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Fat Shat Sings posted:In my mind it's obviously a cubic kilometer figure. They are simulating a giant block of empty space, so they take the amount of kilometers in the cubic area of the space they are simulating and come up with the total kilometers to explore. 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 km³ ↳ a sphere with r=2.879×10⁷ km ↳ a radius of 96 light seconds (~0.2 AU) ↳ less than the orbit of Mercury Buuuuut… per previous CIG statements, the game space isn't spherical — it's flattened to only be 200,000 km high, which means that what we're looking at is: 500,000,000,000,000,000 km² ↳ a circle with r=3.989×10⁸ km ↳ a radius of 1,330 light seconds (~2.67 AU) ↳ roughly the radius of the first Kirkwood gap in the asteroid belt. …or… ↳ a square with s=7.071×10⁸ km ↳ 2,358 light seconds (~4.73 AU) side to side ↳ slightly smaller than Betelgeuse. 
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Dec 29, 2016 14:33
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The Titanic posted:I believe this too. But the one snag I have is the 64-bit stuff they took apparent months to hack in. I'm not a video game engine writer, but making a switch like that seems, to me, that it needs to go all the way down to the core. Everything on top of it would then need to be fixed to support it as well. Out of all the stuff they talked about doing, I felt like converting a 32-bit engine to support 64-bit scales and sizes would be the most difficult "ground up" sort of thing. It's the kind of change where most people would say "gently caress it" and start writing a new engine from scratch so they didn't forget something or break something else reliant on the wrong number convention. I will poorly give my layperson explanation: When we say 64-bit here we mean 64-bit positions of entities in the SC engine. A 64-bit engine, like Skyrim, is referring to move from 32-bit to 64-bit codebase so you can use more ram and such. https://tomforsyth1000.github.io/blog.wiki.html#%5B%5BA%20matter%20of%20precision%5D%5D stuff. From Derreks blog it looks like he thinks they went with some sort of kinda-fixed-point solution which I think is only natural. It would definitely suck to try move an established engine to use 64-bit positions as it could touch from how you save/load data, to optimisation and packing problems, right down to the rendering side of things. Certainly not impossible and definitely something you would need in a large scale game world. If they did it for real I can't imagine merging with another engine fork is anything but a nightmare. moveable shape posted:We have finally arrived at a reasonable explanation. Chris is telling the truth (like-for-like) to conceal the fact that nothing substantial happened. This is a licensing move Seems the best explanation for everything. They have changed nothing. Maybe the AWS integration completely separate from the whole engine change was the thing that took a year?
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Dec 29, 2016 14:33
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Reading this thread makes it obvious that none of you have done any game development before. Ben Parry's drawing is spot on: This seems to be a forked repository of Cry Engine. The main branch (probably develop? As it has future unreleased versions) As you can see, SC forked from 3.7 and LY forked from 3.8. After the switch someone checked out the 3.8 branch and they have all the improvements of LY as expected. HEAD is now at the last commit on the 3.8 branch. Of course you don't currently have any of the commits made to the SC branch, if you want to merge those you'll probably break everything and have a long manual merge process ahead of you, but hey, you've switched to the LY branch and it works! Seriously, that graph shows a gross misunderstanding of how git works.
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Dec 29, 2016 14:42
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D_Smart posted:
It does account for it. It means they changed nothing to their custom code to accommodate any merge, and thus got nothing from the proper Lumberyard code. They have their 50% customization or whatever they claim (provided that is true, which who knows?). And they are still "behind" the 3.8 point that LY forker from. Exactly as much "behind" it as they were before. Iglocska posted:Seriously, that graph shows a gross misunderstanding of how git works.
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Dec 29, 2016 14:47
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Iglocska posted:Seriously, that graph shows a gross misunderstanding of how git works. I'm glad someone said this because I keep looking at this graph and I have no idea what it is trying to illustrate. The first image shows LY branching from 3.8 and SC branching from 3.7. The second image shows exactly the same thing, except with the trunk coloured in red for some reason, implying that Cryengine branched from LY instead of the other way around, but in such a way that makes literally no difference to anything.
