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Tbh I don't see how a leftist government could survive today without some type of secret state police, because it is still true that the first priority of the liberal/right wing forces will be oust to you from power in the most humilliating manner possible (or better yet, keep you in government following their own destructive lovely politics: eg Syriza). Like, how are you gonna do anything without replacing every every position you can with your own apparatchiks and using every method you can to spy on your opposition, because you can be certain that they will be doing the same to your government. I'm not here taking the position that Stalin (even Lenin) 'did nothing wrong' or whatever but while it is true that 20th century Marxist politics (even economics, lets be real) were very bad and simply failed to say the least I cant but see that liberal politics offer nothing but complete submission to the major economic global forces. You definitly need to form a coalition that breaks global capital supreme lordship over state governments and you'll have to use every method available to you all the while walking the tight rope of not feeling justified in 20th style Iron curtain repression but also not falling into liberal limpwristed ivorytower high-mindedness, so in all in all: lol we're all hosed
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Dec 26, 2016 16:16
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zen death robot posted:You're doing exactly that by editing this post to say this though. If your goal is to convince people that Marxism is alright then the number one goal is to show how it can thrive under a very open global society like we have today where outside ideas can't really be easily filtered out from your population. You need to explain that there's no reason for bullshit like the STASI to exist to encourage neighbors to report each other to the police state and poo poo like that. We don't really need a STASI any more because people are dumb enough to report themselves on the internet.
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Dec 26, 2016 16:23
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zen death robot posted:I'm gonna wait like 10 minutes for you to edit your post to make more sense ??? The FBI is baiting people into participating in fake bomb plots over Facebook, so I dunno what about it doesn't make any sense. Really the bigger problem here is whether or not any powerful state can survive without mass surveillance and/or repression. There's an institutional paranoia baked in, and it's only become more pronounced with the advent of non-state terrorism.
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Dec 26, 2016 16:32
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zen death robot posted:I'm gonna wait like 10 minutes for you to edit your post to make more sense "Why bother with a STASI when reactionary dumbasses will get Twitter handles like "topkek1488" and openly tweet about their genocidal fantasies without any intervention from the state needed?"
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Dec 26, 2016 16:34
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"My name is Arthur LaFontaine Beauregard, and if the gubbamint wants to take away MY GUNS and force me to white genocide with some negress they can find me at..."
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Dec 26, 2016 16:36
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zen death robot posted:Yet I can tell anyone in government to go gently caress themselves, hell to their face if I have the chance, and not get disappeared. This "triumph" of liberalism is superficial. In a liberal democracy power lies outside of the state. E: meh nvm that's a bit too tankie for me. it's not entirely superficial. It just doesn't speak to the level of power that the average person wields. The Kingfish fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Dec 26, 2016 |
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Dec 26, 2016 16:57
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The Kingfish posted:This "triumph" of liberalism is entirely superficial. In a liberal democracy power lies outside of the state. So are you saying people get disappeared in the West for telling businessmen to go gently caress themselves?
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Dec 26, 2016 17:00
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The Kingfish posted:This "triumph" of liberalism is superficial. In a liberal democracy power lies outside of the state. They are at the same time superficial in they way they are used to justify the status quo but also important bcause on the other hand its something that revolutionaries many times see as 'superficial' formal freedoms and trade them cheaply in the fight for 'true' freedom which is also wrong
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Dec 26, 2016 17:11
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Enjoy posted:So are you saying people get disappeared in the West for telling businessmen to go gently caress themselves? DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:President Trump is about to inherit a state security apparatus that lets him surveil, black bag, or murder anyone in the world without even a fig leaf of due process or oversight, bro. 
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Dec 26, 2016 17:16
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Enjoy posted:So are you saying people get disappeared in the West for telling businessmen to go gently caress themselves? You get marginalized if you have any public voice and will generally lose your means of subsistence.
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Dec 26, 2016 17:27
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The Kingfish posted:This "triumph" of liberalism is superficial. In a liberal democracy power lies outside of the state. Basically freedom of speech is a triviality when people are radically alienated from each other, and don't have the means to organize for a revolutionary change. If revolutionary socialists or communists ever seriously threatened the capitalist order, we'd see anti-sedition acts past real fuckin quick. Hell, we may not even have to wait for a powerful Left now that Trump & the Republican party are coming to power. American liberal democracy is so depraved, they can't even accept social democrats in the Democratic party.
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Dec 26, 2016 17:38
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There's no freedom of speech in the workplace, where your boss can effectively execute you by cutting you off from the funds you need to live, and employers are increasingly trying to monitor and control employees and their speech while they aren't on the clock. Bye
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Dec 26, 2016 17:43
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let me guess, the solution is maxism?
