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zegermans posted:I agree caucuses actively discourage voting. agreed, as with primaries that close months before the voting starts.
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Dec 25, 2016 19:06
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Fiction posted:agreed, as with primaries that close months before the voting starts. Eh I guess I agree on that, too. Still wouldn't have saved St. Bernard.
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Dec 25, 2016 19:13
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This weird "St Bernard" meme would make a lot more sense if wasn't the Hillfolk who worked themselves up into a near-cultish certainty about the inevitability of their candidate's victory.
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Dec 25, 2016 19:20
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Cerebral Bore posted:This weird "St Bernard" meme would make a lot more sense if wasn't the Hillfolk who worked themselves up into a near-cultish certainty about the inevitability of their candidate's victory. It fits because it conjures up the image of a slobbering creature with dog-level understanding and loyalty.
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Dec 25, 2016 19:24
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zegermans posted:Well he said Sandra Bland's life could have been saved if she had a job (which was was driving to when she got lynched) STDH
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Dec 25, 2016 19:24
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zegermans posted:It fits because it conjures up the image of a slobbering creature with dog-level understanding and loyalty. Did you seriously just post this without the slightest bit of ironic self-awareness?
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Dec 25, 2016 19:25
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zegermans posted:It fits because it conjures up the image of a slobbering creature with dog-level understanding and loyalty. Don't sign your posts
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Dec 25, 2016 19:33
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https://www.hillaryclinton.com/feed/8-ways-hillary-clinton-just-your-abuela/ I'm just stunned that was their idea of 'outreach" to millennials and Hispanics. Bernie was able to reach them on policy and do so with incredible success. He had people in various college towns ready to fight for him at a moments notice. Trump? He had figures on Breitbart on Infowars carrying his water. It worked. I was at "carb day" and was stunned at the moment of College "bros" rocking Trump gear. Trump didn't have to do poo poo.
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Dec 25, 2016 20:44
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FuzzySkinner posted:https://www.hillaryclinton.com/feed/8-ways-hillary-clinton-just-your-abuela/ wait, is that where the abuela things comes from it's real?
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Dec 25, 2016 22:12
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Mnoba posted:wait, is that where the abuela things comes from it's real? Yes. And the hispanic community called her out on that bullshit. http://www.salon.com/2015/12/23/not_my_abuela_twitter_explodes_in_outrage_over_hillary_clintons_hispandering/
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Dec 25, 2016 22:21
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Mnoba posted:wait, is that where the abuela things comes from it's real? the best part was hillary supporters using the term unironically as if it was a good thing
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Dec 25, 2016 22:21
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zegermans posted:Eh I guess I agree on that, too. Still wouldn't have saved St. Bernard. I notice you still haven't tried to defend her foreign policy.
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Dec 25, 2016 22:29
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holy poo poo i never bother looking it up i figured it was a flubbed word during a speech or something LOL
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Dec 25, 2016 22:33
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SimonCat posted:I notice you still haven't tried to defend her foreign policy. I think the best part was that we had punished Hiliary enough for the Iraq war vote by rejecting her in '08. This election really was the year of projection. Trump projects everything on to others and the Hilbots projected their own behavior by calling anyone with a doubt about Hilliary a tankie
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Dec 25, 2016 22:40
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It was extra absurd for me because "mi abuela" in real life is a loving crazy island woman who practices santeria. So whenever I saw that misguided poo poo I would always imagine Hilldawg covered in chicken blood over an altar to St Jude, praying for free trade agreements,,
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Dec 26, 2016 00:43
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Whoops, wrong thread.
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Dec 26, 2016 00:59
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Rexicon1 posted:It was extra absurd for me because "mi abuela" in real life is a loving crazy island woman who practices santeria. So whenever I saw that misguided poo poo I would always imagine Hilldawg covered in chicken blood over an altar to St Jude, praying for free trade agreements,, Would trust her more than Hillary. Guiding the economy based on the entrails of farm animals sounds a lot more reliable than trusting the free market.
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Dec 26, 2016 01:03
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Rexicon1 posted:It was extra absurd for me because "mi abuela" in real life is a loving crazy island woman who practices santeria. So whenever I saw that misguided poo poo I would always imagine Hilldawg covered in chicken blood over an altar to St Jude, praying for free trade agreements,, MizPiz posted:Would trust her more than Hillary. Guiding the economy based on the entrails of farm animals sounds a lot more reliable than trusting the free market. Voodoo economics.