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Dec 29, 2016 14:49
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Chalks posted:I'm glad someone said this because I keep looking at this graph and I have no idea what it is trying to illustrate. The first image shows LY branching from 3.8 and SC branching from 3.7. The second image shows exactly the same thing, except with the trunk coloured in red for some reason, implying that Cryengine branched from LY instead of the other way around, but in such a way that makes literally no difference to anything. https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/259596-The-Star-Citizen-Thread-v5?p=4943960&viewfull=1#post4943960 Basically, second image shows the trunk red (but it's the same trunk as the first image) because it is now let's say labeled as LumberYard code, even though it is identical to the CryEngine "trunk" up to the point that LY forks off (3.8.x). (Ben or some other guy call it "LumberYard legacy code" up to the point of the fork off CE 3.8, where LumberYard proper begins). SC remains forked off the previous point (3.7) as it was originally. No actual merge has occurred. But they are now in "LumberYard" because Amazon has a license that gives them access to the CryEngine source code "history versions" before 3.8 (3.8 being the point where they forked off from and did their own thing); so basically SC can now say its a fork off LumberYard "legacy code" (ie Cryengine 3.7 as it always were) or has switched to LumberYard (marketing speak mainly). AbstractNapper fucked around with this message at 15:05 on Dec 29, 2016 |
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Dec 29, 2016 15:03
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AbstractNapper posted:Nope. It shows that the SC branch remained as it were. They are not at the head of LY, lmao (and they are probably laughing their butts off too at that). Exactly. The graph simply shows that merging the LY changes would be similarly difficult to merging CE 3.9 changes - you'd basically have to merge whatever Crytek/amazon was working on with the frankenmonster that CIG created, so no change there from "switching" to LY. But then again switching to it implies that the graph is completely wrong.
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Dec 29, 2016 15:04
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Yes, all the work to merge any features from Lumberyard or to merge with Lumberyard proper is not done, and noone knows if they will ever do it. I am guessing they will at least attempt it at some point and face the actual nightmare that everyone here, and also Parry expects.
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Dec 29, 2016 15:10
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LrTut3lAFs0 Fanmade Star Marine Trailer. Goons said it couldn't be done, but 10 $ SA Account vs 3500 $ Pledge SC Bundle is not a an equal fight, so don't be sad. This Game dunks on CoD and BF1 so hard.
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Dec 29, 2016 15:22
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Samizdata posted:You are making EXACTLY my point, albeit with MUCH more effort involved. The Citizenry is deluded they know anything about multi-threaded development because of the endless rounds of buzzword bingo with Chris and Company, so they happily accept any vaguely technical sounding explanation as long as it is, at some point, explained with adequate flailing. I felt it needed spelling out anyway because the explanations trade on the devil in the details, and if you can't see what they hide you can't have an informed opinion. This is the internet, no one should believe a drat thing on the basis of trust. The other thing to take away from this is that for their claims to be believable you have to accept they know as much about multi-threaded development as the Citizenry and that's amazing. Certainly true of CR but if Parry is to be believed, its parps all the way down bro. AbstractNapper posted:No actual merge has occurred. Yeah this. It's their get-out for throwing away years of work, fits the facts best. ewe2 fucked around with this message at 15:28 on Dec 29, 2016 |
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Dec 29, 2016 15:23
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 Ben offering to help someone move  And a WC Kickstarter, is someone selling more trash ? Wrf
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Dec 29, 2016 15:27
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AbstractNapper posted:
And they managed the effort of no merge in only 2 days. CIG keep their level of excellence in progression in every aspect of this project.
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Dec 29, 2016 15:28
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Chalks posted:I'm glad someone said this because I keep looking at this graph and I have no idea what it is trying to illustrate. The first image shows LY branching from 3.8 and SC branching from 3.7. The second image shows exactly the same thing, except with the trunk coloured in red for some reason, implying that Cryengine branched from LY instead of the other way around, but in such a way that makes literally no difference to anything. The analogy I use is this: you buy a 2012 Ford Mustang back when it was new. Four years later Ford is going out of business and the company is picked up by Dodge/Chrysler. They start making the 2016 vehicles with their own name on them. Then you make an announcement that you just partnered with Dodge and are now the proud owner of a 2012 Dodge Mustang.
