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MiddleOne posted:Hahahaha, recovery, that is hilarious.  We've had the third year in a row of steady growth and shrinking unemployment I mean, there are some outliner countries doing badly and you can argue about how good the recovery actually is, but it's still a recovery
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Jan 2, 2017 15:05
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Rappaport posted:Didn't Schäuble want Greece to gently caress off the euro, but the Greeks said no thank you?
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Jan 2, 2017 15:09
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Pluskut Tukker posted:The Commission and the Franco-German axis have taken advantage to push further military-industrial cooperation, which is less contentious than the idea of a European Army. The hope is that further operational cooperation will follow as a result.
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Jan 2, 2017 15:12
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Rappaport posted:Didn't Schäuble want Greece to gently caress off the euro, but the Greeks said no thank you? Indeed. And this is why the euro will survive: if even the Greeks do not want to leave the Euro after 7 years of misery , then who else will? A Buttery Pastry posted:Reminds me of the Euro. Quite so. Neofunctionalism is alive and well!
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Jan 2, 2017 15:15
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Imagine being in such a wonderland that the second-largest economy leaves the union, your awful refugee agreement with Turkey might collapse any day, and a brushfire of populism is spreading because of massive income inequality, and you table "work out how to help EADS make more money" as if it's the most important thing in the world agenda lol
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Jan 2, 2017 15:18
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Pluskut Tukker posted:Indeed. And this is why the euro will survive: if even the Greeks do not want to leave the Euro after 7 years of misery , then who else will? Right, but what I failed to convey was the idea that Jerry is more than happy to jettison swarthy untermenschen out of his currency as soon as they become useless mouths to feed. It isn't entirely straight-forward to say that everyone wants to stay in the euro because otherwise poop will hit the fan when the herrenvolk are already greedily eyeing up the first victims to make an example from.
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Jan 2, 2017 15:19
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Haha, that Brussels correspondent thinks Hungary leaving the EU would be a bad thing.
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Jan 2, 2017 15:23
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"Sir! Sir! The German public is going to try its damnedest to unseat a hypothetically unbreakable coalition!" "Will you shut up for a minute I'm trying to flog some Eurofighters to Chile here"
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Jan 2, 2017 15:24
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Raspberry Jam It In Me posted:
It's an economic recovery for the usual suspects. For most people wages are still dead while costs of living have never stopped increasing, while more jobs are starting to show up most of them are low paying with no real career progress or flat out precarious, and youth unemployment still remains pretty high. Talking about growth and recovery, because the numbers show it's recovering and growing, it's how you get Trump, Brexit and most likely Le Pen, because for your average dude on the street, there's gently caress all happening to them, other than more of the same poo poo. Bad jobs, bad pay, bad everything.
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Jan 2, 2017 15:32
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Raspberry Jam It In Me posted:
It's not good enough and its a terrible sign. It's been almost 8 years since the last worldwide recession we're still just sporting a 'modest' recovery. At this pace we will see the rise of the next Third Reich before the Eurozone has even recovered that which was lost in the last crisis. Youth unemployment is still at over 20% in the Eurozone with big countries like Spain being at over 40%!
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Jan 2, 2017 15:36
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Electronico6 posted:It's an economic recovery for the usual suspects. For most people wages are still dead while costs of living have never stopped increasing, while more jobs are starting to show up most of them are low paying with no real career progress or flat out precarious, and youth unemployment still remains pretty high. Fair point MiddleOne posted:It's not good enough and its a terrible sign. It's been almost 8 years since the last worldwide recession we're still just sporting a 'modest' recovery. At this pace we will see the rise of the next Third Reich before the Eurozone has even recovered that which was lost in the last crisis. Youth unemployment is still at over 20% in the Eurozone with big countries like Spain being at over 40%! That too
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Jan 2, 2017 15:42
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Rappaport posted:Right, but what I failed to convey was the idea that Jerry is more than happy to jettison swarthy untermenschen out of his currency as soon as they become useless mouths to feed. It isn't entirely straight-forward to say that everyone wants to stay in the euro because otherwise poop will hit the fan when the herrenvolk are already greedily eyeing up the first victims to make an example from. What? Who will be the UKs first victims? And how will they be victimized/made an example of? By being jettisoned out of the currency (country?) by Jeremy Corbyn? Isn't he the Labour leader, so probably even a bit less xenophobic than the average Brit?
