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Maxwell Lord posted:And why kill the captain of the Tantive IV? This retroactively made more sense to me after Rogue One. The guy's still sputtering about how they're on a diplomatic mission and have no idea what he's talking about when we know thanks to Rogue One that Vader literally just slaughtered a bunch of guys during a major battle that were handing the plans onto the Tantive IV and chased them through hyperspace from that same battle. And this guy is still trying to act like nothing happened.
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Jan 7, 2017 05:45
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Vader is just Bigger Anakin.
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Jan 7, 2017 05:50
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I want to say that all this talk about who Vader murders and why, it reminds me that my favorite kill is when he pancakes the guy on the wall of the Tantive IV in A New Hope. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r125_IWLAEE
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Jan 7, 2017 06:50
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Okay stop the thread everybody, I saw Rogue One! It was very good. Much better than the Abrams movie. Only complaints - +Holy loly that Princess Leia at the end. Like they did decent with Tarkin but Princess Leia just looks like a ghoul, man. +The long closeup with Jyn Erso crying while her dad monologues. That didn't feel very Star Wars? Like it was incredible how much this felt like a Star Wars movie but that one nod to modern filmmaking felt a little jarring. +I had a third complaint but I forgot it. I guess it was weird and disappointing Jyn and Cassian didn't kiss. You're going to get vaporized in two seconds, mash yer fuckin faces together. "I like you, but as a friend!" "Meh, my life was okay, I guess!" Okay that was it real thoughts tomorrow maybe actually probably never.
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Jan 7, 2017 07:33
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Phi230 posted:Except Krennic got instantly vaporized since he was atop the tower where the beam hit. Nah, that was totally some hotshot Imperial gunner noscoping the transmitter dish. That was a beautiful shot.
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Jan 7, 2017 08:50
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WENTZ WAGON NUI posted:Okay stop the thread everybody, I saw Rogue One! we're probs outside of the realm of spoiler tags at this point
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Jan 7, 2017 09:30
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theflyingexecutive posted:we're probs outside of the realm of spoiler tags at this point Spoiler tags are always a considerate move. As is proper spelling and punctuation.
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Jan 7, 2017 09:41
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sassassin posted:Spoiler tags are always a considerate move. oh poo poo just got sassassinated.
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Jan 7, 2017 11:24
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Magic Hate Ball posted:Vader is just Bigger Anakin. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_H3_g9PhnM&t
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Jan 7, 2017 14:20
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Fly Molo posted:Nah, that was totally some hotshot Imperial gunner noscoping the transmitter dish. That was a beautiful shot. "Hell yeah! Did you see that? Nailed it! I told you I could do it! High five, everybody!"
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Jan 7, 2017 15:56
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An observation about the Republic that is destroyed in TFA: it is depicted not just as one world, but multiple worlds. As it turns out the cannon explanation for this is that the Republic moved its capital by vote, and it was presently located in a system with multiple habitable planets. What we're actually seeing is the destruction of all the possible imaginary Republics which we (and Luke) hoped might come about after RotJ. Luke had one idealized vision of the Republic of the past, Alderaan, which turned out to already have become the Death Star. Now all our idealized possibilities for the Republic of the future are destroyed instead.
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Jan 7, 2017 16:11
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I loving loved Rogue One, for me it was probably not as good as Empire (although it was at least that sprawling) but far better than TFW and the prequel trilogy. The only criticisms I've heard in person were "everyone dies" and "Vader's helmet is bigger than Rick Moranis' in Space Balls." The Orville Redenbacher stuff i could take or leave, I got used to Tarkin pretty quick because he's a weird looking guy to start with but the last shot of the movie was like seeing a freshly dead relative wheeled out and made to speak https://youtu.be/Fcn4p213Zg8 Inspector Hound fucked around with this message at 16:44 on Jan 7, 2017 |
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Jan 7, 2017 16:40
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Magic Hate Ball posted:Vader is just Bigger Anakin. Vader actually dies at the end of ANH, the character we see in Empire and RotJ is Vaader.
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Jan 7, 2017 19:02
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Inspector Hound posted:I loving loved Rogue One, for me it was probably not as good as Empire (although it was at least that sprawling) but far better than TFW and the prequel trilogy. The only criticisms I've heard in person were "everyone dies" and "Vader's helmet is bigger than Rick Moranis' in Space Balls." The Orville Redenbacher stuff i could take or leave, I got used to Tarkin pretty quick because he's a weird looking guy to start with but the last shot of the movie was like seeing a freshly dead relative wheeled out and made to speak I didn't feel that way about CGI Leia when I saw the movie on opening weekend, but if I went and saw R1 again... yeah, I'd probably agree with you.
