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Hexes and Translocations and Summoning and Necromancy and Transmutations and Charms are all schools that are especially beneficial to hybrids and they are all schools where Tengu and High elves have a three point gap in aptitudes (four for charms!) Saying they're similar species because they can both be hybrids is missing the point.
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Dec 24, 2016 02:11
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IronicDongz posted:yes, but both are hybrids Okay sure but Tengu and High Elves still play pretty differently as a result. I didn't really care about MD or sludge elves or whatever, but HE is a weird removal. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Whatever, as long as it's not another "crawl is too easy, making crawl harder" change I'll take it.
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Dec 24, 2016 02:29
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Turn Deep Elves into Astral Slugs, bring back High Elves but rename them to Sludge Elves, re-balance and re-implement Singularity.
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Dec 24, 2016 02:36
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i feel like someone's saying something about a spell... a high level spell? a translocations spell? god, it's like one of those high-pitched noises right at the edge of hearing... just wish i could tell what they were saying!
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Dec 24, 2016 02:37
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A super version of gells/beckoning that pulls everything in sight to the player and does damage based on the distance and number of enemies pulled. Combo it with disjunction!
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Dec 24, 2016 02:47
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I was talking about a hybrid more from the point of someone that augments there offense with support spells and buffs. Technically anyone who casts magic and also uses a melee is a hybrid but that contains a bunch of different playstyles. It was a poor choice of words on my part. I wasn't trying to argue about what kind of playstyle is better or something anyways. What matters is that with the way their apts are set up, a high elf will play a lot differently than a tengu.
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Dec 24, 2016 03:02
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Tengu is "Reaver: The Race" (remember reavers?)
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Dec 24, 2016 03:10
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Internet Kraken posted:I was talking about a hybrid more from the point of someone that augments there offense with support spells and buffs. Technically anyone who casts magic and also uses a melee is a hybrid but that contains a bunch of different playstyles. It was a poor choice of words on my part. No. You used the word 'hybrid' correctly. They are the ones with a weird definition that includes minion-spammers and quasi-blasters not just self-buffers.
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Dec 24, 2016 04:15
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skalds, crusaders, and reavers can all legitimately be described as 'hybrids', imo, but that doesn't really matter. if the people having a discussion are using different definitions of words, it doesn't really matter who's 'right'; not much useful conversation is going on regardless!
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Dec 24, 2016 04:23
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Okay well if outlining the clear differences between two races isn't useful for discussion then I guess I'm not sure what you guys want for feedback. Unless you just want us to agree with every single dev change.
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Dec 24, 2016 04:29
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Remember, Tengu's might&magic mixing is known as Reavers; it's so distinctive that the Tengu monsters have it as their theme, and so lovely for player characters to attempt that the Reaver starting background was axed and even the most rabid anti-content-cutters [raises own hand] nodded in agreement. Now, if this was given an excuse to introduce some new Conjuration spells that synergize with melee (like a battlesphere and spectral weapon glued together), and also magically fix the hybrid-buff situation, I'd think we'd all be happy. Wishes ,wishes...
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Dec 24, 2016 04:30
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PleasingFungus posted:skalds, crusaders, and reavers can all legitimately be described as 'hybrids', imo, but that doesn't really matter. if the people having a discussion are using different definitions of words, it doesn't really matter who's 'right'; not much useful conversation is going on regardless! I think the discussion can exist and has good points; both parties defined 'hybrid' and sure, their definitions are different but regardless of what you define as 'hybrid', the argument is essentially that "HE and Tengu feel appreciably different to play" (Internet Kraken can correct me on this if this wasn't the point). You can agree or disagree on this, the 'hybrid' bikeshedding doesn't destroy the discussion!
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Dec 24, 2016 04:53
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Internet Kraken posted:Okay well if outlining the clear differences between two races isn't useful for discussion then I guess I'm not sure what you guys want for feedback. Unless you just want us to agree with every single dev change. you're misunderstanding me. you've persuaded me that there is some reasonable difference between he and te; what i was saying was that whether or not they were both classed as 'hybrids' is beside the point. Serephina posted:Remember, Tengu's might&magic mixing is known as Reavers; it's so distinctive that the Tengu monsters have it as their theme, and so lovely for player characters to attempt that the Reaver starting background was axed and even the most rabid anti-content-cutters [raises own hand] nodded in agreement. actually, it's extremely good and fun. maybe not as a start (i wasn't playing back when actual reavers existed - though arguably Wz fills a similar role?), but as a playstyle from maybe midgame on, it's perfectly viable. try it out sometime!
