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MinibarMatchman posted:LOL what? Madison Bumgarner is arguably better than even Schilling in the postseason so far and he isn't even that old. The Bum manages to be slightly less insufferable as a human being and had a .25 ERA in the world Series in 36 innings.
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Jan 4, 2017 17:10
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Paul Zuvella posted:The Bum manages to be slightly less insufferable as a human being and had a .25 ERA in the world Series in 36 innings. Curt Schilling gave up more earned runs in his first two innings pitched in the world series than Bum has in his career this means nothing but is still funny.
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Jan 4, 2017 17:33
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If we're gonna talk about postseason performances, then why can't someone tell me why Jack Morris isn't in the HoF, huh? (The Veterans Committee is probably going to vote him in)
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Jan 4, 2017 17:39
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davecrazy posted:I would vote for Schilling i am shocked! bawfuls posted:Someone reminded me on facebook that Ebbets Field Flannels is doing their annual clearance sale now. Lots of goofy tshirts and hats from old minor/independent/negro league teams. poo poo, I gotta get on this. I was thinking of getting some more hats from them... Inspector_666 fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Jan 4, 2017 |
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Jan 4, 2017 17:43
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sexjoke
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seiferguy posted:If we're gonna talk about postseason performances, then why can't someone tell me why Jack Morris isn't in the HoF, huh? Matt Trueblood at BP wrote an article that has made me rethink Morris. Per DRA, which wasn't created at the time of his last appearance on the ballot, he really was facing tougher competition over his career than most pitchers of his era. That was a big argument for voters who supported him and, it turns out, they were right even if they didn't specifically have the numbers at the time to back up the argument. http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=26706 quote:Morris’s Career DRA PWARP: 64.1
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Jan 4, 2017 18:57
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MinibarMatchman posted:Sorry but statistically Schilling doesn't touch the past few pitchers who have been enshrined. If it wasn't for 2001 and 2004's heroics nobody would give a gently caress about him getting in. He still had a decent chance to get voted in just based on those performances alone but decided to piss away the coin flip decision by being a loving dipshit. I can understand people wanting Bonds/Clemens finally voted in but nobody will hugely care when Schilling gets left off. People saying he'd have gotten in "first ballot" otherwise are crazy. Nah, he's a Hall of Famer even if you ignore the playoffs. Schilling was insanely good by the advanced sabermetric stats of "striking out a bunch of dudes" and "walking very few of them." So much so that his K/BB is 4th all-time, behind 3 current pitchers (Tanaka, Syndergaard, Sale) still in their prime. Like, remember when Kershaw hit 300 Ks and everyone jizzed themselves? Schilling did that three times. Comparing Schilling to recent inductees, he's better than Glavine, with a lot less innings though tbf. He also hates Muslims.
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Jan 4, 2017 18:58
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The Pussy Boss posted:Nah, he's a Hall of Famer even if you ignore the playoffs. Schilling was insanely good by the advanced sabermetric stats of "striking out a bunch of dudes" and "walking very few of them." So much so that his K/BB is 4th all-time, behind 3 current pitchers (Tanaka, Syndergaard, Sale) still in their prime. Like, remember when Kershaw hit 300 Ks and everyone jizzed themselves? Schilling did that three times. Comparing Schilling to recent inductees, he's better than Glavine, with a lot less innings though tbf. What's funny about Glavine was that he was, in some ways, more "the professor" than Maddux. Maddux had the pitches, control, and stuff to strike guys out. Glavine was using his fielders to his advantage to get batters to get themselves out, which went away in New York.
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Jan 4, 2017 18:59
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Don't kid yourself, people called Maddux "The Professor" because he wore glasses.
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Jan 4, 2017 19:23
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Glavine started each game a couple inches outside the plate and added a bit every inning he got away with it. If he was going to get hit hard, it was usually early on, before he had the opposite batter's box to throw strikes to. It wasn't that hitters didn't know what was coming, they just were put way outside where they wanted to be swinging. Maddux had both fastball and changeup that would end up about an inch or two away from where batters were swinging, and he'd ultimately have hitters psyching themselves out by overthinking what was coming. Hence the name. (And why Gwynn destroyed him, cause he'd just slap it anywhere.)
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Jan 4, 2017 19:30
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MinibarMatchman posted:Sorry but statistically Schilling doesn't touch the past few pitchers who have been enshrined. If you're using Pedro Martinez and Randy Johnson as benchmarks for the HoF then you'd have to kick out half the current members. However the third pitcher to get voted in in 2015 was John Smoltz and Clemens was very definitely better than him.
