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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:having even a uniquely talented student wash out because he couldn't handle tootsuki's bullshit any more isn't a very good argument for reverting to the previous status quo. You're mistaking Jouichirou's intent here. It's a Master Eugenist scheme between Grandpa Nakiri and Joichirou. They don't care about the school, they just want to create the ultimate food-offspring. Also, I got a chuckle from:  because obviously its Yoda Judge 
Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Dec 29, 2016 |
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Dec 29, 2016 21:07
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It's not the school's bullshit that does him in. It's other people's heretical food beliefs and his refusal to get help in navigating the culinary storm. Mostly his insistence on going it alone.
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Dec 29, 2016 21:10
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the judges are always rich assholes, and most of his stress seems to be coming from their unreasonable expectations. dealing with judges is intrinsic to tootsuki, though azami seems to prefer using his employees in that role.
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Dec 29, 2016 21:12
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Angry Grimace posted:Riko is totally Soma's mom. At the very least, it's a Chekov's gun(man) right there - new girl introduced for a single panel who we've never seen before who has no apparent relationship to the current plot. I'd actually expect her to be Rindou's mom since they both have similarly narrowed eyes
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Dec 29, 2016 22:05
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Gyges posted:It's not the school's bullshit that does him in. It's other people's heretical food beliefs and his refusal to get help in navigating the culinary storm. Mostly his insistence on going it alone. Food Hitler was right.
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Dec 29, 2016 22:11
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Pewdiepie posted:Food Hitler was right. Food Hitler wants a couple of people to lead and everyone else to follow.
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Dec 29, 2016 22:17
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:having even a uniquely talented student wash out because he couldn't handle tootsuki's bullshit any more isn't a very good argument for reverting to the previous status quo. It looks like the burnout came from piling on the outside competitions on top of Tootsuki's workload. Jouichirou burnt out because he kept going further and further, without an end goal in sight.
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Dec 29, 2016 22:18
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TheKingofSprings posted:Food Hitler wants a couple of people to lead and everyone else to follow. I mean, Azami's plan does in fact follow from Joichirou's experience: the constant pressure of innovation was what did Joichirou in, and Azami's plan is to simply rid the students of the pressure of creating newer and better dishes all of the time. Meaning, if everyone at Totsuki is judged upon and pressured to constantly innovate, lots of them will simply wash out. If you simply restrict the less talented students to increasing quality vs. increasing innovation, the chosen few who are good enough to come up with new dishes don't have to deal with constant pressure by everyone to make better stuff. Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 22:28 on Dec 29, 2016 |
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Dec 29, 2016 22:24
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he kept up with the outside competitions because he was trying to find some meaning in his life. tootsuki kept going on about how competitive cooking is the only thing that matters but then no one there would compete with him any more. once the shiny veneer on all the bullshit rubbed off, saiba rejected the elitism, the obsession with competitions, and even the constant need to innovate. that's everything tootsuki stands for. instead, he got hitched, lived quietly in obscurity, made good food his way and innovated only when he felt like it, specializing in plebian cuisine. that's the opposite of everything tootsuki stands for. well, maybe not the marriage part but it is kind of weird how the only named classmate he had who got married was azami.
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Dec 29, 2016 22:30
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Angry Grimace posted:I mean, Azami's plan does in fact follow from Joichirou's experience: the constant pressure of innovation was what did Joichirou in, and Azami's plan is to simply rid the students of the pressure of creating newer and better dishes all of the time. Meaning, if everyone at Totsuki is judged upon and pressured to constantly innovate, lots of them will simply wash out. If you simply restrict the less talented students to increasing quality vs. increasing innovation, the chosen few who are good enough to come up with new dishes don't have to deal with constant pressure by everyone to make better stuff. i've gotta disagree there. if only a chosen few are permitted to innovate (and lol at the idea of restricting the actions of people after they graduate), then they will always be pushed to continue innovating. after all, no one else can do it so they have to take up the slack. rich fucks need their novel gourmet cuisine, after all.
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Dec 29, 2016 22:33
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:i've gotta disagree there. if only a chosen few are permitted to innovate (and lol at the idea of restricting the actions of people after they graduate), then they will always be pushed to continue innovating. after all, no one else can do it so they have to take up the slack. rich fucks need their novel gourmet cuisine, after all. Well, I think the idea is that Azami is wrong - he apparently assumed the pressure built up by the school's system was what caused Joichirou to leave as opposed to Joichirou simply biting off more than he could chew. I'm just saying that there's at least some degree of logic in Azami's plan if he thinks that the innovation is something that is restricted to those with "true genius" (like Joichirou) as opposed to just hard work, which would explain why Joichirou specifically went out of his way to point out that Soma's talents doesn't lie in naturally being gifted, but rather through a lot of introspection and effort. Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 22:43 on Dec 29, 2016 |
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Dec 29, 2016 22:37
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I really don't think we're supposed to think either the old way or the new way are actually right. Like, this is one of the few times where the truth actually lies in the middle. Both the Ubermench Obstacle Course and the Automoton Training System are wrong.