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Jan 7, 2017 19:08
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blamegame posted:some of the fan restorations are actually pretty interesting. amateur scanning an old 35mm print must be a pain in the rear end The notes on Harmy's stuff is fascinating.
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Jan 7, 2017 19:12
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Filthy Casual posted:Vader actually dies at the end of ANH, the character we see in Empire and RotJ is Vaader. Darth Väder
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Jan 7, 2017 20:17
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What's the best place to go to find/watch old Buck Rogers/Flash Gordon? Is there a better option than trawling through YouTube? There's so much Flash Gordon out there in so many mediums it feels a bit like asking "where do I start with Batman"
Jewmanji fucked around with this message at 20:35 on Jan 7, 2017 |
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Jan 7, 2017 20:21
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Jewmanji posted:What's the best place to go to find/watch old Buck Rogers/Flash Gordon? Is there a better option than trawling through YouTube? There's so much Flash Gordon out there in so many mediums it feels a bit like asking "where do I start with Batman" The Flash Gordon serials are all on DVD, as is the Buck Rogers one. They're not in very good quality since nobody's put much effort into restoring them or anything, and you have to get used to the serial structure, but they're fun. The comic strips- I know there are fairly recent collections of Flash Gordon's old run. Buck Rogers I'm less sure of. Of course Buck Rogers starts off with the Han Chinese as the villains who have taken over the Earth (though to Nolan's credit, when he finally ended the storyline he portrayed the Han Emperor as being merely misguided, and there was a faction of sympathetic anti-imperialist Han rebels)- after a few years they introduced sky pirates and undersea kingdoms, and then the Tiger Men of Mars introduced outer space and such. There are a couple of old volumes of this, one was done in 1970 and the other the late 80s/early 90s when an heir to the Dille family trust was in charge of TSR and greenlit of a bunch of Buck Rogers stuff in order to basically write herself checks.
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Jan 7, 2017 21:03
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Neo Rasa posted:This retroactively made more sense to me after Rogue One. The guy's still sputtering about how they're on a diplomatic mission and have no idea what he's talking about when we know thanks to Rogue One that Vader literally just slaughtered a bunch of guys during a major battle that were handing the plans onto the Tantive IV and chased them through hyperspace from that same battle. And this guy is still trying to act like nothing happened. Yeah, that scene totally made no sense before Rogue One came out. Why would the evil demonic rage villain possibly want to murder a guy who he believes is baldly lying to him?  I can't wait for the retcon explaining why Vader really murdered Captain Needa. I mean, the guy apologized to him! Why the gently caress would Darth Vader want to murder a guy who just said he was sorry? Make no sense. We can only hope a new Disney prequel movie comes out explaining that Needa was actually a secret Rebel sympathizer, and that's why he let the Falcon get away, and that's why Vader killed him. Raxivace posted:When is Vader going to meet Abott and Costello?  I guess they never quite met when he was actually Vader, though, huh? Cnut the Great fucked around with this message at 21:18 on Jan 7, 2017 |
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Jan 7, 2017 21:15
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I went and saw Rogue One and liked it well enough, I still find it interesting how the new Cannon is taking stuff from the older Legends Cannon and bringing it to the big screen. The battles at the end of the movie was really cool, and I thought it was amusing to see some ships, including apparently they are still using KOTOR Hammerheads about 4000 years later? The only thing I felt off putting was the use of the CGI Tarkin and Leia at the end? (Not sure if they used CGI model or just spliced her in from old footage) Other things like pulling the pilots from the Death Star attack was kinda cool, although was surprised they didn't pull Wedge or Biggs out to use.
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Jan 7, 2017 21:53
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Cnut the Great posted:
3PO got memory-wiped at the end of RotS It's quite possible that R2 knows exactly who Vader really is throughout the original trilogy, though
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Jan 7, 2017 22:43
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wyoming posted:I've only ever read Dune, and while I liked it a lot, I always thought "to hell with the sequels" as they sounded like an awful idea. Oh, there's lots worth reading, at least up until the end of God-Emperor of Dune. Dune Messiah, for example, has Paul and Alia trolling the gently caress out of nearly everyone.
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Jan 7, 2017 23:09
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:You can tell he's not Anakin whenever he's in a black robot suit and voiced by James Earl Jones. He becomes Darth Vader when he is given that name by Sidious, which is before he kills the younglings. SuperMechagodzilla posted:That's a complete misinterpretation. Dooku's goal was to recruit as many Jedi as he could (along with other groups) in a plot to assassinate Sidious/Palpatine. He is not an anarchist. I do not see how Dooku's actions agree with a plot to assassinate Palpatine - he has Palpatine prisoner on his flagship in the beginning of ROTS, he could easily execute him, and he simply waits for the rescue to arrive.
