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If you're going through the trouble to make your game extremely procedural, you might as well reap the rewards of some emergent gameplay.
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Dec 31, 2016 03:12
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Pilchenstein posted:It's possible that the cycle of "players find exploit, forumdads whine about exploit, devs patch exploit" is actually the intended design - Braben was always talking about there being gold rushes that would attract huge swarms of players trying to get rich while they lasted, you can't say he wasn't right. I can say that it helped bring me back to the game. While I had picked it up again a few weeks ago, I was about to put it back down for a while and then heard about 17 Draconis. I went from about 90 million(where I had been at for about a year) to over a billion and finally got an Anaconda. I've been flying around doing mining and getting stuff for engineers. I'm currently getting some stuff for a level 5 upgrade on the FSD and hoping I get some good rolls. I'd be happy getting 45 LY with it and would probably stock up for a trip to Sag A* after I get a decent module.
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Dec 31, 2016 03:34
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Pilchenstein posted:It's possible that the cycle of "players find exploit, forumdads whine about exploit, devs patch exploit" is actually the intended design - Braben was always talking about there being gold rushes that would attract huge swarms of players trying to get rich while they lasted, you can't say he wasn't right. That would be fine, except for the constant use of the word "exploit" and their desire to reinforce its use through dev-posts on the official forums. When you call something an exploit like that, you are saying "you will be banned for engaging in this activity," but then they leave it on the vine. I think this is the actual source of contention: there are players who view these as emergent-gameplay gold rushes from the BGS, while the grognards take FDev at their word and view these as cheats and exploits which players should be banned for getting an unintended advantage over the players who engage in "legitimate" gameplay. FDev has never clarified their position on this, so those in the know double-down on the latest cash cow while others (kind of rightfully) call foul and expect Frontier to act on and patch out the exploit.
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Dec 31, 2016 04:11
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Frontier is like a GM for a paper & pen role playing game watching as the player adventuring party decides killing orcs for copper pieces to afford that +5 Vorpal Blade is for chumps, so they go into alchemy/drug distribution in the elf kingdom. Instead of welcoming the player initiative and seeing where it goes then guiding it appropriately (you know, emergent stuff) the GM chucks a hissy fit about his finely hand crafted game world being used 'incorrectly' and rules the gods have cast a magic spell of compulsion on the players to resume their original quest in the orc sewers, also the town guards take all their income as taxes except for the GM guide level appropriate amount of gold as per some complicated flow chart. "In the first room there are ten orcs, they all roll for initiative, you should roll for initiative too." *slowly rolls one 20 sided die ten times, records all results on graph paper with pencil*
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Dec 31, 2016 06:02
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When is their patch to remove that obnoxious commodity poo poo from upgrades coming out?
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Dec 31, 2016 08:17
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hakimashou posted:When is their patch to remove that obnoxious commodity poo poo from upgrades coming out? Well they're running on Frontier time so
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Dec 31, 2016 08:20
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DancingShade posted:Frontier is like a GM for a paper & pen role playing game watching as the player adventuring party decides killing orcs for copper pieces to afford that +5 Vorpal Blade is for chumps, so they go into alchemy/drug distribution in the elf kingdom. I came to a similar conclusion. Someone at FDev (Sandro) is a gigantic TRPG grog, and basically throwing a fit. This has resulted in FDev tacitly opposing emergent gameplay. Which is really goddamn sad, because things like Drac/Pooptruckers of Sothis/Tun seem to be exactly the gameplay FDev was going for. Instead we have... Really uninspired CGs that I'm almost convinced are as ProcGen as the mission boards. 
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Dec 31, 2016 14:06
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The secret to Elite is: We make our own fun, break the toys we bought irregardless of the manufacturers specifications, warnings and wishes, and whether or not it makes some other nerd kids cry. Especially if it makes them cry.
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Dec 31, 2016 16:15
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Mercurius posted:I think we've had this discussion several times and came to the conclusion that you could add a 0 to every mission payout/trade commodity sale price and money acquisition still wouldn't be fast enough to own more than one tricked out large ship after a month of playing the game normally. Void Destroyer 2, an elite/freelancer/homeworld hybrid does bounties in the most sensible way: percentage of value of the target destroyed + extra payout if it was mission relevant. The more you risk, the bigger the payout. It's even "realistic" for the immersion crowd - nobody sane would ever risk their life and their multi-million ship fighting an Anaconda for a payout that's less than a percent of the cost of that Anaconda - much less what their own ship would cost to replace.
