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Goffer posted:The problems people had with Prometheus didn't include a lack of xenomorphs. The inclusion of a crappy cgi xenomorph in it actually weakened it, although I believe an SMG analysis mentioned it was included to rile up the fanboys and was a metacommentary on expectations and corporate marketing and how it ties in to people getting their just desserts and therefore it was great. The chestburster at the end of Prometheus wasn't CGI at all. Watch the special features, kiddo.
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Dec 26, 2016 06:24
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I really don't like the idea of proto-Xenomorphs or having them be (accidentally?) engineered by humans. I want them to be ravenous hive-mind cockroach-like things that happen to latch on and infect any species unlucky enough to stumble onto one of their former conquered worlds and spread as an invasive species like rabbits did across Australia. And it's just that humans think they can capture and use them as a weapon without too much going wrong, which to be honest is a bit cliche at this point. I mean, scientists on an exploratory mission discovering a dangerous alien and - whoops - turns out the corporate/military plant aboard their ship wants to capture it alive and control it and that was their secret mission all along. It's been a while since I've seen/read anything Alien-related, and I enjoyed Prometheus while I watched it but the more I thought about it the more I disliked it.
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Dec 26, 2016 06:43
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Everyone wants lore and backstory until it turns out the lore and backstory is loving stupid.
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Dec 26, 2016 06:48
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It would have been nice if rather than trying to explain the space jockey in Prometheus, they instead left all of those questions unanswered and introduced something equally mysterious that expanded on the universe and introduced even more cosmic horror elements.
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Dec 26, 2016 07:16
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The alien series is now about Weyland Yutani's inability to reclaim their property. Much like James Cameron, David took the green goo and made it better.
Tenzarin fucked around with this message at 08:31 on Dec 26, 2016 |
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Dec 26, 2016 08:28
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Baronjutter posted:Everyone wants lore and backstory until it turns out the lore and backstory is loving stupid. Actually I think you will find that there are a lot of nerds who will devour any and all lore regardless of how lovely it is
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Dec 26, 2016 12:03
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Baronjutter posted:Everyone wants lore and backstory until it turns out the lore and backstory is loving stupid. And now here we are 4 years later, doomed to repeat the same mistakes I guess. Like, lore and backstory has a time and a place where it can be kinda useful and interesting. As a Star Wars fan, I got a kick out of those spin off anthology books that were about all the oddball aliens in the Mos Eisley cantina or Jabba's palace and how they had their own little agendas and subplots that were totally unrelated to the main events of the movies. But I never really saw a need for stuff like that with the Alien franchise. I'm one of those nerds who buys up every comic and novel and whatever, but it's not because of an insatiable need to know every piece of minutiae - I do it for the same reason I like all of the movies, I like seeing different creators tackle the Alien and seeing what kind of story they tell and whether they introduce interesting characters. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't, but I'd rather have creators try something new and gently caress up than never try at all. Since it looks like Covenant is going to tackle the origin of the Alien, I wonder if it'll even bother trying to reconcile it with the Derelict in 'Alien' being thousands of years old.
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Dec 26, 2016 15:14
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Xenomrph posted:
I hope not. I can't imagine a way that it could possibly do so without being extremely contrived and shoehorned. Better to not let the demands of continuity get in the way of more creative elements at this point. Prometheus already brings up so many questions and plot holes wrt Alien that it's better to just set this series apart from the rest. That said, the trailer looks OK. Everything seems a little disjointed, but at least it looks cool on an immediate visual level.
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Dec 26, 2016 15:29
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Xenomrph posted:The host trait idea has been around since the first movie not really, you just assume that xenomorphs always look like they do in that movie (and Aliens).
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Dec 26, 2016 16:28
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Xenomrph posted:Since it looks like Covenant is going to tackle the origin of the Alien, I wonder if it'll even bother trying to reconcile it with the Derelict in 'Alien' being thousands of years old. Well obviously the derelict is thousands of years old, but it only crash landed on LV-426 two days before the Nostromo arrived; as will be revealed in this or a future film. Duh. BTW does anyone know if Mr. Scott is hiring???
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Dec 26, 2016 16:29
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Groovelord Neato posted:not really, you just assume that xenomorphs always look like they do in that movie (and Aliens). James Cameron said pretty much the same thing when asked about it when 'Aliens' came out (and he also used Jones as an example). So yeah the whole host trait idea was part of the Alien concept from the start, even if the first two movies didn't make it explicit.
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Dec 26, 2016 16:42
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that's information outside of the films. within the films, there's no evidence that the alien would look any different if it infected something else. the predalien is still stupid within that concept as Alien to the third power doesn't have a dog head - it's just smaller and slimmer than the ones we've seen before but still looks the same.