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Dec 29, 2016 22:49
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you can't even blame it on the nakiris because alice's branch is fine and azami married into the family. basically, whoever runs tootsuki becomes a dumbass if they weren't already.
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Dec 29, 2016 22:54
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I like that Jouichirou's ultimate reaction to everyone tasting his incredible innovations once and then dumping them immediately to ask what the next one will be was to peace out and open a restaurant where his recipes are designed specifically to be eaten again and again, like the beef stew Souma worked with originally.
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Dec 29, 2016 22:58
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It should also be pointed out, in faint defense of the old way, that all most all the students actually have been learning to cook since middle school. Soma is the only transfer student and it seems like all the "gently caress you, you're expelled" poo poo happens in the last 3 years of like 10 years worth of cooking training.
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Dec 29, 2016 22:59
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VgameT posted:I like that Jouichirou's ultimate reaction to everyone tasting his incredible innovations once and then dumping them immediately to ask what the next one will be was to peace out and open a restaurant where his recipes are designed specifically to be eaten again and again, like the beef stew Souma worked with originally. ....oh. Oh! OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. I GET IT NOW. 
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Dec 30, 2016 00:21
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Jouichirou realized that he was no longer having fun
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Dec 30, 2016 00:38
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It's almost as if forcing kids to go through a "do-or-die" kind of lifestyle is not a very practical way of raising them to be proper adults.
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Dec 30, 2016 01:04
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I think it's more that his status of "genius" caused people to put him on a pedestal, including himself. He couldn't keep up with the pressure and began to resent the role. The weird combinations and random Shokugekis were half lashing out and half trying break people's perceptions of him. That's why after he left, he went to the most un-pretentious place he could think of.
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Dec 30, 2016 01:11
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Neo_Crimson posted:I think it's more that his status of "genius" caused people to put him on a pedestal, including himself. He couldn't keep up with the pressure and began to resent the role. The weird combinations and random Shokugekis were half lashing out and half trying break people's perceptions of him. that's probably only half the story. he rejected tootsuki's bullshit and ran away, but the rest of his life choices are likely due to souma's mom.
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Dec 30, 2016 01:36
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So now that I have binge-read the manga, I must ask the immortal question: How does the anime compare?
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Jan 2, 2017 17:30
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It's pretty great.
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Jan 2, 2017 17:37
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Crazyeyes posted:So now that I have binge-read the manga, I must ask the immortal question: First season is a really great adaptation and about the best any manga could ever hope for (while still having worse art after the first ~30 chapters of the manga or so). Second season is fine but it's a definite step down.
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Jan 2, 2017 17:37
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I'm really liking all the callbacks this arc has had. Jouichiro's frustration over other people just giving up instead of challenging him puts his surprise over Souma being willing to challenge him over and over in a new light, the scene at the end with the blank dish calls back to that "if you only cook by yourself, all you'll see is your own face in your dish" thing that Erina got hit with it, and of course you can basically see Azami's philosophy build itself up. My viewpoint on what happened is that Jouichiro's fundamental issue is just how people keep wanting to see what's next. He's totally fine with competition, he wouldn't have humored his son so many times otherwise. He just can't handle bad attitudes as well as Souma can and burned out over the constant demand for more. Remember that his final realization at the end was that he needed to find someone who he liked cooking for.
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Jan 3, 2017 05:07
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it probably helps that very few people ever gush about how wonderful souma is. even when judges are having foodgasms most of their praise is either internal monologues or about the food rather than souma himself. he is eternally the underdog even when that makes little sense.
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Jan 3, 2017 05:32
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Oh, now that I think about it, way back in the very first chapter we saw the people Jouichiro felt it was worth going back to the culinary world for: people who really loved eating his food.
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Jan 3, 2017 05:37
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BlitzBlast posted:My viewpoint on what happened is that Jouichiro's fundamental issue is just how people keep wanting to see what's next. He's totally fine with competition, he wouldn't have humored his son so many times otherwise. He just can't handle bad attitudes as well as Souma can and burned out over the constant demand for more. i think part of it is the "weathering the storm" metaphor too. everyone is standing behind him letting him do all the innovation instead of actually standing beside him and striking out on their own.
