Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:

Shiretalk: the only reason the Shire was safe was because of centuries of protection by the Rangers. It's not that it is a backwater with no evil, its safety is an artificial creation.

Also it is kind of a post-apocalyptic wasteland: it's mentioned a few times that they used to have more machines and stuff but now all that is in a special museum.

Kassad posted:

Personally, I like the idea that half of Gandalf's magic is knowing how to make explosives. He's always packing a few homemade hand grenades.

Kassad posted:

He's always packing a few homemade hand grenades acorns.

Bendigeidfran posted:

New Tolkien biopic's being planned, with the somewhat uncreative name of Middle Earth. Not sure if it'll get off the ground honestly. While I find Tolkien to be a very endearing person and would def. enjoy a good film about him, his estate is a bit...touchy about these things.

Bendigeidfran posted:

New Tolkien biopic's being planned,

glowing-fish posted:

Unorthodox but actually well-supported Tolkien theory:

How much do you think that at least some of Tolkien's work is a mostly gentle parody of Northern European traditions? I think there is a conflict in Tolkien between the classically trained scholar and Roman Catholic who admired the sophisticated, urban culture of the Mediterranean, and the man who liked the northern countryside and its simple traditions.

Even in-universe, Gondor wasn't a "Nordic" civilization, Tolkien described their architecture as "Egyptian", they were located at a Mediterranean latitude, and they were an urbanized civilization. Some of the objection to Aragorn seems to be that he was from the northern wilds, not an urbane Gondorian. And if the Hobbits are "English", then Tolkien seems to both admire them but also think they are lacking in knowledge of higher civilizations.

Alhazred posted:

A movie where Tolkien grades papers in silence for two hours.

glowing-fish posted:

Unorthodox but actually well-supported Tolkien theory:

How much do you think that at least some of Tolkien's work is a mostly gentle parody of Northern European traditions? I think there is a conflict in Tolkien between the classically trained scholar and Roman Catholic who admired the sophisticated, urban culture of the Mediterranean, and the man who liked the northern countryside and its simple traditions.

Even in-universe, Gondor wasn't a "Nordic" civilization, Tolkien described their architecture as "Egyptian", they were located at a Mediterranean latitude, and they were an urbanized civilization. Some of the objection to Aragorn seems to be that he was from the northern wilds, not an urbane Gondorian. And if the Hobbits are "English", then Tolkien seems to both admire them but also think they are lacking in knowledge of higher civilizations.

Data Graham posted:

His whole premise, after all, is that ancient beauty fades away and can never be regained or made pure again no matter how grand the thing you replace it with.

extra stout posted:

Where did he write that their architecture was Egyptian? I'm curious if he's just comparing it in greatness for it's time or in the way it was built.

glowing-fish posted:

http://askmiddlearth.tumblr.com/post/86299381776/egyptians-in-middle-earth

Was where I first read that.

ETA: This is 17 years old, but someone wrote a long essay about why Middle-Earth is not meant to represent "medieval" Europe.

http://middle-earth.xenite.org/2011/08/05/tolkiens-middle-earth-doesnt-look-like-medieval-europe/

Friar John posted:

"In the south Gondor rises to a peak of power, almost reflecting Númenor, and then fades slowly to decayed Middle Age, a kind of proud, venerable, but increasingly impotent Byzantium." - Letter 131

Friar John posted:

Second link is factually wrong when it comes to "Tolkien never once conceded a medieval influence."
"In the south Gondor rises to a peak of power, almost reflecting Númenor, and then fades slowly to decayed Middle Age, a kind of proud, venerable, but increasingly impotent Byzantium." - Letter 131
Further, the argument that the Rohirrim are not to bring to mind the Anglo-Saxons, because one is famous for horses and the other famous for ships, is just head-scratching. But I feel like the author has a very restricted sense of what "medieval" means. That Middle-Earth is not Arthurian in the vein of Malory - sure! But it is absolutely meant to evoke historical ideas. Events of Gondor recall the great migrations of peoples, Rohan's poetry calls on Anglo-Saxon themes and diction.
"I am historically minded. Middle-earth is not an imaginary world… The theatre of my tale is this earth, the one in which we now live, but the historical period is imaginary." - Letter 183

As for being a "parody" of the North, I can't see it. Tolkien (again in 131) makes it clear that he's interested in constructing a mythology for England, in the vein of the Book of Invasions for Ireland or the Mabinogion for Wales. If you look at Hesiod or Homer or the writer of the Nibelungenlied, there's no parody in them, because before them there's nothing *to* be parodied. Tolkien was laying the foundations for a mythology, and you can't do that on parody or irony.

"I was from early days grieved by the poverty of my own beloved country: it had no stories of its own … Do not laugh! But once upon a time (my crest has long since fallen) I had a mind to make a body of more or less connected legend, ranging from the large and cosmogonic, to the level of romantic fairy-story… which I could dedicate simply to: to England; to my country."

Friar John posted:

"I was from early days grieved by the poverty of my own beloved country: it had no stories of its own … Do not laugh! But once upon a time (my crest has long since fallen) I had a mind to make a body of more or less connected legend, ranging from the large and cosmogonic, to the level of romantic fairy-story… which I could dedicate simply to: to England; to my country."