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Dec 26, 2016 18:08
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Baloogan posted:let me guess, the solution is maxism? Sick and tired of the Maxists in this forum always trolling for their next "global maximum."
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Dec 26, 2016 18:09
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there are bigger problems in this world than a KFC worker getting fired after posting a vid of him making GBS threads in the sauce to facebook
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Dec 26, 2016 18:10
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Baloogan posted:there are bigger problems in this world than a KFC worker getting fired after posting a vid of him making GBS threads in the sauce to facebook ...
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Dec 26, 2016 18:13
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With regard to free speech, are all the inauguration protests still barred from any recognizable DC areas?
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Dec 26, 2016 18:15
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Baloogan posted:there are bigger problems in this world than a KFC worker getting fired after posting a vid of him making GBS threads in the sauce to facebook there are not
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Dec 26, 2016 18:21
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Baloogan posted:there are bigger problems in this world than a KFC worker getting fired after posting a vid of him making GBS threads in the sauce to facebook Wow these are some HOT TAKES my man. I bet this is the only time anyone has ever lost their means of sustenance because of their boss. No way that a job creator could ever be prejudiced, no goddamn way.
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Dec 26, 2016 18:26
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say what you will about the NYPD choking Eric Garner to death as he stammered "I can't breathe" and the subsequent police harsssment and imprisonmrnt of the cameraman who caught it on tape. but we enjoy a free society in this country!
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Dec 26, 2016 18:28
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Breadallelogram posted:there are not Eating the sauce.
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Dec 26, 2016 18:32
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DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:say what you will about the NYPD choking Eric Garner to death as he stammered "I can't breathe" and the subsequent police harsssment and imprisonmrnt of the cameraman who caught it on tape. but we enjoy a free society in this country! Then we are agreed, as far as human rights and the dignity of the individual go, both America and Marxism-Leninism are dismal failures. Let's do better.
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Dec 26, 2016 19:17
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Enjoy posted:Then we are agreed, as far as human rights and the dignity of the individual go, both America and Marxism-Leninism are dismal failures. Let's do better. didn't know M-L was a whole country that existed at some point
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Dec 26, 2016 19:22
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Fiction posted:didn't know M-L was a whole country that existed at some point This is what the left needs, pathetic nitpicking to win internet arguments. Did you stroke your neckbeard after that reply?
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Dec 26, 2016 19:32
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Enjoy posted:This is what the left needs, pathetic nitpicking to win internet arguments. Yeah you outta knock it off buster
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Dec 26, 2016 19:34
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Enjoy posted:This is what the left needs, pathetic nitpicking to win internet arguments. Did you stroke your neckbeard after that reply? i dunno, r u gona go back to chewing boot after youre done posting
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Dec 26, 2016 19:47
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Dec 26, 2016 20:00
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I get the point, but righteous aggression could mean both the french revolution or burning cars in paris/looting shops in london. Aggression in itself is not emancipatory by default.
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Dec 26, 2016 20:05
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LAMO Like marxists could get up enough agression to jerk off let alone do anything irl
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Dec 26, 2016 20:10
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aggro tankie lfg, /w me
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Dec 26, 2016 20:19
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Apparently some seem to be
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Dec 26, 2016 20:39
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let me guess, the solution is maxism?
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Dec 26, 2016 20:41
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Yes 
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Dec 26, 2016 20:44
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I see the laws made in Washington, D.C. I think of the ones I consider my favorites Some civil servants are just like my loved ones They work so hard and they try to be strong Don't you worry 'bout me I wouldn't worry about me Don't you worry 'bout me Don't you worry 'bout meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
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Dec 26, 2016 20:48
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zen death robot posted:No one argued this? I wasn't trying to pwn anyone by posting that, if that's what you're asking.
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Dec 26, 2016 20:49
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Baloogan posted:I see the laws made in Washington, D.C. Do you think that fairly unrestricted capitalism and more liberalism is the answer?
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Dec 26, 2016 20:50
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Don't you worry 'bout meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee e eeeeeeeeeee e e e e e e eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee e e e e e eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
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Dec 26, 2016 20:54
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Anyone have any experience building a local chapter of an organization? According to the people I was speaking to, there might only be one other guy in this state and he might not even be on the same island as me. Thanks everyone.
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Dec 26, 2016 21:09
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Baloogan posted:LAMO Like marxists could get up enough agression to jerk off let alone do anything irl https://twitter.com/PissPigGranddad/status/813355860927901696
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Dec 26, 2016 21:32
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gotta describe pictures for me or or or or to be a good marcists you need a hiugh speed internet connection thus unmarxing all the poor of the world so describe pictures you cucking communist cuckmunist
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Dec 26, 2016 21:38
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