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Guy Mann posted:How many millions of copies does a series have to sell before it stops being considered niche? It's a big niche
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Dec 28, 2016 22:56
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Nate RFB posted:There is something that just inherently irritates me about Axiom Verge's story and I think it largely comes down to the look/feel of the game and what I'd expect from something of that style. There's a bizarre dichotomy when that particular environment and art direction is married to such silliness. Like let's say you took Super Metroid, but gave it Other M quality narration and story beats. Would it still be as great of a game? That's how I feel about AV, and it feels frustrating because I think the base game is good enough to get by without it. Oh, yeah, now I see where you're getting at. Super Metroid's story emerged from its gameplay. The only written plot you get is a recap of Metroids 1 and 2 followed by a short blurb about what happened between 2 and Super that sets the stage. From there you learn that:
Without so much as a single line of dialog or page from a journal. It's pretty great. A lot of Axiom Verge's plot moments are pretty superfluous. For example the Rusalki don't really need to stop and explain that the giant headless and vaguely organic-looking machines in the background of one room are their bodies because it's fairly easy to piece together and, if you don't get the picture at that moment, outright revealed later in the game (accompanied by more unnecessary dialog explaining it). Meanwhile most of the journal entries don't really explain anything really relevant to the immediate story and are just nuggets of world-building information that would normally be found in a game manual back in the day. The plot isn't particularly complicated, so the developer probably could have told it through gameplay similar to Super Metroid with some effort. I guess Speedrun Mode is available if you want to pretend those plot points aren't there. Edit: * Also interesting is that if you played Metroid 2 you notice that it just grew to be a monstrous larva instead of metamorphosing. The reason for this is actually revealed in Fusion if you read between the lines, which is kinda neat. Mak0rz fucked around with this message at 23:08 on Dec 28, 2016 |
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Dec 28, 2016 23:01
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Guy Mann posted:How many millions of copies does a series have to sell before it stops being considered niche? Lurdiak posted:I really don't like Souls games Lurdiak posted:I don't think I ever will Lurdiak posted:don't like Souls games Lurdiak posted:niche games Lurdiak posted:don't think I ever will Lurdiak posted:inexplicably
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Dec 28, 2016 23:02
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Dark Souls is not for everyone, but it is something everyone should try. Even if you don't like it, the intelligence in its design is still pretty easily apparent. It's a good example of what can happen when a game is as refined as it possibly can be, at least, the first one is. It is a testament to how having really strong basic mechanics and level design can carry a game that doesn't have much else to it- and Dark Souls doesn't, besides the world building. The fact that nobody, not even From has managed to replicate the experience of Dark Souls 1 (though imo Bloodborne comes pretty close) speaks to how special and a standout it is. edit: And it's also a good example of how spending time refining a game's sequel can make it great. Demon's Souls is a good game but it's very rough, and the time the devs spent between Demon's and Dark Souls making the same systems much better really shows when you compare the two. CJacobs fucked around with this message at 23:07 on Dec 28, 2016 |
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Dec 28, 2016 23:03
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CJacobs posted:Dark Souls is not for everyone, but it is something everyone should try. Even if you don't like it, the intelligence in its design is still pretty easily apparent. It's a good example of what can happen when a game is as refined as it possibly can be, at least, the first one is. The fact that nobody, not even From has managed to replicate the experience of Dark Souls 1 (though imo Bloodborne comes pretty close) speaks to how special and a standout it is. I think it's probably safe to say that Dark Souls isn't for everyone, but it is for more people than it seems. Granted, "it isn't for everyone" is probably true of, like, every single piece of media ever produced, so I guess that's not much of a statement on my part.
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Dec 28, 2016 23:06
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Are you having a posting stroke.
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Dec 28, 2016 23:12
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CJacobs posted:Dark Souls is not for everyone, but it is something everyone should try. Even if you don't like it, the intelligence in its design is still pretty easily apparent. It's a good example of what can happen when a game is as refined as it possibly can be, at least, the first one is. It is a testament to how having really strong basic mechanics and level design can carry a game that doesn't have much else to it- and Dark Souls doesn't, besides the world building. The fact that nobody, not even From has managed to replicate the experience of Dark Souls 1 (though imo Bloodborne comes pretty close) speaks to how special and a standout it is. Fifteen capra demons puts "refined as it possibly can be" down as a filthy lie.
