Without Love, It Cannot Be Seen - Let's Play Umineko

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CottonWolf: Jul 20, 2012; Good ideas generator

Qrr posted:

As Battler, I would go for repetition requested: right before Nanjos death, Eva, Battler, Jessica, and Nanjo were the only living humans on Rokkenjima. If she won't say that then the "Shannon died but Sayo didn't" theory could be a contender.

If that did get repeated in red, then I might have to resign. That was a lot of red in that update.

ModernMajorGeneral posted:

Has it been established that the 15 dead people are dead at the time Nanjo was killed? Evatrice established that 15 people died and none of the 3 survivors killed him, but she only stated Nanjo was the last victim in white, so maybe one of the original 'victims' killed him and died afterwards.

I'm confused by how this game defines witches ("there are no more than 18 people on the island" and "Nanjo was killed by a human who is not one of the 18, the witch [but a witch is a human who can use magic]") seem to contradict themselves. Not sure if this is just opaque language or an actual plot point.

I think that this is the key. We have only got confirmation of Hideyoshi, Rudolf and Kyrie's deaths in red just now. Not immediately after their deaths in story. So it's not clear that they were dead when Nanjo was killed. As it's now pretty much confirmed that Rudolf and Kyrie weren't in on it, and we're pretty sure that Hideyoshi was an accomplice, you just hypothesise that Hideyoshi had a wound that, while mortal, didn't kill him immediately. He kills Nanjo first, then dies. Voila, red truths all met.

I also like this theory conceptually, as we know multiple personalities are running around:

tiistai posted:

Nanjo was in fact killed by his alternate personality, Dr. Lou. He held the gun in his own face.

What's that? The culprit appeared before Nanjo's eyes? That's because he was looking in a mirror.

My scenario fits with the red, so no point trying to deny it. Except Prof's red, but he's not Umineko so he doesn't count.

CottonWolf fucked around with this message at 21:56 on Jan 6, 2017

# ? Jan 6, 2017 21:53

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# ? May 11, 2024 08:01

witchcore ricepunk: Jul 6, 2003; The Golden Witch
Who Solved the Epitaph

A Probability of 1/2,578,917

Noting the mismatch between the red truths and the perceived times of death is a really smart observation! Ugh, now I see why Beato was so disappointed. So many potential ways to wriggle out of this, Battler, you idiot!

# ? Jan 6, 2017 22:04

bman in 2288: Apr 21, 2010

Ah! Does this mean that I was... wrong again? How distressing. I'm starting to get how Battler feels.

# ? Jan 6, 2017 22:09

CottonWolf: Jul 20, 2012; Good ideas generator

Tender Child Loins posted:

RIP to Umineko's real MVP

Oh god. I only just noticed the chimp arms. This is horrifying... (ly) amazing.

# ? Jan 6, 2017 22:16

Quinn2win: Nov 9, 2011; Foolish child of man...
After reading all this,
do you still not understand?

Fun fact: I've been a fan of this game since about 2013, with friends who have been on it since it came out, and we still get in heated debates sometimes about what's actually going on with this murder.

# ? Jan 6, 2017 22:25

PlaceholderPigeon: Dec 31, 2012

Really enjoying this thread! I coincidentally picked up the steam version and then found this while going through - just finished Episode 4. (Now I need to figure out how to play 5-8)

Tender Child Loins posted:

Noting the mismatch between the red truths and the perceived times of death is a really smart observation! Ugh, now I see why Beato was so disappointed. So many potential ways to wriggle out of this, Battler, you idiot!

It is kind of a tactic that he hasn't really faced before though.

Beato's been using red truths in a deliberate, controlled way. She responds to assertions by denying them in red, and then waits for Battler's next theory before deploying more red. But EVA is throwing out a pile of red truths at once to overwhelm and to make analyzing the meaning of each individual truth more difficult. It pulls attention away from the things she doesn't want to show - like possibly the time sensitive nature of red truths. To use the sword fighting metaphor the game so likes, she's attacking in a flurry to hide her weak spot, rather than deflecting blows to that spot as they come. It can seem insurmountable until you realize what the person is doing.

Battler seems to be the kind of guy who needs to lose to a strategy before he can handle it, but he always comes back stronger for doing so.

PlaceholderPigeon fucked around with this message at 22:32 on Jan 6, 2017

# ? Jan 6, 2017 22:25

CottonWolf: Jul 20, 2012; Good ideas generator

ProfessorProf posted:

Fun fact: I've been a fan of this game since about 2013, with friends who have been on it since it came out, and we still get in heated debates sometimes about what's actually going on with this murder.