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Dec 29, 2016 15:30
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The licensing move to LY is boring, so I choose to further harp on the 100 sextillion “kilometres”… Assuming that it's actually insanely incompetently labelled km³, let's compare that number to some other space games. EVE systems will happily have a radius of 100 AU (1.496×10¹⁰ km), for a volume of 1.402×10³¹ km³. There are 7,500 systems in the game, for a total game volume of 1.052×10³⁵ km³, or 105 decillion cubic kilometres — four "illions" (i.e. 12 orders of magnitude) more than the pitiful state of SC. E:D has the Milky Way. It contains 400 billion star systems. Each system will effectively let you fly until Microsoft forces a reboot due to system updates, but let's cap it at 400,000 Ls each (1.199×10¹¹ km) because when you arrive in a binary system with that distance between the stars, you say “gently caress it, that's too far” and jump out… unless you're going to Proxima Centauri. That would put the radius at 5.995×10¹⁰ km, and volume at 9.025×10³² km³ each, and the total game volume at 3.61×10⁴⁴ km³, or 361 tredecillion cubic kilometres — three illions more than EVE and seven more than SC (so 21 orders of magnitude more). KSP has its farthest planet, Eeloo, at an apoapsis of 113,549, 713 km — 379 Ls (~0.76 AU) — which is practically spitting distance in space. You can travel beyond that to get a better transfer orbit, but let's use that distance anyway just to underplay the size of the Kerbol system. That radius means the system has a volume of 6.13263×10²⁴ km³ — 6 septillion cubic kilometres, or a full order of magnitude more than SC. …in fact, just for fun. Freelancer (post-campaign) has 45 systems, with a size varying from 80×80 km to about 200×200 — let's say 120×120 on average. There's never any real reason to exit the ecliptic, but targets and docking ports may appear in a ±4km zone from that. So that's just under 4 million km³ — almost six “illions” (actually 17 orders of magnitude) smaller than SC.
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Dec 29, 2016 15:30
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Mr.PayDay posted:And they managed the effort of no merge in only 2 days. CIG keep their level of excellence in progression in every aspect of this project. I mean you know most of the "switch" work would have to be editing that splash screen to include the LumberYard logo.
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Dec 29, 2016 15:34
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Zest posted:
This is a good cat imo.
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Dec 29, 2016 15:47
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Tippis posted:The licensing move to LY is boring, so I choose to further harp on the 100 sextillion “kilometres”… And just yesterday in E:D, I travelled from one star in a binary system to another, crossing 490k light seconds. So I overkilled SC's "available" space even more. By the way, it took me 7 minutes in supercruise. 
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Dec 29, 2016 15:49
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If the switch to Lumberyard was literally them renaming where they branched from, and changing some legalese files in the release, even I will be shocked. That would just be totally impressive.
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Dec 29, 2016 16:01
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I wonder if Ben was part of the visit to occulus HQ http://www.polygon.com/2016/12/27/14088862/cops-arrest-oculus-executive-in-underage-sex-sting
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Dec 29, 2016 16:01
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Young Freud posted:That's my guess what's happening here, the missile is moving way too fast for the game engine to register the collision.
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Dec 29, 2016 16:02
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Tippis posted:The licensing move to LY is boring, so I choose to further harp on the 100 sextillion “kilometres”… The reason EVE and E:D can get away with that though is instancing. EVE won't even simulate a system if nobody is in it for long enough, and most everything isn't even simulated until someone arrives on grid. Good thing Star Citizen hasn't promised to completely simulate all of that space real time, seamlessly. Why it might even form some kind of delusional house of cards that should have fallen down a long time ago where a guy stuffed into a too small turtleneck has promised 10x the level of detail and graphic rendering of any other game, with 5,000,000 completely simulated NPC entities, hundreds of thousands of ships, hundreds of planets and outposts in an area a significant percentage of the size of the entire known universe all completely 100% simulated real time with no instancing. If people had paid $140,000,000 for what is objectively impossible then we might have something to talk about but I don't see what your issue is here.
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Dec 29, 2016 16:03
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Sappo569 posted:I wonder if Ben was part of the visit to occulus HQ So, wait. Oculus executives include a kiddy diddler and a raging racist. I don't so much wonder if Ben was a part of the visit as whether he might not be happier there…
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Dec 29, 2016 16:09
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Mr Fronts posted:Please, allow me. Quoting this, because it needs more appreciation. Spot on, mate.
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Dec 29, 2016 16:15
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Mr Fronts posted:Please, allow me. Where is Helmet 2.0?
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Dec 29, 2016 16:19
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Iglocska posted:Seriously, that graph shows a gross misunderstanding of how git works. Once they start merging LY changes, they're gonna be in the hell of merge conflicts for eternity, unless they're extremely picky about what they merge (lol no) and Amazon have good discipline about their commits. It's not a misunderstanding of git, just a badly thought out illustration of CIG being CIG.