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Jan 2, 2017 15:42
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Rappaport posted:Right, but what I failed to convey was the idea that Jerry is more than happy to jettison swarthy untermenschen out of his currency as soon as they become useless mouths to feed. It isn't entirely straight-forward to say that everyone wants to stay in the euro because otherwise poop will hit the fan when the herrenvolk are already greedily eyeing up the first victims to make an example from. Jerry may be ready to do so, but they lack the power to actually accomplish that. In the real world though, Jerry is nevertheless a cosignee on all the loans given to Greece through the ESM,, and as the biggest EU contributor in absolute terms Germany has effectively also paid the largest share of the at least 100 billion euros in structural and cohesion funds that went Greece's way since it joined the EEC in 1981. jBrereton posted:Imagine being in such a wonderland that the second-largest economy leaves the union, your awful refugee agreement with Turkey might collapse any day, and a brushfire of populism is spreading because of massive income inequality, and you table "work out how to help EADS make more money" as if it's the most important thing in the world agenda lol Lol at anyone from the UK or the US chiding the EU for having an excessive degree of income inequality. Anyway, I probably didn't contextualise Quatremer enough, because he does not exactly see all the things he listed as good things; it's more that he thinks that the people who have been saying that the EU is doomed and that a breakup is bound to happen are wrong, and that the process of European integration is alive and well, and that to the contrary further integration is actually likely to happen. Though as always with the EU, the outcome is not necessarily going to look pretty. Pluskut Tukker fucked around with this message at 15:47 on Jan 2, 2017 |
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Jan 2, 2017 15:44
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goethe42 posted:What? Who will be the UKs first victims? And how will they be victimized/made an example of? MiddleOne posted:It's not good enough and its a terrible sign. It's been almost 8 years since the last worldwide recession we're still just sporting a 'modest' recovery. At this pace we will see the rise of the next Third Reich before the Eurozone has even recovered that which was lost in the last crisis. Youth unemployment is still at over 20% in the Eurozone with big countries like Spain being at over 40%!
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Jan 2, 2017 15:51
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Pluskut Tukker posted:Jerry may be ready to do so, but they lack the power to actually accomplish that. In the real world though, Jerry is nevertheless a cosignee on all the loans given to Greece through the ESM,, and as the biggest EU contributor in absolute terms Germany has effectively also paid the largest share of the at least 100 billion euros in structural and cohesion funds that went Greece's way since it joined the EEC in 1981. I am tempted to say that Jerry is also the only guy who can decide to print more of his own currency within the eurozone, but I don't actually know enough about their internal politics to know whether they'd actually do it.
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Jan 2, 2017 15:53
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goethe42 posted:What? Who will be the UKs first victims? And how will they be victimized/made an example of? Jerry = Germany. jBrereton posted:Imagine being in such a wonderland that the second-largest economy leaves the union, your awful refugee agreement with Turkey might collapse any day, and a brushfire of populism is spreading because of massive income inequality, and you table "work out how to help EADS make more money" as if it's the most important thing in the world agenda lol Better EADS than Lockheed-Martin.
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Jan 2, 2017 16:01
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Rappaport posted:I am tempted to say that Jerry is also the only guy who can decide to print more of his own currency within the eurozone, but I don't actually know enough about their internal politics to know whether they'd actually do it.
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Jan 2, 2017 16:02
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LemonDrizzle posted:Mario Draghi is not Jerry and has been printing currency within the eurozone for a while now. Good point, though he's made a big hooplaa about it not actually being running the printing presses 
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Jan 2, 2017 16:03
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LemonDrizzle posted:Mario Draghi is not Jerry and has been printing currency within the eurozone for a while now. The Jerry is now using Italians for his perfidious plans? Sad! The Jerry probably kidnapped his famaly and blackmailing hom now. How low energy! 
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Jan 2, 2017 16:06
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I also use British WWI slang to refer to other nationalities
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Jan 2, 2017 16:11
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Also, everyone's using "Jerry" incorrectly - it's "a Jerry" for a German, or "the Jerries" for Germans collectively. You can't really use "Jerry" to mean Germany. Now "the Hun", that's a different story. e: @Phlegmish - Jerries was more WWII than WWI afaik.
