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I think you guys are missing the forest for the trees here. There's a version of Windows, a version of Windows XP I might add, that is specially crafted for submarines, aptly named Windows for Submarines. And windows for submarines sounds like a terrible idea, no matter how you slice it.
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Jan 2, 2017 18:50
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if I was russia I'd create a version of minesweeper than when the sub mariner wins a game on expert, launches the missiles
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Jan 2, 2017 18:50
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HardDiskD posted:I think you guys are missing the forest for the trees here. Why is Windows for Submarines a "terrible idea"?
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Jan 2, 2017 18:53
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OSI bean dip posted:Why is Windows for Submarines a "terrible idea"? 
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Jan 2, 2017 18:54
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^^^OSI bean dip posted:Why is Windows for Submarines a "terrible idea"? Windows let water in.
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Jan 2, 2017 18:54
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RIght.
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Jan 2, 2017 18:55
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Portholes for submarines.
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Jan 2, 2017 18:57
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OSI bean dip posted:Why is Windows for Submarines a "terrible idea"?
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Jan 2, 2017 18:59
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OSI bean dip posted:You are assuming that these systems have USB ports let alone any that servicemen will have access to. This this this. Sophisticated malware can break air gaps this way.
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Jan 2, 2017 19:10
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Is there any public info on what these windows machines are even running on Her Majesty's submarines? I mean, it might just be the CBI machine, for all we know.
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Jan 2, 2017 19:14
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Even if you can use Windows XP to run your submarine, why would you?  It’s just not the right tool for the job.
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Jan 2, 2017 19:15
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Platystemon posted:Even if you can use Windows XP to run your submarine, why would you? World renowned submarine designer -Playsemon
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Jan 2, 2017 19:17
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Three-Phase posted:This this this. Sophisticated malware can break air gaps this way. Exactly. There is likely a USB port somewhere on these devices but we're not talking about desktops here--space is at a premium here so taking your average Dell desktop is not going to work. Here's a modern submarine's interior:  It's amazing that these guys have somewhere to sit. Here's your average industrial control PC:  It's likely shoved in behind the display, out of reach of your average serviceman. I'd wager that the USB ports are soldiered off or at least epoxied. Platystemon posted:Even if you can use Windows XP to run your submarine, why would you? Explain why you think this way.
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Jan 2, 2017 19:18
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OSI bean dip posted:You are assuming that these systems have USB ports let alone any that servicemen will have access to. You're giving the MoD (and western defence departments in general) way too much credit when it comes to security.
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Jan 2, 2017 19:19
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OSI bean dip posted:
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Jan 2, 2017 19:21
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ReelBigLizard posted:You're giving the MoD (and western defence departments in general) way too much credit when it comes to security. You're comparing apples and oranges here. There's a difference between leaking the password to the wireless network and how a military submarine is designed.
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Jan 2, 2017 19:24
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Nah they use USB like everyone else, usually with screw on weather caps but USB is loving everywhere.
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Jan 2, 2017 19:26
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sailors are disgusting perverts and will no doubt be stuffing USBs filled with porn into any opening on the boat
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Jan 2, 2017 19:27
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Bum the Sad posted:World renowned submarine designer -Playsemon Screen doors are also a bad idea. That one is free. PM me if you wish to hire me as a submarine design consultant.
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Jan 2, 2017 19:29
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http://www.mpl.ch/t2040.html Here you go, MPL supply embedded systems for military use, practically every box pictured shows standards ports. OSI bean dip posted:You're comparing apples and oranges here. There's a difference between leaking the password to the wireless network and how a military submarine is designed. It's representative to the whole attitude towards security.
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Jan 2, 2017 19:32
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evil_bunnY posted:This is a good description of what happened but in no ways excuses the chain of decisions that led to the ND. Why would you draw C0 from a holster you've literally never used in your life, as part of a speed drill? He carried with the safety on, and part of the draw is flicking the safety off as you draw the gun. It's muscle memory, so he flicked the safety down as he pulled up and thus the gun was already ready to fire when it came out and his finger slipped.
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Jan 2, 2017 19:50
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Mustached Demon posted:Or your rubber glove in a few months. Is there anything you can do if you get some on your figure and notice it immediately? Like immediately sever your finger or how does this work.
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Jan 2, 2017 19:59
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Abyssal Squid posted:^^^  
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Jan 2, 2017 20:04
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Ramc posted:Is there anything you can do if you get some on your figure and notice it immediately? Yes, if you remove the PPE promptly, and begin medical treatment immediately you'll likely be OK. Trouble is that you're asymptomatic, so people don't seek treatment, and then it's too late.
