Lets Reinstall Morrowind: You can't post here. Enemies are nearby.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Lets Reinstall Morrowind: You can't post here. Enemies are nearby.

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Doc Hawkins: Jun 15, 2010; Dashing? But I'm not even moving!

That is indeed a post from Minot North Dakota's most famous Walmart employee, Nick "ulillillia" Smith.

# ? Jan 8, 2017 02:04

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# ? May 31, 2024 14:08

Stuporstar: May 5, 2008; Where do fists come from?

Added a ton of new images to my Uvirith's Legacy 4 WIP album on Imgur: http://m.imgur.com/a/eU7c9

After doing the new bathrooms, I spent like an hour making a mesh for a poop stick. And then after placing the poop stick, I realized there was no way to tell your poop stick from anyone elses. So I wrote a non-quest where your apprentice accidentally uses your poop stick, because it wasn't labled, so he buys you a new poop stick that says, "Property of the Archmagister. Do not Touch on Pain of Death." So of course I had to spend another hour retexturing my poop stick into a fancier poop stick with that poo poo actually written on it in gold lettering.

So dammit, I turned it into a weapon to make all that sleep-deprive-induced bullshit worthwhile. It does no damage, but does a demoralize cast-on-strike, because who wouldn't run from someone brandishing a possibly poop-covered sponge-on-a-atick.

# ? Jan 8, 2017 08:51

Krowley: Feb 15, 2008

Stuporstar posted:

sponge-on-a-stick.

Required mods: Better Bodies - Morbid Obesity Overhaul Project (MOOP)

# ? Jan 8, 2017 12:57

a cow: May 6, 2007; friendship is magic
in a pony paradise
don't you judge me

Stuporstar posted:

Added a ton of new images to my Uvirith's Legacy 4 WIP album on Imgur: http://m.imgur.com/a/eU7c9

After doing the new bathrooms, I spent like an hour making a mesh for a poop stick. And then after placing the poop stick, I realized there was no way to tell your poop stick from anyone elses. So I wrote a non-quest where your apprentice accidentally uses your poop stick, because it wasn't labled, so he buys you a new poop stick that says, "Property of the Archmagister. Do not Touch on Pain of Death." So of course I had to spend another hour retexturing my poop stick into a fancier poop stick with that poo poo actually written on it in gold lettering.

So dammit, I turned it into a weapon to make all that sleep-deprive-induced bullshit worthwhile. It does no damage, but does a demoralize cast-on-strike, because who wouldn't run from someone brandishing a possibly poop-covered sponge-on-a-atick.

Every time I look in on this thread the urge to play grows, this pushed me over the edge! Will the future 3.x -> 4 upgrade work on old save games, or should I hold off for a while?

# ? Jan 8, 2017 13:28

Ms Adequate: Oct 30, 2011; Baby even when I'm dead and gone
You will always be my only one, my only one
When the night is calling
No matter who I become
You will always be my only one, my only one, my only one
When the night is calling

Stuporstar posted:

Added a ton of new images to my Uvirith's Legacy 4 WIP album on Imgur: http://m.imgur.com/a/eU7c9

After doing the new bathrooms, I spent like an hour making a mesh for a poop stick. And then after placing the poop stick, I realized there was no way to tell your poop stick from anyone elses. So I wrote a non-quest where your apprentice accidentally uses your poop stick, because it wasn't labled, so he buys you a new poop stick that says, "Property of the Archmagister. Do not Touch on Pain of Death." So of course I had to spend another hour retexturing my poop stick into a fancier poop stick with that poo poo actually written on it in gold lettering.

So dammit, I turned it into a weapon to make all that sleep-deprive-induced bullshit worthwhile. It does no damage, but does a demoralize cast-on-strike, because who wouldn't run from someone brandishing a possibly poop-covered sponge-on-a-atick.

# ? Jan 8, 2017 17:01

Stuporstar: May 5, 2008; Where do fists come from?

a cow posted:

Every time I look in on this thread the urge to play grows, this pushed me over the edge! Will the future 3.x -> 4 upgrade work on old save games, or should I hold off for a while?

I did a complete ID overhaul, almost as extensive as TRs, so none of your stuff will port over from 3 to 4. You could use the same character, having thoroughly purged all old UL content from the save, and start the UL content over again. I've overhauled enough quests that it won't be like playing the same content twice for a lot of it. And UL 4 is still a ways a way�it will take me at least all year to finish it, even though a ton is done already. I've been working on it, seperately from the UL 3 updates, since 2014.

