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Waffles Inc. posted:The blind dude and the dude from the very very beginning of TFA are the most interesting looks into the force in all the movies and I'd love to have seen more of their ideology on film They already made that movie. It's called A New Hope. "Guardian of the Whills" is the term for a Jedi without mutant powers - which is what Luke was back in 1978. The subtext of A New Hope has always been that the elderly Obiwan is a mere illusionist with no actual powers. Like the Wizard Of Oz, he uses ventriloquism and sleight of hand to give confidence to credulous youths. It's a "Dumbo's feather" narrative. Lucas introduced midichlorians after audiences badly misinterpreted the Star Wars films and uncritically accepted that Dumbo's feather has objectively-existing and scientifically-probable antigravity powers. Lisa: I could claim that this rock keeps tigers away. Homer: Oh, how does it work? Lisa: It doesn't work. Homer: Uh-huh. Lisa: It's just a stupid rock. Homer: Uh-huh. Lisa: But I don't see any tigers around, do you? Homer: Lisa, I want to buy your rock. But Chirrut is a very different character from Max Von Sydow's Luke-worshipping resistance character. Chirrut doesn't wait for a Jedi to save them. When the temple is destroyed, he takes to the streets. The dark joke at the end of Rogue One is that Bail is, like Von Sydow, working to bring back the Jedi Order. After all these poor people sacrifice themselves, he's like "finally! Now the real heroes can take over!"
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Dec 29, 2016 20:41
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The idea that the Jedi were forgotten about by the OT is a bit of a myth. All the relevant OT lines suggest the exact opposite, in fact. Even Luke, living in a backwater with an uncle specifically trying to prevent him learning about all that, knows; his first reaction to "I was a Jedi Knight, same as your father" isn't "What's a Jedi?", it's "No he wasn't." In fact, every time the Jedi are mentioned it's taken for granted that everyone in the conversation knows what's being talked about. Han's objection, as mentioned, is specifically to the religious aspects; he doesn't believe there's some all-powerful Force holding the universe together, but doesn't dispute the "simple tricks and nonsense".
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Dec 29, 2016 20:43
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Yeah but Obi Wan actually did some stuff, like distracting the stormtroopers or sensing the destruction of alderaan
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Dec 29, 2016 20:45
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He cuts that dude's arm off and later raptures himself out of his clothes after battling a robot man to a standstill. Also Darth Vader chokes a dude out with his mind.
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Dec 29, 2016 20:54
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I wonder how Sheev explained the Senate floor being all hosed up to the Senate.
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Dec 29, 2016 21:31
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RBA Starblade posted:I wonder how Sheev explained the Senate floor being all hosed up to the Senate. I imagine he'd just say it was part of the violent coup by Mace and Yoda that left him horribly disfigured.
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Dec 29, 2016 21:46
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RBA Starblade posted:I wonder how Sheev explained the Senate floor being all hosed up to the Senate. Jedi assassination attempt.
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Dec 29, 2016 21:46
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I don't want to split hairs or anything here but what Mace and Yoda were doing was actually quite literally a violent coup
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Dec 29, 2016 21:48
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Shbobdb posted:Read the whole discussion. Looks like a family guy character if you ask me.
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Dec 29, 2016 21:58
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There is nothing approaching payot on Watto's face, I don't understand where he's seeing that. I guess maybe those whiskers on the upper left?
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Dec 29, 2016 22:01
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Waffles Inc. posted:I don't want to split hairs or anything here but what Mace and Yoda were doing was actually quite literally a violent coup Don't worry, you're not splitting hairs.
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Dec 29, 2016 22:07
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His hat is actually part of the head of the little droid from Episode 1.
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Dec 29, 2016 22:10
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Tenzarin posted:Looks like a family guy character if you ask me. Family guy is 2d animation that looks nothing like that.
