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Doc Morbid posted:All I know about PMCs, I learned from Metal Gear Solid. That's a reliable source, right? Their commercials use less CGI, but other than that, it's pretty spot on. Perhaps slightly fewer cow robots as well.
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Dec 29, 2016 16:03
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Dimebags Brain posted:I don't understand the dummies in this thread that need more motivation than PIRATE TREASURE which is objectively the coolest goal in the entire Uncharted series. I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm definitely still along for the ride. Just...less interested in the actual plot now that it's been neatly condensed. Still, there's another third of the game for it to pull something more interesting again, and the gameplay and scenery remain superb. Nevermind how impressive it is that the ways they keep moving the goalposts haven't gotten stale. Less invested doesn't mean not invested. Aerdan posted:I get the hate for Sam's betrayal, but...come on, betrayal has been a central theme throughout this game and there's been foreshadowing that maybe Sam is a lying douchebag. (I do think Naughty Dog's layering it on a bit too thickly, though.) That's kind of the point. I think it would have been more interesting to upend the theme. To have the Drake brothers succeed because they're the only ones not to betray each other, despite all the incredibly obvious hinting that it would happen. I wanted to be on the edge of my seat waiting for that pivotal moment near the end where we'd see whether Sam would turn when given a chance, and then he'd just be at Nate's back without hesitation, to show a growth of character from the older brother that kept skipping out on his sibling and leaving him to fend for himself. But then after all the "hey! hey! betrayal! hey!" the betrayal actually happens, and it does so early. Playing straight on a theme that blatant just ends up disappointing, at least for me. But, as I said above, we've still got a good amount of game for it to turn it around. Hell, with the feeling that they've already blown their load on betrayal (first Nate->Elena, then Sam->Nate, and of course the inevitable Rafe<->Nadine), they could use the remaining game to set up something else even more interesting to blindside me with!  The ultimate bait-and-switch.
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Dec 29, 2016 17:10
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Doc Morbid posted:All I know about PMCs, I learned from Metal Gear Solid. That's a reliable source, right? Shoreline is actually an Outer Haven front.
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Dec 29, 2016 17:21
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PhazonLink posted:So how's Nate going to beat The Sorrow without a revival pill? I know Chip said he estimates like 6 or 7 more episodes but I didn't expect all of them would cover a single boss fight
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Dec 29, 2016 17:26
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My take is that Rafe shot Nate to punish Sam for running out on him. We've already seen multiple points in the story where Rafe expresses his frustration through violence and aggression (killing the guard, lashing out at Sully before the auction) and this is just him doing it again. It galls him so much that Sam has been making more progress without Rafe than with him, so now that Rafe is in a position of power he's going to take away something Sam cares about and enjoy watching Sam squirm. It's petty, childish, vindictive and will no doubt bite Rafe in the rear end later, but it's very much in character. Besides, Rafe may be counting on Sam's obsession with the treasure to keep Sam from doing anything until the treasure is found. He knows Sam wants to see the treasure as much as Rafe does, so he's not likely to do anything to derail the search until they actually find what they're looking for. And once the treasure is found? Sam will probably try something, but Rafe is expecting it and figures Nadine will take care of it.
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Dec 29, 2016 18:02
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I just take it simply that Sam is so beat up emotionally that there isn't really any chance for him to fight them, when if he killed Sam infront of Nate, Nate would go full Rambo
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Dec 29, 2016 18:07
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Felinoid posted:That's kind of the point. I think it would have been more interesting to upend the theme. To have the Drake brothers succeed because they're the only ones not to betray each other, despite all the incredibly obvious hinting that it would happen. I wanted to be on the edge of my seat waiting for that pivotal moment near the end where we'd see whether Sam would turn when given a chance, and then he'd just be at Nate's back without hesitation, to show a growth of character from the older brother that kept skipping out on his sibling and leaving him to fend for himself. But then after all the "hey! hey! betrayal! hey!" the betrayal actually happens, and it does so early. Playing straight on a theme that blatant just ends up disappointing, at least for me. Well, I don't really see Sam's betrayal as a "betrayal" in the traditional sense. It would be if he had been working for Rafe the whole time, but Rafe has been legitimately trying to kill him from the beginning and Sam has a good share of Shoreline kills on his record. Even when Rafe reveals the truth to Nate, he's still holding a gun on Sam and he's very pissed at Nate and Sully being involved. The way I see it, Sam has been operating independently ever since he met Nate at the harbor. Rafe did get him out of jail, but they were completely stuck beyond tracking down the second St. Dismas cross. Sam let his lust for the treasure get ahead of him and abandoned Rafe and Nadine, cooking up a story about Alcazar to get his brother to help him get the treasure for himself. He wasn't working for Rafe and had no intentions to hand over the treasure to him if he found it. Maybe he didn't even want the millions and just wanted to be proven right after all this time.