I'm overhauling every quest that still contained legacy lameness, like fetch quests and poo poo (any fetching left to do can be passed down to underlings), and replacing it with more quests that require actually casting spells and/or conducting rituals, like a proper mage. For example, tracking down the missing prisoner is now done by creating a glowing honing beacon using a thing he drops (no longer a stupid-rear end journal with his full confession inside it). And getting the Tomes of Knowledge will involve going to Hermaeus Mora's realm to bag them like a pair of ornery flying geese, and after strapping them down to daedric lecturns, they'll continue to flap their pages against their bonds, because the books themselves are now the creatures with enchanting/spellmaking abilities (so glad I learned how to make meshes). Oh, and the expanded Uvirith's Tomb means finding the lich's phylactery (and figuring out how to destroy it) is going to be a proper dungeon crawl.

I'm even going to brush up some RoHT quests in the patch, so if anything in particular annoys you about its quest lines, let me know and I'll see what I can do about it. One thing I'm going to do is add options to order your underlings to conduct the stupid fetch quests for you as well, because gently caress letting Edwinna make you do goddamned chores when you're her Archmagister. I won't be overhauling the to the same extent as UL, just making tweaks here and there to make annoying bits less annoying, like I'm working on with MW's original faction and side quests in QTA.

Stuporstar fucked around with this message at 20:22 on Jan 8, 2017

# ? Jan 8, 2017 19:52

Musical_Daredevil: Dec 23, 2008; Need some backup NOW!

Stuporstar posted:

Added a ton of new images to my Uvirith's Legacy 4 WIP album on Imgur: http://m.imgur.com/a/eU7c9

After doing the new bathrooms, I spent like an hour making a mesh for a poop stick. And then after placing the poop stick, I realized there was no way to tell your poop stick from anyone elses. So I wrote a non-quest where your apprentice accidentally uses your poop stick, because it wasn't labled, so he buys you a new poop stick that says, "Property of the Archmagister. Do not Touch on Pain of Death." So of course I had to spend another hour retexturing my poop stick into a fancier poop stick with that poo poo actually written on it in gold lettering.

So dammit, I turned it into a weapon to make all that sleep-deprive-induced bullshit worthwhile. It does no damage, but does a demoralize cast-on-strike, because who wouldn't run from someone brandishing a possibly poop-covered sponge-on-a-atick.

Mods, can we turn this entire post into the thread title?

# ? Jan 8, 2017 20:47

Doc Hawkins: Jun 15, 2010; Dashing? But I'm not even moving!

Stuporstar posted:

Added a ton of new images to my Uvirith's Legacy 4 WIP album on Imgur: http://m.imgur.com/a/eU7c9

After doing the new bathrooms, I spent like an hour making a mesh for a poop stick. And then after placing the poop stick, I realized there was no way to tell your poop stick from anyone elses. So I wrote a non-quest where your apprentice accidentally uses your poop stick, because it wasn't labled, so he buys you a new poop stick that says, "Property of the Archmagister. Do not Touch on Pain of Death." So of course I had to spend another hour retexturing my poop stick into a fancier poop stick with that poo poo actually written on it in gold lettering.

So dammit, I turned it into a weapon to make all that sleep-deprive-induced bullshit worthwhile. It does no damage, but does a demoralize cast-on-strike, because who wouldn't run from someone brandishing a possibly poop-covered sponge-on-a-atick.

e: Let's Reinstall Morrowind: Uvirith's Legacy is better than your megapack

Doc Hawkins fucked around with this message at 00:03 on Jan 9, 2017

# ? Jan 8, 2017 23:56

BrutalistMcDonalds: Oct 4, 2012; Lipstick Apathy

Stuporstar posted:

Added a ton of new images to my Uvirith's Legacy 4 WIP album on Imgur: http://m.imgur.com/a/eU7c9

After doing the new bathrooms, I spent like an hour making a mesh for a poop stick. And then after placing the poop stick, I realized there was no way to tell your poop stick from anyone elses. So I wrote a non-quest where your apprentice accidentally uses your poop stick, because it wasn't labled, so he buys you a new poop stick that says, "Property of the Archmagister. Do not Touch on Pain of Death." So of course I had to spend another hour retexturing my poop stick into a fancier poop stick with that poo poo actually written on it in gold lettering.