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Dec 31, 2016 16:59
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Does anyone else find it really unsettling when you're headed to a moon around a gas giant, and as you approach the gas giant keeps looming larger and larger meanwhile the relatively closer moon stays as a point-in-the-distance? Gas giants are too big and they creep me out.
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Dec 31, 2016 18:09
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DreadLlama posted:Does anyone else find it really unsettling when you're headed to a moon around a gas giant, and as you approach the gas giant keeps looming larger and larger meanwhile the relatively closer moon stays as a point-in-the-distance?  Sometimes you can see Jupiter looming in the clear sky above you
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Dec 31, 2016 18:30
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DogonCrook posted:I used to reset my save all the time and this really is the fastest way. I would go straight to a viper or cobra, go with the cobra if you want to haul. Find a good system and stick to it for awhile to build rep. Until you have a ship with some decent cargo space smuggling missions pay the most in the hauling genre so you'll want rep. They wont always pop up, so bounty hunt when the board is dry. A cobra handles both tasks pretty well. As far as I could tell thats the only way to pop out of that tedious start in a day or two. Any other ship is going to waste a lot of time. After that specializing isn't such a big deal cause the grind to the next tier is lol one way or the other. Also just got this, trying to follow this advice but not really sure how? How do I find a good system? what is a good system anyway? I've done a couple of missions and could afford an eagle, which seems like it would be better for combat than a sidewinder but I made most of my money doing a couple of crash site rescue missions and I don't think the eagle with it's 2 cargo capacity could do that since the lander takes up 2 itself. I'm having a problem where I take a mission from a station go out and do it then when I come back there is no more missions available, even though when I left there were plenty. Sailing around from station to station randomly takes so long, is there no way to find out in advance if there are any missions there without docking? I tired hanging out at a nav beacon but not much seemed to turn up, and often those that did would die before I could even identify them as being hostile because it seems I need to get absurdly close to a ship for it to be a recognised target? Like I could visually see these ships on my screen but until I slow boated over there and practically rammed myself up their rear end my computers couldn't see them? In the end I identified the friendly police and just followed them around since they seemed to have sensors that wouldn't compare unfavourably to the average late stage diabetics eyesight but then I found they were massively faster than me and as above I often couldn't get to the fight before it was over. It seems if I bought this eagle I would stand a better chance with that, but like I said at the moment 100k of my 130 k came from picking stuff up off planets so I'm not sure I can afford to give up that capability. E: apparently also some missions pay you out in items as well as cash, and if you have insufficient cargo capacity to take the goods you can't accept the mission? I'd happily wave a couple of units of technobabble just to be allowed to do the mission and take the cash. SO if I did get the eagle that would restrict my mission option even futher. Pharnakes fucked around with this message at 20:04 on Dec 31, 2016 |
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Dec 31, 2016 20:01
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Libluini posted:
If you could see Jupiter's magnetosphere it would take up a third of the visible sky. 
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Dec 31, 2016 21:47
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Pharnakes posted:Also just got this, trying to follow this advice but not really sure how? How do I find a good system? what is a good system anyway? I've done a couple of missions and could afford an eagle, which seems like it would be better for combat than a sidewinder but I made most of my money doing a couple of crash site rescue missions and I don't think the eagle with it's 2 cargo capacity could do that since the lander takes up 2 itself. Id say a good start system is one with at least a low res resource extraction site. Bounty hunting there is going to be better. A sidewinder can work because you just need to get a some shots in before it explodes and let the cops draw the aggro. Early ships have to be really specialized so you may want to save up for a seperate eagle. Like a super early build is to d rate everything and get a rated thrusters. Its crazy light pretty cheap and you can fly around quickly to tag ships with bounties and run from them if you gently caress up. There are plenty of builds that are effective for pve, but speed makes the game better because you will do a lot of flying thats mostly pointless, so hauling rear end cuts that sgit down noticeably. Just boost everywhere constantly in every situation. Also never take assasination missions and whatnot. They have never worked 100% and im not sure they ever will. E: i guess you also want to find a system with good outfitting options too, so look for high tech systems. DogonCrook fucked around with this message at 21:53 on Dec 31, 2016 |
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Dec 31, 2016 21:50
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Also i never did it, but finding a yong mart system to start would be worth it. Its a 15% discount on ships and modules. Just open the map click powerplay and find a high tech in yong's territory.