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Dec 26, 2016 17:01
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Groovelord Neato posted:that's information outside of the films. within the films, there's no evidence that the alien would look any different if it infected something else. ...So? They know next to nothing about the aliens in the first film.
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Dec 26, 2016 17:03
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Isn't there a massive xeno drone somewhere that burst out of the space jockey?
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Dec 26, 2016 17:22
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Doesn't the alien look a bit different from film to film? Realistically of course that's because each director/FX folks want to put their stamp on it but in the movies even when it comes out of humans the adult form differs slightly.
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Dec 26, 2016 17:36
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brocked posted:Isn't there a massive xeno drone somewhere that burst out of the space jockey? The comics would have you believe something like this emerged: 
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Dec 26, 2016 17:40
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Neo Rasa posted:Doesn't the alien look a bit different from film to film? Realistically of course that's because each director/FX folks want to put their stamp on it but in the movies even when it comes out of humans the adult form differs slightly. Yeah the creatures in Aliens are much bulkier than the original Alien and their heads are opaque like a military helmet or hard hat. The original Alien had a translucent dome with a human skull beneath to mimic the crew's spacesuits but it wasn't really visible in the film.
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Dec 26, 2016 18:07
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Yeah Xenomrph can you offer some insight? IIRC in the EU they explain the differences by saying that they're different castes of the same species like the different forms we see in a single ant colony with the bulkier ones in Aliens being the equivalent of soldier ants and stuff. But in the movies I just figured no two are 100% identical the same way no two people or whatever other animal are 100% identical.
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Dec 26, 2016 18:32
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I remember a mock up for a game having different kinds of alien that they passed off as the game itself. There was a big armoured tank alien and another. They promised so much. Sorry, they lied.
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Dec 26, 2016 18:36
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I feel like this movie is about to misuse Danny McBride, which is a criminal offense. And that it will be a sprawling disjointed mess, much like Scott's other recent work (Exodus  )
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Dec 26, 2016 18:50
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Steve2911 posted:...So? They know next to nothing about the aliens in the first film. i was responding to someone please follow the conversation before responding.
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Dec 26, 2016 19:01
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brocked posted:Isn't there a massive xeno drone somewhere that burst out of the space jockey? Party Boat posted:Yeah the creatures in Aliens are much bulkier than the original Alien and their heads are opaque like a military helmet or hard hat. The original Alien had a translucent dome with a human skull beneath to mimic the crew's spacesuits but it wasn't really visible in the film.         Neo Rasa posted:Yeah Xenomrph can you offer some insight? IIRC in the EU they explain the differences by saying that they're different castes of the same species like the different forms we see in a single ant colony with the bulkier ones in Aliens being the equivalent of soldier ants and stuff. But in the movies I just figured no two are 100% identical the same way no two people or whatever other animal are 100% identical. The other popular theory was that there were different castes that had different appearances and behaviors (I followed this theory for a long time), but that one has problems too. I'm of the opinion nowadays that while there might sorta be castes, ultimately adult Aliens don't have a set "shape" and can differ slightly in appearance for any number of unknown reasons that we just don't understand. I think it makes them more, well, "alien", and it's also an easy handwave for minor design variations across movies, comics, video games, whatever.
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Dec 26, 2016 19:51
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Xenomrph posted:Since it looks like Covenant is going to tackle the origin of the Alien, I wonder if it'll even bother trying to reconcile it with the Derelict in 'Alien' being thousands of years old. I think that Ridley Scott is supposed to be making another two or three Alien movies after Covenant and that one of the stated goals is to lead directly into the original Alien at the end of this arc of movies. I'm not 100% sure and don't have any links to hand immediately, but I'm fairly sure I've seen that stated in multiple places/interviews at this point. It's going to be interesting to see where the eggs in Covenant come from. Probably chicken eggs from the ship's canteen being mutated by the black
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Dec 26, 2016 19:54
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So, what if a Facehugger attached themselves to someone mentally handicapped? Would that affect the Xenomorph that bursts out? Since they're supposed to take characteristics from their host, would there be a handicapped Xenomorph? Or is it more physical characteristics?
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Dec 26, 2016 20:34
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One thing to keep in mind with the Deacon (the thing at the end of Prometheus) is that it's the equivalent of a fresh chestburster, which in Alien is about the size of a rat. It might look more impressive all grown up.
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Dec 26, 2016 20:40
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I like the Giger mock ups of the Alien where its half technological and half organic - its got pistons and metal pipes and different poo poo coming out of it in ways that are seemingly impossible. The further from the first film the more the Alien becomes more and more an animal we can understand and less this strange otherworldy cybernetic hybrid thing.
