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I know that the extraordinary form is usually done in Latin. Is it ever done in vernacular
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Dec 25, 2016 19:05
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System Metternich posted:e: and just as I write this I get the news that they successfully defused it, thank God Good to hear. Props to everyone involved in resolving this quickly, safely, and with care for the evacuated people.
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Dec 25, 2016 19:06
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Smoking Crow posted:I know that the extraordinary form is usually done in Latin. Is it ever done in vernacular I found this commentary over at NLM: quote:In an article from 1944's Liturgical Week, entitled "The Language of the Roman Liturgy", Dom Rembert Sorg, OSB outlines five instances in the orient where the Missal was translated into the vernacular.1. In 1624, Urban VIII allowed the Carmelites to translate the Missal into Arabic for new Catholic Converts in Persia.2. In 1627, the same privilege was granted to those Catholic in Armenia.In both cases, the injunction was to translate the missal literally (literaliter)3. 1886, Leo XIII, the Holy See under a concordat with Montenegro allowed parts of the Missal to be translated into Church Slavonic.4. Also, the Glagolithic Slavs of Dalmatia and Croatia were allowed to offer Mass in old Church Slavonic.5. In 1615, Paul V allowed by deecree that the Roman Rite might be translated into Madarin, or literary, Chinese.Also, the Catholic Herald (11 Aug 44) notes a decision of the SCR too tolerate the "German High Mass"
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Dec 25, 2016 19:12
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Don't tell the rad trads that Mass wasn't immediately celebrated in Latin from the moment of the death of Christ. This kills the rad trad. Actually it's kinda funny because there was a frighteningly long period in church history where it was thought that the Tridentine Mass was penned directly by St. Peter. Nobody really thought too hard about how the illiterate Aramaic-speaking fisherman managed to pull that off, I guess.
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Dec 25, 2016 19:26
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Merry Christmas, everybody! I cut down on Internet use and held back on posting during the Nativity Fast, but now I'm back.
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Dec 25, 2016 19:28
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the anglican use of the roman rite is basically the extraordinary form translated into book-of-common-prayer english. i really really wish they'd give license for it to be adopted by other catholic parishes, because i think mass in a heightened register of the vernacular is something a lot of people both traditionalist and more modern could get behind
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Dec 25, 2016 20:07
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I like the eastern rite mass in our local language, it's trippy
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Dec 25, 2016 20:13
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Bel_Canto posted:the anglican use of the roman rite is basically the extraordinary form translated into book-of-common-prayer english. i really really wish they'd give license for it to be adopted by other catholic parishes, because i think mass in a heightened register of the vernacular is something a lot of people both traditionalist and more modern could get behind Yeah, I think tridentine in vernacular is a good compromise
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Dec 25, 2016 20:22
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this is where i'd normally say "i like post conciliar liturgy" but lmao i haven't been to mass since they changed up the translation and i'm still salty about how difficult a lot of the words are to say "consubstantial with the father" get out one in being is a lot easier to pray
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Dec 25, 2016 20:58
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poo poo, translation my rear end. "Consubstantial" is barely English.
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Dec 25, 2016 21:01
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hailthefish posted:poo poo, translation my rear end. "Consubstantial" is barely English. English is barely English, stealing and making up words are proud traditions.
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Dec 25, 2016 21:06
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pidan posted:I like the eastern rite mass in our local language, it's trippy We sort of have this situation in the US with the Antiochian Eastern Orthodox. They have trouble getting enough converts so they often offer the Divine Liturgy in English. Them and the Anglican Ordinariate are about as close as you're getting to the EF in vernacular.
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Dec 25, 2016 21:07
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Maronites are pretty close to that as well (except for the Aramaic Eucharistic Prayer), but good luck finding any substantial number of Maronites outside of Detroit or New York.
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Dec 25, 2016 22:17
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The Phlegmatist posted:Don't tell the rad trads that Mass wasn't immediately celebrated in Latin from the moment of the death of Christ. This kills the rad trad.
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Dec 25, 2016 22:36
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HEY GAL posted:what a vulgar language boooooooo 
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Dec 25, 2016 22:45
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hailthefish posted:poo poo, translation my rear end. "Consubstantial" is barely English. Well, "consubstantialis" was barely Latin, too! Greek had a noun for "be-ing", the process of the verb "to be" (like "capturing" from "to capture"), but Latin didn't, so when the Nicene Creed became Latin, "homoousios", "of the same be-ing", got rendered together-substance. "One in being" has to be explained too, so why not go for an unambiguous term? I mean I guess they could do something horrible like "Begotten, not made, together with the Father he is being. Through him all things were made," but that doesn't really sound better than "consubstantial", does it?