I take it that means we're not getting any kind of conclusive answer any time soon then.

# ? Jan 6, 2017 22:27

Quinn2win: Nov 9, 2011; Foolish child of man...
After reading all this,
do you still not understand?

To spoil as little as possible - Umineko will eventually give you answers, but it won't make everything easy for you.

# ? Jan 6, 2017 22:28

Robindaybird: Aug 21, 2007; Neat. Sweet. Petite.

or the difference between using a single-action rifle and someone using a shotgun on a pheasant, Beato's precise, Evatrice doesn't care about the integrity of the game she just shot.

# ? Jan 6, 2017 22:30

oath2order: Oct 12, 2013; It's MAGIC. I don't have to explain shit!

CottonWolf posted:

I take it that means we're not getting any kind of conclusive answer any time soon then.

To spoil as little as possible--Magic Exists.

But yeah. I can promise there are answers to these riddles. This isnt gonna be some LOST deal. I probably could explain 99% of the poo poo that goes on in these games.

with magic

oath2order fucked around with this message at 22:44 on Jan 6, 2017

# ? Jan 6, 2017 22:32

Lights: Dec 9, 2007; Lights, the Peacock King, First of His Name.

Tender Child Loins posted:

Noting the mismatch between the red truths and the perceived times of death is a really smart observation! Ugh, now I see why Beato was so disappointed. So many potential ways to wriggle out of this, Battler, you idiot!

Well, he is incompetent, after all.

# ? Jan 6, 2017 23:49

NachtSieger: Apr 10, 2013

bman in 2288 posted:

As long as I can contribute something useful to this thread, I'm golden.

Hello, Beatrice.

tiistai posted:

That would be like denying herself.

She didn't say it was her, in red. :colbert:

EDIT: Dr. Manhattan is the killer.

# ? Jan 7, 2017 00:06

resurgam40: Jul 22, 2007; Battler, the literal stupidest man on earth. Why are you even here, Battler, why did you come back to this place so you could fuck literally everything up?

PlaceholderPigeon posted:

Battler seems to be the kind of guy who needs to lose to a strategy before he can handle it, but he always comes back stronger for doing so.

Ah, a bit like Taran, then? Seems to fit with what I've seen for Battler, then; pain and sorrow might be a hell of a teacher, but for some folks, it is the best (and kind of only :sweatdrop:

) way to learn.

Anyhow, I too completely missed that the times of death were not ascertained in red, which leads to a very good sticking point indeed, so maybe I shouldn't be throwing stones. All I really know for sure is that I hate these drat witches so much you guys, you have no idea.

# ? Jan 7, 2017 00:19

Like Clockwork: Feb 17, 2012; It's only the Final Battle once all the players are ready.

I didn't notice the lack of times given either, but I was also very focused on the "Shannon is dead, Sayo is alive" theory so that's not surprising.

That is a pretty big hole to leave open, though; Evatrice must have been banking on Battler being overwhelmed by red. And in all fairness, it worked until Beato stepped in.

# ? Jan 7, 2017 00:23

Dr Pepper: Feb 4, 2012; Don't like it? well...

So, time of death theoirizers.

Who could have survived to shoot Dr. Nanjo and how did they die after killing him?

# ? Jan 7, 2017 00:40

bman in 2288: Apr 21, 2010

resurgam40 posted:

Ah, a bit like Taran, then? Seems to fit with what I've seen for Battler, then; pain and sorrow might be a hell of a teacher, but for some folks, it is the best (and kind of only ) way to learn.

Holy poo poo, I'm always surprised to see this thing pop up. I feel like I'm the only one I know who's ever those books.

# ? Jan 7, 2017 01:15

CottonWolf: Jul 20, 2012; Good ideas generator

Dr Pepper posted:

So, time of death theoirizers.

Who could have survived to shoot Dr. Nanjo and how did they die after killing him?

I still like my Hideyoshi delayed death theory, bleeding out through a stabbing or gunshot wound, but I just spotted something that makes me think that the Shannon/Sayo theorisers were probably right all along.

From the tips stuff on the first page:

ProfessorProf posted:

They pretty much confirm it there. "She" and talking about it being shocking that they were still alive. Shannon/Sayo is the only person that that makes sense to be referring to.