Friar John posted:

As for being a "parody" of the North, I can't see it. Tolkien (again in 131) makes it clear that he's interested in constructing a mythology for England, in the vein of the Book of Invasions for Ireland or the Mabinogion for Wales. If you look at Hesiod or Homer or the writer of the Nibelungenlied, there's no parody in them, because before them there's nothing *to* be parodied. Tolkien was laying the foundations for a mythology, and you can't do that on parody or irony.

glowing-fish posted:

In Letter 150, Tolkien said: "The toponymy of The Shire... is a 'parody' of that of rural England, in much the same sense are its inhabitants".

In the text itself, the hobbits are repeatedly teased for their provincialism and lack of scale, for example, when Gandalf says (I'm reciting from memory) "They will sit on the edge of wreck and ruin and discuss the pleasures of the table and the doings of their relations of the twelfth degree".

And externally, Tolkien has confirmed that there is some parody of English provincialism. That isn't to say he didn't love England, but I think there is this tension between the Roman Catholic classical scholar and the man who loved the English country-side.

euphronius posted:

Saruman is also a clear parody of fascist strong men using the radio.

Hogge Wild posted:

wan't he more of a caricature of all crooked politicians

euphronius posted:

The voice in particular was a reference to radio which was the twitter of its time for fascist populists to rable rouse.

glowing-fish posted:

In the text itself, the hobbits are repeatedly teased for their provincialism and lack of scale, for example, when Gandalf says (I'm reciting from memory) "They will sit on the edge of wreck and ruin and discuss the pleasures of the table and the doings of their relations of the twelfth degree".

quote:

‘For one thing,’ said Théoden, ‘I had not heard that they spouted smoke from their mouths.’
That is not surprising,’ answered Merry; ‘for it is an art which we have not practised for more than a few generations. It was Tobold Hornblower, of Longbottom in the Southfarthing, who first grew the true pipe-weed in his gardens, about the year 1070 according to our reckoning. How old Toby came by the plant…’
‘You do not know your danger, Théoden,’ interrupted Gandalf. ‘These hobbits will sit on the edge of ruin and discuss the pleasures of the table, or the small doings of their fathers, grandfathers, and great-grandfathers, and remoter cousins to the ninth degree, if you encourage them with undue patience. Some other time would be more fitting for the history of smoking. Where is Treebeard, Merry?‘

quote:

Grim was the world and grey last night:
The moon and stars were fled,
The hall was dark without song or light,
The fires were fallen dead.
The wind in the trees was like to the sea,
And over the mountains’ teeth
It whistled bitter-cold and free,
As a sword leapt from its sheath.
The lord of snows upreared his head;
His mantle long and pale
Upon the bitter blast was spread
And hung o’er hill and dale.
The world was blind, the boughs were bent,
All ways and paths were wild:
Then the veil of cloud apart was rent,
And here was born a Child.
The ancient dome of heaven sheer
Was pricked with distant light;
A star came shining white and clear
Alone above the night.
In the dale of dark in that hour of birth
One voice on a sudden sang:
Then all the bells in Heaven and Earth
Together at midnight rang.
Mary sang in this world below:
They heard her song arise
O’er mist and over mountain snow
To the walls of Paradise,
And the tongue of many bells was stirred
in Heaven’s towers to ring
When the voice of mortal maid was heard,
That was mother of Heaven’s King.
Glad is the world and fair this night
With stars about its head,
And the hall is filled with laughter and light,
And fires are burning red.
The bells of Paradise now ring
With bells of Christendom,
And Gloria, Gloria we will sing
That God on earth is come.

A Young JRR Tolkien posted:

"A young man wished to purchase a birthday gift for a lady friend. After much meditation and consideration he decided upon a pair of gloves as being appropriate. As his sister had some shopping to do, he accompanied her to a ladies wearing apparel shop.
While he was selecting the gloves, his sister made a purchase of a pair of drawers for herself. In delivering the parcels that afternoon, by mistake the drawers were left at his sweetheart's door with a note as follows:

Dear Velma: This little token is to remind you that I haven't forgotten your birthday. I didn't choose it because I thought that you needed them, or because you haven't been in the habit of wearing them, or because we go out evenings. Had it not been for my sister I would have gotten long ones, but she says they are wearing the short ones - with one button.

They are a very delicate color, I know, but the lady clerk showed me a pair she had worn for three weeks, and they were scarcely soiled at all. How I wish I might put them on you for the first time! No doubt many other gentleman's hands will touch them before I get a chance to see you again, but I hope you will think of me every time you put them on.

I had the lady clerk try them on and they looked very neat on her. I did not know the exact size, but I should be capable of judging nearer than anyone else. When you put them on for the first time put a little powder in them and they will slip on easier. When you remove them, blow in the them before laying them away, as they will naturally be a little damp from wearing.
Hoping that you will accept them in the same spirit in which they are given and that you will wear them to the dance Friday night,
I remain,
Lovingly yours,
John
P.S. Note the number of times I will kiss the back of them in the coming year! John"

glowing-fish posted:

Related, here is a story Tolkien wrote about give-gifting (although for a birthday and not for Christmas):

glowing-fish posted:

chernobyl kinsman posted:

i didn't know lisa frank did lotr fan art