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StrixNebulosa posted:*waves hand* I think a major element of the Souls series is that the games are genuinely punishing in a way that many games, even in similar genres, are afraid to be. imo that's to their benefit, but it also makes them relatively unapproachable for people who don't want to deal with that challenge. You just have no choice. The general argument against an easy difficulty in the Souls games is that they have one built in, in the form of using your humanity to summon or kindle bonfires for more estus flasks. But to get there, you have to get the humanity in the first place. There's a base level of challenge that some people just can't or won't deal with. And then the logical conclusion is that if you can't deal with it, the game's not for you and you shouldn't play it. But why shouldn't you be able to play it? The Souls games are true marvels of game design, they stand so far out from the crowd that people refer to standout games in their own genres as "the Dark Souls of x" now. To not be able to experience these fantastic games because the game is too hard for you- not even too hard in general, just based on your own skill vs the game's difficulty -just sucks. It's a real barrier to entry that I think could be relatively easily solved. edit: And that doesn't mean that an easy mode would be easy, as in just a cakewalk through the game. It'd still be a challenge, but a challenge meant for people with a different skillset. CJacobs fucked around with this message at 12:23 on Dec 29, 2016 |
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Dec 29, 2016 12:20
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CJacobs posted:I think a major element of the Souls series is that the games are genuinely punishing in a way that many games, even in similar genres, are afraid to be. imo that's to their benefit, but it also makes them relatively unapproachable for people who don't want to deal with that challenge. You just have no choice. The general argument against an easy difficulty in the Souls games is that they have one built in, in the form of using your humanity to summon or kindle bonfires for more estus flasks. But to get there, you have to get the humanity in the first place. There's a base level of challenge that some people just can't or won't deal with. And then the logical conclusion is that if you can't deal with it, the game's not for you and you shouldn't play it. In my case, if the game were slowed down - hell, if it were a turn-based game, I'd go through it multiple times. I have average-to-bad reflexes and not that much patience for learning complicated reflex-based skillsets, but I love fiddling with turn-based gameplay ala Invisible Inc, Pokemon, XCOM. ...But then it would be a completely different game, with different balance and design. It's a nice dream - an easy mode that caters to a completely different crowd so you get the same difficulty curve and reactions to something like the Ornstein and whathisface fight - but it is an impossible one without, say, a crazy fan redoing the entire thing as a fan project, but given that it's a 3D game, that's...probably not going to happen the way it does with the FF romhacks and such. Anyways - if easy mode could just be...there, with the attitude of "the game it easy so you can enjoy the sights", it would be great! I know games like to be elitist about difficulty modes - easy is baby mode, here's your free embarrassing bow and we'll lock off content because you're not good enough for it - but, damnit, games are for fun first, not dick-waving. The more difficulty sliders a game has without removing content, the better I say. Locking off cheevos? Fine. Locking off actual content? Not fine. (Hi I have a grudge against RE4 at the moment.)
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Dec 29, 2016 12:38
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What does RE4 lock you out of?
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Dec 29, 2016 12:44
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StrixNebulosa posted:In my case, if the game were slowed down - hell, if it were a turn-based game, I'd go through it multiple times. I have average-to-bad reflexes and not that much patience for learning complicated reflex-based skillsets, but I love fiddling with turn-based gameplay ala Invisible Inc, Pokemon, XCOM. Max Payne 1 and 2 do an interesting compromise, I think. In those games, time slows down further for each guy you kill while you're in one run of bullet time, so you can slow the game down to a drat crawl to the point where your bullet time bar isn't even moving if you go on enough of a rampage. In addition to giving you more painkillers etc, the easier difficulties also decrease the number of kills it takes to get there which very highly affects the flow of the shooting. Max Payne 3 is a bit similar. In that game, you gain bullet time for basically everything that happens in combat (being shot gets you a bunch, being shot at gets you a little, shooting an enemy gets you a little, killing an enemy gets you a bunch). The easier difficulties change the amount of bullet time you get in each situation as well as how slowly it burns, which affects the flow in the same way. Sakurazuka posted:What does RE4 lock you out of? I actually never knew about this stuff, but several areas are changed to be inaccessible in easy mode and instead you completely circumvent them (don't know if StrixNebulosa has finished it or not): quote:The key room in Chapter 3-1 is inaccessible, so players can go directly into Salazar's Castle. The Maze in Chapter 3-2 is inaccessible, thus player can proceed to the door to continue the game. The King's Grail room and the clocktower in Chapter 4-1 are also inaccessible. The King's Grail is already in its place, so there's no need for the player to substain the "curse" to get it. The lever inside the clocktower is relocated to the area outside of it, and there is a barrier blocking the stairs to the entrance of the clocktower. In the same chapter, there will be only one garrador in the room where two would normally appear. Which imo is really weird because none of those areas are really... all that different in difficulty from what's around them? CJacobs fucked around with this message at 12:50 on Dec 29, 2016 |
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Dec 29, 2016 12:46
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Sakurazuka posted:What does RE4 lock you out of? Places, apparently. I looked it up while I was considering restarting on easy so fights would go faster, and - I don't know if these places have plot in them, but it's frustrating to know that I just won't have access unless I struggle through.