Edit: Unless you want the "everyone was right" theory, where Hideyoshi is uninjured and kills Nanjo, then leaves. Then Shannon/Sayo kills him as revenge for killing George, which nicely sidesteps the face that Shannon has no obvious motive for wanting Nanjo dead. So you have an "out of order murders" part and a "Shannon only died a psychological death" part.

CottonWolf fucked around with this message at 01:37 on Jan 7, 2017

# ? Jan 7, 2017 01:32

MonsterEnvy: Feb 4, 2012; Shocked I tell you

CottonWolf posted:

I still like my Hideyoshi delayed death theory, bleeding out through a stabbing or gunshot wound, but I just spotted something that makes me think that the Shannon/Sayo theorisers were probably right all along.

From the tips stuff on the first page:

They pretty much confirm it there. "She" and talking about it being shocking that they were still alive. Shannon/Sayo is the only person that that makes sense to be referring to.

Edit: Unless you want the "everyone was right" theory, where Hideyoshi is uninjured and kills Nanjo, then leaves. Then Shannon/Sayo kills him as revenge for killing George, which nicely sidesteps the face that Shannon has no real obvious motive for wanting Nanjo dead. So you have an out of order murders part and a Shannon was alive all along part.

Well Shannon has no real obvious motive for wanting a lot of people who are dead here dead.

# ? Jan 7, 2017 01:36

CottonWolf: Jul 20, 2012; Good ideas generator

Fair point. Regardless of who the killer is, the motives for all these murders are at best poorly defined (thus far at least).

oath2order posted:

To spoil as little as possible--Magic Exists.

But yeah. I can promise there are answers to these riddles. This isnt gonna be some LOST deal. I probably could explain 99% of the poo poo that goes on in these games.

with magic

Dangerous pro-witch propaganda!

CottonWolf fucked around with this message at 01:49 on Jan 7, 2017

# ? Jan 7, 2017 01:38

Fabulousvillain: May 2, 2015

May as well get my dumb theory out of the way before Beato answers for us. I noticed that when Battler asked about Multiple personalities she denied Jessica doing it and not Eva's body. So I'm gonna say it was the Eva Beatrice personality that killed Nanjo using Eva's body. She did so under the supervision of Battler, but just under his nose so that Nanjo could see this happening and Battler could not. Obviously Jessica could not see this happening, but it would have to be quiet enough that at least Battler could not hear it since it would have happened just before a door was shut while Jessica may or may not have discovered what happened.

# ? Jan 7, 2017 01:50

Rody One Half: Feb 18, 2011

The murder motive is pretty explicitly defined actually. Gotta revive Beatrice and reach the Golden Land.

# ? Jan 7, 2017 01:50

PlaceholderPigeon: Dec 31, 2012

resurgam40 posted:

Ah, a bit like Taran, then? Seems to fit with what I've seen for Battler, then; pain and sorrow might be a hell of a teacher, but for some folks, it is the best (and kind of only ) way to learn.

Its not like he can take Critical Thinking courses between games too. He's pretty much laying the track in front of him as he goes along

PlaceholderPigeon fucked around with this message at 02:36 on Jan 7, 2017

# ? Jan 7, 2017 02:17

MonsterEnvy: Feb 4, 2012; Shocked I tell you

Fabulousvillain posted:

May as well get my dumb theory out of the way before Beato answers for us. I noticed that when Battler asked about Multiple personalities she denied Jessica doing it and not Eva's body. So I'm gonna say it was the Eva Beatrice personality that killed Nanjo using Eva's body. She did so under the supervision of Battler, but just under his nose so that Nanjo could see this happening and Battler could not. Obviously Jessica could not see this happening, but it would have to be quiet enough that at least Battler could not hear it since it would have happened just before a door was shut while Jessica may or may not have discovered what happened.

This does not work.

Eva was under his supervision the whole time and never had a chance. And Eva's body had nothing to do with the murder. Both of these are stated in Red.

# ? Jan 7, 2017 02:19

idonotlikepeas: May 29, 2010; This reasoning is possible for forums user idonotlikepeas!

bman in 2288 posted:

Holy poo poo, I'm always surprised to see this thing pop up. I feel like I'm the only one I know who's ever those books.

poo poo no, those books are amazing.

I would also like you all to know that on the way to a show tonight, I ran across a fresh cigarette butt on the sidewalk, still smoking, and actually caught myself wondering if I could figure out what brand it was if I picked it up. This is your fault, thread.

