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Adam Vegas posted:Personally my favourite aspect of the Great Leap Forward was the drive for iron, whereby peasants were organised into bringing all their pots/pans/other iron utensils to be melted down and used in industrialisation. Actually, they were supposed to mine and smelt ore by themselves, and had insane quotas to meet (while also trying to meet farming quotas). So to keep from being punished, they ended up having to melt down anything they had that was metal. So farmers were melting down their shovels and plows, and masons were melting down their barrows and trowels, etc. So due to the fear of not meeting their iron quotas, they were basically crippling all other industries. Naturally, the insane mix of different metals being melted down together in backyard kilns was not a good idea, and any iron they got was essentially useless and had to be taken to a real steel mill to be re-melted and separated.
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Jan 3, 2017 22:25
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who do you think has done more? would china be polluting less had he not ended up in charge?
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Jan 3, 2017 22:27
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I ran into a story of a farmer who snatched a string of extremely rare iron Taiping coins from one of these furnaces and hid them. He revealed them when the Leap was over and was rewarded for saving a priceless piece of revolutionary history, but it was basically a 50/50 chance of getting sent to a camp. Who knows how many valuable artifacts got tossed in next to spoons and old nails and lost forever.
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Jan 3, 2017 22:37
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http://wildaid.org/news/breaking-news-china-announces-domestic-ivory-banquote:BEIJING (30 December 2016) — The end of the world’s largest ivory market was announced today by the Chinese government as it released a detailed timetable for ending its legal ivory trade. Domestic ivory sales will be banned by the end of 2017 with the first batch of factories and traders to close their business by 31 March 2017. Why do I get the feeling it's all talk and no action? It would be nice to positively affect elephant poaching though. I also get the feeling they want to shift faceloss to Japan, but that's just me.
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Jan 3, 2017 22:45
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The collectives were increddible, first farmers are forced into them, they cannot farm any more land than the plots that they get assigned, their ironwares and pots get confiscated and they can only eat in canteens, according to the workpoints that they earn. The state buys grains at such a low price that they have to run up debt to stay alive. In that other book about the cultural revolution, there's a chapter how the people would subvert the system at the end of the great leap and black markets sprung up. An unskilled worker could make there more money in a day than a farmer made in a month in the collectives at the time we're talking about. My favourite story is that of a dude who refuses to stray from the party line, he's so destitute that he has to live in a repurposed latrine, has no cloth and is on the verge of starvation.
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Jan 3, 2017 22:57
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JaucheCharly posted:My favourite story is that of a dude who refuses to stray from the party line, he's so destitute that he has to live in a repurposed latrine, has no cloth and is on the verge of starvation. *Pokes head out of latrine hole like Oscar the Grouch* Mao was right!
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Jan 3, 2017 23:13
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value-brand cereal posted:Why do I get the feeling it's all talk and no action? Because it's all talk and no action but good for making idiots think China cares about the environment.
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Jan 3, 2017 23:18
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fojar who is your worst person ever i'm genuinely curious
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Jan 3, 2017 23:20
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Jose posted:fojar who is your worst person ever i'm genuinely curious I don't really have one because I'm not sure how you can quantify badness beyond saying "Yep, that person is bad." K/D ratio?
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Jan 3, 2017 23:31
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Fojar38 posted:I don't really have one because I'm not sure how you can quantify badness beyond saying "Yep, that person is bad." K/D ratio? i guess i just look at those beijing pollution photos
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Jan 3, 2017 23:33
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pentyne posted:Mine was how how the insane crop figures kept escalating. Who knows if one province actually had a good year and good local party officials and reported 1000 tons of wheat versus 800 tons the previous year, because once they announced their number suddenly the next province in line started yelling "WE PRODUCED 2000 TONS OF WHEAT" and so on with each place topping the previous reported number and then everyone going back and "adjusting" up their previous statements to try and win the face battle for best province. This sounds eerily familiar.
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Jan 3, 2017 23:47
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Actually mao was not like 100% culpable for newly liberated chinese serfs being complete loving idiots
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Jan 4, 2017 00:19
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Modest Mao posted:Actually mao was not like 100% culpable for newly liberated chinese serfs being complete loving idiots this
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Jan 4, 2017 00:22
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I think an interesting thing about Mao is that he was seen as a moderate in the party, i.e. not that bloodthirsty and not that dogmatic
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Jan 4, 2017 00:27
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i think mao was 70% bad, 30% bad
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Jan 4, 2017 00:30
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Jeoh posted:i think mao was 70% bad, 30% bad hmm nah he did good stuff and was less bloodthirsty than rivals like dengxiaoping lived?? how is possible he hosed up the country real bad though I guessI just like him pre 1958
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Jan 4, 2017 00:36
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mao was actually really bad and a cancer on the human race his personal success caused agony for millions that will resonate for centuries
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Jan 4, 2017 00:37
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Fojar38 posted:mao was actually really bad and a cancer on the human race Also several races of bird.