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Dec 29, 2016 12:48
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Oh, huh, I never knew that. TBH I wasn't sure it even had an easy mode since Normal uses an adaptive difficulty anyway.
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Dec 29, 2016 13:00
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Sakurazuka posted:Oh, huh, I never knew that. TBH I wasn't sure it even had an easy mode since Normal uses an adaptive difficulty anyway. It doesn't, except on the HD PC release and one of the original region-exclusive releases way back in the day apparently.
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Dec 29, 2016 13:04
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I get that going into a game completely blind and with no carried over knowledge from other games, in general, can be daunting. But there are button prompts. If you don't know what floor messages are, because, who would, if they haven't played a souls-game, you should still understand "hey, A think popped up on my screen which said 'hit x to read message'". If you do that, you get a message that tells you some basic gameplay feature. If you can't conclude from this that finding more messages will explain more gameplay features, I don't know what to tell you. So you get to the hunter's dream, and you don't know it's a hub. That's fine. But it's not like it takes one button press to leave it. "One of the things you explored sucked you out of it" is where you chose to re-awaken above ground and said yes. So you didn't know what that mean. That's fair, but it's not the same as going left or right. You say that a series of popups telling you all the buttons is what you want. The only difference between that and what bloodborne has is that you don't have look at them if you don't want. It pops up on the screen "Hit X to read message". It's not really that obtuse. The problem with lowering the difficulty is that is would just make the game lovely. If the game were "easier", you could get through it just by spamming R1. Everyone would do this. 90% of players. People would be like "this game is a repetitive bore-fest. The gameplay of forcing you to learn different tactics and how to use them effectively IS the game. Turn-based souls would be the worst turn-based RPG ever. It's okay if souls games aren't for you. People like different things. The solution is not to make those things try to appeal to everyone. I'm sorry if your first experience, including all us assholes here, has been negative. I'm glad that you are giving the game a shot, and that you think you are going to like it once you get past your initial acclimation.
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Dec 29, 2016 13:28
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Yo Hyper Light Drifter is so good.
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Dec 29, 2016 14:17
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Dec 29, 2016 14:21
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Mark Brown has a decent take on why Souls shouldn't have an easy mode here: https://youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DK5tPJDZv_VE&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwjVxf_kwZnRAhVHWSYKHZHOBh4QtwIIDTAA&usg=AFQjCNGyUpaH63CtwCeClpj7nnOPvTAnkQ I don't remember his exact argument, and I'm on my phone so I can't watch it right now, but I recall it was reasonable. My own take is that the particular rhythm of play that the daunting enemies and enemy placements lead to is so integral to the games that I can't really picture a real easy mode. Demon's Souls can be pretty easy if you start with a Royal, same with a Sorcerer start in Dark Souls 2 (though less so 1, the great spells require a bit more foreknowledge to find there if I remember correctly), but Bloodborne and DS3 don't offer much refuge. Incidentally, to whoever said they like faster action games like Ys and couldn't get into Souls: if you have a PS4, you might like Bloodborne better. It's a much more fluid and fast action game, though not Ys or Platinum fast.
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Dec 29, 2016 14:38
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lazorexplosion posted:Yo Hyper Light Drifter is so good. I loved Hyper Light Drifter. I should play through again with the 60fps patch. It's a fun game and its setting and atmosphere are extremely my poo poo.
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Dec 29, 2016 14:39
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I waited to get it until after the 60 fps patch and I'm glad I did. I'm really not a big stickler for frames but drat that game looks nice in motion.
