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Mr. Lobe posted:Does anyone feel like they've ever lost because they overused their consumables? Because I feel like every death I've ever had in this game has, in one way or another, been a consequence of me not using the resources I had and taking unwarranted gambles because of stinginess. I've died in situations where I would of lived if I had heal wounds or teleport scrolls left, so yes I guess. I tend to get a lot more conservative with my consumable use when I have few left though so that rarely happens. Not using consumables when you should out of greed is definitely a bigger problem for most players.
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Jan 3, 2017 21:53
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I've definitely felt like I died due to attrition. It's pretty rare though.
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Jan 3, 2017 21:54
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I'd consider the cause of death for runs like that to be taking too many risks that wind up requiring consumables rather than just simply overusing them. For most people those "gotta save this potion because it might be useful later" instincts run pretty deep, so it's a lot less common than underuse, but it's happened to me.
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Jan 3, 2017 21:56
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The cause of all of my deaths is always holding the tab button.
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Jan 3, 2017 22:01
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I'd play so much better if tab fighting wasn't a thing, but I also probably wouldn't be still playing if it wasn't a thing.
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Jan 3, 2017 22:03
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tweet my meat posted:I'd consider the cause of death for runs like that to be taking too many risks that wind up requiring consumables rather than just simply overusing them. For most people those "gotta save this potion because it might be useful later" instincts run pretty deep, so it's a lot less common than underuse, but it's happened to me. I feel like I've had one or two runs (out of the thousand plus I've played on webtiles alone) where every floor I could go to would require me to burn a consumable even on an average fight, because I'm just that weak. Yet, I have to go somewhere, so I slowly get attritioned down. Then there's the handful of serious games I've had where I primarily used a ranged weapon where I just straight up run out of ammo, which is also attrition, though in a different form and more directly traceable to bad strategy (in this case, not having a good resource-free way to kill things).
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Jan 3, 2017 22:04
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I played Crawl for years before I learned about the tab key, so I've always just used the arrow keys to hit things. Maybe it leads to putting a little more thought into each action, but I also don't get a low-HP warning like with tab.
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Jan 3, 2017 22:05
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Yeah there's definitely the occasional attrition loss and I've had it happen to me a couple times, but it's a lot more rare than overextension.
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Jan 3, 2017 22:09
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On a separate note, I got a bit frustrated with Crawl over vacation and I tried playing Angband, which I beat once like a decade ago. I ran into a monster that rusted equipment or something, and was just like "gently caress this bullshit" and quit playing. I am very glad Crawl moved away from the "item destruction" and disenchantment/rusting mechanics of its roguelike forebears, that stuff is pure non-fun bullshit.
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Jan 3, 2017 22:11
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Mr. Lobe posted:Does anyone feel like they've ever lost because they overused their consumables? Because I feel like every death I've ever had in this game has, in one way or another, been a consequence of me not using the resources I had and taking unwarranted gambles because of stinginess. 
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Jan 3, 2017 22:12
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Mr. Lobe posted:Does anyone feel like they've ever lost because they overused their consumables? Because I feel like every death I've ever had in this game has, in one way or another, been a consequence of me not using the resources I had and taking unwarranted gambles because of stinginess. Twice, both times on the Orb Run, both times as fighter -types who had eaten a couple of rough mutations in Zot. DDFi^Pak and TrFi^Mak. Getting cornered by pan lords when you're out of teleports, heals, and hastes is a rough business. (I had somehow burned through all of my Pakellas Piety, too!) It's definitely much rarer than the converse.
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Jan 3, 2017 22:26
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That's it, I'm quitting crawl:quote:Monster white draconian breath can now be resisted by AC. But seriously, about time, that always was a very weird exception.
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Jan 3, 2017 23:18
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If anyone was testing the dog species (located here!), I want to inform you that I've pushed a dramatic change to the species (AKA ruined it): -Aptitudes are down from +3 to +2 -Attributes are down from 7 Str/7 Int/10 Dex to 5/5/5 -XP Attribute down from 0 to -1 I did this because, after about a dozen runs (and some other feedback), the species was so overly strong early on that they were able to stockpile all of the consumables they would have used for the late game, making that nearly trivial as well despite the skill cap. They also had a problem that the late game builds were all very similar due to the balanced, decent stats, and they had pretty much every possible skill you could want maxed. The aptitude change should still leave them flexible while putting a little extra pressure on proper skilling/skill choices, while the stat and XP attribute changes should force more build variety based on background choice, and increasing the amount of consumables used in the early game so the stockpile isn't as large later on. They may take another hit to the XP attribute (down to -2) before all is said and done, but I'm leaving it at -1 for the moment for further testing to ensure I'm not hitting them too hard.
