 |
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This is too precious.
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# ? Dec 21, 2016 15:45 |
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So it's still at -10? Isn't that still pretty bad? Or do I not understand the scale?
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# ? Dec 21, 2016 15:48 |
spacetoaster posted:So it's still at -10? Isn't that still pretty bad? Or do I not understand the scale?
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# ? Dec 21, 2016 15:51 |
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cinci zoo sniper posted:-10 there basically means that out of 20 Republicans 9 view Putin favourably. Which is fairly remarkable by itself, what is there to say about dramatic shift in the Republican consensus over less than half a year. Cognitive dissonance because they have to put the checkmark near the R guy and this time he's a russian symphatizing maniac
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# ? Dec 21, 2016 15:56 |
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SMILLENNIALSMILLEN posted:This is too precious. Well he did do them a solid.
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# ? Dec 21, 2016 15:58 |
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We've just published a new report on Bellingcat, Putin’s Undeclared War: Summer 2014 – Russian Artillery Strikes against Ukraine, where we've examined a lot of satellite imagery for crater sites in Ukraine and artillery launch locations in Russia, and discovered that Russia was shelling Ukraine very frequently in 2014. Here's the brief summary from the report:quote:- Artillery units of the Russian Armed Forces fired at least on 149 separate occasions attacks against Ukraine in the summer of 2014. Another 130 locations were judged likely to have been used as artillery position. AP did a piece on it where they spoke to a couple of experts about our work: quote:Bellingcat's analysis struck independent experts as credible. Just in time for Putin's yearly mega-press conference on Friday.
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# ? Dec 21, 2016 16:58 |
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dex_sda posted:Cognitive dissonance because they have to put the checkmark near the R guy and this time he's a russian symphatizing maniac R stands for Russia, and their color is the red of the Soviet empire.
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# ? Dec 21, 2016 18:30 |
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dex_sda posted:Cognitive dissonance because they have to put the checkmark near the R guy and this time he's a russian symphatizing maniac Foreign policy of both parties over the past couple decades has been pretty similar when it comes to their stance towards foreign powers. The Obama to Trump presidency is different in the fact that Trump is willing to be more conciliatory towards Russia but confrontational towards China. There is also a tendency to view a foreign power as friend or enemy(which can change at any time; this rule can be applied to any nation) and not attempting to understand the underlying politics of a region. You also have a future secretary of state(US top diplomatic position) who will benefit greatly from closer ties to Russia.
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# ? Dec 21, 2016 18:55 |
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owDAWG posted:Foreign policy of both parties over the past couple decades has been pretty similar when it comes to their stance towards foreign powers. The Obama to Trump presidency is different in the fact that Trump is willing to be more conciliatory towards Russia but confrontational towards China. There is also a tendency to view a foreign power as friend or enemy(which can change at any time; this rule can be applied to any nation) and not attempting to understand the underlying politics of a region. Oh sure. I'm just saying it's funny how quickly an average republican's opinion flip-flopped on Russia, irrespective of any reason relevant to them.
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# ? Dec 21, 2016 19:52 |
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dex_sda posted:Oh sure. I'm just saying it's funny how quickly an average republican's opinion flip-flopped on Russia, irrespective of any reason relevant to them. On Russia, or Putin? I go to Russia (and Ukraine) regularly and love my family and the people in that part of the world. Putin and his buddies, on the other hand can drink a bunch of vodka and go swim in the Ivankovo.
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# ? Dec 21, 2016 20:28 |
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spacetoaster posted:On Russia, or Putin?
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# ? Dec 21, 2016 21:34 |
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The opinion will reverse in a couple of months. It's a pretty loaded poll when at the moment when Putin is just an another term for the DNC hacks and nothing else for most people.
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# ? Dec 21, 2016 21:38 |
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spacetoaster posted:On Russia, or Putin? I did not intend to disparage Russia as a country and its inhabitants, apologies. It's a lovely place in many ways. In the context of global politics, however, it is nigh synonymous with Putin and the petro-oligarchs. I consider these to be terrible for society nearly everywhere in the world. The poll asked about Putin specifically, for what it is worth.
