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I like to call the blue one rumble and the red one frenzy but I honestly don't care what the hell you call em I've noticed that British people tend to go the opposite because they grew up with the Marvel comic more than they did the cartoon. I remember getting poo poo years and years ago for saying the G1 cartoon was way better than the comic and the G1 comic was total butt British people also grew up playing the shittiest, most garbage games imaginable on the ZX Spectrum and Amiga instead of things like the NES and SNES so what I'm saying is I'm really glad I didn't grow up in the UK Well, at least the Genesis\Mega Drive was really good and people owned a lot of them over there, but even as a Sega fanboy, I can't pretend that the Master System was all that good God, it must suck to be British.
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Dec 29, 2016 18:10
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I hated parts of the G1 British comic. Like that one issue we got over here with some dumb kid making friends with Jazz. The art looked like rear end. I'll take G1 US comic 10 times out of 10.
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Dec 29, 2016 18:14
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Gammatron 64 posted:British people also grew up playing the shittiest, most garbage games imaginable on the ZX Spectrum and Amiga instead of things like the NES and SNES so what I'm saying is I'm really glad I didn't grow up in the UK Uh... you know we had the NES and SNES too..?
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Dec 29, 2016 18:24
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The_Doctor posted:Uh... you know we had the NES and SNES too..? Yeah I know, they just didn't sell very well and weren't nearly as big because Nintendo kinda botched the whole Europe thing, they were really expensive and microcomputers and games for them were wicked cheap. Like, the US had the Master System but it was kind of a huge failure here while it was enormous in Brazil. The Mega Drive sold great in the US and Europe, but actually didn't do very well in Japan and the PC Engine was the 2nd most popular console. The Saturn bombed here, but it did really well in Japan. I dunno, I think regional stuff like that is really kind of interesting. There are a lot of things that are really popular in certain countries but weren't nearly as successful elsewhere. I think that kinda thing is sorta neat. GET IN THE ROBOT fucked around with this message at 18:37 on Dec 29, 2016 |
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Dec 29, 2016 18:31
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TFRazorsaw posted:"I think you underestimate the depths of my pettiness" deserves to go down in fandom history as one of the most emblematic lines spoken by a particular character. It really is just so perfect, and that Megatron moment will never not just... so perfectly sum up Megatron in most of his incarnations  Although my interpretation of that event was that it wasn't Starscream's plan, it was Windblades. And Starscream is just going along with it because 1. He's petty as gently caress and 2. He legitimately doesn't know what the gently caress else to do. Fact is, they need a Titan on the ground, there's only so much regular Transformers can do against Cityformers. Even if they could win the day, and, if every Transformer on Cybertron fought like in the old days when everyone had to be a soldier, I'm sure they could win the day... The losses would be astronomical, millions would likely die or be injured far past repairs. And all for what? So that everyone can turn on him as the scapegoat? I think it's also neat because it highlights that while Windblade can act as though she has worries about Optimus and his leadership, she has a devious underhanded nature to when the situation calls for it. It's the old "No atheist's in fox holes" statement except more like "There aren't any super moral transformers when an entire planet is under siege."
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Dec 29, 2016 18:41
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Gammatron 64 posted:I like to call the blue one rumble and the red one frenzy but I honestly don't care what the hell you call em As a British person, Frenzy is red and Rumble is blue and gently caress you Takara for packaging Rumble with that piece of poo poo nobody cares about Buzzsaw instead of Laserbeak.
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Dec 29, 2016 18:41
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The_Doctor posted:Uh... you know we had the NES and SNES too..? Everyone knows childhood in the UK is terrible.
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Dec 29, 2016 18:41
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History Comes Inside! posted:As a British person, Frenzy is red and Rumble is blue and gently caress you Takara for packaging Rumble with that piece of poo poo nobody cares about Buzzsaw instead of Laserbeak. Maybe it was a mistake that Rumble was blue on the cartoon, but a part of me thinks it was very deliberate. Notice how Buzzsaw and Frenzy very, very rarely show up in the cartoon, and Soundwave mainly just uses Rumble, Laserbeak and Ravage? Well, Soundwave came packaged with Buzzsaw and Ravage came packaged with Rum, er, Fren, uh, the red guy, so if you wanted to get Soundwave, Ravage, plus the bird and little robot man who usually appeared on the show, you had to buy all three sets. If Soundwave mainly used the yellow bird and the red guy in the cartoon, why would kids want to buy the pack with the blue guy and red bird?