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Dec 29, 2016 18:34
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Nadine was Sam all along
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Dec 29, 2016 18:37
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I'm a lot less invested now that I know that there's no menacing drug lord to fear anymore. This treasure better have been stolen by vampiric cyborg frost giants to make up for that.
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Dec 29, 2016 18:38
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chiasaur11 posted:It's about the stupidest thing he could do, too. Hostage? Hostage would be good. It'd be leverage, which he obviously needs to keep Sam in line since the guy betrayed him once already. Why is there an assumption that Rafe is a 100% logical actor? The guy's a petty child who throws tantrums and tries to just brute force his way through tasks with his inherited fortune instead of having any kind of brilliance of his own. Sure, it might make more sense to kill Sam and have Nate help him. Or it might make more sense to just have both of them help him at gunpoint and shoot them later. But Rafe isn't a robot making perfect choices. He's getting mad and shooting the (admittedly very dangerous) thorn in his side and just taking the emotionally wrecked ally who tried to double-cross him and making him useful until he can throw him off a cliff.
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Dec 29, 2016 18:41
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Felinoid posted:I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm definitely still along for the ride. Just...less interested in the actual plot now that it's been neatly condensed. Still, there's another third of the game for it to pull something more interesting again, and the gameplay and scenery remain superb. Nevermind how impressive it is that the ways they keep moving the goalposts haven't gotten stale. Less invested doesn't mean not invested. i think one of the pitfalls i've seen again and again when following a let's play is the time between updates is time where you start writing your own version of the game, and naturally, whatever you come up with in your head is likely going to appeal to your specific tastes better then the game will. without really intending to, you're setting up the game to disappoint you now, video game stories don't have the most sterling reputation but i, personally, try to give things a chance and wait until the end before i get into the 'things would have been better if they did x' stage.
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Dec 29, 2016 20:27
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chitoryu12 posted:Well, I don't really see Sam's betrayal as a "betrayal" in the traditional sense. It would be if he had been working for Rafe the whole time, but Rafe has been legitimately trying to kill him from the beginning and Sam has a good share of Shoreline kills on his record. Even when Rafe reveals the truth to Nate, he's still holding a gun on Sam and he's very pissed at Nate and Sully being involved. Yeah, Sam betrayed Rafe, not Nate. He just strung Nate along. Nate is pissed off at Sam because he thought he was doing something virtuous (helping save Sam's life) when instead he was an unwitting accomplice to something less honorable (dicking over Rafe).
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Dec 29, 2016 20:32
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AriadneThread posted:i think one of the pitfalls i've seen again and again when following a let's play is the time between updates is time where you start writing your own version of the game, and naturally, whatever you come up with in your head is likely going to appeal to your specific tastes better then the game will. without really intending to, you're setting up the game to disappoint you I can't believe Nate and Rafe haven't made out yet, 0/10
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Dec 29, 2016 20:32
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I'd consider lying to your brother and tricking him into going on an adventure with you when he'd rather stay home with his wife a form of betrayal.
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Dec 29, 2016 20:40
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MachuPikacchu posted:Yeah, Sam betrayed Rafe, not Nate. He just strung Nate along. Nate is pissed off at Sam because he thought he was doing something virtuous (helping save Sam's life) when instead he was an unwitting accomplice to something less honorable (dicking over Rafe). I dunno, dicking over Rafe seems like the most honorable thing I've ever seen Nate partake in, however unwittingly.
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Dec 29, 2016 20:41
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Really Pants posted:I can't believe Nate and Rafe haven't made out yet, 0/10 my ghost can not rest until every game is gay
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Dec 29, 2016 20:44
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Is Nate being swept down the river on his way to Mount Doom now? Obviously creepy rock is where the weird stuff originates (or maybe not, maybe it's too obvious for Naughty Dog), and I'm getting antsy to see what's in store for the Drake boys. Also, thanks to the title of this video, there are some interesting suggested videos alongside it. My favorite title is 'Big hot rear end groped by American. What is this man doing? Its definitely going to enjoy you!! [PART 1]'. And no, I didn't bother to see what the man was doing.