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Dec 26, 2016 02:42
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FuzzySkinner posted:Yes. hmm going by some of the pro-globalization peeps in this thread, nafta was good for everyone, but according to that article mexicans hate it as much as we do... from this lovely article: https://multi.lectical.net/content/naftas-refugees "One of the most broadly felt effects of NAFTA in Mexico has been the decrease in the price of corn. Since NAFTA was signed in 1994, Mexican corn has had to compete on the market with U.S. corn sold at prices cheaper than it is possible to even produce because of U.S. government subsidy. While the corn prices decreased, the price of tortillas made of that corn more than doubled. Corn is a primary staple in Mexico and some use a phrase "sin maiz, no hay pais" (without corn there is no country). Free Trade has aggressively dismantled many parts of Mexico's domestic economy while the US has prospered. One migrant, while testifying in court in the US after being apprehended by border patrol, explained that he could earn more money working for one day in the U.S. than he could earn in one month back home in Mexico. The choice seems clear. Or rather, the absence of choice. Locally, the killers of Luis Ramirez are set free despite the crime they committed, internationally NAFTA is killing the domestic economy of Mexico and creating millions of economic NAFTA refugees who to survive in a cut throat economy need to follow the capital." so not only is NAFTA used to cut the legs out from under US labor, it's damaged mexican labor as well and created an underclass that must work in america if they want to see anything approaching a wage, but who are abused in america and have little to no rights. further, these economic refugees are used once again to hurt us labor. nafta and free trade sure are swell
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Dec 26, 2016 02:50
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Something about anti-immigrant anti-trade right wingers that is either totally baffling, or points straight to the psychological heart of the right is that I've never seen them put the two together...the idea that free trade has forced migrants to migrate, therefore you could curtail immigration by curtailing trade (at least, the trade that's driving immigration). Either they're too dumb to figure out the connection, or this is another example of being too focused on punishment to address root causes of anything (see also: drug abuse, poverty, abortion, teen pregnancy, gun violence).
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Dec 26, 2016 03:05
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Harping on "Bernie would have won" seems a little intellectually disingenuous to me, if for no other reason than it requires a pretty strong counterfactual (he gets millions more votes) to be true, and then the fairly significant leap of an avowed socalist winning the presidency. At that point "Joe Biden would have won" or "Martin O'Malley would have won" seem at least as plausible. What's the point?
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Dec 26, 2016 04:34
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porfiria posted:Harping on "Bernie would have won" seems a little intellectually disingenuous to me, if for no other reason than it requires a pretty strong counterfactual (he gets millions more votes) to be true, and then the fairly significant leap of an avowed socalist winning the presidency. At that point "Joe Biden would have won" or "Martin O'Malley would have won" seem at least as plausible. What's the point? Because if they stop harping on that, then the next question is whether they helped get Trump elected by undermining Clinton.
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Dec 26, 2016 04:51
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He wouldn't have needed millions more votes, just over 100,000 more.
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Dec 26, 2016 04:58
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SaTaMaS posted:Because if they stop harping on that, then the next question is whether they helped get Trump elected by undermining Clinton. how did bernies undermine hillary? last i checked she undermined herself by ignoring the dems trying to salvage her idiotically-run campaign
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Dec 26, 2016 04:58
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it's sad seeing delusional fools clinging to their failed idiot queen. she was a bigger failure than mcgovern
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Dec 26, 2016 05:02
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Condiv posted:how did bernies undermine hillary? last i checked she undermined herself by ignoring the dems trying to salvage her idiotically-run campaign SaTaMaS posted:Meanwhile: "Hi I'm a Bernie supporter who voted for him in the primaries and spends every day fuming that he lost. Hillary Clinton is an incredibly flawed candidate and everything the GOP and FBI say about her is basically true, but you should vote for her anyways because she's not Trump"
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Dec 26, 2016 05:11
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porfiria posted:Harping on "Bernie would have won" seems a little intellectually disingenuous to me, if for no other reason than it requires a pretty strong counterfactual (he gets millions more votes) to be true, and then the fairly significant leap of an avowed socalist winning the presidency. At that point "Joe Biden would have won" or "Martin O'Malley would have won" seem at least as plausible. What's the point? Biden and Malley also would have won, but they'd have had less of a chance due to their lack of mass appeal and nonexistent campaigns. Supporting them over Sanders would be dangerously irresponsible and indicative of a willingness to gamble the lives and livelihoods of the underprivileged for the sake of personal policy preferences.
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Dec 26, 2016 05:19
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oh that's an interesting theory! too bad it's not backed by anything meanwhile, back in reality land: quote:Everybody could see Hillary Clinton was cooked in Iowa. So when, a week-and-a-half out, the Service Employees International Union started hearing anxiety out of Michigan, union officials decided to reroute their volunteers, giving a desperate team on the ground around Detroit some hope. hillary sank her own campaign through sheer incompetence. you gotta face that man. the nasty bernie bros under your bed didn't sink her, she did!