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Dec 31, 2016 22:09
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DogonCrook posted:Also i never did it, but finding a yong mart system to start would be worth it. Its a 15% discount on ships and modules. Just open the map click powerplay and find a high tech in yong's territory. All five of us are homed in Diaguandri as a result. High tech + Yong Discount
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Dec 31, 2016 22:22
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Pretty new to this, been grinding PVE NAV beacon bounties and managed to get myself a cobra iii with 2G multicannons and 1F burst lasers. All gimballed. Would I be better of going for size 2 dumbfire missiles instead of the cannons for Res extraction bounties? Flew to one last time with a wingmate and we got hammered by an asp explorer NPC. Though I didn't realise there was a difference between regular resource extraction points and hazardous ones.
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Dec 31, 2016 22:59
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Dumbfire missiles are great if you really want to win just this one fight. Maybe two. Then you're likely to have ammo problems and need to go rebuy all your missiles.
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Dec 31, 2016 23:33
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Pharnakes posted:Also just got this, trying to follow this advice but not really sure how? How do I find a good system? what is a good system anyway? I've done a couple of missions and could afford an eagle, which seems like it would be better for combat than a sidewinder but I made most of my money doing a couple of crash site rescue missions and I don't think the eagle with it's 2 cargo capacity could do that since the lander takes up 2 itself. Yeah, eagle is not that good for general mission running Pharnakes posted:I'm having a problem where I take a mission from a station go out and do it then when I come back there is no more missions available, even though when I left there were plenty. Sailing around from station to station randomly takes so long, is there no way to find out in advance if there are any missions there without docking? Missions are randomly generated when you open the mission board. When you get to a station and there are no missions available, you simply got a bad rng roll. Log out and switch game modes to get a fresh mission board. Rinse and repeat until you have all the missions you want. Pharnakes posted:I tired hanging out at a nav beacon but not much seemed to turn up, and often those that did would die before I could even identify them as being hostile because it seems I need to get absurdly close to a ship for it to be a recognised target? Like I could visually see these ships on my screen but until I slow boated over there and practically rammed myself up their rear end my computers couldn't see them? In the end I identified the friendly police and just followed them around since they seemed to have sensors that wouldn't compare unfavourably to the average late stage diabetics eyesight but then I found they were massively faster than me and as above I often couldn't get to the fight before it was over. Target the ship and point your nose at it. You can scan from much farther distances. Bind keys for "Target next s hip" and "target next hostile". Pharnakes posted:it seems if I bought this eagle I would stand a better chance with that, but like I said at the moment 100k of my 130 k came from picking stuff up off planets so I'm not sure I can afford to give up that capability. Yeah, it sucks. Once you buy the eagle, you can change mods on outfitting to get more cargo space, but you'll be giving up something else. with this setup, you could have a cargo capacity of 6T and not give up your shield generator.
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Dec 31, 2016 23:47
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The inability to store extra ammo for missiles and guns and stuff in your cargo compartments is shamefully bad. But hey, it makes things more time consuming, so its IN! E: What I've never gotten about ED is -why- they make it a grind fest like this. It isnt a subscription game, it doesnt have pay-to-speed-things-up mechanics, it doesnt sell anything except cosmetic items, cosmetic items for a single-player 1st-person-only game. What's the point? They aren't making any money off it, since people playing longer does not mean more money for them. Its such a weird strange game and strange business model. The best I can come up with is that it is some kind of bizarre public service enterprise for really spergy and autistic people. hakimashou fucked around with this message at 23:58 on Dec 31, 2016 |
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Dec 31, 2016 23:55
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ED is the video game of choice for people who buy $500 HOTAS systems, VR and simulator chairs for their space trucking with less engaging gameplay than an actual trucking simulator. Of course there is a high amount of  and terrible design decisions made by the kind of people who get upset over model trains and elf kingdom miniature battles.