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Dec 29, 2016 21:53
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Kai Tave posted:e; like in Uncharted 2 Flynn betrays you in the prologue and leaves you to get locked up in a Turkish prison, to say nothing of all the other poo poo he does working as the right-hand man of a war criminal. Nadine's role in this game is basically just Rafe's muscle. Nadine is legitimately a For Real war criminal
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Dec 29, 2016 22:01
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Please do not bring For Real things into character evaluations, or we'll have to take a look at Nate's by now four digit head count on various murder charges for the umpteenth time
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Dec 29, 2016 22:44
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Detective Thompson posted:Is Nate being swept down the river on his way to Mount Doom now? Obviously creepy rock is where the weird stuff originates (or maybe not, maybe it's too obvious for Naughty Dog), and I'm getting antsy to see what's in store for the Drake boys. The creepy rock is, I believe, a volcano that partially collapsed rather than the typical full-caldera collapse. I have no clue if that happens often in real geology, but given how it seems to have a cause rather than "just "creepy-looking rock" I'm going to guess it was either modeled off an actual land feature, or someone on the landscaping art team is REALLY good.
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Dec 29, 2016 22:50
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HenryEx posted:Please do not bring For Real things into character evaluations, or we'll have to take a look at Nate's by now four digit head count on various murder charges for the umpteenth time I meant via the narrative of her mercenary company admitting to war crimes in their casual convo, not the gameplay
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Dec 29, 2016 22:58
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Bruceski posted:The creepy rock is, I believe, a volcano that partially collapsed rather than the typical full-caldera collapse. I have no clue if that happens often in real geology, but given how it seems to have a cause rather than "just "creepy-looking rock" I'm going to guess it was either modeled off an actual land feature, or someone on the landscaping art team is REALLY good. Look, some pirates had a little too much grog (and gunpowder) along on their mountain hiking trip.
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Dec 29, 2016 23:00
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AriadneThread posted:my ghost can not rest until every game is gay Uncharted 4 expansion may be standalone but I'm still counting it if gay
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Dec 29, 2016 23:00
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Zomborgon posted:Look, some pirates had a little too much grog (and gunpowder) along on their mountain hiking trip. God I can't wait for the next update
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Dec 30, 2016 00:24
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chitoryu12 posted:Well, I don't really see Sam's betrayal as a "betrayal" in the traditional sense. It would be if he had been working for Rafe the whole time, but Rafe has been legitimately trying to kill him from the beginning and Sam has a good share of Shoreline kills on his record. Even when Rafe reveals the truth to Nate, he's still holding a gun on Sam and he's very pissed at Nate and Sully being involved. So because he's betraying someone else harder, it's not really a betrayal to Nate? Sorry, I don't buy that. Sam swooped in and has all but ruined Nate's life based on a lie. How hard he hosed over Rafe only has anything to do with that in the sense that he's also managed to get Rafe and all of Shoreline pissed enough at Nate in the process to want him dead regardless of who ends up getting the treasure. AriadneThread posted:i think one of the pitfalls i've seen again and again when following a let's play is the time between updates is time where you start writing your own version of the game, and naturally, whatever you come up with in your head is likely going to appeal to your specific tastes better then the game will. without really intending to, you're setting up the game to disappoint you Not just the time between updates and but also the fact that you're not holding the controller. When you're playing a game, your attention is divided between the plot and trying to actually play the game well, and look out for collectables and all sorts of other things. We don't have to dodge gunfire and grenades and look for opportunities for sweet flying punches. Even half an hour at a time is more than enough idle time to way over-analyze a plot. Also, in case you didn't notice, I said the very same thing about giving it a chance right in that post you quoted. How well the game had presented people just being people, especially toward the start of the game, may have given me high hopes, but just because it didn't turn out the way I thought doesn't mean I'm not going to wait and see what it actually has to say.