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Jan 8, 2017 00:26
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Maxwell Lord posted:Of course Buck Rogers starts off with the Han Chinese as the villains who have taken over the Earth (though to Nolan's credit, when he finally ended the storyline he portrayed the Han Emperor as being merely misguided, and there was a faction of sympathetic anti-imperialist Han rebels)- after a few years they introduced sky pirates and undersea kingdoms, and then the Tiger Men of Mars introduced outer space and such. There are a couple of old volumes of this, one was done in 1970 and the other the late 80s/early 90s when an heir to the Dille family trust was in charge of TSR and greenlit of a bunch of Buck Rogers stuff in order to basically write herself checks. The Han shot first.
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Jan 8, 2017 00:38
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Like ok i can see only restricting darth Vader to robot James earl jones but make that explicit.
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Jan 8, 2017 00:51
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euphronius posted:Like ok i can see only restricting darth Vader to robot James earl jones but make that explicit. He takes the name Darth Vader, but he isn't truly Darth Vader until he's Robot James Earl Jones. He becomes Anakin in RotJ when Luke takes his mask off. Likewise, Kylo Ren has taken that name in TFA and believes that killing his father will make him truly Kylo Ren and not Ben Solo, but it doesn't.
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Jan 8, 2017 00:54
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Idahoant posted:He becomes Darth Vader when he is given that name by Sidious, which is before he kills the younglings. Being given a name is not the same as being that person. The point is that Darth Vader emerges after all traces of Anakin Skywalker have been burnt away, and the character is reborn in a different body. It's at that point that he fully becomes the name. This is what distinguishes Vader from Dooku, who maintains a distance from the Darth Tyrannus name and insists that he is still a Jedi. (And, despite being a cyborg, Greivous doesn't even get a 'Darth' title. He still operates under his birth name.) Vader has much more in common with Maul - who displays little trace of his former self, and whose face tattoos function like Vader's mask. (Maul is, however, fighting on behalf of 'his people', 'his culture', or whatever. He's a bit more small-time.) quote:I do not see how Dooku's actions agree with a plot to assassinate Palpatine - he has Palpatine prisoner on his flagship in the beginning of ROTS, he could easily execute him, and he simply waits for the rescue to arrive. Dooku needs help to kill Palpatine for the same reason that Vader does in the OT. Palpatine is almost literally the embodiment of the capitalist system, and can only be defeated if capitalism ends. Dooku's goal is to bring back feudalism (alliance with the Jedi) while Vader's goal is dictatorship of the proletariat (alliance with Luke and, by extension, all the oppressed who serve the Rebel Alliance out of desperation and lack of alternatives). SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 01:53 on Jan 8, 2017 |
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Jan 8, 2017 01:26
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Anakin is told his name, but his baptism (by fire) happens later on, on the fire planet.
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Jan 8, 2017 01:27
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Greivous ascended pre-Vadar so he wasn't a sith. He was never a brother in the body of christ.
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Jan 8, 2017 01:39
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temple posted:Greivous ascended pre-Vadar so he wasn't a sith. He was never a brother in the body of christ. he's John the Baptist
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Jan 8, 2017 01:52
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In more concrete terms, Grievous is used to illustrate that Vader isn't just a cyborg. Vader is distinguished by his attitude towards being cyborg. While Grievous is constantly trying to reassert his humanity, Vader embraces the machine. Being 'more machine than man' is a choice.
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Jan 8, 2017 01:59
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mastershakeman posted:he's John the Baptist John the Baptist was the loving coolest then (after whichever guy Maul was) All of the main villains in the prequels save Palpatine were aspects of Vader, right?
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Jan 8, 2017 02:01
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LookingGodIntheEye posted:I hear that for Episode VIII, Disney is going to feed snippets of all of Fisher's lines in the Star Wars films to a neural network. The neural network will then be a substitute voice actor for Fisher and whenever she "speaks" she'll be a CGI model. lol Serious talk: is Watto's had culpable in making him a Jewish stereotype? Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 02:44 on Jan 8, 2017 |
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Jan 8, 2017 02:03
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Vader is Space Christ, and he rejects the false dichotomy between Republic and Imperial. When he dies, the Force (aka The Dark Side) dies with him and all that remains is the Holy Spirit. His goal is to supplant the Emperor, yet not to restore the Republic. He is not a Seperatist, not a Rebel or Resistance. Ok. The messianic imagery is pretty clear later on and his lack of class distinction down to being part droid I get. Can you explain what shows him as being interested in authentic justice? Clearly he's not down with the Empire or Republic, but his egalitarian principles don't seem so obvious to me. His offer to Luke reads as dictatorial, even monarchical. It seems a stretch to give him even Blanquist credit at that point. He seems more like a Christ figure who's being syncretized with the devil (only partially in the positive diabolical sense) and is both enacting the Temptation on Luke, and himself being tempted. His actor definitely sells more as conflicted and uncertain than possessed of a firm ethical principle as I recall him between the Death Star and the Throne Room. And while he's perfectly willing to interact on equalish terms with the scum of the galaxy, I don't remember any indication that he's concerned with their lives. I'm not strongly disputing you, I'm just looking for something more concrete in terms of textual evidence for what seems like a very counterintuitive reading of the character pre-Throne Room. Like, why would this Vader even hesitate in that scene? Luke has already completed his apotheosis. The editing and actor both play it as a moment of major internal conflict. Do you see this as sort of a mixed up Passion?