# ? Jan 7, 2017 02:24

Lord Koth: Jan 8, 2012

Fabulousvillain posted:

May as well get my dumb theory out of the way before Beato answers for us. I noticed that when Battler asked about Multiple personalities she denied Jessica doing it and not Eva's body. So I'm gonna say it was the Eva Beatrice personality that killed Nanjo using Eva's body. She did so under the supervision of Battler, but just under his nose so that Nanjo could see this happening and Battler could not. Obviously Jessica could not see this happening, but it would have to be quiet enough that at least Battler could not hear it since it would have happened just before a door was shut while Jessica may or may not have discovered what happened.

Eva refutes this literally in the same paragraph she says Jessica's body had nothing to do with the murder.

This also applies to Battler and Eva.

This is even aside from the red regarding Battler watching Eva and giving her no chance.

# ? Jan 7, 2017 02:43

resurgam40: Jul 22, 2007; Battler, the literal stupidest man on earth. Why are you even here, Battler, why did you come back to this place so you could fuck literally everything up?

bman in 2288 posted:

Holy poo poo, I'm always surprised to see this thing pop up. I feel like I'm the only one I know who's ever those books.

Nope, I read them in my youth, though I don't really know anyone else who did... I guess I'm not surprised, since they are kinda dark and sad as a whole* (and that stupid Disney movie didn't really help either, God, what a piece of poo poo...). Always glad to meet someone else who knows about Prydain; let's hear it for sad fantasy :toot:

*Seriously, I'm not kidding about the "pain and suffering" part; you think life hates Battler? The plucky young orphaned farmboy with a taste for adventure- the guy with Chosen One written on his brow- finds his destiny not through might magic or cunning, but in being a stupid fuckup who gets life lessons beaten into him with a sledgehammer. His "glorious quests", such as they are, typically consist of him breaking stuff, getting his rear end handed to him in combat, disappointing his friends and allies, and generally being wrong about pretty much everything - all the while having his nose rubbed in about how completely unimportant he is in the grand scheme of things, the loving pig he looks after is more magical and important than he is (she can tell the future you see... that's a good pig)- before just barely pulling out a win. Even in all of his incompetence, Battler Ushiromiya got nothing on Taran, Assistant Pig Keeper.

CottonWolf posted:

I still like my Hideyoshi delayed death theory, bleeding out through a stabbing or gunshot wound, but I just spotted something that makes me think that the Shannon/Sayo theorisers were probably right all along.

From the tips stuff on the first page:

They pretty much confirm it there. "She" and talking about it being shocking that they were still alive. Shannon/Sayo is the only person that that makes sense to be referring to.

Edit: Unless you want the "everyone was right" theory, where Hideyoshi is uninjured and kills Nanjo, then leaves. Then Shannon/Sayo kills him as revenge for killing George, which nicely sidesteps the face that Shannon has no obvious motive for wanting Nanjo dead. So you have an "out of order murders" part and a "Shannon only died a psychological death" part.

I never saw those messages before...Holy crap, it might actually be Sayo. The only other thing I can think of ti fit the "she" there is Eva herself, but she never died, did she? Maybe it might also be referring to Kyrie, but again, why kill Nanjo?

# ? Jan 7, 2017 02:49

MonsterEnvy: Feb 4, 2012; Shocked I tell you

resurgam40 posted:

I never saw those messages before...Holy crap, it might actually be Sayo. The only other thing I can think of ti fit the "she" there is Eva herself, but she never died, did she? Maybe it might also be referring to Kyrie, but again, why kill Nanjo?

Well the Hideyoshi thing could be Kyrie.

# ? Jan 7, 2017 02:56

idonotlikepeas: May 29, 2010; This reasoning is possible for forums user idonotlikepeas!

That's exactly why Taran is so amazing. He doesn't just get handed his magical destiny on a silver platter, he becomes a great man because he makes himself great, and because he is constantly faced with hard decisions with terrible consequences that forge him into a better person.

# ? Jan 7, 2017 02:59

oath2order: Oct 12, 2013; It's MAGIC. I don't have to explain shit!

Kaninrail posted:

Well, he is incompetent, after all.

Lord Koth posted:

Eva refutes this literally in the same paragraph she says Jessica's body had nothing to do with the murder.

This also applies to Battler and Eva.

This is even aside from the red regarding Battler watching Eva and giving her no chance.

Jeez, does know one here know how to Red Text? I guess you are incompetent.