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Dec 30, 2016 02:04
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Xinder posted:I'd consider lying to your brother and tricking him into going on an adventure with you when he'd rather stay home with his wife a form of betrayal. Yeah but it seems like people are trying to pass off the twist as "Oh yawn, yet another betrayal twist" when it's actually a somewhat unusual variant: rather than the ally betraying the protagonist, the ally was on the protagonist's side the whole time and betrayed the bad guy, and was just dishonest about how he got there. Felinoid posted:So because he's betraying someone else harder, it's not really a betrayal to Nate? Sorry, I don't buy that. Sam swooped in and has all but ruined Nate's life based on a lie. How hard he hosed over Rafe only has anything to do with that in the sense that he's also managed to get Rafe and all of Shoreline pissed enough at Nate in the process to want him dead regardless of who ends up getting the treasure. I certainly don't think it makes it sting any less, but Sam was still technically on Nate's side the whole time. Had Sam been outright working for Rafe from the start and just pretending to be shot at to string his brother along, I don't think the guy would deserve a redemption arc. Instead of being a villain, he's just an rear end in a top hat.
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Dec 30, 2016 02:14
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Oil of Paris posted:Nadine is legitimately a For Real war criminal As someone else pointed out along with myself, PMCs both fictional and real are almost universally shady-to-scummy, but they've definitely played the tone with Nadine differently than they did with Lazarovich in UC2. Aside from the Madagascar chase scene most of Nate's encounters with Shoreline have been in remote areas, ruins, and I guess a manor full of avowed criminals once. In UC2 your first encounter with Lazarovich's forces are in the middle of a war-torn city that Lazarovich is in the process of bombing the poo poo out of. Then later he sends tanks to demolish the Sherpa village. I'm not saying Nadine is a saint but compared to Uncharted's usual stable of villains they're absolutely working to make her as "reasonable" an antagonist as the series has ever had, head of a mercenary army or no.
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Dec 30, 2016 02:38
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Funky Valentine posted:Shoreline is actually an Outer Haven front. I remember hearing somewhere that Uncharted 4 takes place in the year 2014
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Dec 30, 2016 02:42
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AriadneThread posted:my ghost can not rest until every game is gay Could you get a nap in if every game was bi?
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Dec 30, 2016 03:38
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I think Sam doesn't even think of his lie as a betrayal, he's been pretty insistent this whole time that their kicking rad adventure is way better than Nate's domestic life and he probably thinks he helped Nate out. Though I do hope whenever they sit down and hash this out that Sam explains why we never dropped Nate a line for the two years he was out of prison.
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Dec 30, 2016 04:05
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Sam has not been concerned over Elena one bit, it's always been Sully who's brought it up and been concerned. Even after Elena finds out the next part Sam's all "Hey look at this cool adventure we're on!"
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Dec 30, 2016 04:14
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bobjr posted:Sam has not been concerned over Elena one bit, it's always been Sully who's brought it up and been concerned. Even after Elena finds out the next part Sam's all "Hey look at this cool adventure we're on!" Which I think kinda makes sense. Last time Sam and Nate were together, they were a pair of young thieves going to pretty great lengths to find treasure. Nate's behavior in the first Uncharted indicates that he's basically operated on the wrong side of the law his whole life, but he managed to find something else with Elena. Something happy enough that he was willing to hang up his hat and settle down, only being drawn back in to help his long lost brother avoid getting his throat cut by a crazy drug lord. Sam, meanwhile, stagnated. 15 years in a Panamanian prison doesn't do too much to help you figure out everything wrong with your life (except maybe "How not to end up in a Panamanian prison again"). He's had over a decade to stew over his loss. While Nate has had the opportunity to change, Sam is still the same grungy thief he was in his youth and may have even gotten a little rougher around the edges. And of course, Sam can't understand it. He never got the opportunity to fall in love or realize that there was more to life than treasure hunting and getting into fistfights and shootouts. He literally can't understand Nate on Nate's level because only one of them has evolved.
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Dec 30, 2016 05:00
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I don't like the section of Sam breaking out being a lie. It wasn't really framed as Sam telling a story, it seemed like just a flashback. The game hadn't been hinting at all at an unreliable narrator bit up to this point, and breaking it out now seems to cheapen everything. What if Nate's home life was actually horrible? What if that section where they broke out of the orphanage was actually Nate and Sam robbing a Dairy Queen? What if instead of a salvage business, Nate was running a scam to make his money? It worked back in UC3 because they were playing up that unreliable narrator angle throughout between the drugs and mirages, if Nate just suddenly had a singular hallucination of Sully getting shot and nothing else, it'd feel just as cheap.
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Dec 30, 2016 05:26
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I felt like the fact that you play the prison break out as Sam is implying that it's what Nate imagines it being, he imagined it being loving ridiculous because that's what he's used to at this point. poo poo now I can't help but think Sam forced Nate to have the story told via Dungeon and Dragons or something of the like, and Nate with his amazing luck rolls nothing but 20s.