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Jan 8, 2017 02:29
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Cnut the Great posted:I can't wait for the retcon explaining why Vader really murdered Captain Needa. I mean, the guy apologized to him! Why the gently caress would Darth Vader want to murder a guy who just said he was sorry? Make no sense. We can only hope a new Disney prequel movie comes out explaining that Needa was actually a secret Rebel sympathizer, and that's why he let the Falcon get away, and that's why Vader killed him. This would make Needa a far less heroic figure and I would have to give away my action figures.
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Jan 8, 2017 03:02
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DeimosRising posted:Ok. The messianic imagery is pretty clear later on and his lack of class distinction down to being part droid I get. Can you explain what shows him as being interested in authentic justice? Clearly he's not down with the Empire or Republic, but his egalitarian principles don't seem so obvious to me. His offer to Luke reads as dictatorial, even monarchical. It seems a stretch to give him even Blanquist credit at that point. He seems more like a Christ figure who's being syncretized with the devil (only partially in the positive diabolical sense) and is both enacting the Temptation on Luke, and himself being tempted. His actor definitely sells more as conflicted and uncertain than possessed of a firm ethical principle as I recall him between the Death Star and the Throne Room. And while he's perfectly willing to interact on equalish terms with the scum of the galaxy, I don't remember any indication that he's concerned with their lives. The first thing to keep in mind is that Lucas' Six Star Wars films are told from the perspective of the Republic, so characters like Maul and Vader are pushed to the margins. Many viewers, uncritical of the Republic ideology, automatically dismiss Maul as 'just bad because of his race' - when Maul's incomprehensibility is actually the result of Republic racism/classism. Such concepts as droids being people are absolutely alien to these viewers, for the same reason. This means that, although the film's are about the birth and eventual crucifixion of Vader, we see this event from the outside. "Since the ideological universe of Star Wars is the New Age pagan universe, it is quite consequent that its central figure of evil should echo Christ. Within the pagan horizon the event of Christ is the ultimate scandal. " Marquand's 'preferred' reading of Episode 6 is that Vader's ethical regression back into Anakin is a good thing. So when Vader hesitates, as you point out, it quite literally the last temptation of Christ - as told from the perspective of the people trying desperately to tempt him. This, not the cool black clothing, is the ultimate seductive power of the dark side. Vader is not overly concerned with the lives of the people, but it's because his actual concern is their soul - their spirit. This is effectively what's at stake when Luke attempts to save Anakin and kill Vader in the process. It's a repetition/inversion of when Anakin breaks Padme's spirit in an effort to keep her alive. People have recently deployed a similar temptation by appealing to my sense of empathy: "how can you criticize Hillary? Don't you have any empathy for minorities?" This is where we should move beyond empathy and into love - love for those considered beneath empathy. Love thy neighbour. It seems we pretty much agree on all this, but I think you miss the importance of Luke. Luke knows Vader is right. Deep in his heart, he knows the Rebels aren't good enough. But the point of recruiting Luke is not that Luke himself is so special, but that he is the heart of the Rebellion. Those little people (the same 'faceless' characters celebrated in Rogue One) will go where he goes. Implicit in the teaming of Luke and Vader is solidarity between the Rebel 'scum' and the Imperial 'scum' - all the scum of the universe. But this can only happen under Vader's terms. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 04:02 on Jan 8, 2017 |
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Jan 8, 2017 03:59
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So the cantina at Mos Eisley was actually the best choice all along? (I mean that's where they met Han and where the wider universe of Star Wars caught people's imaginations, so that's actually probably true).
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Jan 8, 2017 04:23
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One thing I will say in Zizek's favor is that he was probably the first scholar to call Episode I "a very bad movie."
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Jan 8, 2017 04:37
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Hodgepodge posted:So the cantina at Mos Eisley was actually the best choice all along? We talked about it a little bit in the other thread, but it's not just the weird alien bar. Saw, his hideout, and his group are visually linked with Jabba's Palace and henchmen.
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Jan 8, 2017 05:03
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FuturePastNow posted:3PO got memory-wiped at the end of RotS so is he a dick or are the affairs of mortals beneath him a la Tom bombadil?
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Jan 8, 2017 05:29
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