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# ? Dec 21, 2016 21:59 |
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This story is remarkable for all sorts of reasonsquote:Android Malware Targeting Ukraine 'Ties Russian GRU To Election Hacks' Brown Moses fucked around with this message at 12:03 on Dec 22, 2016 |
# ? Dec 22, 2016 12:00 |
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I guess counterbattery becomes rather easy when you get the GPS coordinates of the enemy artillery personnel.
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# ? Dec 22, 2016 12:30 |
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Snake was right; war HAS changed.
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# ? Dec 22, 2016 12:57 |
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whoa cyber warfare
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# ? Dec 22, 2016 22:28 |
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Putin's yearly mega press conference is starting, you can play along at home https://twitter.com/DarthPutinKGB/status/812198682149945344
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# ? Dec 23, 2016 09:58 |
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I'm so glad I had to get the oil changed in the car this morning and missed his press conference. Look forward to reading the highlights.
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# ? Dec 23, 2016 18:01 |
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https://youtu.be/1NN6sZRiB-8 I assume that if this was in the US the driver would probably have been shot multiple times by both the cops, security guards and nearby civilians. Personally I always had the predjudice that russian police were almost as gun happy as US police, partly because I know police misconduct is kind of feared/expected in Russia and partly because I have seen so many instances of eastern european riot police brutally beating football hooligans/rioters/protesters. But how common is it for russian police to shoot suspects in comparison to US levels or western european levels, is there any statistics on this that is reliable?
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# ? Dec 23, 2016 21:38 |
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Severe beatings, stitching them up, being utterly corrupt bribe machines, yes. Shooting at everything that moves out of a crippling fear for their safety due to horrible training and institutional culture, no.
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# ? Dec 23, 2016 21:43 |
Zudgemud posted:https://youtu.be/1NN6sZRiB-8 I think the US beats just about every country that's not a third-world shithole. Like there are countries in Latin America where carjacking is considered a "violent crime" in terms of force and the police can legally pop you in the head to stop you from driving off, even if you're not hurting anyone. The US is currently at 1123 deaths during arrests. This includes not only shootings, but also vehicular-related deaths and people who mysteriously drop dead or suffer from "excited delirium" during an arrest.
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# ? Dec 23, 2016 21:43 |
Zudgemud posted:https://youtu.be/1NN6sZRiB-8 Russian police is fairly corrupt, and patrolmen in larger cities will bolster assault rifles and whatnot on some occasions, but the extent of violence will seldom exceed rough handling. They neither fear everyone under the Sun, nor are free of liability for exercising lethal force for any reason other than to stop a lethal force.
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# ? Dec 24, 2016 02:15 |
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Zudgemud posted:https://youtu.be/1NN6sZRiB-8 This has been around for a while, but it comes to mind: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0goGIgwWO4 It's not hyperbole to say that, if this happened in the US, this lady would have been tazed and pummeled for "resisting" after 10 seconds or so.
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# ? Dec 24, 2016 15:31 |
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That is what should be expected from any professional police force. It is horrifying to think that US police behaving like that would come as a genuine surprise nowadays.
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# ? Dec 24, 2016 18:29 |
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Google found me this: http://europe.newsweek.com/russia-police-custody-torture-abuse-441489?rm=eu https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/13/200-people-died-in-russian-police-custody-in-2015-says-website I'm pretty sure that's just the tip of the iceberg. At least USA has FBI that could handle the cases, I don't know what they do in Russia. In Estonia one woman caught in a DUI accident killed herself in the holding cell using her sweater while still under the influence of alcohol and anti-depressants, in spring 2015. The police was found to lack training (they figured she had calmed down), was too busy to check on her (not surprising, considering the funding gets cut regularly so they have to find new ways to optimize - mostly by downsizing). In preceding 7 years (going back from september 2015) 40 people had died in custody - 7 due to suicides and the rest because of health issues. So the chancellor of justice had given new guidelines to the police just few months prior to this case to improve supervision of detainees and to make sure everyone understood what their job description entailed. The police officers were found guilty in that particular case, but didn't get punished because "the new regulations had just been set in force". But if you ask me if I expect bad things to happen to me if under arrest, I say no.
