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2017 exmarx posted:no, but it amounts to the same thing & is a pretty stupid point to quibble over I disagree because the point of their argument is that people soundly rejected Hillary and Republicans just voted for the R. This deliberately ignores that a solid portion of those 2 million extra votes were his white supremacist base who generally don't vote. Nazis coming out for the nazi was a 2 million difference in numbers vs ~100k for people who felt Hillary didn't represent them and stayed home or voted third party. Voter suppression and a poor on the ground presence in a few states swung it considerably more than "being a centrist republican running as a Democrat" which is what that person wants to believe.
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Dec 27, 2016 17:23
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Thanks!
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Dec 27, 2016 17:25
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You should play ESO while there is still double XP, Latvian Forest Mushroom.
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Dec 27, 2016 17:32
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The Muppets On PCP posted:lol the cspam dems thread is amazing that thread needs to be gently misted with muscle relaxants
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Dec 27, 2016 17:39
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paranoid randroid posted:that thread needs to be gently misted with muscle relaxants Is that a euphemism for saying it needs to be gassed
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Dec 27, 2016 17:42
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its a metaphor for saying it needs to enhance its freaking calm
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Dec 27, 2016 17:46
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the paradigm shift posted:I disagree because the point of their argument is that people soundly rejected Hillary and Republicans just voted for the R. This deliberately ignores that a solid portion of those 2 million extra votes were his white supremacist base who generally don't vote. And this is what you want to believe.
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Dec 27, 2016 17:46
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paranoid randroid posted:its a metaphor for saying it needs to enhance its freaking calm Do you know what cspam is about my man
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Dec 27, 2016 17:46
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rudatron and migf posts, apparently
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Dec 27, 2016 17:48
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paranoid randroid posted:its a metaphor for saying it needs to enhance its freaking calm it needs to enhance its living on planet earth
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Dec 27, 2016 17:51
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Volkerball posted:And this is what you want to believe. It holds up to the facts unlike calling her a Republican
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Dec 27, 2016 17:52
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the paradigm shift posted:I disagree because the point of their argument is that people soundly rejected Hillary and Republicans just voted for the R. This deliberately ignores that a solid portion of those 2 million extra votes were his white supremacist base who generally don't vote.
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Dec 27, 2016 17:55
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paranoid randroid posted:that thread needs to be gently misted with muscle relaxants Guess I picked a good time to take a break from it, my promise to make a RPG thread being delayed nonwithstanding
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Dec 27, 2016 17:55
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the paradigm shift posted:I disagree because the point of their argument is that people soundly rejected Hillary and Republicans just voted for the R. This deliberately ignores that a solid portion of those 2 million extra votes were his white supremacist base who generally don't vote. there were about 12 million more eligible voters this year than in 2012, and 8 million more people voted (129,085,409 to 137,053,916), so comparing the raw numbers is misleading. turnout was about the same in both years (~55%). if you compare obama's share of the popular vote to clinton's in 2016 numbers, i think the difference might become clearer: clinton 16 (48.04%): 65,844,954 obama 12 (51.1%): 70,034,551 and for fun obama 08 (52.9%): 72,501,521 the paradigm shift posted:a solid portion of those 2 million extra votes were his white supremacist base who generally don't vote. what is this based on?
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Dec 27, 2016 17:55
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the paradigm shift posted:It holds up to the facts unlike calling her a Republican It doesn't hold up to facts any more than the other 100 hypotheses out there for why she lost.
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Dec 27, 2016 17:57
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https://twitter.com/DrJillStein/status/813213099427827712 merry christmas to you too jill stein
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Dec 27, 2016 17:59
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Volkerball posted:It doesn't hold up to facts any more than the other 100 hypotheses out there for why she lost. she lost because she was a weak candidate, and because the dems thought they could replicate the obama coalition without actually offering them anything (because they're a bunch of means-testing technocratic freaks)
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Dec 27, 2016 18:00
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the paradigm shift posted:I disagree because the point of their argument is that people soundly rejected Hillary and Republicans just voted for the R. This deliberately ignores that a solid portion of those 2 million extra votes were his white supremacist base who generally don't vote. turnout numbers are way too erratic to reliably attribute them to anything beyond "more people show up to the polls when the nation is widely seen as being in crisis" Trump got a million more votes than George Bush did in 2004, and is also the first Republican presidential candidate ever to top Bush's total number of votes from 2004, in spite of the fact that the voting-age population has grown by roughly 30 million people over those last twelve years
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Dec 27, 2016 18:01
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Volkerball posted:https://twitter.com/DrJillStein/status/813213099427827712 I'm excited for Dr. Jill Stein's stunning scoop on how water is wet in 2017.
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Dec 27, 2016 18:02
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trump got 130% as many votes as nixon did in '72
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Dec 27, 2016 18:03
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2017 exmarx posted:she lost because she was a weak candidate, and because the dems thought they could replicate the obama coalition without actually offering them anything (because they're a bunch of means-testing technocratic freaks) No she lost because we stopped beating up nerds in this country.