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Dec 29, 2016 18:52
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RIB-FIR her pleasure.
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Dec 29, 2016 19:01
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Gammatron 64 posted:Maybe it was a mistake that Rumble was blue on the cartoon, but a part of me thinks it was very deliberate. Notice how Buzzsaw and Frenzy very, very rarely show up in the cartoon, and Soundwave mainly just uses Rumble, Laserbeak and Ravage? Well, Soundwave came packaged with Buzzsaw and Ravage came packaged with Rum, er, Fren, uh, the red guy, so if you wanted to get Soundwave, Ravage, plus the bird and little robot man who usually appeared on the show, you had to buy all three sets. If Soundwave mainly used the yellow bird and the red guy in the cartoon, why would kids want to buy the pack with the blue guy and red bird? Soundwave invented how cable channels are packaged
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Dec 29, 2016 19:14
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Phy posted:Soundwave invented how cable channels are packaged Fiendish, isn't it? Well, Soundwave IS a Decepticon, after all.
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Dec 29, 2016 19:17
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Gammatron 64 posted:Fiendish, isn't it? Well, Soundwave IS a Decepticon, after all. Soundwave superior....Comcast inferior...
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Dec 29, 2016 19:46
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Rhyno posted:Everyone knows childhood in the UK is terrible. Well, it's pretty ok once you grow too big to get sent up chimneys any more.
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Dec 29, 2016 20:05
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Gammatron 64 posted:I remember getting poo poo years and years ago for saying the G1 cartoon was way better than the comic and the G1 comic was total butt And you deserved that poo poo, because the G1 comic was vastly better than the cartoon. Those two "Man of Iron" UK issues they ran in the US comic were incredibly terrible, though. There were some good stories here and there in the UK comic but wow that art was rough.
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Dec 29, 2016 20:17
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The only G1 comic stories I can remember are bits of Target 2006, bits of Matrix Quest and the Unicron saga, and the Dinobots dream story that ran in the annual where they were all asleep, happy and then BRUTALLY MURDERED before revealing it was all a dream
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Dec 29, 2016 20:24
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The "G1 comic superior" thing always sets my teeth on edge because all you needed to enjoy the cartoon was parents who owned a functioning television (99.9% of households) but you had to have money to buy the comic. Most kids are desperately poor and I always wonder "who the heck had enough money to buy that comic along with the toys, etc.?"
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Dec 29, 2016 20:43
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I watched the old G1 show on VHS as a kid, at about around the time when the most of the old G1 comics were dead and buried and G2 had already breathed its last before I learned how to read. VHS lasts longer than pulp paper. Elita-1 has been sitting on top of a plot hook ever since she was first introduced. It'd be nice for it to finally be unfurled.
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Dec 29, 2016 20:45
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Why cookie Rocket posted:The "G1 comic superior" thing always sets my teeth on edge because all you needed to enjoy the cartoon was parents who owned a functioning television (99.9% of households) but you had to have money to buy the comic. Most kids are desperately poor and I always wonder "who the heck had enough money to buy that comic along with the toys, etc.?" That has zero to do with which was better, of course. But to answer the question, I had an allowance and comics cost 75 cents. Later I had a paper route and they cost $1.00. It wasn't much of a chore to keep up with two or three books a month, which is what I did with Transformers and Uncanny X-Men until the former was cancelled and the latter became unreadable thanks to Scott Lobdell. SlothfulCobra posted:I watched the old G1 show on VHS as a kid, at about around the time when the most of the old G1 comics were dead and buried and G2 had already breathed its last before I learned how to read. VHS lasts longer than pulp paper. My numerous deteriorated VHS tapes and my still intact full G1 comic run notwithstanding, this still has nothing to do with the quality of the storytelling work in question. Nobody's talking about accessibility of medium when they compare narratives. Keldroc fucked around with this message at 20:49 on Dec 29, 2016 |
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Dec 29, 2016 20:47
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WickedHate posted:Frenzy is such a red/black name and Rumble is such a blue/purple name.