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Dec 25, 2016 22:51
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zonohedron posted:Well, "consubstantialis" was barely Latin, too! Greek had a noun for "be-ing", the process of the verb "to be" (like "capturing" from "to capture"), but Latin didn't, so when the Nicene Creed became Latin, "homoousios", "of the same be-ing", got rendered together-substance. "One in being" has to be explained too, so why not go for an unambiguous term? I mean I guess they could do something horrible like "Begotten, not made, together with the Father he is being. Through him all things were made," but that doesn't really sound better than "consubstantial", does it? why not just keep the old one that prays good tho
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Dec 25, 2016 23:05
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i have no idea how to reconcile my "postconciliar liturgy is good and my friend" thoughts with "i mean you gotta chant in japanese, you just gotta" instinct, btw
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Dec 25, 2016 23:09
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Bel_Canto posted:fascism is the sheerest idolatry indeed
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Dec 26, 2016 00:06
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HEY GAL posted:http://theslot.jezebel.com/did-the-republican-national-committee-liken-trump-to-je-1790486831 
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Dec 26, 2016 00:16
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HEY GAL posted:http://theslot.jezebel.com/did-the-republican-national-committee-liken-trump-to-je-1790486831 There's a very weird strain of thought floating around in evangelical circles that likens Trump to King Cyrus, because he's not a Christian but maybe God can use him anyway. Sure, fine. But then you realize there's a very short list of Biblical figures referred to as messiah, Cyrus being one of them, and it gets creepy real quick. e: Cyrus builds a wall in Islamic tradition but I somehow doubt these people even know about this. The Phlegmatist fucked around with this message at 02:03 on Dec 26, 2016 |
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Dec 26, 2016 01:04
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http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/12/21/magazine/the-lives-they-lived-jack-chick.html?rref=collection%2Fsectioncollection%2Fmagazine HAW HAW HAW!
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Dec 26, 2016 01:37
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HopperUK posted:My church is weird-lookin. this building is totally fine. i don't know if i've seen one exactly like this but i have been in a lot of more modern-architecture church buildings that are big and brick and like square or triangular or some other "weird" shape but they are actually really nice, just a bit different-looking i went to christmas eve service with some family and we went to an old town where we used to live. it's a parish that had split into two many decades ago and they were separate when we lived there, but in the past 10-15 years everybody who was mad about it started dying off, so they decided to merge back together  . then they sold the building on the bigger property to some guy who moved it and turned it into a house (???), and they built a new building that is all disability-accessible. they did keep some things from the old one, like the altar and the pews, but i'm not sure what happened to the giant painting of Norwegian Jesus that used to tower over the altar. (the painting was a "copy" of Christ in Gethsemane)sermon was nice. the pastor talked about the time at his first church call when he tried to help local parishioners herd cows, and then he felt bad after he saw that when the itinerant farmhands learned he was a pastor, they all felt like they had to stop cursing and telling dirty jokes, so the rest of the day was a real drag without lester and curly BS'ing all the time. country churches 
Lutha Mahtin fucked around with this message at 03:21 on Dec 26, 2016 |
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Dec 26, 2016 03:18
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I spent part of Christmas eve in this building: Which, it seems to me, is about as New Englandy as it gets. Of course, it's unitarian universalist, so whether you want to call it a church or not is up to you.
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Dec 26, 2016 03:37
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my church is gross and ugly and it's the diocesan cathedral for whatever reason, somebody go back in time and kill whoever invented brutalism it's what happens during Mass that's important though  FLORIDA SQUAD FORM UP. MITERS ON. LET'S ROLL.
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Dec 26, 2016 03:57
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the cathedral in detroit looks like someone gutted a beautiful german gothic cathedral and replaced the sanctuary with the set of star trek
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Dec 26, 2016 05:57
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This is the main catholic church in Novi Sad (everyone calls it "the cathedral" because of how it looks even though it's not actually the seat of a bishop)
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Dec 26, 2016 06:28
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my dad posted:This is the main catholic church in Novi Sad (everyone calls it "the cathedral" because of how it looks even though it's not actually the seat of a bishop) That tower is pretty sweet.