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Dec 30, 2016 05:32
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It doesn't really cheapen anything in my opinion, that scene being both from Sam's perspective and in flashback is more than enough to separate it from the rest of the game's narrative.
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Dec 30, 2016 05:40
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I think Rafe chose to shoot Nate over Sam because he figures that even if Sam doesn't help him at all, it's only a matter of time before the treasure is found and Rafe wants the satisfaction of taking something that Sam thinks he doesn't deserve, before killing him. At this point the Drakes are running out of usefulness for Rafe, so either he lets them go or kills them and at this point Rafe isn't going to spare anyone.
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Dec 30, 2016 05:46
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Felinoid posted:Not just the time between updates and but also the fact that you're not holding the controller. When you're playing a game, your attention is divided between the plot and trying to actually play the game well, and look out for collectables and all sorts of other things. We don't have to dodge gunfire and grenades and look for opportunities for sweet flying punches. Even half an hour at a time is more than enough idle time to way over-analyze a plot. you did, your comment prompted mine in a more 'observation of a general trend' then a statement directed at you, i didn't make that clear enough, i'm sorry
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Dec 30, 2016 07:43
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How can people say Sam didn't betray Nate? The entire adventure is a lie! He even guilted Nate by making it appear that he would just go on alone. making him still believe his life was on the line. Sam is pathetic and obsessed and believes that Rafe doesn't "Deserve" the treasure. He may not have conventionally betrayed him, but he drat well lied to him and ruined his life. Everything was founded on a lie, a lie that Nate has to suffer for. Also, I was fine with the Nadine thing this episode until she was up on her feet after being punched through the floor, not because of the punch, but because they all just fell and hit rock. There is no amount of training in the world that makes you tanky enough to get up after falling through the floor that distance to rock. And there was no reason that the scene couldn't have played out the same way, and if anything, further solidified Sam as the grub he is, being willing to pull the gun in a two on one situation, and in fact, completely being willing to execute Nadine even knowing he'd just die when his hostage was dead. But I mean it is the second encounter. In the first Nate got destroyed, in the second he did better, in the third he'll win. She's very clearly the arc-boss. Rafe is just... The guy who wants the treasure. Honestly he's hardly a villain beyond his rage outbursts. And frankly Nate's group has been provoking those. He's someone who wants to prove that he's more than just the wealth his parents left him. He's just not a Drake, so he's not that skilled.
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Dec 30, 2016 07:59
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Sam's an horrible person. Rafe's an horrible person who is 100% guaranteed to get his comeuppance. Nadine is an horrible person who is increasingly without consequence for her shittiness to the point where she's probably getting away with everything. Nate's an horrible person who is 100% guaranteed to get away with everything. Sully is a good person. Elena is also a good person who is married to a man-child and deserves better (aka Sully). The problem is that the game frames Sam and Nate as likeable when they're pretty much not. It's hard to care about Sam at all because of the whole sudden brother thing. The villains are always meant to be interchangeable but protagonists in sequels aren't. Sully's like my boy Colonel Campbell, just with a bit worse voice acting and less "remember that time in Uncharted 2 that he was an AI". Josuke Higashikata fucked around with this message at 09:30 on Dec 30, 2016 |
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Dec 30, 2016 09:28
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Josuke Higashikata posted:Sam's an horrible person. Rafe's an horrible person who is 100% guaranteed to get his comeuppance. Nadine is an horrible person who is increasingly without consequence for her shittiness to the point where she's probably getting away with everything. Nate's an horrible person who is 100% guaranteed to get away with everything. Sully is a good person. Elena is also a good person who is married to a man-child and deserves better (aka Sully). The problem is that the game frames Sam and Nate as likeable when they're pretty much not. It's hard to care about Sam at all because of the whole sudden brother thing. The villains are always meant to be interchangeable but protagonists in sequels aren't. ... IS Sam supposed to be likable? I know he's been 'helping' but the moment we met the guy I didn't like him. Like, beyond him ruining a good thing for Nate, the two times we saw him when we were playing as "Younger Nate" he just seemed like that terrible family member who doesn't have his life together in the worst ways. He looked like a balding druggy (Well... Looks) And everything about him seemed to convey "You are supposed to think this man is the slimiest son of a bitch."
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Dec 30, 2016 09:38
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