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Dec 29, 2016 20:59
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Speaking as someone who was an avid follower of the G1 comics, I can tell you that I do not - nor do I see why anyone would - give a gently caress about what colour Frenzy was, and indeed, even though I may have read more of the comic than watched the cartoon, I would innately associate Rumble with being blue, because he is actually memorable in the cartoon, whereas in the comic, although both Rumble and Frenzy are there, they're both just there. At least in the cartoon Rumble is memorably wise-cracking.Why cookie Rocket posted:The "G1 comic superior" thing always sets my teeth on edge because all you needed to enjoy the cartoon was parents who owned a functioning television (99.9% of households) Not in the UK. The cartoon was shown so rarely over here that the vast majority of episodes Britlanders saw as kids would have been on VHS. So that's a fraction of the entire show that was actually released on VHS, multiplied by the fraction that your parents would buy for you, at something like £10 for 2-3 episodes. Imagine being a fan of a show that has dozens of episodes per series (yes, we call seasons "series" in the UK) yet you've only seen at most a half-dozen of them, and one of them is "The Girl Who Loved Powerglide" (I know it could be a lot worse, as well). But the comic came out every week or two, so it was consistently available. Indeed, even if it hadn't been vastly superior to the cartoon, it would probably still be remembered more fondly just because it was available.
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Dec 29, 2016 21:12
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Gammatron 64 posted:Maybe it was a mistake that Rumble was blue on the cartoon, but a part of me thinks it was very deliberate. Notice how Buzzsaw and Frenzy very, very rarely show up in the cartoon, and Soundwave mainly just uses Rumble, Laserbeak and Ravage? Well, Soundwave came packaged with Buzzsaw and Ravage came packaged with Rum, er, Fren, uh, the red guy, so if you wanted to get Soundwave, Ravage, plus the bird and little robot man who usually appeared on the show, you had to buy all three sets. If Soundwave mainly used the yellow bird and the red guy in the cartoon, why would kids want to buy the pack with the blue guy and red bird? I have said this before. Great minds, etc. Why cookie Rocket posted:The "G1 comic superior" thing always sets my teeth on edge because all you needed to enjoy the cartoon was parents who owned a functioning television (99.9% of households) but you had to have money to buy the comic. Most kids are desperately poor and I always wonder "who the heck had enough money to buy that comic along with the toys, etc.?" I missed half of the G1 show because my dad traded off carpooling duties with a coworker every other day... which meant that since we only had one car and my mom wouldn't leave my siblings and me home alone (in her defense, she was being a responsible adult) but also required use of the car during the day, meant that I was in the car picking up my dad and coworker every other day during Transformers Time (4:30 PM) I assume that two-parter with Optimus Prime not being dead anymore turned out okay? I had friends who would let me borrow the comics, though. And I'm enough of an iconoclast that when I see people dig in their heels about the way things were when we were little I just have to go the other way. The entire concept of "fandom" makes me cringe. I've still been brainwashed by 80's cartoons to buy transforming robot toys, though, and Transformers fiction exists To Sell Toys, so... I guess Hasbro wins.
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Dec 29, 2016 21:17
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Marmaduke! posted:
G1 was technically before my time (I was born the tail end of the 80s so didn't really give a poo poo about anything other than shapes and colours until the early 90s) but I had a boatload of hand me down toys and tapes of 80s poo poo from a spoiled friend of the family because we were poor as gently caress. Before Beast Wars I never even thought Transformers was on tv, as far as childhood me was aware it was just this huge collection of VHS tape shows. I watched arrival from cybertron so many times the tape snapped.
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Dec 29, 2016 21:22
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Soooooo you wanna rumble with Rumble, eh?!?!