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Dec 29, 2016 16:20
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AbstractNapper posted:Parry explained it more on the frontier forums, and then some other guy also offered his understanding of it and Parry seems to have agreed. That makes even more sense, now that I think about it. Meanwhile, Ben is having a "come at me bro" moment https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/814479769639260162 So I updated the blog http://www.dereksmart.com/forum/index.php?topic=5.msg738#msg738
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Dec 29, 2016 16:21
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Fat Shat Sings posted:Why it might even form some kind of delusional house of cards that should have fallen down a long time ago where a guy stuffed into a too small turtleneck has promised 10x the level of detail and graphic rendering of any other game, with 5,000,000 completely simulated NPC entities, hundreds of thousands of ships, hundreds of planets and outposts in an area a significant percentage of the size of the entire known universe all completely 100% simulated real time with no instancing. In some alternate reality, SC is made and is a success. And in one infographic they release will have '30, 583 Space Janitors have cleaned 34,031,989,123 toilets with no actual player within 100 light years near them'.
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Dec 29, 2016 16:25
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Libluini posted:And just yesterday in E:D, I travelled from one star in a binary system to another, crossing 490k light seconds. So I overkilled SC's "available" space even more. Hutton Orbital is 0.22Ly (6,784,404 ls) from the primary star in Alpha Centauri. That's a good 45 minute trek in supercruise.
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Dec 29, 2016 16:29
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Cao Ni Ma posted:Watch FAU start his own forums with the rest of the admins and leave lowtax hanging dry He's too busy with feminism threads in D&D. That'll prolly keep him too busy for that. Heck, it explains why he and the FYAD brigade have been terribly lacking in here as of late. Also...thread is funny again, thanks Ben Parry and of course kikkveliho or however you're spelt. <3
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Dec 29, 2016 16:31
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Tarquinn posted:Yeah, I am pretty sure that is our old insane friend Bester. Good times. I love how goons can't even remember his actual name, just the name his old AV got remembered by and which drove him mad. 
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Dec 29, 2016 16:37
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Syd Syko posted:Ok, so what you're saying is, you don't actually know poo poo about what they did or didn't do, and are basing your bullshit off of some poo poo you read on the internet. Uh, ok, whatever dude, toodles~ There's a very important question that I don't think anyone's ever asked you itt. How much you in for, commando?
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Dec 29, 2016 16:46
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toiletbrush posted:Now they can say their code is 'based on LY' but its still at the 'just got into work, still checking Facebook and drinking coffee' stage.
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Dec 29, 2016 16:49
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Dark Off posted:Where is Helmet 2.0? It's the squiggly bit on the middle left.
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Dec 29, 2016 16:49
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D_Smart posted:That makes even more sense, now that I think about it. https://twitter.com/klumaster/status/814491481583054852 You done goofed. Consequences will never be the same.
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Dec 29, 2016 16:57
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Who/what is Dadley?
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Dec 29, 2016 16:58
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XK posted:If the switch to Lumberyard was literally them renaming where they branched from, and changing some legalese files in the release, even I will be shocked. That would just be totally impressive. It's to laugh at for sure, although I don't think many will get the hilarity of it. Yet.
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Dec 29, 2016 16:58
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AP posted:
Good god they like to make things up, I didn't even do that another poster did.
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Dec 29, 2016 16:59
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toiletbrush posted:I think what its trying to show is that Amazon created a LY branch some time around 3.7, but didn't actually make their own changes and just kept up to date until 3.8 when CE and LY finally diverged. All CIG have done is replayed their changes on top of the 3.7 branch of LY, which is obviously easy as it's the same as 3.7 CE. Now they can say their code is 'based on LY' but its still at the 'just got into work, still checking Facebook and drinking coffee' stage. If that's the case, what took them 2 days?...
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Dec 29, 2016 17:01
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Iglocska posted:If that's the case, what took them 2 days?... It made the engine switch more believable, for people who know nothing about game development. Why the gently caress is Ben Parry talking? All the smart people have zipped their lips, and he's getting into detailed arguments directly with Derek. I totally expect he's going to get told to shut the gently caress up by CIG.
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Dec 29, 2016 17:05
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Iglocska posted:If that's the case, what took them 2 days?... Had to adjust the garage door opener.
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Dec 29, 2016 17:05
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C-Bangin' it 