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for starters, unless you check that chart in the "miscellany" section of the tutorial or look it up on the internet, you have no way of knowing which zodiac signs interact with which other ones
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Dec 31, 2016 06:24
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Like, is the fact that Fire 3 is slower and costs more MP than Fire an obscure gameplay mechanic? Where is the line supposed to be drawn, really.
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Dec 31, 2016 06:25
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Reiterpallasch posted:for starters, unless you check that chart in the "miscellany" section of the tutorial or look it up on the internet, you have no way of knowing which zodiac signs interact with which other ones Ok, so unless you look at things in the game, then you won't understand what's going on. Got it.
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Dec 31, 2016 06:29
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i understand that this is a very subjective argument, and that people have diverse opinions which should all be considered without prejudice, but one possible place you could draw the line is somewhere around "when nothing in the game interface tells the player what it is, what it does, how to trigger it, and also making effective use of it literally requires you to know the birthdays of the game's major antagonists"
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Dec 31, 2016 06:29
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Is it an obscure gameplay mechanic that 108 Gems boosts elements and protects against some statuses? At this point I don't know what the average player thinks.
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Dec 31, 2016 06:31
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Reiterpallasch posted:i understand that this is a very subjective argument, and that people have diverse opinions which should all be considered without prejudice, but one possible place you could draw the line is somewhere around "when nothing in the game interface tells the player what it is, what it does, how to trigger it, and also making effective use of it literally requires you to know the birthdays of the game's major antagonists" I don't have a dog in this race, but the game shows you the Zodiac sign of any unit you care to check and bringing up the help text on that tells you its relationships with the other Zodiac signs.
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Dec 31, 2016 06:31
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gigglefeimer posted:Is it an obscure gameplay mechanic that 108 Gems boosts elements and protects against some statuses? At this point I don't know what the average player thinks. so...close...
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Dec 31, 2016 06:32
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AlphaKretin posted:I don't have a dog in this race, but the game shows you the Zodiac sign of any unit you care to check and bringing up the help text on that tells you its relationships with the other Zodiac signs. poo poo, really? edit: he's right, thought it only shows you X and Os with no indication of what that means, at least in the wotl version edit edit: OKAY FINE GOD LEAVE ME ALONE Reiterpallasch fucked around with this message at 06:49 on Dec 31, 2016 |
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Dec 31, 2016 06:33
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Wait, do you yourself not know you can press Select on literally everything?
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Dec 31, 2016 06:33
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Reiterpallasch posted:poo poo, really?  E: Wait, LPArchive doesn't do https? If that doesn't show I got it from here, Ctrl+F "zodiac" and it's the pic above the last result.
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Dec 31, 2016 06:36
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gigglefeimer posted:Ok, so unless you look at things in the game, then you won't understand what's going on. Got it. I agree with reit on this one. Zodiac is there but it can be ignored by the average player and might also be the dumbest game mechanic in FFT. The best I can say about it is that it adds some more variance to the random battle set up but that effort probably should have gone towards more interesting and varied enemy job/skill setup and better AI.
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Dec 31, 2016 06:36
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it doesn't exactly come up a lot once you have the bmg committed to memory
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Dec 31, 2016 06:36
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"Basic mechanics" are mechanics a player is going to be expected to understand and learn through the course of normal gameplay and which are reasonably expected to pick up either due to the game teaching you them or due to them being blatantly and bluntly obvious. A lot of final Fantasy games have the problem of having a ton of obscure or esoteric mechanics which are never taught to the player because to be honest most FF games are a tire fire of design and get by largely on being absurdly and incredibly easy. There are things players can notice but only if they're paying closer attention to a game then most people will ever do. That is part of why gameplay design is designing around teaching and implementing those designs. A lot of FF games fail at this because they're basically thrown-together mechanics that work just well enough not to break poo poo.
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Dec 31, 2016 06:36
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ImpAtom posted:"Basic mechanics" are mechanics a player is going to be expected to understand and learn through the course of normal gameplay and which are reasonably expected to pick up either due to the game teaching you them or due to them being blatantly and bluntly obvious. A lot of final Fantasy games have the problem of having a ton of obscure or esoteric mechanics which are never taught to the player because to be honest most FF games are a tire fire of design and get by largely on being absurdly and incredibly easy. There are things players can notice but only if they're paying closer attention to a game then most people will ever do. That is part of why gameplay design is designing around teaching and implementing those designs. A lot of FF games fail at this because they're basically thrown-together mechanics that work just well enough not to break poo poo. poo poo, so "raising the number next to the sword icon to raise my punch damage" is a hidden mechanic. My mind is being blown tonight.