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Dec 29, 2016 21:39
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Keldroc posted:My numerous deteriorated VHS tapes and my still intact full G1 comic run notwithstanding, this still has nothing to do with the quality of the storytelling work in question. Nobody's talking about accessibility of medium when they compare narratives. Except the storytelling in the old Marvel comics was butt, especially when Bob Budiansky was doing them and completely loathed his job. The old G1 cartoon is stupid and lighthearted and is actually pretty funny sometimes. The comics in comparison were really dark and dreary and the characters had very little characterization, at least in Budiansky's stuff. Of course, a big part of the problem with the G1 comics was that a 12-issue per year comic wasn't really the best format for toy advertisements, because it couldn't keep up with the toyline and new characters kept getting constantly introduced and then killed off. And no, being much darker and violent than the cartoon (sans the movie of course), doesn't really make it better, more adult or less stupid. Reminder that in the comics, Optimus Prime killed himself over a video game and they copied his brain on to a floppy disk. And before he did that, he spent most of his time as a severed head at Shockwave's base. I'm sorry, but the Marvel G1 comic just fuckin' sucks for the first 50 issues or so, then Simon Furman takes over and then it's just okay. The G.I. Joe comics were a lot better in my opinion, because even though that was also based on a toyline, it typically revolved around the same cast of characters throughout its run, like Snake Eyes, Scarlett, Hawk, Cobra Commander, Destro, the Baroness, Zartan and so on. This was helped by the fact that most of these people got multiple toys throughout the toyline's run, so rather than say, totally retiring people like Duke or Snake Eyes, they just started wearing a new outfit. And there were a few characters that Larry Hama just kept using anyway even though they hadn't gotten a new toy - most notably Scarlett, who didn't get an updated figure for an entire decade. Also, Larry Hama actually liked doing his job unlike Bob Budiansky. And he was a veteran to boot, so the book was both a satire of America and the military while also paradoxically having a deep fondness for it. Granted, I don't have a lot of nostalgia for the G1 comics - I would find random back issues as a kid, but I have more nostalgia for them than I do the old Marvel Joe comics which I first read in college and I can firmly say they are infinitely better.
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Dec 29, 2016 21:41
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I collected both the Transformers and G.I. Joe comics as a kid, and had complete runs of both (including all the spinoffs and related miniseries) that I foolishly sold about 15 years ago, before major nostalgia for both properties hit. The Transformers comic was always bad, and surprisingly bleak and violent. There were constantly huge body counts, and very few of the characters had much in the way of personalities. The art was always terrible until Andy Wildman at the very end. I agree that Simon Furman was a better writer than Budiansky, but he still seemed to have contempt for the characters, and for having to write a Transformers comic book in the first place. And under Larry Hama, G.I. Joe was boring for the first two years, but then got REALLY good. Like Gammatron 64 said, Hama stuck with a core cast of Joes and Cobras, but focused on what was obviously the most interesting to him -- the characters who served together in Vietnam, the ninja stuff, the Cobra power struggles. I'm rereading some of the Classic G.I. Joe volumes now, and it's hilarious how many new characters on both sides randomly show up, refer to themselves by name, tell everyone their specialty, and are never seen again. I'd say from #21 ("Silent Interlude") to #100, the comic was definitely good far more often than it wasn't, and sometimes even great.
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Dec 29, 2016 21:52
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ShaneMacGowansTeeth posted:I'm genuinely intrigued as to why Carcer can't or won't transform than another loving excursion to the functionist era to Roberts can show his "look I used to work in politics, look at the parallels I'm drawing" chops. Also, Starscream sticking an entire armada (and Devastator) on allies when he's being besieged by undead Titans is such a loving dick move I think she's keenly aware she might get canceled again, though, which is a real bummer. Meanwhile Roberts is just farting about.
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Dec 29, 2016 21:53
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The best satire is with genuine love for the original.Gammatron 64 posted:Although I guess that's the case for Beast Machines too but ahhh I'm just gonna ignore that one I like Beast Machines!  When I was like, four, I got it on VHS and it was my only exposure to the Beast Era.