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Dec 29, 2016 22:14
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Waffles Inc. posted:I don't want to split hairs or anything here but what Mace and Yoda were doing was actually quite literally a violent coup Oh poo poo I didn't know obama posted here
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Dec 29, 2016 22:34
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Lord Hydronium posted:The idea that the Jedi were forgotten about by the OT is a bit of a myth. All the relevant OT lines suggest the exact opposite, in fact. Even Luke, living in a backwater with an uncle specifically trying to prevent him learning about all that, knows; his first reaction to "I was a Jedi Knight, same as your father" isn't "What's a Jedi?", it's "No he wasn't." In fact, every time the Jedi are mentioned it's taken for granted that everyone in the conversation knows what's being talked about. Han's objection, as mentioned, is specifically to the religious aspects; he doesn't believe there's some all-powerful Force holding the universe together, but doesn't dispute the "simple tricks and nonsense". I agree, but on top of that I always kind of assumed the Jedi were a pretty tiny fraction of the Galaxy's population. An average Joe could probably live a full life and never have a Jedi even travel to his planetary system, much less ever see one in person. There's also not much reason to think they had much media presence. The public wouldn't be privy to many of their missions, and we see from the prequels that they're a pretty insular bunch by nature. It's like when you hear irl about Buddhist Monks on the other side of the world who can stop breathing for six hours and be fine or something like that. You don't doubt that they exist, and maybe they can do some stuff most people can't do though meditation and all that, but you're pretty sure the holding their breath for six hours thing is bullshit.
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Dec 29, 2016 22:47
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I'd imagine there were a lot of people who pretended to be Jedi and were cut down hilariously as frauds.
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Dec 29, 2016 23:03
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theflyingexecutive posted:Yeah but Obi Wan actually did some stuff, like distracting the stormtroopers or sensing the destruction of alderaan You don't need to be psychic in order to have a bad feeling (about this). And Yoda in Episode 3 shows how Obiwan did the disappearing trick: he jumped down a garbage chute and left his cloak behind. Everything else is just basic audio trickery. He howls like a dragon, talks his way out of a search, makes a noise like a thrown rock, etc. In a broader sense, he uses theatricality and creative storytelling to seduce Luke towards the Jedi path. A New Hope's major theme being the power of audio is why Chirrut exists, as a character.
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Dec 29, 2016 23:34
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The black robot man chokes a guy out with his mind.
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Dec 29, 2016 23:36
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Waffles Inc. posted:I don't want to split hairs or anything here but what Mace and Yoda were doing was actually quite literally a violent coup Same way Vader tossing the Emperor down the shaft was a violent coup. ruddiger posted:I actually realized I got the quote wrong after I posted, but the point I was trying to make was that Yoda and Ben were throwing double talk at Luke on dagobah, forcing him to draw his own conclusions. That they didn't correct him when he mentions killing Vader shows that. They were very specifically talking him down a path of self-control and non-violence, Yoda especially. SuperMechagodzilla posted:A New Hope's major theme being the power of audio is why Chirrut exists, as a character. I can't tell if you're joking or not - are you saying 'the power of audio' is A New Hope's major theme?? gfarrell80 fucked around with this message at 23:46 on Dec 29, 2016 |
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Dec 29, 2016 23:37
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Is the power of audio the reason why we can hear sound in the vacuum of space in the galaxy far far away?
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Dec 29, 2016 23:54
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I dunno, if R2 had just played an audio message from Leia I don't think Luke would have been as interested...
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Dec 30, 2016 00:01
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:
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Dec 30, 2016 00:24
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:You don't need to be psychic in order to have a bad feeling (about this). Frankly, you can make a decent case for Chirrut being the most powerful master of the Light Side (which I guess is officially a thing now as of Ep VII) that we've yet seen in the films, and he did it with a low midiclorian count and without surrendering his attachments to people he cared about. Sure, he can't perform minor acts of telekinesis, but such things are insignificant next to the power of the Force. Not quite as embarrassing to the Old Republic Jedi as having a Sith Lord put his clone army on your credit card, knowing you'll sign for it rather than admit to having been blindsided, and be proven completely correct -- but then again, what could be Crion fucked around with this message at 00:46 on Dec 30, 2016 |
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Dec 30, 2016 00:40
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does anyone get Jedi mind tricked beats storm troopers and the pig guards? there's got to be more I'm not remembering
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Dec 30, 2016 00:52
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mastershakeman posted:does anyone get Jedi mind tricked beats storm troopers and the pig guards? there's got to be more I'm not remembering pig guards didn't get mind tricked, they got force choked or disabled, somehow. Bib Fortuna and Boss Nass got mind tricked, along with random stormtrooper Daniel Craig in TFA.
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Dec 30, 2016 00:54
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It was pretty hosed up when Lucas admitted to basing Watto off his close personal friend Spielberg in the DVD commentary.
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Dec 30, 2016 00:55
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mastershakeman posted:does anyone get Jedi mind tricked beats storm troopers and the pig guards? there's got to be more I'm not remembering Boss Nass. Elan Sleazebaggano, the death stick dealer. Bib Fortuna. A bunch of people in Clone Wars.
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Dec 30, 2016 01:08
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Elan Sleazebaganno saw the lightsaber and thought it best to go along with things.