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Jan 3, 2017 07:25
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All of the points brought up about Joichirou's behavior are solid and I agree with them, but what I'm most impressed with about this chapter that I wanted to point out is that it seems to be consistent with the psychology concept of 'labeling is disabling'. When faced with positive labeling, it's a common response to reject such labels for they apply pressure to the labeled: "You're beautiful." "Oh, stop trying to butter me up. You should've seen me yesterday, then you'd know. I'm not that beautiful." If they do not reject these labels, they will be stuck in a position where they need to begrudgingly live up to these impossible expectations. When faced with negative labeling, it's a common response to accept such labels for they provide an excuse: "You're a troublemaker." "I may as well not even try to be good, if that's what everyone already thinks of me. If that's how it's going to be, I'll show them how much trouble I can make." To paraphrase the most recent example I read: a family was driving along the highway with their son and sleeping baby in the back seat. Noticing how quiet and unusually behaved the son was, the father piped up "You're a good kid, son, being so quiet for the baby." Shockingly, the next thing that happened was the son reached for the ashtray and dumped the contents out everywhere, filling the car with a choking mist. Luckily, the parents avoided crashing the car. It was only much later after counseling and talking that the son confided in them that he was only so quiet because he was thinking about ways to get rid of the baby. Upon hearing that he was a "good kid" while thinking such evil thoughts, he felt guilty and panicked, immediately looking for a way to show that he wasn't such a "good kid". In Jouichirou's case, he's being pressured by the "genius" label, the "innovator" label, the "one who weathers the storm" label, and throughout the chapters he tried every way possible to reject them. He tried showing off his failed creations to everyone to show that he's not as perfect as everyone thinks, but they refused to acknowledge that. Since the subtle approach failed, he tried openly shouting at people that he was not a genius but again, it was not acknowledged. Finally, he's now chosen to not show up at a competition in an ultimate sign of rebellion. We'll see where it goes from here. Anyway, just thought it was interesting to note. Obviously the psychology aspect I've noted is simplified as there are exceptions and other points to consider, but I do like it when stories have a certain 'human' consistency.
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Jan 3, 2017 16:07
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poo poo dude, nice effort post.
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Jan 3, 2017 16:56
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Was it kirkegaard or dick van dyke who said "when you label me, you deny me" ?
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Jan 3, 2017 19:48
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'Negate', not 'deny', but apocryphal either way, I think.
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Jan 3, 2017 20:00
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I'd say that part of Jouichirou's frustration with everyone is that he is being treated as a trailblazer, but is just being followed. But he wants to inspire others to try things out for themselves. He shows off failed dishes to say "I'm not a genius, I just throw everything at the wall and see what sticks. Why don't you give that a shot?", but everyone just laughs it off and waits for his next great dish. He outright states this during the massive shokugeki in the hopes of inspiring someone, and they all give up in despair. One of the other things is that cooking is all Jouichirou has at this time. There's a video on youtube of the Achievement Hunter guys playing Madden with Dan Campbell of the band The Wonder Years, and they talk about why Dan's such a big football fan. Dan says that after the band took off and music went from a hobby to a job, he needed to get a new hobby. And the AH guys mention that after a day of playing video games, the last thing they want to do at home is play video games. Jouichirou used the competitions to get away from the schoolwork. But as time goes on, the competitions are as big a deal as the school, and Jouichirou has nowhere to go. Jouichirou is one of those guys who'll brush off concerns to take a break. He'll just be "I'm fine. I'm fine."  "I'm not fine."
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Jan 3, 2017 22:18
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 It's honestly impressive just how many callbacks there are this arc.  This (and Saiba mentioning he dropped out) is about all that's left, so presumably that's what next chapter will elaborate on.
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Jan 3, 2017 23:58
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I also thought Jouchiro could be tired of the constantly being called talented, it reminds me of artists getting annoyed when you reduce years of practice and hard work to "you're so talented!".
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Jan 4, 2017 01:56
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I think that played into it too, yeah. He goes through tons of work to come up with something innovative, and the judges just eat it, praise it to high heavens, and then expect him to just come up with another one cause he's a genius, not really thinking about the effort it took him to be able to create that dish in the first place. Cause being called talented or a genius is a form of labeling, which fits in with what FutureCop said above.
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Jan 4, 2017 03:06
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New chapter out http://mangastream.com/r/shokugeki_no_souma/198/3943/1
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Jan 12, 2017 21:52
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It's kind of a weird way to deal with mental breakdowns.
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Jan 12, 2017 21:53
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You know you're in a bad place when Chairman Grandpa wants you to take a break from cooking and relax a little.
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Jan 12, 2017 22:08
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That page with his leg snapping made me wince uncomfortably 
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Jan 14, 2017 04:38
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Yeah, that was worse than the floppy raw-jerky legs from Boku no Hero.
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Jan 14, 2017 05:48
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