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Dec 29, 2016 22:02
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Hearing Bob talk about his work on the comics was hilarious. He really didn't (and still doesn't) give A poo poo. It was just another gig for him. Seeing him break people's hearts as they asked him about motivations and intentions when defining characters was priceless. Basically what I'm saying is Bob Budianski deserves a cabinet seat.
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Dec 29, 2016 22:04
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MP Inferno's transformation is pretty good.
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Dec 29, 2016 22:18
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Spiderdrake posted:Meanwhile Roberts is just farting about. I could just empty quote this but everything since The Not Knowing aka The Trip To Necroworld has been, well not good. The heavy handed Scavengers two parter, the godawful love triangle and the completely botched resolution which meant absolutely nothing three issues later & all of the Skids stuff to step up a Deus Ex Machina in The Dying Of The Light which in turn went nowhere have been headscratching and barely tolerable. The Dying Of The Light was just actively bad as 15 Autobots vs hundreds of Decepticons sees what, only Ravage and Skids cark it? Bullshit. And then when given a relatively fresh slate to start with the launch of Lost Light we... go right back to the Functionist stuff for reasons. I genuinely like Roberts as a writer but holy poo poo have the last dozen or so issues been slogs with a few bright spots in amongst the abject crap
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Dec 29, 2016 22:20
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My big problems with Marvel G1(both American and UK, as well as the 3 or 4 different "G2" continuations they have) are pretty much the same I have with the main IDW continuity; 1. Transformers actually transforming or using any of their gimmicks are almost completely irrelevant, Budiansky, Furman, and Roberts all treat Cybertron Cybertronians as just being regular people(albeit 20 feet tall and made of metal) for the most part(albeit people with almost none of the interesting traits humans have, so they mostly end up as completely flat characters) 2. Transformers end up being ridiculously easy to kill and characters die way too often with little fanfare(I'm of the camp that even the weakest Transformer should be all but unkillable, so when one does die it's both rare and surprising), makes the idea that they've been having a war for millions of years feel absolutely ridiculous 3. Pretty much everything involving Earth and Humans ends up being miserable to read and full of boring assholes(not helped that most of IDW's writers seem to be grade A misanthropes)
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Dec 29, 2016 22:22
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Yeah I mean the comics are obviously better than the cartoon from a writing perspective, I just think that it's ok to accept the cartoon as the Most G1 because of its wider accessibility. Also, the comic was way worse about some things, specifically the total lack of humor (which I think a dash of is near-mandatory given the fish-out-of-water premise), and it was way more transparent about the "your old toys are dead, go buy these new ones" thing. I mean, the TV show would've done that if it wasn't prevented by animation lead time, but the end result is that the narrative flow of the comics feels really disjointed. But I am like 5 MPs behind and just preordered that 3P Bludgeon though so it's pretty clear which medium has wormed its way deeper into my brain.
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Dec 29, 2016 22:39
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EthanSteele posted:MP Inferno's transformation is pretty good.
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Dec 29, 2016 22:40
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drrockso20 posted:1. Transformers actually transforming or using any of their gimmicks are almost completely irrelevant, Budiansky, Furman, and Roberts all treat Cybertron Cybertronians as just being regular people(albeit 20 feet tall and made of metal) for the most part(albeit people with almost none of the interesting traits humans have, so they mostly end up as completely flat characters) IDW mainly seems to use transformation culturally(the functionists etc.) or as infiltration, the latter of which stopped being relevant ages ago.
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Dec 29, 2016 22:42
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drrockso20 posted:2. Transformers end up being ridiculously easy to kill and characters die way too often with little fanfare(I'm of the camp that even the weakest Transformer should be all but unkillable, so when one does die it's both rare and surprising), makes the idea that they've been having a war for millions of years feel absolutely ridiculous This. A million loving times this. That's why it was so shocking to see dead Autobots like Prowl, Wheeljack, Ironhide, etc and then to see Prime die. That poo poo hit me really hard as a kid. I'll admit that I cried when Prime died.
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Dec 29, 2016 22:45
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I like comics with transformers who turn into earth stuff but I also dislike comics when transformers deal with humans. Tough tastes to reconcile.