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Jan 1, 2017 00:02
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Krycek posted:Yeah, eagle is not that good for general mission running In the end I bought the eagle and since it had enough jump range sailed down to the goon system from the op. In Capricorni I found some res sites, but when I flew over to them and sat on them for 10 minutes or so I didn't find any ships with bounties. A couple of times ship's where fighting each other but none of them had bounties so I didn't join in at all. I notice the system is Anarchy, does this mean that there are no bounties applied because there is no law? On the other hand when I read the E:D wiki about res sites it seemed to imply that anarchy would result in better spawns. In the end I settled for doing courier missions for the Diamond Dogs to get some reputation and maybe get some better missions or something, I don't know. Also is the goon group in this more or less dead? There's loads of people in discord but hardly any playing E:D. Or is everyone just out getting slaughtered tonight.
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Jan 1, 2017 00:14
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Pharnakes posted:In the end I bought the eagle and since it had enough jump range sailed down to the goon system from the op. In Capricorni I found some res sites, but when I flew over to them and sat on them for 10 minutes or so I didn't find any ships with bounties. A couple of times ship's where fighting each other but none of them had bounties so I didn't join in at all. I notice the system is Anarchy, does this mean that there are no bounties applied because there is no law? On the other hand when I read the E:D wiki about res sites it seemed to imply that anarchy would result in better spawns. Sounds like bad rng on not getting bounties. Because the game is all peer2peer instancing, you can jump out of the res site, go to supercruise turn around and jump back to the res site to reset the instance. Anarchy systems will still have wanted npcs but anarchy aligned factions, like the frogs, will not issue bounties for wanted pilots. Thus, the frogs will not benefit from turning in the bounties. The goon group is still very much active. I think discord displays the names of everyone even if they're offline so it may seem to be less active than it really is.
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Jan 1, 2017 01:14
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DancingShade posted:ED is the video game of choice for people who buy $500 HOTAS systems, VR and simulator chairs for their space trucking with less engaging gameplay than an actual trucking simulator. To be honest, I envy those guys and their expensive HOTAS things. I'm on a smaller budget and have to make do with my old Logitech Attack 3, bought used for literally 5 bucks
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Jan 1, 2017 01:51
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Pharnakes posted:In the end I bought the eagle and since it had enough jump range sailed down to the goon system from the op. In Capricorni I found some res sites, but when I flew over to them and sat on them for 10 minutes or so I didn't find any ships with bounties Sorry but do not bounty hunt in any system we're in. It hurts our influence.
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Jan 1, 2017 03:10
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I've just started playing, and really all I've done so far is get my HOTAS X set up with a usable binding. I'm ready to start learning the game proper. Should I start in Solo mode? Or should I just jump right in to Open from the get go?
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Jan 1, 2017 03:39
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Pharnakes posted:In the end I bought the eagle and since it had enough jump range sailed down to the goon system from the op. In Capricorni I found some res sites, but when I flew over to them and sat on them for 10 minutes or so I didn't find any ships with bounties. A couple of times ship's where fighting each other but none of them had bounties so I didn't join in at all. I notice the system is Anarchy, does this mean that there are no bounties applied because there is no law? On the other hand when I read the E:D wiki about res sites it seemed to imply that anarchy would result in better spawns. I like you. You and me, we's gonna be just the very best of friends.  I have pre-emptively declared 2017 Year of the Frog. Clearly, people will not be satisfied by this autism chariot sim until we set the very heavens ablaze so you know what, we'll turn up our space game up a notch
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Jan 1, 2017 03:39
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Libluini posted:To be honest, I envy those guys and their expensive HOTAS things. I'm on a smaller budget and have to make do with my old Logitech Attack 3, bought used for literally 5 bucks I have a T-1600M, but still end up using my XBox controller most of the time. I was using a wired 360 controller, but upgraded to a wireless XBone controller. It's really nice, except when the battery decides to die unexpectedly. U and J were my friends that day.
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Jan 1, 2017 03:45
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Natsuumi posted:Sorry but do not bounty hunt in any system we're in. It hurts our influence. Sure, but what do I do instead then? Something else or fly to not goon space and bounty hunt there? If so where's the nearest to goonspace? What constitutes a goon system anyway, one where the diamond frogs are in power?