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Dec 29, 2016 14:44
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StrixNebulosa posted:*waves hand* If you're on PC you can cheat your way through with Cheat Engine, like balloon your own numbers like crazy so you're technically invincible but just make it super easy. Could be worth looking into at some point
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Dec 29, 2016 14:53
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At the risk of stating the obvious, make sure you're offline before you do anything with cheat engine.
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Dec 29, 2016 14:58
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Snak posted:The problem with lowering the difficulty is that is would just make the game lovely. If the game were "easier", you could get through it just by spamming R1. Everyone would do this. 90% of players. People would be like "this game is a repetitive bore-fest. The gameplay of forcing you to learn different tactics and how to use them effectively IS the game. Turn-based souls would be the worst turn-based RPG ever. It's okay if souls games aren't for you. People like different things. The solution is not to make those things try to appeal to everyone. Why not? Put in an easy mode that people can ignore if they want, and boom done. You say it "makes the game lovely". This would have zero effect on the game other than it'd appeal to more people. The game appealing to more people is good. Not that a Souls game really needs to try to get more people to play it at this point, but so what. I'll never understand the argument about an optional easy mode because it has no effect on your enjoyment of the game. Like hell even if it were true that everyone would just play the easy mode instead (which I don't agree with that) you'd still have the normal game right there, untouched from dirty vile easy mode hands. It would have no effect on your game or you in any way. Every game should have an easy mode or a mode that's just like "hey sit back and enjoy the story, don't worry too much about the challege". I play plenty of games on easy mode cause most of the time I don't feel like dying a hundred times to something just for the sake of challege (with the exception of platformers, I loved getting my rear end beat by the new DKC games' harder levels or Mario 3D World's final stage). But luckily I can still play those games in that way, and other people can still play it their way! The two sides never have to interact at all. It's just like when 3D World introduced that super leaf or Tropical Freeze offering to literally play the level for you so you can get through it if you're having a hard time. People got really mad at those things being in the game but like... why? You can ignore them. You don't have to do the easy mode if you don't want I haven't even played any Souls games, I've watched a hundred Bloodborne playthroughs, that's it. So I don't even have a dog in this fight with regards to Souls games, but giving people more options is never a bad thing.
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Dec 29, 2016 15:00
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Lurdiak posted:Yeah I know, I just wish I could transmog them into warglaives that are of reasonable size an don't have 8 million cracks and notches on them. I don't know what's compatible with warglaives in terms of appearance, but the artifact weapons can be transmogged like any other piece of gear.
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Dec 29, 2016 15:03
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Dark Souls should do the Mario Galaxy thing where if you die x times Rosalina will show you how to beat Nameless King
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Dec 29, 2016 15:08
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Macaluso posted:Why not? Put in an easy mode that people can ignore if they want, and boom done. You say it "makes the game lovely". This would have zero effect on the game other than it'd appeal to more people. The game appealing to more people is good. Not that a Souls game really needs to try to get more people to play it at this point, but so what. I'll never understand the argument about an optional easy mode because it has no effect on your enjoyment of the game. Like hell even if it were true that everyone would just play the easy mode instead (which I don't agree with that) you'd still have the normal game right there, untouched from dirty vile easy mode hands. It would have no effect on your game or you in any way. Every game should have an easy mode or a mode that's just like "hey sit back and enjoy the story, don't worry too much about the challege". I play plenty of games on easy mode cause most of the time I don't feel like dying a hundred times to something just for the sake of challege (with the exception of platformers, I loved getting my rear end beat by the new DKC games' harder levels or Mario 3D World's final stage). But luckily I can still play those games in that way, and other people can still play it their way! The two sides never have to interact at all. It would be bad for the game. People would think the game was shittier. It would get worse reviews, and it would sell less. It would take developement time away from making the good part of the game good to make a shittier version of the game so that people who aren't interested in the challenge, the core element of the game can experience... what, the graphics? The challenge is the game. A less challenging version is literally a different game. edit: basically I disagree that options are always good. Snak fucked around with this message at 15:20 on Dec 29, 2016 |
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Dec 29, 2016 15:18
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Macaluso posted:It's just like when 3D World introduced that super leaf or Tropical Freeze offering to literally play the level for you so you can get through it if you're having a hard time. People got really mad at those things being in the game but like... why? You can ignore them. You don't have to do the easy mode if you don't want I hate those things because I always feel slightly insulted when they show up. I'd rather have a selectable easy mode. (I also don't have strong feelings about this, so maybe "hate" is a strong word.) For Souls/Bloodborne, I think there's more to the difficulty than enemy HP/damage, so an easy mode would necessitate easier level layouts, different enemy and trap placements, and all of that in order to both be easier and not be boring. Plus, the way the games do multi-player makes it more complicated to have players on different "modes" of the game. It's one of those games where an easy mode really would complicate development more than it seems.