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Dec 30, 2016 01:26
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The Boss Nass mind trick scene is great because later on in the film Amidala has to literally beg on bended knee for his help. So either Qui-Gon just didnt do it to humble amidala or you end up with an implication that the mind trick only lets you influence people into doing things theyd like to or are already considering doing.
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Dec 30, 2016 01:54
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Barudak posted:The Boss Nass mind trick scene is great because later on in the film Amidala has to literally beg on bended knee for his help. So either Qui-Gon just didnt do it to humble amidala or you end up with an implication that the mind trick only lets you influence people into doing things theyd like to or are already considering doing. AndyElusive posted:Is the power of audio the reason why we can hear sound in the vacuum of space in the galaxy far far away? 
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Dec 30, 2016 02:00
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...or Boss Nass didn't want to deal with Jar Jar's poo poo, again, so told him to go take these scruffy offworlders in his shittiest sub and hope they all die somewhere else, gently caress off Jar Jar - Boss Nass, 1999
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Dec 30, 2016 02:00
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I want everyone to just imagine the sitcom that is Boss Nas having to work with Jar Jar Binks in an official capacity after the election.
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Dec 30, 2016 02:05
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gfarrell80 posted:I can't tell if you're joking or not - are you saying 'the power of audio' is A New Hope's major theme? Yes, although it's more specifically a McLuhanist film about 'cool' media, oral culture, etc. It's more generally about media as prosthetic enhancement (and vice-versa). Hence Lucas' fixation on prosthetic limbs. The sword is an extension of the arm, the car is an extension of the leg, etc. The trash compactor scene centres around a telephone conversation. Leia's tiny holographic message is unmistakably a television image. Obiwan' power is speech. Luke listens for the target, while Vader's computer limits awareness of his surroundings. That's what the film's about.
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Dec 30, 2016 02:11
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The prequel trilogy is like this extended meditation on the dangers of celibacy and sexual repression and then you have TFA where like all the characters are asexual and sex barely exists wtf?? Is rogue 1 any better about that?
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Dec 30, 2016 02:35
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Rogue One isn't deliberately sexual but it does contain a tentacle monster and at least two people who had sex at least once (also jyn's parents  )
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Dec 30, 2016 02:46
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The anti-natalist vibe of TFA is almost respectable but in the hands of Disney and JJ it comes off more as creepy imo
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Dec 30, 2016 02:53
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Yes, although it's more specifically a McLuhanist film about 'cool' media, oral culture, etc. It's more generally about media as prosthetic enhancement (and vice-versa). Hence Lucas' fixation on prosthetic limbs. The sword is an extension of the arm, the car is an extension of the leg, etc. So it is not about, oh, I dunno, technology being used to destroy planets (cold war/nuclear weapon allegory), the dangers of bureaucracy and power leading normal men to make inhuman decisions, defiance of technology and turning to human feeling, the hubris of technological power, combined with a compelling coming of age tale/hero's journey? Do you have any idea how to connect what you see on a film to ideas that matter? Also, going back to the Ben Kenobi 'kill vader' thing... It really wouldn't give our character Luke much agency or interest if he didn't make the decision to renounce violence himself, would it? If Ben and Yoda said 'you must face him and you cannot kill him', Luke would not be as heroic a figure when he tossed his lightsaber aside at the climax of Jedi. To reference a similar but shittier movie, this is like the Oracle in the Matrix telling Neo he is not the one. He has to walk the path himself. You fuckers do not understand Star Wars at all.
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Dec 30, 2016 02:57
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Also TFA is very much not a millennial movie. If we're going to talk in these asinine generational terms it's much more about GEn X looking at the boomer attitude of 'sex and children are good' and going 'no thanks'
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Dec 30, 2016 02:57
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gfarrell80 posted:So it is not about, oh, I dunno, technology being used to destroy planets (cold war/nuclear weapon allegory), the dangers of bureaucracy and power leading normal men to make inhuman decisions, defiance of technology and turning to human feeling, the hubris of technological power, combined with a compelling coming of age tale/hero's journey? star wars means all of those things too, smg didn't mention them because people know that star wars is about all those things as well star wars is allowed to be about many things, friend, including McLuhanist media and oral culture, the vietnam war, sexual liberation, fascism, and your bad posting
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Dec 30, 2016 03:12
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serious prequel question: what is its reception like internationally? I mean like, in terms of popularity, influence, critical opinion, especially in non anglo countries
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Dec 30, 2016 03:17
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