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Dec 28, 2016 23:21
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StrixNebulosa posted:Fifteen capra demons puts "refined as it possibly can be" down as a filthy lie. It's kind of arguable that no games get released completely finished.
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Dec 28, 2016 23:23
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Snak posted:It's kind of arguable that no games get released completely finished. They did until the patching era, when you were able to "fix it in post" as it were
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Dec 28, 2016 23:24
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Dark Souls 1 still has the worst Souls boss.
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Dec 28, 2016 23:26
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In Training posted:They did until the patching era, when you were able to "fix it in post" as it were I mean more that budget and timeline dictate when a game needs to be finished, rather than content. There are exceptions, but they are few and far between. edit: ^ Which one?
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Dec 28, 2016 23:26
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Snak posted:edit: ^ Which one? Bed of Chaos
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Dec 28, 2016 23:28
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I really enjoyed Dark Souls 2: Scholar of the First Sin if only for The Pursuer.
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Dec 28, 2016 23:29
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DS2 was the best if your big draw to the series was online stuff.
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Dec 28, 2016 23:30
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He's a great troll. SOTFS it's crazy how many times that fucker pops up.
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Dec 28, 2016 23:31
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Phantasium posted:Bed of Chaos Maybe it's because all bosses take me a half-dozen to a dozen tries, but I never understood the hate. It's kind of dumb, but it's not really that bad. It's a chore, but it doesn't take that long. But I guess I can't think of a worse boss. Yeah, okay, it's the worse souls boss,
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Dec 28, 2016 23:32
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StrixNebulosa posted:Fifteen capra demons puts "refined as it possibly can be" down as a filthy lie. I was talking more mechanically, but from a level design standpoint, that's fair. The last third of Dark Souls is imo the most flawed section of the whole series. It becomes pretty apparent what they had to cut and change for time, and it's easy to see what it could have been if they'd been able to sink more time into it, and that's why it's pretty disappointing. But even with the lackluster flop onto the finish line (DLC and the actual ending area aside), it's still an absolute marvel of game design prowess.
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Dec 28, 2016 23:35
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I think the worst souls bosses are the ones that are just kind of easy and forgettable Like the bed of chaos fight is kind of cool when you know what you're doing
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Dec 28, 2016 23:36
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CJacobs posted:I was talking more mechanically, but from a level design standpoint, that's fair. The last third of Dark Souls is imo the most flawed section of the whole series. It becomes pretty apparent what they had to cut and change for time, and it's easy to see what it could have been if they'd been able to sink more time into it, and that's why it's pretty disappointing. lost izalith is hardly the last 3rd of the game. tomb of giants and crystal cave are epic troll levels that are fun and i won't hear otherwise.
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Dec 28, 2016 23:37
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Snak posted:Maybe it's because all bosses take me a half-dozen to a dozen tries, but I never understood the hate. It's kind of dumb, but it's not really that bad. It's a chore, but it doesn't take that long. It's a bad gimmick that is the only boss that I can remember in the series that keeps progress between attempts because nearly every incorrect action is instant death and which has a boss run that's just long enough to be annoying. Also on future attempts after you've gotten the left and right parts that rear end in a top hat can and will attack you when you're sliding down from the boss door and I've been killed by that. Yeah, you die a few times on most Souls bosses but that's the only one in the series where I thought it wasn't my fault for missing a tell or some gimmick. gently caress that the floor just drops out on you.
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Dec 28, 2016 23:39
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Lizard Wizard posted:I really enjoyed Dark Souls 2: Scholar of the First Sin if only for The Pursuer. 
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Dec 28, 2016 23:41
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Real hurthling! posted:lost izalith is hardly the last 3rd of the game. I meant the entire post-lordvessel part. There's a noticeable drop in quality and area length as soon as you finish Anor Londo, except for like, the Duke's Archives and the Catacombs.