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Jan 4, 2017 20:07
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Actually, I figured it out. Tom Glavine just sucked and couldn't throw strikes, but Javy Lopez was the greatest pitch framer of all time. But nobody knew about pitch framing back then or Lopez would be in the Hall instead of Glavine. Chalk up another win for advanced stats.
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Jan 4, 2017 20:11
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My opinion is Curt Schilling is a dick and I don't care particularly how good he was at baseball.
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Jan 4, 2017 21:13
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Let all these loving guys. Who gives a poo poo if he's a terrible person? It's a sports league hall of fame not a Nobel prize. Come at me
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Jan 4, 2017 21:15
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LeftistMuslimObama posted:My opinion is Curt Schilling is a dick and I don't care particularly how good he was at baseball. He could learn a lot from how friendly and appreciative Bonds has become as he ages.
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Jan 4, 2017 21:15
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It's funny how Mark Trumbo is going to get a big multiyear contract, while the Mets can't seem to give Jay Bruce away, despite the fact that they are basically the exact same player.
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Jan 4, 2017 21:28
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The Pussy Boss posted:It's funny how Mark Trumbo is going to get a big multiyear contract, while the Mets can't seem to give Jay Bruce away, despite the fact that they are basically the exact same player. Jay Bruce can play a defensive position, Trumbo can't.
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Jan 4, 2017 21:40
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Der Meister posted:Let all these loving guys. Who gives a poo poo if he's a terrible person? It's a sports league hall of fame not a Nobel prize. Come at me However, advocating for the lynching of the voter base who is responsible for electing you is probably not going to be a successful induction tactic.
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Jan 4, 2017 21:43
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MinibarMatchman posted:LOL what? Madison Bumgarner is arguably better than even Schilling in the postseason so far and he isn't even that old. Also a 2.23 ERA in the highest offensive era of the past 50 years, playing home games in hitters parks like Fenway and Chase, compared to a 2.11 ERA in the lowest offensive era since the 60's, playing home games in one of the most extreme pitchers parks in the game today. Schilling was better. Bumgarner still has time to overtake him.
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Jan 4, 2017 21:49
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Schilling was really, really good. The hall shouldn't be some kind of morality metric, it is for the best players. Unless you commit some kind of terrible crime or otherwise excuse yourself from polite society your public persona/character shouldn't matter.
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Jan 4, 2017 21:57
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Der Meister posted:Let all these loving guys. Who gives a poo poo if he's a terrible person? It's a sports league hall of fame not a Nobel prize. Come at me When a sports player does something lovely people tend to just go "Whelp, what do you expect from a sports player? At least he's good at his job." I just think if people stopped tacitly endorsing lovely behavior from talented athletes maybe talented athletes would behave less lovely.
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Jan 4, 2017 22:05
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bewbies posted:Schilling was really, really good. The hall shouldn't be some kind of morality metric, it is for the best players. Unless you commit some kind of terrible crime or otherwise excuse yourself from polite society your public persona/character shouldn't matter. Is bilking the state of Rhode Island out of millions of dollars terrible enough?
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Jan 4, 2017 22:23
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rickiep00h posted:Is bilking the state of Rhode Island out of millions of dollars terrible enough?
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Jan 4, 2017 22:29
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It's not the "politics" it's because he literally advocated for the lynching of the very group of people who are responsible for his induction This poo poo isn't complicated.
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Jan 4, 2017 22:31
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Yeah I'm pretty sure Schilling could be the most obnoxious right wing shithead on twitter and he'd still coast into the HoF easy, do try to remember that a lot of BBWAA voters are also old white guys too. What's going to cost Schilling his HoF bid is not only his "lynch journalists" tweet, but also the huge twitter rant he went on against Heyman, Matthews, etc after they said they didn't vote for him as a result. Politics has nothing to do with it: Schilling is running himself out of the Hall because he's relentlessly attacking the very people whose votes he needs to get in.
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Jan 4, 2017 22:46
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Just remembered that the Red Sox have David Price and Chris Sale and the Jays are going to respond with either Jay Bruce or Literally Nothing. 
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Jan 4, 2017 22:47
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Worked for Trump.
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Jan 4, 2017 22:47
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elentar posted:Maddux had both fastball and changeup that would end up about an inch or two away from where batters were swinging, and he'd ultimately have hitters psyching themselves out by overthinking what was coming. Hence the name. (And why Gwynn destroyed him, cause he'd just slap it anywhere.) There's a story I've heard a few times which is probably not true but sounds very Madduxish where in the 90s the Braves and Astros were playing a game that was a blowout and he got Bagwell into a two strike count, then served him up a high fastball that Bagwell sent to the moon. The exact same situation came about again in the playoffs and this time he struck him out with a change, and had actually used the blowout game to intentionally give up a homerun and get Bagwell to try to read a tendency I'm sure it's 100% bullshit but it's still a pretty funny story Who was that Dodgers pitcher who suddenly got way better when Maddux began calling games from the dugout for him?