# ? Jan 7, 2017 03:17

Lord Koth: Jan 8, 2012

oath2order posted:

Jeez, does know one here know how to Red Text? I guess you are incompetent.

...Probably because I wasn't red texting, but rather was emphasizing that line to highlight the Battler and Eva part. If I'd been red texting, I would have used the entire segment. Certainly someone just failed to Red Text correctly. :v:

# ? Jan 7, 2017 03:21

bman in 2288: Apr 21, 2010

Oh, wait, lemme try.

Cats are pretty great.

...What were we talking about, again?

# ? Jan 7, 2017 03:29

Fabulousvillain: May 2, 2015

Lord Koth posted:

Aw beans, I must've missed this one. Well if I were in Battler's shoes in this situation, assuming Beatrice wasn't about to save my sorry rear end. It would be the point where I call for a break till I have an argument, and by that I mean procrastinate for an eternity. Probably sitting at the tea table going "hmm" for the first 200 years. If none of that works out I'd probably whine like loosing in Mario Party due to some monopoly bullshit and drag it out for eternity. Those games make me angry.

# ? Jan 7, 2017 03:57

Qrr: Aug 14, 2015

oath2order posted:

To spoil as little as possible--Magic Exists.

But yeah. I can promise there are answers to these riddles. This isnt gonna be some LOST deal. I probably could explain 99% of the poo poo that goes on in these games.

with magic

I continue to believe that red text applies to magic too, because if it doesn't then it's not true. Also, witches are totes human, Beatrice and Evatrice aren't fooling anyone. Luckily that doesn't cause a conflict with any of the red text because magic isn't real.

MonsterEnvy posted:

Well Shannon has no real obvious motive for wanting a lot of people who are dead here dead.

Could be more than one killer working separately - Eva didn't find the gold until after the first deaths, after all.

Or of course there's the "devil's proof" that we don't need to figure out a motive, only say that one could potentially exist. Man, that's a terrible argument.

# ? Jan 7, 2017 05:27

Quinn2win: Nov 9, 2011; Foolish child of man...
After reading all this,
do you still not understand?

BGM: Thanks for Being Born

The teacher and the butler were both startled. I also immediately understood what it meant.

To use the red that only witches could use. To use the red to deny witches. It was like using her own sword to slit her own throat.

"...Wh-Whaaat...?! H-Hey, what are you saying? Deny witches with red...?"

"...Q-Quit talking like an idiot. If you do that, you won't get away unscathed either...!!"

"...Very well then. Right here, right now, there have never been any witches in the first place. I will strip this deception away myself."

"Aren't both of us real, obvious witches?!! Being able to use red is itself proof of witches!"

"I don't know what the definition of a witch is to you, but if you think that you alone will be able to get away unscathed, then-"

"How could I make such a mistake? I care not."

"Wh... What did you say...?"

"I never did manage to become a witch. I've done nothing more than finally begin walking down the road to becoming a true witch."

"...If what I am right now is a witch, then I'm a false witch like you, one who is merely drunk on power."

"...Rather than existing in that shabby form, I shall erase this form of mine along with you, without any regrets...!"

"...A-Are you insane?!?! S-Stop it...! I still wanna be a witch! I hate being Human...!!"

"...Witch-sama, please return to your seat. Please, receive the human side's counter from your seat."

"Wh-What are you doing?! L-Let go of me!! Don't let that woman use the red!! Make her stop!! Let gooooooooooooooooooo!!"

As the witch stood from her seat and tried to spring upon Beato, Ronove pressed down on both of her shoulders, forcing her back into her seat. And, even after that, he didn't remove his hands from those shoulders.

Denying witches was the same thing as denying magic. That included demons such as Ronove. However, instead of running away, Ronove chose to act as the facilitator for the game, and to carry out that duty for his master's sake.

"That's my line. Sorry, Teacher. Even though you taught me so much about fun magic and magic that brings happiness, I wasn't able to use it well at all. So I'll study from square one... and start over again. I am truly sorry... that you had to suffer for your stupid disciple's misconduct."

"...I had a good disciple in the very end. Go, do what you believe in."

"...But I do understand one thing. And I can say this... Beato, I don't know what you're trying to do, but stop trying to do it...!"

"You have no moves. But I have one. If we let that move get away, she will be revived as a witch in the truest sense, and this time, she will control this whole island. All nightmares will be hers to do with as she pleases, and this island will fall into the deepest hell of the evil witch's repeating delusions, for all eternity."