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Dec 24, 2016 06:27
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Speleothing posted:No. You used the word 'hybrid' correctly. They are the ones with a weird definition that includes minion-spammers and quasi-blasters not just self-buffers. Why would it mean "a hybrid of non-magic and magic skills, but only these specific magic skills(charms, transmutations, translocations, hexes) and not these other magic skills(summoning, necromancy, conjurations) which don't count because I say so"? sorry to ice elementalists which people have described for literal years as "a really good hybrid start", you are not a hybrid start anymore unless you only learn ozo's and not throw icicle and summon ice beasts it seems LazyMaybe fucked around with this message at 06:37 on Dec 24, 2016 |
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Dec 24, 2016 06:32
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Boy it sure is fun that I got contaminated by hell effects three times in Cocytus alone! And only had one potion of cure mut and cancelation over the entire game! I guess if this blurry vision gets me killed it was somehow my fault for not being able to swing the RNG in my favor!  EDIT: This was a disaster.  http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/InternetKraken/morgue-InternetKraken-20161224-072546.txt So I thought this game was going well but things went terribly when I tried to do Hell. I never found a book with regeneration the whole game. This is a problem because trying to rest up in Hell without a source of regen takes way to loving long. I was barely able to progress and was regularly stuck sitting in a corridor for hundreds of turns trying to regen HP when enemies and torments kept getting dropped on me. At this point I'm thinking "what the hell can I do about this?". Well I wasn't really getting much out of Kiku since the nature of Hell means you can't really keep a corpse army rolling with you. Without regen I simply wasn't able to make progress. So then I got the "brilliant" idea to drop Kiku for TSO. Yes, that would mean my massive necromancy investment would be wasted. But the free rN+! The health on kills! And what really tempted me was the allure of being able to brand my triple crossbow with holy. I was running around with an unbranded one because the game didn't spawn any brand weapon scrolls. Well that was pretty dumb because without Kiku torment protection I was taking way more damage. TSO health on kills wasn't as strong as I remembered. I burned up pretty much all my supplies in Hell trying to get the bone rune. At that point I'm looking at my character and asking myself if I really wanted to try doing Hell with no healing, no reliable escape (thanks blurry vision!), and a bunch of wasted exp thanks to a dumb decision? The answer was no so I just went to Zot and ascended instead. First time in ages I've failed at extended but its better than getting killed I guess. That's how you end up as a TSO worshipper with a necromancy title!  EDIT 2: I just noticed I don't have the golden rune despite clearing Tomb so no idea what happened there. Never forgotten to pick up the bloody rune before. Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at 08:39 on Dec 24, 2016 |
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Dec 24, 2016 07:04
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I can easily understand how someone could be so mentally stunned by going through tomb that you could forgot to pick up the rune.
Carcer fucked around with this message at 14:26 on Dec 24, 2016 |
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Dec 24, 2016 14:14
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So how about that singularity spell?
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Dec 24, 2016 14:31
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For my next run I am going to be a Human, Zin worshipper, and focus primarily on summons and hexes. My motivation is that everyone sucks but me and everyone should fight each other while I recite bible verses at them.
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Dec 24, 2016 14:51
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That sounds miserable.
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Dec 24, 2016 14:52
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Discord will make my summons go crazy too right? That is the end goal.
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Dec 24, 2016 14:55
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E Equals MC Hammer posted:Discord will make my summons go crazy too right? That is the end goal. I don't know if Discord counts as ally harm, but if it does Zin will get pissy.
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Dec 24, 2016 15:16
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The only way I can gets casters off the ground is by starting as a fighter. Game so much harder with no AC.
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Dec 24, 2016 15:22
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euphronius posted:The only way I can gets casters off the ground is by starting as a fighter. Stealth is consistently on-par with heavy armor pre-lair. Losing those starting two pips means giving up the ability to freely walk away from things you don't want to fight.
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Dec 24, 2016 16:26
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Ah the minus 7 cloak of defence +regen
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Dec 24, 2016 16:38
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Microcline posted:Stealth is consistently on-par with heavy armor pre-lair. Losing those starting two pips means giving up the ability to freely walk away from things you don't want to fight. That's just getting yourself behind on the XP curve, which is even deadlier for casters.