So dammit, I turned it into a weapon to make all that sleep-deprive-induced bullshit worthwhile. It does no damage, but does a demoralize cast-on-strike, because who wouldn't run from someone brandishing a possibly poop-covered sponge-on-a-atick.

# ? Jan 9, 2017 00:09

Stuporstar: May 5, 2008; Where do fists come from?

I've decided to call the poop-stick-of-fear the Scepter of the Mushroom Throne.

# ? Jan 9, 2017 01:39

SolidSnakesBandana: Jul 1, 2007; Infinite ammo

What is the function of the poop stick?

# ? Jan 9, 2017 08:07

Doc Hawkins: Jun 15, 2010; Dashing? But I'm not even moving!

In real life? Cleaning your rear end in a top hat after making GBS threads.

In the game? Immersion, naturally.

# ? Jan 9, 2017 08:53

Rhjamiz: Oct 28, 2007

It is my fervent wish that once OpenMW is "ready" that someone rips out the combat system and mods in a more enjoyable and/or modern one.

# ? Jan 9, 2017 17:47

Proletarian Mango: May 21, 2011

Rhjamiz posted:

It is my fervent wish that once OpenMW is "ready" that someone rips out the combat system and mods in a more enjoyable and/or modern one.

I think you, me, and everybody else want the that too.

Personally, I'd be okay with something as simple as only adding glancing blows in place of some missed swings. Something like a one in three chance that a missed hit ends up being a low powered blow (only a few points of damage).

That way, certain skills/attributes aren't made pointless, combat feels more kinetic, and it maintains that Morrowind feeling.

50% chance to hit
50% chance to miss
--77% chance hit misses completely
--33% chance miss is converted to glancing blow

Something like that anyways. I don't know how to percentage.

A part of me feels that the combat system isn't going to get changed, at least for a long while after 1.0 hits. That can't exactly be a trivial thing to do and OpenMW doesn't exactly have programmers knocking down their door to get at the project. Not to mention the likely possibility a new combat system requiring new animations and everything that entails.

I think the OMW team will have to do a pretty big PR 'event' for 1.0 if they want a surge of fresh blood for the project. Hitting up game journalists, game streamers, various forums, etc.

# ? Jan 9, 2017 18:34

The MUMPSorceress: Jan 6, 2012; ^SHTPSTS; Gary’s Answer

I don't know why everyone hate's morrowind's combat so much. Every attempt to make elder scrolls combat more actiony just turns it into a bland not-a-shooter instead of an RPG.

# ? Jan 9, 2017 18:52

Death Zebra: May 14, 2014

Rhjamiz posted:

It is my fervent wish that once OpenMW is "ready" that someone rips out the combat system and mods in a more enjoyable and/or modern one.

Indeed. I like Morrowind but I've never experienced combat as anything more than

1) run up the enemy(melee) or back away from them (ranged or magic)
2) click left mouse button
3) chug potions as necessary

Admittedly some of that is my fault as I have 'always use most damaging attack' on but the same goes for Oblivion and Skyrim as well. The most strategic thing I've done in Morrowind was in a mod that added a dungeon under the waterfall north of Balmora. I locked a powerful vampire in his room.

I don't really like the Souls games but something like that would be better as it's more fluid and actually allows you dodge enemy attacks.

# ? Jan 9, 2017 18:58

The MUMPSorceress: Jan 6, 2012; ^SHTPSTS; Gary’s Answer

Death Zebra posted:

Indeed. I like Morrowind but I've never experienced combat as anything more than

1) run up the enemy(melee) or back away from them (ranged or magic)
2) click left mouse button
3) chug potions as necessary

Admittedly some of that is my fault as I have 'always use most damaging attack' on but the same goes for Oblivion and Skyrim as well. The most strategic thing I've done in Morrowind was in a mod that added a dungeon under the waterfall north of Balmora. I locked a powerful vampire in his room.

I don't really like the Souls games but something like that would be better as it's more fluid and actually allows you dodge enemy attacks.

Lol, the age old Games refrain of "add souls-style combat".

# ? Jan 9, 2017 19:00

Rhjamiz: Oct 28, 2007

LeftistMuslimObama posted:

Lol, the age old Games refrain of "add souls-style combat".

Well, I mean, Souls combat is satisfying and lets you feel like you are actually improving. So naturally people want it in place of less fun systems.

# ? Jan 9, 2017 19:04

Mr. Crow: May 22, 2008; Snap City mayor for life

Death Zebra posted:

I don't really like the Souls games but something like that would be better as it's more fluid and actually allows you dodge enemy attacks.