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Dec 26, 2016 05:22
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Condiv posted:oh that's an interesting theory! too bad it's not backed by anything So, anecdote vs anecdote. I guess we'll call that a draw. edit: In this "reality land" where social media and word-of-mouth just doesn't matter and in no way swayed the election. Instead it was just one decision on a single day. Interesting. SaTaMaS fucked around with this message at 05:32 on Dec 26, 2016 |
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Dec 26, 2016 05:27
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Anyone got any authoritative articles on the state of polling, re: how often it was wrong this cycle, that aren't written by someone working for a polling company or an organization reliant upon them?
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Dec 26, 2016 05:31
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SaTaMaS posted:So, anecdote vs anecdote. I guess we'll call that a draw. Given how close the result was, it would only have taken a couple more decisions like that to do her in.
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Dec 26, 2016 05:32
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Nobody in the Bernie camp thought the email thing had legs. At worst you'd occasionally hear something along the lines of "her general lack of transparency made it look like a substantial scandal existed where none actually did.
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Dec 26, 2016 05:35
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SaTaMaS posted:So, anecdote vs anecdote. I guess we'll call that a draw. your story about nefarious bernie bros isn't an anecdote, it's a theory you pulled from your rear end to keep the terrible truth about abuela at bay. and i think it's p obvious that choosing not to campaign in a state will have a greater effect on an election than nebulous bernie bros
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Dec 26, 2016 05:38
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SaTaMaS posted:So, anecdote vs anecdote. I guess we'll call that a draw. Neither of you are leaning on anecdotes. You're right that lots of new voters decided to stay home, and Condiv's right that the Hillary campaign's unswerving faith in technocratic slider-tweaking led the campaign to make a series of insane unbelievable blunders that cost the race. Cold hard facts, and not at all in contradiction with each other.
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Dec 26, 2016 05:40
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Ferrinus posted:Neither of you are leaning on anecdotes. You're right that lots of new voters decided to stay home, and Condiv's right that the Hillary campaign's unswerving faith in technocratic slider-tweaking led the campaign to make a series of insane unbelievable blunders that cost the race. Cold hard facts, and not at all in contradiction with each other. he's not right that bernie bros caused new voters to stay home tho
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Dec 26, 2016 05:42
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Condiv posted:he's not right that bernie bros caused new voters to stay home tho By... describing her accurately? If you don't like your face, it's not the mirror's fault.
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Dec 26, 2016 05:47
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Ferrinus posted:By... describing her accurately? If you don't like your face, it's not the mirror's fault. i think you misread my post. i said he's not right
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Dec 26, 2016 05:56
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Condiv posted:it's sad seeing delusional fools clinging to their failed idiot queen. she was a bigger failure than mcgovern Well that's the thing isn't it, they can never admit to that especially since they've used the spectre of McGovern to keep the Left wing of the party in line for years. We saw it all summer where they convinced themselves Bernie would be another McGovern. So it can't be that Hilliary wasn't a qualified or good candidate. It was the Evil Bernie Brothers and the perfidious Green Party that ruined it for her. Clinton cannot fail, only be failed
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Dec 26, 2016 06:26
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KomradeX posted:Well that's the thing isn't it, they can never admit to that especially since they've used the spectre of McGovern to keep the Left wing of the party in line for years. We saw it all summer where they convinced themselves Bernie would be another McGovern. it's amazing how hillary was actually the mcgovern. in fact, i think using mcgovern to signify a weak candidate is outmoded now. we should worry if our next nominee is another clinton!
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Dec 26, 2016 06:34
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Condiv posted:it's amazing how hillary was actually the mcgovern. in fact, i think using mcgovern to signify a weak candidate is outmoded now. we should worry if our next nominee is another clinton! I think the McGovern spectre has been out dated fir years, considering that Nixon sabotaged the 72 Democratic Primary and kept the bad blood up between am the factions so they never cohered together. But the reality didn't ever really match the narrative . So we have to pretend that it was McGovern's Left wing beliefs that sunk him and not a party that was too busy fighting itself all of 1972. Clinton is what we should be worried about, candidates so divorced from reality, so married to means testing and computer algorithms that they forget people aren't easily described by computers. She lived up to the strawman criticism of New Deal bureaucrats. Which that is what she would have been prefect as, the head of some department or agency, being a bureaucrat. But that's not how you appeal to voters, just ask Mondale
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Dec 26, 2016 06:50
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