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Jan 2, 2017 16:12
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The "Hun" just reminds me of Motörhead
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Jan 2, 2017 16:18
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Raspberry Jam It In Me posted:
Perception = Reality in economics so even if you were technically correct or not it is irrelevant. The US is doing miles better than euro economies and had one economic populist win and another get embarrassingly close in the dem primary. It's quite obvious this so called recovery isn't one to most people. The US even had real wage growth that was the best in decades and it still didn't matter. Not to mention we are due for another recession, which could mean that what brief reprieve people had is soon to be wiped away again in a couple years. The refugee crisis is just icing on the shitcake, because you now have a bunch of people coming in and the lower classes quite accurately worried about what that means for the already flailing social safety nets and job competition in the age of automation. These two things work very well in tandem to destroy faith in the current governments and drive people who would ordinarily never consider it to take a look at the far right parties, who seem to be the only people actually offering solutions. Terrible solutions that won't work, but when all else you got are leaders saying "maybe we just have to get used to being blown up and run over by trucks" it's not really a surprise people are still heading in that direction. Pluskut Tukker posted:Indeed. And this is why the euro will survive: if even the Greeks do not want to leave the Euro after 7 years of misery , then who else will? Greece leaving the euro would have meant starvation and freezing since who would lend money to greece at that point? loving no one that's who. Countries like the UK will still have access to capital markets even if/when they leave the EU because they actually have a functioning economy. Besides that the refugee crisis is very much not a settled issue, and the continuing pressures from it could blow up the euro/eu on its own as countries deal with the long term implications. At the end of the day the euro only made sense if it caused further political integration; this was the original plan in fact. Economic cooperation would automatically breed political cooperation, was the theory. But it has not done so-- and quite the contrary poll after poll after poll after election has shown that people in europe do not want further political integration and in many cases the majority wants more political disintegration. The current setup of the euro simply makes no sense because of this, and yet the political elite keeps on trying to shove the square peg into the round hole and wondering why people are fleeing to the fringe parties in droves. As I've said the EU is trying to pretend they are like the current day US when they are actually pre-civil war US, at best, when it comes to how the states view each other. One of the causes of the US civil war was the shared experience of the revolutionary war (which was a strong cohesive force in bringing together the states) being forgotten. In much the same way the shared of experiences of WWII, which provided the primary impetus to forming a union, are being lost to time and the integrating force it provided dissolving.
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Jan 2, 2017 16:20
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LemonDrizzle posted:Also, everyone's using "Jerry" incorrectly - it's "a Jerry" for a German, or "the Jerries" for Germans collectively. You can't really use "Jerry" to mean Germany. Now "the Hun", that's a different story. Thanks for the correction, Limey!  TROIKA CURES GREEK posted:Greece leaving the euro would have meant starvation and freezing since who would lend money to greece at that point? loving no one that's who. Countries like the UK will still have access to capital markets even if/when they leave the EU because they actually have a functioning economy. The UK may leave the EU (at enormous cost) because they don't have the euro. Anyone else? Other than Germany maybe, it would be impossible. TROIKA CURES GREEK posted:At the end of the day the euro only made sense if it caused further political integration; this was the original plan in fact. Economic cooperation would automatically breed political cooperation, was the theory. But it has not done so-- and quite the contrary poll after poll after poll after election has shown that people in europe do not want further political integration and in many cases the majority wants more political disintegration. The current setup of the euro simply makes no sense because of this, and yet the political elite keeps on trying to shove the square peg into the round hole and wondering why people are fleeing to the fringe parties in droves. My sense is more that people are unhappy because the system isn't working for them, and they will blame the EU if given the option even if their direct problems are not necessarily the fault of the EU (e.g youth unemploymnent, where the euro crisis has worked as a magnifier for existing problems, but the roots of the problem are usually structural), or even when the EU is doing more to help them than their own national governments (e.g. poorer regions of the UK getting significant funding from the EU and not much help from London). Of course there are also many who already were opposed to further integration for ideological reasons, but anti-EU parties wouldn't have such an appeal if the system worked better for people. Pluskut Tukker fucked around with this message at 16:54 on Jan 2, 2017 |
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Jan 2, 2017 16:40
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The UK left is generally upset about 3 things w.r.t. the EU (if they are at all): 1. That the EU treated Greece badly and as such is a horrible neoliberal organisation not worthy of support (ignoring the UK government campaigning to tell Greece to gently caress off) 2. That without immigration from the EU the housing crisis would get better and maybe the NHS cuts will have less impact 3. Some grumbling about having to provide compensation for nationalisations (mostly just the communists) and not being able to get rid of VAT (this is a rule of the common market for relatively obvious reasons. not that any electable UK government would want to, but hey any day now) I don't think they really mind further EU integration as such, definitely not if it had a leftist bent. That's the nationalists who do. In fact the left would mostly be in favour of more integration. And regardless of anything Labour voters voted overwhelmingly for remain (however many traditional, poor, white working-class majority Labour voting areas voted to Leave). Private Speech fucked around with this message at 17:08 on Jan 2, 2017 |
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Jan 2, 2017 16:53
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Private Speech posted:In fact the (UK) left would mostly be in favour of more (European) integration. An EU that wants to give itself more power and also acts as a lightning rod for cunts every time there are elections means an upswing in the power of fascist reactionaries because the Schulzes and Verhofstadts of the world can't keep track of is happening to their own organisation/can but don't care if it gives them personally even a mote more power.