Go ahead and add that in, we'll wait 😉

I agree with the above poster, the combat is fine and part of what is enjoyable about Morrowind. I mean I'm all for someone improving the game and if they overhaul it and it's good gently caress yea, but I'd rather they focus on improving backwards compatibility first (mwse, mge, etc) then start adding entirely new features in.

I should poke around OpenMW I wonder how much of a mess (or not) the code base is.

# ? Jan 9, 2017 19:09

Krowley: Feb 15, 2008

LeftistMuslimObama posted:

I don't know why everyone hate's morrowind's combat so much. Every attempt to make elder scrolls combat more actiony just turns it into a bland not-a-shooter instead of an RPG.

Because it's more "cinematic" I guess? No TES games can be said to have anything more than utterly mediocre combat, which is why everyone plays stealth archers, the least horrible option.

# ? Jan 9, 2017 19:11

Rhjamiz: Oct 28, 2007

Mr. Crow posted:

Go ahead and add that in, we'll wait 😉

I agree with the above poster, the combat is fine and part of what is enjoyable about Morrowind. I mean I'm all for someone improving the game and if they overhaul it and it's good gently caress yea, but I'd rather they focus on improving backwards compatibility first (mwse, mge, etc) then start adding entirely new features in.

I should poke around OpenMW I wonder how much of a mess (or not) the code base is.

Are MWSE and MGE even necessary in OpenMW? I thought the point was that OMW made them obsolete by allowing you to script or code all that directly?

# ? Jan 9, 2017 19:17

Mr. Crow: May 22, 2008; Snap City mayor for life

Which is exactly why I enjoy Morrowinds combat more than the next Tes games. At least it's unique.

# ? Jan 9, 2017 19:18

Mr. Crow: May 22, 2008; Snap City mayor for life

Rhjamiz posted:

Are MWSE and MGE even necessary in OpenMW? I thought the point was that OMW made them obsolete by allowing you to script or code all that directly?

MGE and MGEx yes, MWSE and the other shittier script extender would need to be ported somehow to have backwards compatibility with a lot of mods.

Ideally they would implement newer better mechanisms for new mods yes, but you'd still need to update older mods to work with the new features (unreasonable) or provide some sort of emulation of the old functionality to play a large number of mods.

# ? Jan 9, 2017 19:22

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

Bethesda (well, Zenimax) owns Arkhane Studios, so they should get something based on Dark Messiah's combat.

# ? Jan 9, 2017 19:23

Doc Hawkins: Jun 15, 2010; Dashing? But I'm not even moving!

Mr. Crow posted:

Go ahead and add that in, we'll wait 😉

I agree with the above poster, the combat is fine and part of what is enjoyable about Morrowind. I mean I'm all for someone improving the game and if they overhaul it and it's good gently caress yea, but I'd rather they focus on improving backwards compatibility first (mwse, mge, etc) then start adding entirely new features in.

I should poke around OpenMW I wonder how much of a mess (or not) the code base is.

Improving combat is not a goal of the openmw project; enabling mods which make fundamental changes, like replacing combat systems, is.

# ? Jan 9, 2017 19:48

Private Speech: Mar 30, 2011; I HAVE EVEN MORE WORTHLESS BEANIE BABIES IN MY COLLECTION THAN I HAVE WORTHLESS POSTS IN THE BEANIE BABY THREAD YET I STILL HAVE THE TEMERITY TO CRITICIZE OTHERS' COLLECTIONS

IF YOU SEE ME TALKING ABOUT BEANIE BABIES, PLEASE TELL ME TO

EAT. SHIT.

Given that it's open source you can just do whatever you want with it. The degree to which improving combat would be difficult depends on how much other stuff like animations/indicators/ai support/balancing you want.

I'm fairly certain I could do it in 15 minutes or less; from the brief look I had at it the codebase is fairly simple. And in my experience doing source-level modding is much much quicker than doing things via scripting.

Now the bigger issue is that source-level mods are inherently incompatible with each other, to a certain extent at least. Which is why other OSS games like OpenTTD, *bands, Nethack, JA2 1.13 etc. usually only have a few different versions/mods/patches, so you can see why OpenMW would be reluctant about officially supporting it.