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Dec 29, 2016 22:47
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Big Bad Voodoo Lou posted:I collected both the Transformers and G.I. Joe comics as a kid, and had complete runs of both (including all the spinoffs and related miniseries) that I foolishly sold about 15 years ago, before major nostalgia for both properties hit. Yep. Issue #21 was really good and I remember another awesome issue where Snake Eyes infiltrates this Cobra building and loving murders everyone like a slasher villain. It was awesome. Granted, the G.I. Joe comic mainly focused on ninja stuff and Cobra stuff, and I know people get sick of Snake Eyes and Storm Shadow like they get sick of Wolverine, but man... Wolverine actually was super loving awesome in the 70's and 80's X-Men comics before he was played out. Same with Snake Eyes. And Cobra is literally the best part of G.I. Joe, and even early on, writers like Larry Hama noticed this and most G.I. Joe stuff is more about Cobra than the Joes themselves. The comic book version of Cobra is also the best Cobra, because they're really not some vaguely foreign enemy, but full on domestic terrorists led by a shady used car dealer who wants to overthrow the government and take over. And Destro is Sean Connery in an iron mask in it. I can pretty safely say that the G.I. Joe comics are overall better than the cartoon, but I like the cartoon too, because it has one thing the comics lack, and that's Shipwreck. Shipwreck owns. TheDK posted:Hearing Bob talk about his work on the comics was hilarious. He really didn't (and still doesn't) give A poo poo. It was just another gig for him. Yeah. The G1 comics are also kind of unique in Transformers fiction, because it's some of the only Transformers fiction where the robots actually act like robots. Like, beep boop that is illogical robots. In the G1 cartoon and pretty much everything else since then, they were basically written like big metal humans with over the top personality quirks. The exception of course, is that in a lot of the Japanese Transformers anime, most characters are bland as gently caress and have no personalities beyond "Justice and heroism!!" Pretty much the only times the comic characterizations superseded the cartoon ones in the modern era were for Grimlock and Shockwave. And usually it's just Shockwave, because most of the time, Grimlock is still an oaf who speaks in the third person. People just liked Shockwave being an evil Mr. Spock, I guess. Oh, and the whole Primus \ Unicron mythology stuff originates in the G1 comics too, and honestly I've gotten kinda sick of all the overblown mystical, semi-religious stuff. Just bring back the Quintessons instead.
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Dec 29, 2016 22:50
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pubic works project posted:This. A million loving times this. That's why it was so shocking to see dead Autobots like Prowl, Wheeljack, Ironhide, etc and then to see Prime die. That poo poo hit me really hard as a kid. I'll admit that I cried when Prime died. I mean, I agree with the main point, but aside from Prime the deaths in the movie were incredibly casual. Shocking but only in the sense that it wasn't expected of a kid's cartoon, and the movie was using the clearing of old product as a way to up the stakes.
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Dec 29, 2016 22:51
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Made a random stop and found the new comic style redeco of RID Drift so I grabbed it up. It's an already great mode and this paint job is pretty excellent.
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Dec 29, 2016 22:57
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drrockso20 posted:2. Transformers end up being ridiculously easy to kill and characters die way too often with little fanfare(I'm of the camp that even the weakest Transformer should be all but unkillable, so when one does die it's both rare and surprising), makes the idea that they've been having a war for millions of years feel absolutely ridiculous I don't agree with that. Transformers were taken out of action for long periods fairly regularly, like when Underbase Starscream wiped out about 50 pre-movie Autobots and Decepticons. But even then most of them weren't killed, they just took a lot of effort to be repaired. The comics did have a habit of saying things like "the Autobots are all dead" (after Shockwave's first appearance) or "An Autobot WILL die this issue!" (Ratchet sacrificing himself to take out Megatron), but these were some original 80s post-truths. They liked faking out deaths as well, I think both Megatron and Optimus Prime had similar stories where the Predacons hunted them down and killed them (but oh no, it was a sham, again!). And that time Optimus Prime died? Didn't take long til he returned, did it? Marmaduke! fucked around with this message at 23:05 on Dec 29, 2016 |
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Dec 29, 2016 23:03
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