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Dec 29, 2016 15:31
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I was playing World of Final Fantasy and I think there was more strategy in my attempt to capture a Black Chocochick than in nearly any other RPG I've played this year. I had to heal the enemy to open a capture opportunity, but I had to weaken it for the capture attempt to stick. Queue a prolonged battle of me unstacking to deal less damage so I don't kill the enemy, stacking up to heal three units at once, using potions on the enemy when the opportunity closed, and doing quick and basic math to make sure I wasn't going to kill the enemy with my next attack. It was far more engaging than I had expected and I think I approached it at just the right level, if not a level below ideal. I ran into a Magic Jar in a similar way, by going a little off the beaten path in a different area, but I didn't have the elixir it wanted to trigger the imprisimtunity. I killed it slowly and I'm worried that it was maybe the only one of it's kind? I got an item that I think will let me transform a different mirage into the Magic Jar, but I won't have another shot at capturing one in the wild. A mild bummer.
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Dec 29, 2016 16:14
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LawfulWaffle posted:I was playing World of Final Fantasy and I think there was more strategy in my attempt to capture a Black Chocochick than in nearly any other RPG I've played this year. I had to heal the enemy to open a capture opportunity, but I had to weaken it for the capture attempt to stick. Queue a prolonged battle of me unstacking to deal less damage so I don't kill the enemy, stacking up to heal three units at once, using potions on the enemy when the opportunity closed, and doing quick and basic math to make sure I wasn't going to kill the enemy with my next attack. It was far more engaging than I had expected and I think I approached it at just the right level, if not a level below ideal. Enemy health doesn't affect the capture change. You can also do the imprisming condition multiple times to increase the change to capture them (i.e. it stacks). You could have just healed it multiple times in a row and then imprism it easily.
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Dec 29, 2016 16:18
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Bicyclops posted:(haha please don't hate me, hear me out) What do you expect out of a forum about video games where people have a lot of major mainstream console video game experience? Nobody here is going to judge a game based on its appeal to casual players.
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Dec 29, 2016 16:22
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VideoGames posted:I am now downloading the update to Bloodborne. Wisdom
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Dec 29, 2016 16:48
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Snak posted:The problem with lowering the difficulty is that is would just make the game lovely. If the game were "easier", you could get through it just by spamming R1. Everyone would do this. 90% of players. People would be like "this game is a repetitive bore-fest. The gameplay of forcing you to learn different tactics and how to use them effectively IS the game. Turn-based souls would be the worst turn-based RPG ever. It's okay if souls games aren't for you. People like different things. The solution is not to make those things try to appeal to everyone. Snak posted:It would be bad for the game. People would think the game was shittier. It would get worse reviews, and it would sell less. It would take developement time away from making the good part of the game good to make a shittier version of the game so that people who aren't interested in the challenge, the core element of the game can experience... what, the graphics? Quoting this because it is objectively correct.
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Dec 29, 2016 16:48
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Is there not a thread for the new season of Telltale Games' Walking Dead? That series is amazing and I loved seeing discussion of why people made the choices they did.
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Dec 29, 2016 16:52
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Dec 29, 2016 16:54
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Teriyaki Koinku posted:Is there not a thread for the new season of Telltale Games' Walking Dead? That series is amazing and I loved seeing discussion of why people made the choices they did. Season 2 kinda sucked rear end so I'm sure people are waiting to buy it for now. Is the first EVO game any good Corn?
