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I liked that his anchor is his friends now. I always found it weird his relationship with them wasn't enough of an anchor.
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Dec 31, 2016 03:03
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None of them were putting out.
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Dec 31, 2016 03:58
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BrianWilly posted:I'm curious what about the finale specifically bothered you, because I also felt a little weird about it for reasons I can't really explain. Basically that. They're trying to get me on board with "This is the return of Pre-Flashpoint Wally!" Then they rope it into this poo poo where they might as well be telling me to my face "THAT IS GONE YOU CAN'T HAVE IT BACK!" There's some weird disconnect there. It's like they're just doing a post-flashpoint, rebooted Wally but 6 years late. That sounds really, really lovely and bad to me. The draw of this is that he's like the focus point of bringing back the stuff we like, not forgetting it and moving on. That was the loving message with the New 52 Barry series. I am also not a fan of escaping the Speed Force with the power of friendship. What's the point of that entire mechanism, the danger, if it's overcome by having some buds who *barely* remember you? It defeats any actual special purpose in Wally and Linda's relationship, the entire thing this book was focused on for the 5 issues prior. It turns Linda into literally just the woman Wally fancies rather than the person he actually, seriously needs. The entire Lightning Rod concept, something that was the foundation of 15 years of the best Flash stories ever made, is irrelevant now. You could just have him shack up with Lilith now because, go figure, she was his friend when they were kids so that means she can pull him out of the Speed Force too. It's lame and boring and completely counter intuitive to Wally's past and story. Maybe that's why they threw in that brand new Lilith and Wally romance scene. I sure loving hope not but regardless, this felt entirely counter to the premise and the build up. I was hoping they'd build more into that continuity reintroduction rather than move away from it. I was giving them leeway but I guess at this point Wally just will never remember his dead kids now. I guess being able to make pants out of speed force or remember that time Roy Harper showed you his ratty apartment is more important to remember than your children. Two Tone Shoes fucked around with this message at 04:06 on Dec 31, 2016 |
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Dec 31, 2016 03:59
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Preview of the Orlando JLA Atom one-shot http://www.avclub.com/article/ryan-choi-returns-dc-universe-jla-atom-exclusive-p-247794     Adam Cray, BTW http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Adam_Cray_(New_Earth) Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 10:42 on Dec 31, 2016 |
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Dec 31, 2016 10:31
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Two Tone Shoes posted:Basically that. They're trying to get me on board with "This is the return of Pre-Flashpoint Wally!" Then they rope it into this poo poo where they might as well be telling me to my face "THAT IS GONE YOU CAN'T HAVE IT BACK!" There's some weird disconnect there. It's like they're just doing a post-flashpoint, rebooted Wally but 6 years late. That sounds really, really lovely and bad to me. The draw of this is that he's like the focus point of bringing back the stuff we like, not forgetting it and moving on. That was the loving message with the New 52 Barry series. I don't think there was any implication at all that he was transitioning to a post flashpoint character. He's still the same person with the same memories, he was just accepting Linda was not and he'd have to make new memories with her. Superman had a very similar issue recently where he had to accept this earth was his home now so swamp thing could clear him of some condition that was harming the earth.
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Dec 31, 2016 11:41
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greatn posted:I don't think there was any implication at all that he was transitioning to a post flashpoint character. He's still the same person with the same memories, he was just accepting Linda was not and he'd have to make new memories with her. Except Superman still gets to keep his wife and kid whereas Wally doesn't, so the situations aren't comparable at all. Not to mention all the other stuff that sucks.
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Dec 31, 2016 15:36
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Wally's kids sucked and no one likes them.
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Dec 31, 2016 15:51
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Dec 31, 2016 16:03
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greatn posted:Wally's kids sucked and no one likes them. I liked them, certainly more than New 52 Wally and he got a second chance for no good reason. I'm guessing you never read Chain Lightning where Iris is awesome. You're also ignoring the wife part.