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Dec 31, 2016 06:41
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The elemental wheel is pretty universal to rpg's anyway while the zodiac interactions aren't exactly intuitive unless you're already into astrology.
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Dec 31, 2016 06:42
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you have a habit of picking really really bad hyperbolic examples, considering that the fact that unarmed damage is quadratic in PA is both very important and never explained
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Dec 31, 2016 06:43
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Reiterpallasch posted:you have a habit of picking really really bad hyperbolic examples, considering that the fact that unarmed damage is quadratic in PA is both very important and never explained Quadratic? Get that nerd poo poo outta here. And what's PA?
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Dec 31, 2016 06:44
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Pig attenuation, very important when casting the most important status spell in Final Fantasy.
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Dec 31, 2016 06:46
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gigglefeimer posted:poo poo, so "raising the number next to the sword icon to raise my punch damage" is a hidden mechanic. My mind is being blown tonight. You're being pretty dumb, yes. Bravery as a mechanic has a lot of obscured or hidden things. Bravery being low improving the change of Treasure Hunter succeeding for example is not something most players are going to understand. The fact that Bravery can be permanently altered through the use of specific moves is again, something most players are not going to notice because by and large abilities that raise or lower stats tend not to have permanent effects. Brave and Faith have so many obscured effects that there's probably no single thing in the game that people ask more about. You're insisting all this stuff is clearly explained when not even most die-hard FFT fans figured out all the mechanics themselves but instead shared a pool of information from other players gathering information from sources outside the game. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 06:50 on Dec 31, 2016 |
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Dec 31, 2016 06:47
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Good god you are being obtuse
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Dec 31, 2016 06:48
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ImpAtom posted:You're being pretty dumb, yes. Who said anything about Brave? I was talking about my Sword Number
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Dec 31, 2016 06:49
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gigglefeimer posted:And what's PA? physical attack, which the game sometimes calls pa, but once in a while it also calls it <sword symbol> because 
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Dec 31, 2016 06:50
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At this point, I really just want to know one thing: gigglefeimer, why is your dog in this fight "FFT 1.3 is not hard you just need to pay basic attention to Very Simple Things" and why do you seemingly refuse to accept that it's widely considered punishingly (and, in many circles, tediously) difficult? Why not take the fact that you apparently mastered it with ease as a badge of honor?
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Dec 31, 2016 06:59
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gigglefeimer posted:Who said anything about Brave? I was talking about my Sword Number Brave is a Sword Number, but only when using a katana or knight sword or no weapon at all.
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Dec 31, 2016 07:05
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people hit things with katanas???
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Dec 31, 2016 07:09
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Sometimes two of them!
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Dec 31, 2016 07:10
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Cape Cod Crab Chip posted:At this point, I really just want to know one thing: gigglefeimer, why is your dog in this fight "FFT 1.3 is not hard you just need to pay basic attention to Very Simple Things" and why do you seemingly refuse to accept that it's widely considered punishingly (and, in many circles, tediously) difficult? Why not take the fact that you apparently mastered it with ease as a badge of honor? The funniest thing is that gigglefeimer, like most FF fans, probably didn't actually figure the bulk of FFT's mechanics out on his own, but from guides and FAQs written by other players. (And most of those FAQs are the end result of players working together to get all the information.) Like man, I remember when FFT came out. Especially with the hilariously poo poo translation people had almost no idea of how the mechanics worked and it was largely through group efforts that people spaded it out and even then there were bunches of misinformation that clung around for days. That's the way it was with a lot of games. The well-documented information about mechanics didn't spring out of thin air. Especially when the game came out we were going off this:  as the best possible documentation.
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Dec 31, 2016 07:11
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When I thought about raising my brave, I got a good feeling.