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Dec 27, 2016 18:03
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Randler posted:I'm excited for Dr. Jill Stein's stunning scoop on how water is wet in 2017.  Volkerball posted:No she lost because we stopped beating up nerds in this country. quote:means-testing technocratic freaks 
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Dec 27, 2016 18:04
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2017 exmarx posted:there were about 12 million more eligible voters this year than in 2012, and 8 million more people voted (129,085,409 to 137,053,916), so comparing the raw numbers is misleading. turnout was about the same in both years (~55%). In the context of the bit posted above where they specifically stated trump as getting fewer votes as a way to denigrate Hillary winning so much by the popular vote the larger number of eligible voters wasn't the point. The second bit is me firmly not seeing this as a undecided voters who always go for who makes a biggest splash and other lunatics who swing their votes. It's pretty obviously a large subset of people who voted because of Trump's racist rhetoric who normally sit out. Obviously this managed to outweigh the Republicans who chose not to vote. The small super tiny ridiculously stupid groups of people who chose not to vote for Hillary because she wasn't leftist or inspiring to them definitely didn't swing the election.
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Dec 27, 2016 18:06
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2017 exmarx posted:peter daou is going to shoot up a school 
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Dec 27, 2016 18:10
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Randler posted:You should play ESO while there is still double XP, Latvian Forest Mushroom.
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Dec 27, 2016 18:13
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6L9OcaPFqM
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Dec 27, 2016 18:13
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Just because Bin Laden was (allegedly) not directly funded by the US does not suddenly make all the instances of America supplying terrorist organizations either accidentally or deliberately disappear.
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Dec 27, 2016 18:14
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the paradigm shift posted:In the context of the bit posted above where they specifically stated trump as getting fewer votes as a way to denigrate Hillary winning so much by the popular vote the larger number of eligible voters wasn't the point. clinton suffered losses with the entire working class. many white voters who went for obama twice voted for trump (because he ran on the same kind of 'bring the jobs back' rhetoric as obama), and lots of black voters just stayed home. this analysis is p comprehensive: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/23/upshot/how-the-obama-coalition-crumbled-leaving-an-opening-for-trump.html   this equates to a 7.7% drop in black turnout in georgia, 5.3% in louisiana, ~5% in north carolina. of those, nc is the only state to have new voter suppression measures in place. this is also interesting http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2016/12/the_myth_of_the_rust_belt_revolt.html 
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Dec 27, 2016 18:35
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2017 exmarx posted:she lost because she was a weak candidate, and because the dems thought they could replicate the obama coalition without actually offering them anything (because they're a bunch of means-testing technocratic freaks) What did Obama offer that Hillary didn't besides being a stronger candidate e: or rather, I think that the candidate problem mattered a lot more than the platform problem
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Dec 27, 2016 18:37
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i don't know if i'd call being subject to increased voter suppression because the supreme court gutted the VRA "staying home"
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Dec 27, 2016 18:41
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Badger of Basra posted:What did Obama offer that Hillary didn't besides being a stronger candidate i don't think you can overestimate the effect of obama-the-individual, but he also did this kind of populist stuff: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWiSFwZJXwE like, i'm fairly confident the clinton campaign could have found a couple of examples of trump being a piece of poo poo boss
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Dec 27, 2016 18:44
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UberJew posted:i don't know if i'd call being subject to increased voter suppression because the supreme court gutted the VRA "staying home" quote:of those, nc is the only state to have new voter suppression measures in place. ????
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Dec 27, 2016 18:46
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2017 exmarx posted:i don't think you can overestimate the effect of obama-the-individual, but he also did this kind of populist stuff: Oh, so that's what that SNL sketch is based on!
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Dec 27, 2016 18:46
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2017 exmarx posted:did anyone post this good-rear end vid yet "the best sci fi movie i've seen in decades" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EN_VBc98dzg *sigh*
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Dec 27, 2016 18:49
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2017 exmarx posted:clinton suffered losses with the entire working class. many white voters who went for obama twice voted for trump (because he ran on the same kind of 'bring the jobs back' rhetoric as obama), and lots of black voters just stayed home. this analysis is p comprehensive: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/23/upshot/how-the-obama-coalition-crumbled-leaving-an-opening-for-trump.html Once again completely unrelated to the argument at hand. Quit trying to fishmech me away from the original point of you insisting it was Hillary the politician and 'centrist'(maybe in a worldwide context) policies that lost the election
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Dec 27, 2016 18:55
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2017 exmarx posted:i don't think you can overestimate the effect of obama-the-individual, but he also did this kind of populist stuff: Lol they did and they dumped it to the news people who reported on it once and moved on. The Mar a Lago chef is the one that stuck in my mind but there were numerous other instances that the campaign dumped on the media. Idk if they were in ads but that's already been said as a campaign flaw
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Dec 27, 2016 18:58
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the paradigm shift posted:Once again completely unrelated to the argument at hand. Quit trying to fishmech me away from the original point of you insisting it was Hillary the politician and 'centrist'(maybe in a worldwide context) policies that lost the election you're delusional dude. hillary sucked as a candidate and you're apparently unable to name a single policy she campaigned on
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Dec 27, 2016 19:02
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the paradigm shift posted:Lol they did and they dumped it to the news people who reported on it once and moved on. The Mar a Lago chef is the one that stuck in my mind but there were numerous other instances that the campaign dumped on the media. Idk if they were in ads but that's already been said as a campaign flaw like what the gently caress is this lol
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Dec 27, 2016 19:03
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If she would've come out against the Iran deal and in favor of turning Assad's palace into pebbles she would've won.
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Dec 27, 2016 19:03
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2017 exmarx posted:???? willfully naive quote:As is well known by now, there is virtually no evidence to support the claim. Nonetheless, 15 states this year will have new voter restrictions in place to combat the phantom problem, just in time for the presidential election. The total would have been 17, but federal judges this summer struck down North Carolina’s law – possibly the harshest in the country – and blocked another in North Dakota.
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Dec 27, 2016 19:06
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