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Dec 28, 2016 23:47
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It's kind of neat how the bed of chaos and the lore surrounding it is more or less a retread of King's Field 1, though the bed of chaos predecessor in KF1 (the japanese game I mean, not the KF that got released outside of japan) wasn't a puzzle boss. You actually had to fight it, with magic and stuff.
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Dec 29, 2016 00:13
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The talk of Furi a few pages ago made me redownload and reinstall it. Despite not having played it since release, I breezed through the first six bosses with no issues, and get back to the sniper. After many tries, I finally beat the final bullet hell segment, which I had never done before, with 1 health left. Of course I didn't know that after this is a melee segment, where the boss instantly takes my 1 health, and I get kicked back to before the bullet hell. And then I fail to clear it a second time, lose my last life, and have to do the entire fight over again. Not only is that boss purest steaming bullshit, limited lives/continues is a horrible mechanic that should have been left in the 80s. haveblue fucked around with this message at 00:43 on Dec 29, 2016 |
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Dec 29, 2016 00:38
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You wouldn't be Playing Games The Right Way if there were unlimited lives.
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Dec 29, 2016 00:50
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The concept of lives and continues costing you progress feels like a mechanic entirely driven by inertia, yeah
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Dec 29, 2016 00:56
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Jonas Albrecht posted:Hey Chat thread. What are you trying to finish before January 1st? Nate RFB posted:Dead Space 1, Shantae, and the Dishonored 1 DLC. Now to just get through Yakuza 5 (or drop it, haven't quite decided yet) and I'll be all done with my PS3 backlog.
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Dec 29, 2016 01:04
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Nate RFB posted:Aaaaand just wrapped up the Dishonored 1 DLC, so hooray I was able to get through that lot. i keep buying ever more mediocre 360 games i never played cause they are cheap. gonna be playing 360 forever.
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Dec 29, 2016 01:17
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I dont like souls games but its because I like Ys combat and once you play Oath in Felghana or Origins your expectations for action are permanently textured forever which is not to say that someone who enjoys a souls game can't enjoy an Ys game, just that if Ys is your favorite action game like it is mine, every other action game will feel like it takes place in slow motion, and the souls games felt the slowest to me although there is stuff like Furi that tries to have the souls-like anticipatory combat but much more uptempo. i feel like I can get into that
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Dec 29, 2016 01:25
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i have room in my heart for many different games
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Dec 29, 2016 01:26
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I love Ys and Souls
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Dec 29, 2016 01:27
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Ys games have conditioned me to expect my sword to slice through everything like butter and whirl around like a dervish Unfortunately until Crosscode comes out the only other game that really came close was Shining Force NEO for PS2. maybe hammerwatch with a certain build
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Dec 29, 2016 01:28
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All the Souls games are great, but I'm surprised how much DS3 has grown on me. After a cycle through NG+ I think I like it even more than Demon's now, probably on par with DS1. Also I dislike DS2 a whole lot less after doing some co-op and embracing the love of ultra greatswords, but it still feels more like a sequel to EverGrace than a real Souls game to me.
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Dec 29, 2016 01:30
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Quest For Glory II posted:Ys games have conditioned me to expect my sword to slice through everything like butter and whirl around like a dervish My friend, have you heard the good news of musou?
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Dec 29, 2016 01:31
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I hate Ys and Souls, but they are still good games.
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Dec 29, 2016 01:31
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chumbler posted:My friend, have you heard the good news of musou?
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Dec 29, 2016 01:31
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Quest For Glory II posted:Ys games have conditioned me to expect my sword to slice through everything like butter and whirl around like a dervish They still make Ys games. Anew one came out this year
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Dec 29, 2016 01:32
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I liked Ys because it reminded me of Dark Souls more than other more recent games that have tried to directly emulate them.
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Dec 29, 2016 01:32
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I'm playing the new world of warcraft expansion and I'm sad that you can't get demon hunter weapons that don't look like gigantic cosplay props. There's all these demon hunter npcs in Burning Crusade that have sensible sized weapons but all you get to use is Like c'mon now. Lurdiak fucked around with this message at 01:48 on Dec 29, 2016 |
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Dec 29, 2016 01:45
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I unironically like Blizzard's giant weapons and shoulder pads. I think they look cool.
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Dec 29, 2016 01:48
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