"...Can you permit that? Don't you care if your dear relatives are toyed with for all eternity in that witch's nightmare?"

"S-Still, you shouldn't have to sacrifice yourself... Th-This is a game between me and her."

"You shouldn't have to make your move and sacrifice yourself! I-I'll think of something! I'll surely think of a miraculous move...!!"

"So don't rush into it!!" Aaaaaaaaaaahhhhh, drat iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit, I'll definitely think of one, so don't rush into iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit!!"

"...This game is cruel. The time limit for your consideration has already run out. I am now the only one who can do it."

"Calm yourself, Battler. I'll defeat her. I'll defeat that cruel witch with my own hands..."

"W-Wait, Beato!! Stop it, quit it!! There's absolutely no need for you to sacrifice yourself!!"

"Weren't you fighting to deny me? What a strange person. Hahahahahahahaha."

"...Let that child do as she likes. And please, watch her until the end."

"...B-But..."

"My ears...? Why...?"

"...Starting now, I will deny witches in red. I will slice up the game board that she has laid out with her red. By doing that... I will probably lose my form as a witch as well. If you also hear the red truth I speak, you will understand my true form."

"...If you alone cover your ears, that truth will not change at all. However, even so, I want you alone to cover your ears. I at least want to be a witch... in your eyes. Please."

"...Beatrice-sama, there are no problems on the witch side. Please, your move."

"Let gooooooooooooooooooo!! I won't let you get away with this either, okay?!"

"She's insane!! Do you plan on dying and taking us with you?! Stop it, don't deny it!! Stop iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit!!!"

"...How unsightly for a Golden Witch. Okay, are you ready? I will remove your check in Battler's stead. What happened on the chessboard where 15 died and only three remained? Starting now, I will expose it in red. With that red truth, I will pierce and kill both fake witches!"

Most likely, no one would believe that the witch who had gone to the limits of cruelty... would try to leave a smile as the last expression she showed Battler. And that smile signified her last wish, that she wanted him to cover his ears... Denying witches in red... was the same as knowing her shabby form.

Battler put both of his hands against his ears... To protect her final... bit of honor as a witch, he put his hands against his ears, rejecting the truth.

After that... was a world where Battler could hear nothing. Beato was saying something in red. Even the evil witch covered her ears at those bitter contents. That was... the red truth. Words of power. Words that denied her own existence. Unique words that only witches could use, which denied witches.

Beato spoke. With the red truth, she cut up the bright-red game board that the witch had released. She explained difficult problems that could not be solved by humans, with moves that could only be solved by witches, and began cornering the witch. The 'truth' that Battler was not permitted to hear.

If Battler had broken his promise and sneakily eavesdropped... In an instant, Battler would probably have been able to become the victor in his game with Beato. He would probably have understood all the riddles on the island, all of the magic and tricks, closed rooms, spells, curses, legends, and this entire tale of anger and sadness. However, Battler would only learn what that was when he reached the truth by himself.

Yes... From the beginning, Beatrice had wished that Battler would reach that truth by himself. It was something one shouldn't reach by being told it. It was a truth that Battler would have to drag himself to by his own power. A brilliant light gathered with Beato and the evil witch at the center... and grew gradually stronger...

It was...the power of truth. Its heat and brilliance like the sun... shone on all the falsehoods that hid in the darkness, trying to deceive, and burnt them to nothing.

"...Learn that even with a mountain of gold, even with magic to split the sea, there are some things you can never obtain. Come, show yourself. Show your true form, Ushiromiya Eva!!!"

When the sun exploded and blew everything away... Eva could be seen there, holding a gun.

Without any hesitation or mercy, Eva raised her gun and pulled the trigger. As an explosive sound rang out, Battler's heart was shot through, and he fell to the floor. After going into convulsions for a short time, with blood dripping from his mouth... Battler died...

But in his last moments, he realized without a doubt that she was a murderer. And not just for killing him... There have been many murders, and I don't have a clue how they were carried out. However, while my ears were covered, Beato exposed all of them with the red, blasting away all magic. In other words, even though I didn't understand it, was that nothing more or less than proof that magic can all be explained with humans?

...Beato made me cover my ears. So I myself don't know the whole truth.

So, in other words... No, I must not think of that. If I do, then the time I spent covered my ears would be made pointless. If I'm going to regret, I can only regret my own actions. If, at that time, I'd thought of some move to spin things around and counter the witch's final move, there would have been no need for Beato to sacrifice herself.