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Jan 4, 2017 23:00
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bawfuls posted:Someone reminded me on facebook that Ebbets Field Flannels is doing their annual clearance sale now. Lots of goofy tshirts and hats from old minor/independent/negro league teams. This is awesome, picked up the Cienfuegos Elefantes shirt.
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Jan 4, 2017 23:07
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rickiep00h posted:Is bilking the state of Rhode Island out of millions of dollars terrible enough? by the standards of the baseball hall of fame no and it isn't close
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Jan 4, 2017 23:09
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Intruder posted:
Billingsley?
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Jan 4, 2017 23:57
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Der Meister posted:Let all these loving guys. Who gives a poo poo if he's a terrible person? It's a sports league hall of fame not a Nobel prize. Come at me I agree in principle but I'm totally fine with the writers making him sweat until he comes groveling.
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Jan 5, 2017 00:22
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bawfuls posted:It's not the "politics" it's because he literally advocated for the lynching of the very group of people who are responsible for his induction Yeah, its not like the hall isn't filled with a bunch of right wingers already, but most of them pretty much kept their politics to themselves.
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Jan 5, 2017 00:30
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Intruder posted:There's a story I've heard a few times which is probably not true but sounds very Madduxish where in the 90s the Braves and Astros were playing a game that was a blowout and he got Bagwell into a two strike count, then served him up a high fastball that Bagwell sent to the moon. The exact same situation came about again in the playoffs and this time he struck him out with a change, and had actually used the blowout game to intentionally give up a homerun and get Bagwell to try to read a tendency My favourite 100% bullshit Maddux story is that he and another guy were standing at the railing in the 3rd base dugout. The batter fouls off a pitch and Maddux says to the other guy "hey, watch out". Next pitch the batter rips a line drive foul into the dugout and nearly beheads the other guy. It's vaguely possible it's an Olbermann story but I can't remember for sure.
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Jan 5, 2017 00:30
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Paul Zuvella posted:Jay Bruce can play a defensive position, Trumbo can't. Debatable. Anyway, I just think it's funny how players like that are valued. People laughed at the DBacks and then the Mariners for trading for Mark Trumbo. Strikes out too much, bad glove, doesn't get on base. Then he has a probably unsustainable spike in HR/FB, hits 47 dingers, and now he's a premier free agent.
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Jan 5, 2017 00:42
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The dumb GMs are going to look at the 47 HRs and try to sign him immediately. The better GMs are going to look at his OPS+, his WAR, and the left-field dimensions of Camden Yards.
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Jan 5, 2017 00:55
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https://twitter.com/ScrappyGymRat/status/757658097246765056
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Jan 5, 2017 01:20
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Julio Cruz posted:The dumb GMs are going to look at the 47 HRs and try to sign him immediately. The better GMs are going to look at his OPS+, his WAR, and the left-field dimensions of Camden Yards. There must not be any dumb GMs left because it's January and there's been barely any interest at all.
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Jan 5, 2017 01:31
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IcePhoenix posted:Don't kid yourself, people called Maddux "The Professor" because he wore glasses. i thought it was because he looked like a nerd. But then again those things all go together, so.... bawfuls posted:It's not the "politics" it's because he literally advocated for the lynching of the very group of people who are responsible for his induction Well, that kind of *is* politics, though. Judging someone based on personal feelings instead of performance is like the very definition of that usage of "politics." Numbers alone he's a borderline case. His feelings toward journalists shouldn't count on whether he gets enshrined. Note that I know it *does* count and your post is 100% correct, and that I don't entirely disagree. The optics are terrible. But personal feelings about someone's character shouldn't count. Otherwise Ty Cobb and Ted Williams (and others) wouldn't be in. BigBallChunkyTime fucked around with this message at 02:08 on Jan 5, 2017 |
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Jan 5, 2017 02:03
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Please. I call this "every day."
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Jan 5, 2017 02:04
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Your Taint posted:Otherwise Ty Cobb and Ted Williams (and others) wouldn't be in. I have never liked this argument. Our culture is different than when they went in. Why can't the criteria be different? We don't have to keep doing the same stuff just because that's what we've always done.
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Jan 5, 2017 02:55
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