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Jan 1, 2017 13:17
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We will tell you the best places to bounty hunt, to trade, to do missions, to drop data, to cause tears, to make an absolute gently caress ton of money, to do whatever pointless activity you wish to do in this game. [ONLY PLATINUM MEMBERS CAN READ THIS TEXT] See you in the discord
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Jan 1, 2017 13:37
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Libluini posted:To be honest, I envy those guys and their expensive HOTAS things. I'm on a smaller budget and have to make do with my old Logitech Attack 3, bought used for literally 5 bucks hakimashou posted:What I've never gotten about ED is -why- they make it a grind fest like this. Turns out that you're not actually getting anywhere, so if you're not enjoying what you're doing at any point along the way you're not going to like it when you run out of bigger ships to buy. There's not any real progression in this game, it isn't like you're leveling up and getting gear so you can go take on the boss spaceships in the raid instances. You're just getting different sets of armor with different arrangements of pockets. It is cool and fun to try out different spaceships and outfit for different roles, but because there's no real leveling in this game, if you could just buy whichever spaceship you wanted the first day you play then you'd do that for a couple days then be bored. That said, the RNG aspect of this game is complete bullshit and the fact that you can spend days trying to get the engineer material you want to randomly show up is infuriating. Most mission payouts are pathetic and show no real progression and very little benefit to building faction. There is zero complexity to the missions themselves apart from wandering around aimlessly hoping to stumble across the objective, and everything is a mindless that could have been performed by a slightly more advanced docking computer. The major faction grinds have no incentive to apply any sort of skill, such as doing more harder missions to get larger rank per mission. But! If you're into flying around in space and marveling at the galaxy, or floating around giant spinning asteroids and mining them in quiet solitude, or blasting the poo poo out of a Deadly Anaconda with your Imperial Eagle because he just can't get you out of his baffles, then this game is for you. I like doing these things and that's why this game is so awesome. If they fixed up the grindy bits to make gameplay at stations / with powerplay more engaging, I'd never be able to stop playing.
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Jan 1, 2017 15:33
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The basic progression that's there is still similar to your regular RPG/MMO loop: Play, earn power (money, reputation, loot) to level up (buy a bigger/better ship) and get better equipment, so you're better prepared to take on bigger challenges (harder enemies, larger cargo loads, go deeper into unexplored space). Except harder enemies aren't really worth that much more so you go to risk >>> reward quickly, because your rebuy is now hundreds of NPC bounties. Cargo in 1t increments doesn't need a Type-9, outside of rare trading you can usually move more tons/time in a smaller ship with way better jump range and maneuverability. And exploration doesn't take an Asp-E or exploraconda, it's just way more painful because of jump ranges and not having enough internal slots for enough replacement buggies or what have you. They don't need the grind because otherwise there's no progression, they made a progression but it's all hosed up. orcane fucked around with this message at 16:40 on Jan 1, 2017 |
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Jan 1, 2017 16:36
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orcane posted:They don't need the grind because otherwise there's no progression P much. The game for me started when I was post-money and could just play with whatever in whatever way. Reminds me of when I got my hands on a hacked elite 2 save with infinite money, same thing.
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Jan 1, 2017 19:19
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FBS posted:I've just started playing, and really all I've done so far is get my HOTAS X set up with a usable binding. I'm ready to start learning the game proper. Only play open if that's your preference. Otherwise, play solo. The only difference between the two is the amount of times you will be interdicted and maybe destroyed.
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Jan 1, 2017 20:08
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Gaile Gray Gaile Gray Gaile Gray Gaile Gray Gaile Gray Gaile Gray Gaile Gray Gaile Gray Gaile Gray Gaile Gray Gaile Gray Gaile Gray Gaile Gray
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17 Draconis is back in Civil War. This time it is 17 Draconis Alliance VS Jet Bridge Inc., so you'll be able to grind some Federation rank while you earn those sweet, sweet space-dabloons. Happy New Year, and get it while you can.
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Jan 1, 2017 22:17
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Apple Craft posted:17 Draconis is back in Civil War. 
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Jan 1, 2017 23:05
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Oh hey I was just thinking I needed lots and lots of cooling hoses. And an extra billion.
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Jan 1, 2017 23:26
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Apple Craft posted:17 Draconis is back in Civil War. So to confirm; take Jet Bridge contracts and pound on skimmers?
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Jan 1, 2017 23:53
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Breetai posted:So to confirm; take Jet Bridge contracts and pound on skimmers? Yes, and luckily enough, you might still get skimscum missions from The Order against New 17 Draconis Alliance. If you do, take them as well. They will not incur you any fines due to the civil war going on. That means you will have two sources for missions and an easier time filling your mission log.
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Jan 2, 2017 01:44
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Well I do have tomorrow off work, maybe I'll grind out another half billion while there's one last chance to do it.
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Jan 2, 2017 06:46
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