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Dec 26, 2016 20:50
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Leavemywife posted:So, what if a Facehugger attached themselves to someone mentally handicapped? Would that affect the Xenomorph that bursts out? Since they're supposed to take characteristics from their host, would there be a handicapped Xenomorph? Or is it more physical characteristics? Just physical.
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Dec 26, 2016 20:55
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I wonder if someone farting into a cloud of black goo spores before a member of the crew inhales them would affect the biological makeup of the alien that bursts out? Would it be an rear end burster? We already have chest/back/throat bursters. Maybe that's what Franco's small role is for? Or maybe they'll make another space weed joke.
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Dec 26, 2016 21:34
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Going by off all the other Franco films I have seen in the last few years they'll have to reference his apparently awesome cock so I can only suppose it'll be a Urethraburster.
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Dec 26, 2016 21:50
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Leavemywife posted:So, what if a Facehugger attached themselves to someone mentally handicapped? Would that affect the Xenomorph that bursts out? Since they're supposed to take characteristics from their host, would there be a handicapped Xenomorph? Or is it more physical characteristics? Individuality among rank-and-file Aliens isn't exactly something that comes up often - the highest-profile example in the movies is the "Grid Alien" from the first AvP movie, who kills two Predators back to back and then goes on to do not much else except for dodge some Predator plasma blasts while his buddies get wasted. In the script and novelization he's depicted as physically larger and more cunning and capable than his peers, and he was originally meant to survive the Scar Predator's wrist-nuke demolition of the underground temple and get into a final throwdown with Scar on the surface before Scar fights the Alien Queen. There are production stills showing Grid on the surface, and the Grid Alien prop head still in circulation is broken apart as if he got his rear end kicked. In the EU, you play as individual Aliens in the Alien campaigns of the three most recent AvP FPS games, but only AvP2 and AvP2010 really play up the idea that your Alien is special and unique over the course of the plot. The player Alien in AvP for Jaguar is specifically depicted as being disposable - each time the player dies, he respawns as a new Alien elsewhere in the level. Beyond that, the comics and novels depict "individual" Aliens like maybe 3 or 4 times off the top of my head, and those tend to just be minor cosmetic things like scars or slight color changes.
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Dec 26, 2016 21:57
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I don't think leave my wife is asking real questions. I respect your sincerity in answering though. Prometheus is a good movie.
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Dec 26, 2016 22:03
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MacheteZombie posted:I don't think leave my wife is asking real questions. I respect your sincerity in answering though. I actually was, believe it or not. That seems like the kind of thing that would pop up in a comic or something, because of all the mad scientists.
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Dec 26, 2016 22:08
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Just noticed that David's wearing an engineer cloak in the trailer for Covenant.  
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Dec 26, 2016 22:18
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"Aren't you a little short for an Engineer?"
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Dec 26, 2016 22:21
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SUNKOS posted:Just noticed that David's wearing an engineer cloak in the trailer for Covenant. So hes wearing the robes are he is one of them now? One of them basically learned all their advanced knowledge by having access to it. That would be kinda interesting that David is the "prometheus" character who stole fire from the gods but that idea isn't touched in the movie Prometheus. Maybe there's alittle social commentary of absolute power corrupts all in the new movie, that David just wanted to do it "the right way". Tenzarin fucked around with this message at 23:30 on Dec 26, 2016 |
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Dec 26, 2016 23:27
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Xenomrph posted:"Aren't you a little short for an Engineer?" "David, why are you wearing a suit, man?" "I beg your pardon?" "You don't breathe, remember? So why wear a suit?" "I was designed like this because you people are more comfortable interacting with your own kind. If I didn't wear the suit, it would defeat the purpose." "They're making you guys pretty close, huh?" "Not too close, I hope." Tenzarin posted:So hes wearing the robes are he is one of them now? One of them basically learned all their advanced knowledge by having access to it. That would be kinda interesting that David is the "prometheus" character who stole fire from the gods but that idea isn't touched in the movie Prometheus. Maybe there's alittle social commentary of absolute power corrupts all in the new movie, that David just wanted to do it "the right way". I think they're setting it up so that David is the main villain and essentially responsible for everything. Having access to a whole colony ship of people in cryosleep would allow David to experiment a lot, given that it seems he wiped-out everything on the engineer home world, if rumors are to be believed.
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Dec 26, 2016 23:54
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Wouldn't that cloak be a lot baggier on David if the Space Jockeys are several feet taller than humans?
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Dec 27, 2016 01:01
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He's an android, I'm sure he can do some tailoring.
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Dec 27, 2016 01:04
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That and visual consistency isn't exactly something that Ridley Scott considers to be important.
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Dec 27, 2016 01:06
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He got it custom made as part of his cosplay.
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Dec 27, 2016 01:07
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