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Jan 4, 2017 00:13
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Why not call them gnolls? Explains why you only find those on early dungeon levels.
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Jan 4, 2017 00:39
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Serious FRs: Remove bats. I am constantly annoyed by them and have never once been endangered by one. Maybe allow vaults to generate them but remove them from the normal D set of monsters. Allow purple meat to provide satiation. Not really sure why it doesn't.
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Jan 4, 2017 00:41
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cheetah7071 posted:Allow purple meat to provide satiation. Not really sure why it doesn't. So you don't have to purge yourself to eat the purple.
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Jan 4, 2017 00:59
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Ferrinus posted:Why not call them gnolls? Explains why you only find those on early dungeon levels. I guess I didn't want to worry about the expected association with polearms, and also because I like Cy as a species abbreviation (plus, Gnomes/Gn already existed so they would have to take something like Go or Gl which looks dumb). Honestly, a lot of people could probably come up with something better than 'human with dog head', but I'm trying to focus more on making sure it is mechanically sound, interesting, and not broken (in either direction) first before the bikeshedding of the flavor.
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Jan 4, 2017 01:07
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Mr. Lobe posted:On a separate note, I got a bit frustrated with Crawl over vacation and I tried playing Angband, which I beat once like a decade ago. Hah you're lucky you quit before you ran into some Z's that summon more Z's that can summon Z's... Well you get the picture. Summoning monsters are completely broken in that game.
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Jan 4, 2017 01:30
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cheetah7071 posted:Serious FRs: I fuckin hate bats. I wouldn't want them removed, but they could maybe be half as dodgy.
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Jan 4, 2017 01:53
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I'm not sure why bats even exist other than to annoy the crap out of me.
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Jan 4, 2017 01:57
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I think they're just extra annoying for those of us who've played the game a bajillion times.
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Jan 4, 2017 02:06
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They can actually save you early on by inserting themselves in the way of the D2 gnoll.
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Jan 4, 2017 02:10
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And yet, on the list of top killers: #29 bat - 0.58% of deaths
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Jan 4, 2017 02:11
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Unimpressed posted:They can actually save you early on by inserting themselves in the way of the D2 gnoll. They're also a very continent source of food, I found.
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Jan 4, 2017 02:13
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Yeah they can kill a level 1 mage. And I've definitely suicided by bat before when I got bored.
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Jan 4, 2017 02:13
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Bats theoretically teach you about unseen horrors, harpies, death scarabs and shard shrikes who share their annoying movement. Unfortunately it's very difficult to realize exactly what an unseen horror is doing without sInv so it doesn't really help your first time encounters with them, and everything else appears after unseen horrors do.
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Jan 4, 2017 02:14
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Unseen bats are the obvious solution.
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Jan 4, 2017 02:28
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Fitzy Fitz posted:Unseen bats are the obvious solution. Invisibat.
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Jan 4, 2017 02:55
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merge bats and sky beasts
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Jan 4, 2017 03:35
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Let vampires enter bat form even when satiated. Bring back Singularity.