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Dec 31, 2016 07:12
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Are there any major issues with the Steam ports of FF7 and 9? Considering picking up both since I'd like to play through 7 again at some point and I'm honestly not sure if I ever finished 9. (Think that and 4 are the only older numbered ones I haven't played.)
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Dec 31, 2016 07:21
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Zerilan posted:Are there any major issues with the Steam ports of FF7 and 9? Considering picking up both since I'd like to play through 7 again at some point and I'm honestly not sure if I ever finished 9. (Think that and 4 are the only older numbered ones I haven't played.) I can vouch for 9, and I don't think I've heard anything bad about 7 since they patched the proper soundtrack in.
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Dec 31, 2016 07:23
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Zerilan posted:Are there any major issues with the Steam ports of FF7 and 9? Considering picking up both since I'd like to play through 7 again at some point and I'm honestly not sure if I ever finished 9. (Think that and 4 are the only older numbered ones I haven't played.) The only issue with 9 is that it's a port of the mobile version and has some minor annoyances tied to that. However it's still probably the overall best version of the game. The FF7 one is fine though it's lacking the speed up feature of the PS4 port IIRC which sucks.
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Dec 31, 2016 07:24
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Alright, thanks. I'll probably pick up 9 while it's on sale then and maybe get the ps4 port instead of 7 for the speed up feature.
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Dec 31, 2016 07:47
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I've played the FFVII Steam version and old PC version several times. They fixed a bug where Magic Def on armor didn't work or something and they altered some of the script. Other than that, it seems like more or less the same game as on PSX. Also with FFVII PC you get to indulge in the excellent modding community. i still need to get IX on Steam. It looks good.
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Dec 31, 2016 08:11
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Thanks for the recommendations everyone. It seems like most of you are saying to start with FFX so I'll do just that and then maybe check out FFV and FFXII later. Are there any common "I wish I knew this before I started" tips for FFX?
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Dec 31, 2016 08:33
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You should do like I did when I first got into the series and play them all in order because you thought that they had a sequential plot.
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Dec 31, 2016 08:35
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Jack Trades posted:Thanks for the recommendations everyone. It seems like most of you are saying to start with FFX so I'll do just that and then maybe check out FFV and FFXII later. Each of the trials has a special item called the Destruction Sphere that's part of the dungeon, but isn't actually required to complete it. If you're interested in getting a pretty important upgrade lategame (along with some plot), make sure you go through the extra effort and use the destruction sphere, along with getting the item it gives you in each trial for using it. Technically you can do this at endgame, but you get a pretty huge punishment for not doing it the first time you're there.
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Dec 31, 2016 08:41
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Jack Trades posted:Thanks for the recommendations everyone. It seems like most of you are saying to start with FFX so I'll do just that and then maybe check out FFV and FFXII later. play the expert sphere grid unless you really need your hand held in picking specializations for your characs dont be shy about using summons make sure you talk to all the dogs in the first town before you leave make sure you get the hidden orb and hidden treasure in the first puzzle-dungeon in the first town nothing is really missable but the above two things are pretty hard to go back and get if you dont get them at the first opportunity
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Dec 31, 2016 08:42
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Jack Trades posted:Thanks for the recommendations everyone. It seems like most of you are saying to start with FFX so I'll do just that and then maybe check out FFV and FFXII later. Don't worry about keeping your whole party at roughly equal levels, or over-favoring a particular lineup. that's how you should play some RPGs, and it can look like that's how you're supposed to play FFX, but you really don't have to.
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Dec 31, 2016 08:48
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It's actually really easy and a good idea to have everyone perform at least one action in every battle, even if it's just defending. XP doesn't get divided among recipients unlike other games, so you're leaving it on the table if you don't do this.
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Dec 31, 2016 08:54
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Jack Trades posted:Thanks for the recommendations everyone. It seems like most of you are saying to start with FFX so I'll do just that and then maybe check out FFV and FFXII later. your summons are disgustingly broken if you take yuna down a physical fighter's path, like "solo game with ease" broken don't go for the platinum trophy units gain xp only if they took an action in the fight just use gamefaqs for the temple puzzles if you hate them don't go for the platinum trophy don't go for the platinum trophy don't go for the platinum trophy take a step back and digest how relentlessly depressing ffx's cheery polynesian setting is when you think about it don't go for the platinum trophy
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Dec 31, 2016 09:04
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