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# ? Dec 24, 2016 20:17 |
jonnypeh posted:Google found me this: http://europe.newsweek.com/russia-police-custody-torture-abuse-441489?rm=eu
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# ? Dec 24, 2016 20:48 |
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This loving year! Woman who survived 33,000ft fall, dies quote:"I am like a cat, I have had nine lives," she told the New York Times. "But if nationalist forces in this country prevail, my heart will burst." Nenonen fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Dec 24, 2016 |
# ? Dec 24, 2016 22:40 |
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Trogdos! posted:What's up Poland? I hear PiS caved in and decided not to ban non-govt media from the Sejm (yet) and it only took nearly a week of protesting on the streets!
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# ? Dec 25, 2016 00:33 |
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cinci zoo sniper posted:Thing is, that even with 200 dead in preliminary detention thrown into the yearly totals, Russian police will fail to reach half of what Americans kill during the detention, probably even just a third if we discard the casualties from MVD special forces operations in Caucasus. It is terrible, but not even close if you compare the populations of both countries. Heck, more people per capita, on average, have died in Estonian custody during past 7 years. Not necessarily saying that for the same causes, but nonetheless. Point is, while I would expect all sorts of negligence and corruption while being detained by Russian police, death or lasting injury would be some of the last thing that I would consider. Maybe it has something to do with less guns in the hands of the population, so police are less jumpy. And no "2nd amendment rights" fanatics go around openly carrying anything from a handgun to a rifle, because the russian state has the potential to gently caress them up real bad. Other than such a thing being outlawed anyway.
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# ? Dec 25, 2016 01:31 |
Yea, I believe that responsible gun control is a major factor. Longer and more serious training also helps, so does lack of "us versus them" mentality in nigh everything.
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# ? Dec 25, 2016 01:49 |
jonnypeh posted:Maybe it has something to do with less guns in the hands of the population, so police are less jumpy. And no "2nd amendment rights" fanatics go around openly carrying anything from a handgun to a rifle, because the russian state has the potential to gently caress them up real bad. Other than such a thing being outlawed anyway. The thing is, US cops end up shooting a good order of magnitude more people than cops get shot. The issue is they're trained that literally anyone can pull a gun and shoot them at any time for no reason and their safety is paramount, so they react to almost anything with extreme violence.
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# ? Dec 25, 2016 02:15 |
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Precisely. It's a direct result of a deeply unhealthy institutional culture that permeates US law enforcement, and goes hand in hand with the lack of national level standards for oversight and training that the US jurisdictional system uses. It also, in no small part, is down to the preferential hiring of people with prior military training (which is fundamentally incompatible with responsible civilian 'frontline' policing) and, in all likelihood, an influx of cases of undiagnosed PTSD in the months and years after a period of US military-involved conflict draws to a close. Also that whole thing of US police officers having literal attacks of 'roid rage. Lovely Joe Stalin fucked around with this message at 02:30 on Dec 25, 2016 |
# ? Dec 25, 2016 02:28 |
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# ? May 15, 2024 02:54 |
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jonnypeh posted:Maybe it has something to do with less guns in the hands of the population, so police are less jumpy. And no "2nd amendment rights" fanatics go around openly carrying anything from a handgun to a rifle, because the russian state has the potential to gently caress them up real bad. Other than such a thing being outlawed anyway. This sort of argument falls on its face when you remember that the demographics most likely to own a gun (richer, whiter) are least likely to get iced by the cops in the US and vice versa.
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# ? Dec 25, 2016 03:21 |