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Dec 31, 2016 16:43
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Wallys kids were good until they got aged up and given powers
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Dec 31, 2016 16:53
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I feel like half the reason no one liked them is their costumes were poo poo. This whole thread is gushing over superdad and the struggles of growing up with superpowers in Jon Kent, so I imagine Wally's kids could work just great. Not to mention it would bring back the original, major interracial family in DC. Used to be the only one but I guess Damian qualifies now.
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Dec 31, 2016 17:08
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Doesn't Bruce adopting Cassandra Cain predate all of that?
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Dec 31, 2016 19:06
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Roth posted:Doesn't Bruce adopting Cassandra Cain predate all of that? Didn't he adopt her for like one goddamn issue before he died?
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Dec 31, 2016 19:09
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If that's true then that's beyond lame
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Dec 31, 2016 19:11
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Roth posted:If that's true then that's beyond lame It's funnier that I even said: 
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Dec 31, 2016 19:13
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Roth posted:Doesn't Bruce adopting Cassandra Cain predate all of that? I don't think the situations are even remotely comparable. If we're going by ultra lax definitions like that then Jenni Ognats existed in 1994. I was thinking like actual family unit. Bruce didn't hook up with Lady Shiva and have an interracial daughter, he just brought an interracial person (who was already an adult, iirc? 17 or 18) legally into his family who he didn't really raise. Bruce is less a dad and more a teacher to Cass. Two Tone Shoes fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Dec 31, 2016 |
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Dec 31, 2016 19:26
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Two Tone Shoes posted:I liked them, certainly more than New 52 Wally and he got a second chance for no good reason. I'm guessing you never read Chain Lightning where Iris is awesome. I could take or leave her. A Linda he's having to pursue and win over as an independent character is a lot more interesting than a Linda that's just a cheerleader wife to tell him how great he is and get put in peril occasionally.
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Dec 31, 2016 19:37
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greatn posted:I could take or leave her. A Linda he's having to pursue and win over as an independent character is a lot more interesting than a Linda that's just a cheerleader wife to tell him how great he is and get put in peril occasionally. What Linda are you talking about? Sounds like you only read Johns' run instead. I don't want to redo 15 years of development with worse writers. That's half the reason New 52 Wally bombed so much. But you're right, Lois Lane and Clark should break up. Married people can't be interesting.
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Dec 31, 2016 20:31
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I basically stopped reading after Waid took back over and the comic became all about his stupid aged up kids. Linda has never been a Lois calibur character. I'd read a Lois comic that didn't have Superman in it. I can't say the same for Linda.
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Dec 31, 2016 20:40
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greatn posted:I basically stopped reading after Waid took back over and the comic became all about his stupid aged up kids. It's then immediately ruined right after because turns out the book was all about Lana Lang, who literally no one cares about, and Lois is just in it as her imaginary anxiety produced hallucination. This was of course not revealed in the marketing, which made almost everyone sour on the book immediately because of the bait and switch. Thanks DC!
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Dec 31, 2016 22:50
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I actually have that on my pull list at least until they finish the ultra woman arc. Probably dropping it after.
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Dec 31, 2016 22:53
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lotus circle posted:Lana Lang, who literally no one cares about Nobody who didn't read Greg Pak's Action Comics, aka, a pile of bozos.