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Jan 4, 2017 03:41
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PleasingFungus posted:merge bats and sky beasts batvault can stay though
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Jan 4, 2017 03:49
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Fitzy Fitz posted:Unseen bats are the obvious solution. How about "seen horrors"
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Jan 4, 2017 04:01
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Holy poo poo, I just won my HEIE^Chei (4 runes) and started my first streak. There were approximately 9 nailbiting encounters with spawned enemies on the orb run. I should have died multiple times. I was down to 4 HP at one point, next to some high tier demons and a Pan lord. I used Step From Time 3 or 4 times on Zot:3 to get away from a melee distortion Pan lord, then later a Seraph. Spamming a wand of Heal Wounds, even with the mutation that reduced device healing, definitely saved my character many times. It's an amazing crutch. I never want to do an Orb run with Chei again. He's really fun as a god most of the game! Not being able to run away without a consumable loving sucks, but it keeps you on your toes. Not being able to controlled blink on the orb run means you cannot run away at all. Plus your teleports are delayed, and Pan lords spawn in your face! A few things I learned about worshipping Chei: You cannot be a pure blaster. You will run out of MP without being able to run away. Even a mediocre +2 Longbow of Velocity was extremely good, because I never wanted to move. Hybridizing with great stats is pretty fun. Tornado, Freezing Cloud, and Summon Lightning Sphere all have excellent mana efficiency. Stealth is key to help you pick your battles. A fun sendoff to the fun race, Morgue: http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/morgue//brainwrinkle/morgue-brainwrinkle-20170104-030048.txt e: how was that fewer turns than my 3 rune Gargoyle? All my movement cost twice as much...
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Jan 4, 2017 04:15
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 http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/InternetKraken/morgue-InternetKraken-20170104-034134.txt This combo gave me a lot of trouble. I lost several characters I had no business dying with which doesn't usually happen. On reflection though, I was playing it wrong. Merfolk have terrible apts in a lot of the spells wizards really like the lean on in the early game so that was rougher than usual. Also I kept trying to use long blades and Dithmenos which is a bad idea if your usual plan for hydras involves fire. Sif Muna worked a lot better. The new casting ability is great early on and the channeling magic is really good with guardian spirit. A lot more appealing for a hybrid character now. I think this was the first time I really used dragon call too. Fun spell but I won't lie, it made things confusing in big fights since there was so much poo poo on the screen. Hard to keep track of what is going on with 8 dragons stomping around on top of your other summons. brainwrinkle posted:e: how was that fewer turns than my 3 rune Gargoyle? All my movement cost twice as much... That's because scoring goes by turns rather than time. The difference between the two isn't immediately apparent. A turn lines up with one keystroke (I think) while the amount of time that passes depends on the action. An example; a hasted spriggan and a slowed naga can cross the same hallway in 10 key presses. In terms of game time the spriggan will finish this way before the naga, but the amount of key presses it takes for both of them to cross is the same. So their turn count will both be +10. So Chei is actually a good god for getting high scores as only your turns count, not how fast you are during them. You'll get a better score if you are finishing fights in fewer key presses by hitting harder, which Chei lets you do.
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Jan 4, 2017 04:55
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PleasingFungus posted:merge bats and sky beasts IronicDongz posted:, and then remove them Sky beasts > phantoms > crimson imps > bats for most annoying early dungeon monsters.
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Jan 4, 2017 12:20
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Skybeasts also teach you about mutating chunks, though. (The lesson is always eat the purple.)
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Jan 4, 2017 12:24
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I'm still convinced there is some screwy interaction between purple chunks and trolls because I think from maybe 50 chunks across a few games I got like bad or neutral mutations.
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Jan 4, 2017 13:05
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Welp. My best run so far. Managed to get down to 15, clear Orc (completely accidental, I thought there was another 2 floors...), killed a dragon and wore it's skin as armor. Also nabbed a great mace of distortion of a vault guard, enchanted both to +4. And then I tried shoals. Merfolk Avatars are nasty.  RIP minotaur abyssal knight, my best run yet.Got to say though, despite dying repeatedly I am enjoying this game, although I am having problems with the difficulty jump of entering branches.
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Jan 4, 2017 19:15
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You want high mr+ and range damage abilities in shoals. Or many summons. IMHO. Also reflect missiles.
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Jan 4, 2017 19:19
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euphronius posted:You want high mr+ and range damage abilities in shoals. Or many summons. IMHO. Oh, it wasn't for a lack of trying. I NEVER found a single MR+ item. I lacked range, yes, but I never got a single MR+ item. I had, however, a randart +7 handaxe giving me rP+, a randart leather armor giving me rF+, a chainmail giving me rC+ ... and 3 rings, one for each of those again. :shepicide. My problem was that I made it to around the vault entrance and was starting to run into stuff I couldn't handle. so I decided to clear Lair, and then tried both spider nest and shoals, but neither really worked out.
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Jan 4, 2017 19:25
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