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Dec 29, 2016 17:02
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it's got oldschool jrpg combat and grind, sort of, except it's also not very hard and the writing is pretty good at times. i'd say if you don't mind dated dragon quest style combat then it's worth checking out thanks bro
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Dec 29, 2016 17:04
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All of this discussion about BB mechanics is interesting to me. I cut my teeth on Dark Souks and have played all three of them and Demons since. I have not played BB but I would like to think I can weigh in on this situation. I didn't read any manuals I just went into the game and with some internet sleuthing when I got stuck I figured the mechanics. But I've played more RPGs than I can count so I had an understanding of what should be possible and with on-screen prompts and all the glowing orange marks in the Undeas Asylum, I figured it out quickly. Now, I know nothing about sports and I'm curious how games like FIFA, Madden, etc explain the mechanics and rules of those games. Do they present the controls in terms of "B performs a sports action" and "Y performs this other sports action?". If so I would be at a loss. Would I get angry at the game? Hopefully not because I think those games are operating on an assumption that people playing them understand the sport being played in there videogame. That's fair because most people are raised playing sports (I realize I am a minority here, I spent time in the woods and my parents cut cable to save money). With my sports consideration out of the way, is it fair that the Souls games have tutorials that can be skipped/easily missed? I think so! These games are not intended to be someone's first attempt at an RPG. They embrace their challenge and obtuseness. They're aimed at people who don't want to be spoon fed a tutorial and then be lead through the game from point to point. If you don't think the game did enough to explain how to play, that's a fine opinion, but the soul of these games is NOT telling the player what to do. The game world isn't friendly and that finds its way into everything about the game. Embrace it for what it is and don't lament that you struggled to use an item or that you have to equip a weapon because you weren't told explicitly how to do that.
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Dec 29, 2016 17:06
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corn in the bible posted:it's got oldschool jrpg combat and grind, sort of, except it's also not very hard and the writing is pretty good at times. i'd say if you don't mind dated dragon quest style combat then it's worth checking out If you don't crop out the emulator menus you might get arrested
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Dec 29, 2016 17:09
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Sports games hover the button over your head at all times so you know exactly what to hit and when
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Dec 29, 2016 17:13
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Help Im Alive posted:If you don't crop out the emulator menus you might get arrested emulation isnt illegal by itself you know
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Dec 29, 2016 17:15
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Help Im Alive posted:If you don't crop out the emulator menus you might get arrested by the fun police maybe
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Dec 29, 2016 17:15
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Snak posted:It would be bad for the game. People would think the game was shittier. I think it's already been pretty proven that gamers will throw out and deny any negative review at launch anyway because we're all loving idiots for hype
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Dec 29, 2016 17:16
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 anyway all the friendly amphibians got eaten by bugs, rip
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Dec 29, 2016 17:16
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Snak posted:It would be bad for the game. People would think the game was shittier. It would get worse reviews, and it would sell less. It would take developement time away from making the good part of the game good to make a shittier version of the game so that people who aren't interested in the challenge, the core element of the game can experience... what, the graphics? Agree to disagree then I don't think any of those things would happen
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Dec 29, 2016 17:19
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Most sports games since the rise of the simulationist approach are incredibly obtuse for people who aren't already familiar with the sport and it's only been in the past few years that designers have gone back to thinking "Maybe we should try to be more user-friendly"
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Dec 29, 2016 17:20
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Andrast posted:Enemy health doesn't affect the capture change. You can also do the imprisming condition multiple times to increase the change to capture them (i.e. it stacks). You could have just healed it multiple times in a row and then imprism it easily. Son of a bitch. Mr E posted:Season 2 kinda sucked rear end so I'm sure people are waiting to buy it for now. I think this season is alright so far. It's nice that they released 40% of the game at once, and while I felt interest slipping just a little towards the end I perked right up at the end of episode 2. One thing that Telltale obviously spent a lot of time thinking about is how to use Clementine. You, the player, very likely have your own memories of Clem and your own expectations for how to treat her, but the character you are controlling sees her in a relative vacuum. It presents choices like "Do you stay with the family that's all new to the player but who have been with the character forever, or do you go with the competent 13 year old girl who the player is very familiar with but the character doesn't know from Adam." Season 2 was pretty rough because everything happens around the main character and you are dependent on others while being forced to solve all of their problems for them. This season has, imo, better motivations to propel the action and puts you back in a role like Lee from season 1. My wife loves the TT games so we usually get them day 1, but I don't blame people for holding out for the discount in a few months.
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Dec 29, 2016 17:22
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I bought and played Demon's Souls way back before the Souls craze started. but I hardly got further than like ... the third or fourth level, and that was mostly just co-oping with an Internet friend and not really getting it it took all the way until Bloodborne for me to get sucked into it and play it until I got it and I've gone back and played the rerelease of Dark Souls 2 and DS3 and it's got to be my favorite series now. sometimes you've got to just beat your head on something until it makes sense and if it doesn't, don't call it a bad game when it's a whole phenomenon. e: also lol at needing someone to say "weapons don't work unless you equip them!"
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