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Dec 31, 2016 22:59
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greatn posted:I basically stopped reading after Waid took back over and the comic became all about his stupid aged up kids. Waid's Linda is better than Lois, at least your usual Lois. Significantly more involved in both helping Wally than Lois usually is with Supes. They both had the similar schtick of figuring out the secret evil bad guy's plans but Linda was actually tied to Wally's powers and would go Rambo when the time called for it. I'd agree with you if you just said Johns' Linda, since he either forgot about her or, at times, straight up wrote her out of the story, but I don't know how you read Terminal Velocity, Race Against Time, Hell to Pay or blah blah the list goes on and come to the conclusion she's just a side piece. gently caress without her Wally literally kills himself. There's been plenty of times Lois has been devolved to worse. At their best they operate as very similar characters, only Linda's more significantly entwined with Wally's capabilities than Lois is with Clark's. Then in Waid's return she turned into a magic time scientist which was neat if short lived. I guess Lois does have the advantage of something like 3000 more appearances to rack up good stories, but the stories Linda was in are pretty much all great, since they just coincide with one of the best cape runs in decades. Two Tone Shoes fucked around with this message at 23:16 on Dec 31, 2016 |
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Dec 31, 2016 23:01
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Teenage Fansub posted:Nobody who didn't read Greg Pak's Action Comics, aka, a pile of bozos.
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Dec 31, 2016 23:10
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Everyone realizes Lois is gonna be sucked back outta that Bizarro clone eventually, right?
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Dec 31, 2016 23:14
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Teenage Fansub posted:Everyone realizes Lois is gonna be sucked back outta that Bizarro clone eventually, right? Then they still have to sort out there being two Lois Lanes.
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Dec 31, 2016 23:16
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Rhyno posted:Then they still have to sort out there being two Lois Lanes. I've got a solution. 
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Dec 31, 2016 23:19
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Teenage Fansub posted:I've got a solution. I'd take this over the inevitable merging of the two that we all know will happen if N52 Lois is alive.
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Dec 31, 2016 23:20
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The second most amazing thing about that cover is that it's referencing an explicit Swedish art film https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Am_Curious_(Yellow) That editor must've been a pretty hip 60's dude. edit: 1970. A Mad Men, but for comics episode is playing in my head. Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 23:28 on Dec 31, 2016 |
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Dec 31, 2016 23:24
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lotus circle posted:Well I have good news for you, see DC Rebirth published this Superwoman comic that's all about Lois being a superhero and it has an amazing first issue. You say ruined, I say that was the best thing that could have happened to the series and saved the book for me. I give a legitimate "Thanks DC!" for that one.
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Dec 31, 2016 23:30
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Teenage Fansub posted:Everyone realizes Lois is gonna be sucked back outta that Bizarro clone eventually, right?
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Jan 1, 2017 00:57
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I think the was a scene in Action where Lana confronted Earth 1 Lois that seemed to take place after the Ultrawoman arc so I'm not sure if New 52 Lois is actually coming back.
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Jan 1, 2017 02:52
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There doesn't seem to be much reason to bring N52 Lois back when there is an existing Lois who isn't a horrible person on every conceivable level.
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Jan 1, 2017 02:57
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ImpAtom posted:a horrible person on every conceivable level. Just cause she did't date Clark?
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Jan 1, 2017 03:13
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Teenage Fansub posted:Just cause she did't date Clark? More because she outed him, I believe.
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Jan 1, 2017 03:43
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That's her responsibility as a journalist.
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Jan 1, 2017 03:46
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Gaz-L posted:More because she outed him, I believe. Haha. Oh yeah. That lil' thing.
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Jan 1, 2017 04:04
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greatn posted:That's her responsibility as a journalist. Only if the public's need to know outweighs the harm revealing the secret would cause. It's actually why Ultimate Spider-Man having that arc where Jonah refused to publish Spidey's real name was great, because it shows that journalism is nuanced. Or should be if the journalists are ethical.
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Jan 1, 2017 04:05
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Yes but Spider-Man is a kid and Superman is Superman with super hearing and x-ray vision which the public has a right to know about and his entire family is already dead anyway.
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Jan 1, 2017 04:21
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Teenage Fansub posted:Haha. Oh yeah. That lil' thing. Yeah, Lois outing Clark (and especially the way it was presented) was just absurdly awful. I don't care that she didn't date him but that particular thing and the way they wrote it really just made her look like a complete heel.
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Jan 1, 2017 04:29
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