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Jan 2, 2017 17:20
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Pluskut Tukker posted:Lol at anyone from the UK or the US chiding the EU for having an excessive degree of income inequality.
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Jan 2, 2017 17:23
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LemonDrizzle posted:Also, everyone's using "Jerry" incorrectly - it's "a Jerry" for a German, or "the Jerries" for Germans collectively. You can't really use "Jerry" to mean Germany. Now "the Hun", that's a different story.
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Jan 2, 2017 17:25
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It was maybe funny once or twice but please don't keep referring to Germans as Jerries.
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Jan 2, 2017 17:39
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LemonDrizzle posted:Also, everyone's using "Jerry" incorrectly - it's "a Jerry" for a German, or "the Jerries" for Germans collectively. You can't really use "Jerry" to mean Germany. Now "the Hun", that's a different story. yeah when uncle same called the vietcong charlie they meant one specific guy right
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Jan 2, 2017 19:46
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Goa Tse-tung posted:yeah when uncle same called the vietcong charlie they meant one specific guy right yea
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Jan 3, 2017 10:40
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YF-23 posted:It was maybe funny once or twice but please don't keep referring to Germans as Jerries. I just looked it up and it's probably the most harmless nickname in history. "Jerry was a nickname given to Germans during the Second World War by soldiers and civilians of the Allied nations, in particular by the British. The nickname was originally created during World War I,[11] but it did not find common use until World War II.[11] The name Jerry was probably derived from the stahlhelm introduced in 1916, which was said by Tommy Atkins to resemble a chamber pot[12] or Jeroboam.[13] Alternatively, it may be a simple alteration of the word German.[14] One ongoing use of "Jerry" is found in the term jerrycan."
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Jan 3, 2017 10:54
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Pluskut Tukker posted:Lol at anyone from the UK or the US chiding the EU for having an excessive degree of income inequality. That's not really how this works. We don't have to keep quiet about the injustices of other countries just because our own is poo poo. We're not in a competition. No one is trying to say "you're country is worse" in order to score points. This is the thread where we talk about the ongoing downfall of the EU. Which currently still includes the UK.
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Jan 3, 2017 12:17
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Regarde Aduck posted:That's not really how this works. We don't have to keep quiet about the injustices of other countries just because our own is poo poo. We're not in a competition. No one is trying to say "you're country is worse" in order to score points. This is the thread where we talk about the ongoing downfall of the EU. Which currently still includes the UK. You and jBrereton are right. My comment was stupid and needlessly insulting and I apologize.
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Jan 3, 2017 12:34
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Regarde Aduck posted:We're not in a competition. Yes we are. A grand race to the bottom, as every country in the EU competes to starve themselves of fiscal revenue by giving cut after cut after cut to the wealthiest people and the large corporations, and then in the name of sacro-sanct debt reduction mercilessly grind down welfare and pensions, while adjusting their social and environmental regulations to that of China because that's what the divine Market wants in order to bring jobs back; and people have become too poor to afford poo poo that's built in non-world-destroying conditions.
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Jan 3, 2017 12:51
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Mainly it's just depressing to see the Irish state reckon they couldn't create 6,000 jobs with 13 billion euros and go kowtowing back to Apple.
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Jan 3, 2017 12:56
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jBrereton posted:Mainly it's just depressing to see the Irish state reckon they couldn't create 6,000 jobs with 13 billion euros and go kowtowing back to Apple. step 1: take 13 billion euros step 2: pay 6000 people 20000 euros per year for over 100 years. for something. anything.
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Jan 3, 2017 13:54
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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blowfish posted:step 1: take 13 billion euros holy poo poo
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Jan 3, 2017 14:04
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blowfish posted:step 1: take 13 billion euros
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Jan 3, 2017 14:07
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jBrereton posted:Employ 150,000 people for 40000E for 2 years to find a way to generate electricity from rain using materials found in Ireland who even cares lol have some fun with it. I see we have a visitor from another universe where Irish politicians have balls and a long term vision for Ireland
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Jan 3, 2017 16:38
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