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Dec 26, 2016 16:21
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my dad posted:This is the main catholic church in Novi Sad (everyone calls it "the cathedral" because of how it looks even though it's not actually the seat of a bishop) That sweet sweet spire roof omg
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Dec 26, 2016 16:38
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another day, another heresy https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...id=pm_local_pop
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Dec 26, 2016 18:26
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HEY GAL posted:another day, another heresy I'm more interested in the 2-in-10 religiously unaffiliated who believe in the Virgin Birth but not all that other stuff.
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Dec 26, 2016 18:30
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:I'm more interested in the 2-in-10 religiously unaffiliated who believe in the Virgin Birth but not all that other stuff.
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Dec 26, 2016 18:33
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:I'm more interested in the 2-in-10 religiously unaffiliated who believe in the Virgin Birth but not all that other stuff. it might be "yeah if there was a god and there was a jesus it'd be a virgin birth but i'm not all that sure on the other stuff"
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Dec 26, 2016 18:53
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IM RETARDED IDIOT 'DARE' FROM TRIBALWARS
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Dec 26, 2016 20:23
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:I'm more interested in the 2-in-10 religiously unaffiliated who believe in the Virgin Birth but not all that other stuff. What I've learned from reading about surveys is that people will say all kinds of stuff depending on how you ask the question. That's also why I think that anthropology-style freeform interviews are the only good way to find out people's opinions about something. The virgin birth / immaculate conception narrative has always creeped me out and has kept me perpetually on the verge of running off towards some earth mother religion. I tried to spell out why it's so creepy but I feel gross even writing about it. I'm also not particularly fascinated by babies, so Christmas doesn't really do anything for me, I'm just happy that the days will be longer again. ^^^ what's up with those weird posts we've been getting lately
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Dec 26, 2016 20:32
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Idk but I really want to believe that dad gay. so what looks like that
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Dec 26, 2016 20:37
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poo poo, I wanna be a "paid poster" too Also they got slapped with three different permabans by three different administrators within two minutes, wow 
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Dec 26, 2016 20:50
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System Metternich posted:poo poo, I wanna be a "paid poster" too They must be on to something 
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Dec 26, 2016 20:53
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HEY GAL posted:another day, another heresy i don't know anything about this megachurch pastor, but i do know that this article is garbage. the second paragraph links to the sermon where your alleged heresy comes from, but then the article author spends almost the entire rest of the article just passing along quotes from other people, quotes that either (a) don't address the pastor's statement in context, or (b) which the author has stripped of any such context. the link to the sermon goes to the church's website where they have video recordings of it, and it appears to be a series of sermons given over three weeks, with each part in the series being over half an hour in length. "wow lutha", a strawman i have created for this post might say, "so you're saying a megachurch sermon series that is over 90 minutes long might include some fallacious or heretical statements that are designed to shock or wake up the audience?" to which i would reply "you already said it was a 90-minute megachurch sermon series, stop repeating yourself". protestants have developed styles of sermonizing that are imo distinct and wonderful art forms, and i have heard many sermons where even if i think the pastor is nuts, i can respect their rhetorical and oratorical skills also the act of dipping the bread into the wine is called intinction, and as a communicant i have created a drippy hunk of Jesus-flesh so many times. there are also many protestant churches where the wine is given out in little thimble-sized plastic cups, and as you walk back to the aisles between the pews there is a little basket lined with plastic where you deposit your used cup; the plastic lining in the basket is there to protect the basket from all the dregs of wine that leak out as people toss their cups in 
Lutha Mahtin fucked around with this message at 21:31 on Dec 26, 2016 |
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Dec 26, 2016 21:21
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Yeah, I meant to ask but forgot: what is bad in intinction? Why couldn't you mix the bread and wine before your mouth, theologically? It's not a very rare practice. Tossing out used disposable cups is nothing special either, since the belief in real presence that us Lutherans have means that while Jesus is truly and secretly present in the bread and wine during the communion, they don't actually change so after the communion is received, it's (again) just bread and wine. Yeah, you handle it with reverence and respect but sure, you can reuse them if there are lot of leftovers and using the aforementioned disposable cups isn't any way more problematic than washing the fancy goblets.
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Dec 27, 2016 00:36
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