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Jan 2, 2017 20:54
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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that's a submersible
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Jan 2, 2017 20:55
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VectorSigma posted:that's a submersible Fine. NR-1 http://www.public.navy.mil/subfor/underseawarfaremagazine/Issues/Archives/issue_14/nr1.html quote:NR-1 also has a number of unique features, including three view ports, which allows crew-men to establish direct visual contact with the ocean floor. At the very bottom of the sub, the box keel houses NR-1's wheel bases and manipulator arm.
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Jan 2, 2017 23:20
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A whole bunch of Russian nuclear subs have windows on the conning tower, outside the pressure hull Ramc posted:Is there anything you can do if you get some on your figure and notice it immediately? It goes through latex like it's not there, but IIRC it's stopped by nitrile. So wear nitrile/laminated gloves.
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Jan 2, 2017 23:49
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GotLag posted:A whole bunch of Russian nuclear subs have windows I think that's your only choice. PVC does nothing either, IIRC.
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Jan 2, 2017 23:52
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chitoryu12 posted:He carried with the safety on, and part of the draw is flicking the safety off as you draw the gun. It's muscle memory, so he flicked the safety down as he pulled up and thus the gun was already ready to fire when it came out and his finger slipped. I thought the gun was a Glock and those don't have external safeties.
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Jan 3, 2017 00:12
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flosofl posted:I think that's your only choice. PVC does nothing either, IIRC. So it does: quote:Permeation tests showed that several types of disposable latex or polyvinyl chloride gloves (typically, about 0.1 mm thick), commonly used in most laboratories and clinical settings, had high and maximal rates of permeation by dimethylmercury within 15 seconds. The American Occupational Safety and Health Administration advises handling dimethylmercury with highly resistant laminated gloves with an additional pair of abrasion-resistant gloves worn over the laminate pair, and also recommends using a face shield and working in a fume hood. I'd recommend not handling it at all.
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Jan 3, 2017 00:12
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GotLag posted:I'd recommend not handling it at all. I was bottle washer in a research lab one semester as a part of work-study in college. The post-doc that showed me around showed me the dimethyl mercury and said "I'm not showing you this so you know where it is. You will never touch this. I'm showing you so you know what it looks like so you don't touch it. Never ever touch this. Don't even think thoughts at it"
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Jan 3, 2017 00:21
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chitoryu12 posted:He carried with the safety on, and part of the draw is flicking the safety off as you draw the gun. It's muscle memory, so he flicked the safety down as he pulled up and thus the gun was already ready to fire when it came out and his finger slipped.
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Jan 3, 2017 00:24
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evil_bunnY posted:That's not any better? Who the fucks flips off the safety before clearing their own limbs? The good guys. 
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Jan 3, 2017 00:32
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OSI bean dip posted:Explain why you think this way. Almost everything on a submarine is going to need at least firm real-time guarantees, which Windows is not designed to provide. I mean, it's fine for working up schedules and poo poo but shouldn't be doing anything actually described as 'running the submarine'.
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Jan 3, 2017 01:08
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Keiya posted:Almost everything on a submarine is going to need at least firm real-time guarantees, which Windows is not designed to provide. I mean, it's fine for working up schedules and poo poo but shouldn't be doing anything actually described as 'running the submarine'. https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms838583(v=winembedded.5).aspx I'm not going to comment on how pretty it would be, but it can be done.
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Jan 3, 2017 01:13
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Keiya posted:Almost everything on a submarine is going to need at least firm real-time guarantees, which Windows is not designed to provide. I mean, it's fine for working up schedules and poo poo but shouldn't be doing anything actually described as 'running the submarine'.
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Jan 3, 2017 01:25
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evil_bunnY posted:That's not any better? Who the fucks flips off the safety before clearing their own limbs? If you're using a gun with an external safety, you need to train your muscle memory to flip off the safety simultaneously with the draw. He probably wouldn't have had the problem he did if he had practiced with that holster; since he didn't, its design caused the gun to get stuck and his trigger finger to slip when the gun actually came out.
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Jan 3, 2017 03:36
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Jan 3, 2017 04:30
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OSI bean dip posted:Exactly. There is likely a USB port somewhere on these devices but we're not talking about desktops here--space is at a premium here so taking your average Dell desktop is not going to work. That's clearly a ballistic missile sub, these guys are expected to sail out of port and get lost in the ocean for six months at a time. They get a bit more space and some exercise machines to help them not go insane before their deployment is over. Their sanity is the limiting factor on deployment length as it is.
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Jan 3, 2017 04:49
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Olothreutes posted:Their sanity is the limiting factor on deployment length as it is. well that and storage space for food
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Jan 3, 2017 04:51
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