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Jan 4, 2017 00:37
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mao combined the cold indifference of stalin with the jaw-dropping incompetence of hitler and the death tolls of both
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Jan 4, 2017 00:39
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like americans like their founding fathers even though most had slaves and demanded indian genoicde to make way for white settlers nation state is based on killing, enslaving, imprisioning, ethnically cleansing what came before but every country likes their own national daddy
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Jan 4, 2017 00:40
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Fojar38 posted:mao combined the cold indifference of stalin with the jaw-dropping incompetence of hitler and the death tolls of both lol no
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Jan 4, 2017 00:40
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god why have you brought me back into this thread do I have to explain this all again
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Jan 4, 2017 00:40
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Modest Mao posted:lol no tell me more about how mao zedong is basically the same as george washington
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Jan 4, 2017 00:40
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My favorite Mao fuckup is the one where he ordered a sparrow extermination campaign because he said the birds were eating crops but WHOOPS it turns out the sparrows ate pests that ate the crops and the pests ate more crops without the sparrows keeping them in check.
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Jan 4, 2017 00:41
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Modest Mao posted:god why have you brought me back into this thread do I have to explain this all again it is not the threads fault that you have consistently bad and incorrect opinions about chinese governance
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Jan 4, 2017 00:41
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Fojar38 posted:tell me more about how mao zedong is basically the same as george washington charismatic leader who needed to be in power in order to hold fledgling country together Military leader whose brilliant use of guerilla warefare secured victory in a civil war Mao was more of a political thinker george washington had slaves and hunted escapees ruthlessly
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Jan 4, 2017 00:42
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Modest Mao posted:charismatic leader who needed to be in power in order to hold fledgling country together lol
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Jan 4, 2017 00:46
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americans and I guess western europeans like to say stalin killed more than hitler, mao more than hitler. Unless you make up some pretty non standard definitions of kill it's just not really in the data and it's like the most boring 'did u kno' historical trivia as if killing more people than hitler was a sign of anything at all ? like the nazis on a personal level murdered about 12 million people in labor camps etc not to mention the attempted ethnic cleansing in eastern europe of about 20mil slavs.. How many others did their war machine kill in combat, civilians, etc? having some extraordinarily bad science inform your agricultural reform campaign compounded with people being incapable of reporting farming yeilds accurately... eh it's not really murder unless you're white dude living in a place that never saw war who just really wants to make a point Modest Mao fucked around with this message at 00:52 on Jan 4, 2017 |
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Jan 4, 2017 00:47
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Modest Mao posted:Military leader whose brilliant use of guerilla warefare secured victory in a civil war This is false for both of them lol.
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Jan 4, 2017 00:48
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Please don't quote Modest Mao if you're going to talk to him in the first place. If you go by negative impact Genghis Khan was the worst person in history, then Mao, then Stalin, then Hitler. Mao, Stalin and Pol Pot are especially vile because their great crimes were committed against their own people. If you were to make some kind of XY plot where Y is "amount of harm" and X is "vileness of that harm" and tried to adjust the scales so they made sense Mao's rectangle would have easily half again as much area as the next contender.
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Jan 4, 2017 00:52
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Sheep-Goats posted:If you were to make some kind of XY plot where Y is "amount of harm" and X is "vileness of that harm" and tried to adjust the scales so they made sense Mao's rectangle would have easily half again as much area as the next contender. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjHORRHXtyI
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Jan 4, 2017 00:55
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Someone get AO back in this thread, I'm edging real bad
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Jan 4, 2017 00:57
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Sheep-Goats posted:Please don't quote Modest Mao if you're going to talk to him in the first place. stalin was likely politically motivated to take grain from the ukraine when they had a famine... and? how is he even making the list besides ghengis khan this is just 3rd grade american history lesson on who the enemy is from 1960 lmao
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Jan 4, 2017 00:58
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Modest Mao posted:charismatic leader who needed to be in power in order to hold fledgling country together Sounds like Mao...isn't that Modest! Ha ha ha ha
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Jan 4, 2017 01:00
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Kids are precious Just kidding who gives a poo poo about kids 
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Jan 4, 2017 01:08
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Modest Mao posted:charismatic leader who needed to be in power in order to hold fledgling country together ayyyyy lmao
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Jan 4, 2017 01:16
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Modest Mao doing more work rehabilitating Mao than even the CCP can muster.
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Jan 4, 2017 01:42
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Modest Mao posted:charismatic leader who needed to be in power in order to hold fledgling country together george washington faithful to his wife mao washing his dick in whatever unlucky peasant happened to get hauled up that day
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Jan 4, 2017 01:50
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Imo mao was bad and did nothing good
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Jan 4, 2017 01:54
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LentThem posted:Kids are precious I've seen enough kids not wearing helmets on scooters to know this is true
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Jan 4, 2017 02:12
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