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Dec 24, 2016 17:22
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Just had a great run I hosed up by going into the ossuary with low health trying to beat the timeout and getting double teamed by mummies in the small, trap heavy ossuary layout. I could have taken the portal out but I decided to blow most of my consumables trying to kill the mummies. I got them in the end but had no more healing or teleports for the later dungeon which eventually killed me. It was worth it for that mummy fight though, white knuckle all the way through
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Dec 24, 2016 17:30
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Just lost a pretty awesome Cheibriados ghoul in hell thanks to underestimating Ereshkigal. https://crawl.jorgrun.rocks/morgue/LordSloth/morgue-LordSloth-20161224-211839.txt I haven't had many undead in hell, so I didn't think of the fact that she had silence... and a poo poo ton of tzitzimitl with nothing better to do than cast Dispel Undead. Went down crazily fast. Another scary moment in Dis: An iron giant comes into view. It is wielding a dire flail of holy wrath. The iron giant hits you with a dire flail of holy wrath!!! You convulse!!! pre:Health: -13/260 AC: 48 Str: 39 XL: 27
Magic: 38/38 EV: 22 Int: 30 God: Cheibriados [******]
Gold: 4296 SH: 8 Dex: 30 Spells: 12 memorised, 2 levels left
rFire + . . SeeInvis + - Unarmed
rCold + + . Gourm . T - +8 gold dragon scales
rNeg + + + Faith . (no shield)
rPois ∞ Spirit . z - +2 helmet {Int+3}
rElec . Reflect + f - +2 cloak {MR+}
rCorr + Harm . k - +3 pair of gauntlets of War {Slay+5}
MR +++.. t - +0 pair of boots of Elyvilon's Pride {rCorr Int+2}
Stlth +......... o - brooch of Shielding {Reflect SH+8}
G - ring of see invisible
X - ring of Zaph {AC+3 Slay+5}
b - the +1 arbalest "Seggoirgh" {elec, rF+ rC+}
(You found it on level 5 of the Pits of Slime)
c - the +6 arbalest "Damnation" {damnation}
(You found it in a treasure trove)
e - the +4 staff of Dispater
(You took it off Dispater on level 7 of the Iron City of Dis)
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Dec 24, 2016 22:46
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Didn't Crawl used to have seasonal xmas tiles? Or was that only a setting on web tiles
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Dec 25, 2016 07:00
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I think it was just Cocytus & Anteus.
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Dec 25, 2016 07:06
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It was a patch that some devs would manually apply around christmastime, and then manually revert a few weeks later, when they remembered to. No one got around to it this year... sad!
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Dec 25, 2016 07:10
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PleasingFungus posted:It was a patch that some devs would manually apply around christmastime, and then manually revert a few weeks later, when they remembered to. No one got around to it this year... sad! There's still time for you to push a christmas patch! Be an agent of the christmas spirit Also, as a special christmas present, re-insert High Elves and rename them "Santa's Elves"
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Dec 25, 2016 07:24
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The elemental staff is quite good.
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Dec 25, 2016 16:34
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Speleothing posted:That's just getting yourself behind on the XP curve, which is even deadlier for casters. Nope! The food clock is usually so lax (piety might be the more important timer), you can go back and clear it later, as I usually do with level annotations. In particular I often take stealth to three skill before turning it off about half the time. Even if you kill everything, getting to choose to attack from a more advantageous range is nice, either by luring with shouting, taking another approach, or just clearing trash from adjacent rooms first. Of course I often also just ignore stealth depending on what kind of caster I'm playing... But to the poster who mentioned fighter starts and AC- try a Draconian, you might be pleased. For clarity's sake, I almost never play wizard, one of the most highly recommend starts and they definitely have more skills to train and a very noisy fart cloud. LordSloth fucked around with this message at 06:21 on Dec 26, 2016 |
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Dec 26, 2016 06:18
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I'm gonna say wizards are bad. Pick them only if you want to make a mostly melee hybrid that uses mephetic cloud. They're lousy for blaster starts and mediocre for hybrid starts. The only thing wizard has for it is four different okay support spells (that all use different schools) from other starts all bundled together, so if you really can't decide on any focus until after you've found your first altar wizard is for you. Imo for people new to casting Cj and FE are better blaster starts and Ne & IE are better hybrid starts.
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Dec 26, 2016 07:22
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Wizards are actually too fun and deserve death in 0.20
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Dec 26, 2016 08:12
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Wizards are inspired by Lord of the Rings and overlap with Tengu. Thus they must be cut.
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Dec 26, 2016 08:15
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brainwrinkle posted:Wizards are inspired by Lord of the Rings and overlap with Tengu. Thus they must be cut.
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Dec 26, 2016 15:48
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Wizards are one of the best starts if your species doesn't have negative apts in the schools they dabble in. The book of minor magic contains some of the most useful spells for the early game. Between meph cloud and conjure flame you will be able to handle pretty much anything.
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Dec 26, 2016 17:31
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Shadow creatures + zin + pan scumming = 2ez Shadow creatures just dumps daevas on you it is fantastic.
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Dec 26, 2016 17:34
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dpeg posted:This is impeccable logic. I'll do what I can. Could you also do something about those terrible tolkienesque named artifact weapons? Actually, how about axing the entire game since its about a quest that centers around a powerful, nigh indestructible arcane item created by an unimaginably powerful wizard? edit: Back when the orb was actually an item, could it be destroyed by dropping it in lava? Carcer fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Dec 26, 2016 |
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Dec 26, 2016 18:05
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