Private Speech fucked around with this message at 19:58 on Jan 9, 2017

# ? Jan 9, 2017 19:54

Rhjamiz: Oct 28, 2007

Cat Mattress posted:

Bethesda (well, Zenimax) owns Arkhane Studios, so they should get something based on Dark Messiah's combat.

gently caress yes, I'll take that. Let me kick Dunmer into the canals of Vivec.

# ? Jan 9, 2017 20:00

SolidSnakesBandana: Jul 1, 2007; Infinite ammo

Private Speech posted:

Given that it's open source you can just do whatever you want with it. The degree to which improving combat would be difficult depends on how much other stuff like animations/indicators/ai support/balancing you want.

I'm fairly certain I could do it in 15 minutes or less; from the brief look I had at it the codebase is fairly simple. And in my experience doing source-level modding is much much quicker than doing things via scripting.

In that case I expect a full combat overhaul by the end of the day

# ? Jan 9, 2017 20:12

The MUMPSorceress: Jan 6, 2012; ^SHTPSTS; Gary’s Answer

Private Speech posted:

Given that it's open source you can just do whatever you want with it. The degree to which improving combat would be difficult depends on how much other stuff like animations/indicators/ai support/balancing you want.

I'm fairly certain I could do it in 15 minutes or less; from the brief look I had at it the codebase is fairly simple. And in my experience doing source-level modding is much much quicker than doing things via scripting.

Now the bigger issue is that source-level mods are inherently incompatible with each other, to a certain extent at least. Which is why other OSS games like OpenTTD, *bands, Nethack, JA2 1.13 etc. usually only have a few different versions/mods/patches, so you can see why OpenMW would be reluctant about officially supporting it.

Lol if you think that the code part is the difficult part about making "better" combat rather than designing the combat and making it fun and balanced.

# ? Jan 9, 2017 20:17

GreatGreen: Jul 3, 2007; That's not what gaslighting means you hyperbolic dipshit.

LeftistMuslimObama posted:

I don't know why everyone hate's morrowind's combat so much. Every attempt to make elder scrolls combat more actiony just turns it into a bland not-a-shooter instead of an RPG.

Later Elder Scrolls combat being terrible doesn't mean Morrowind's was good, just that Bethesda doesn't have a clue how to do RPG combat in an entertaining way. I will say Morrowind's whole combat system is also my favorite TES combat system though, just because of how completely open ended it is in that you can do anything at all.

I think Morrowind's biggest problem combat-wise was that it didn't put any limiting factor on how often you could swing your weapon on a moment-to-moment basis, either via cooldown or limiting animation. I'm guessing that the solution to this was originally to make misses part of the system. This sucked though. There is technically a stamina system sure but it doesn't do much for the combat pacing. Instead, my armchair developer sensibilities tell me that it would have been better to limit how often you can swing your weapon based on some formula between weapon speed and your strength/dexterity/whatever the weapon's primary attribute calls for, and eliminate misses entirely, then rebalance enemy health based on that. This would limit dps in a much more fun and intuitive way that just making your character roll misses all the time.

In a perfect world for me, the best Elder Scrolls combat system would be where the melee is based on what I just described, along with a Souls type system for locking onto your enemy and dealing damage by waiting for openings to time your attacks and having to either dodge or block with a shield to mitigate damage, while the spell system would be based on MMO style hotbars, cooldowns, and cast timers. Press a number key on your keyboard, the spell in that slot is cast, etc.

For console users I guess you could replace hotbars with a button that brings up a DOOM 2016-style gun wheel for spells to load, then a dedicated cast button.

Thank you for indulging my TES combat sperg-a-thon.

# ? Jan 9, 2017 20:19

SolidSnakesBandana: Jul 1, 2007; Infinite ammo

Elder Scrolls games often suffer from poor encounter design due to the nature of the scaling. One of the things Dark Souls does right is it deliberately designs each individual encounter

# ? Jan 9, 2017 20:29

Private Speech: Mar 30, 2011; I HAVE EVEN MORE WORTHLESS BEANIE BABIES IN MY COLLECTION THAN I HAVE WORTHLESS POSTS IN THE BEANIE BABY THREAD YET I STILL HAVE THE TEMERITY TO CRITICIZE OTHERS' COLLECTIONS

IF YOU SEE ME TALKING ABOUT BEANIE BABIES, PLEASE TELL ME TO

EAT. SHIT.

LeftistMuslimObama posted:

Lol if you think that the code part is the difficult part about making "better" combat rather than designing the combat and making it fun and balanced.

That's pretty much what I said? Like I can literally program up the glancing blows thing pretty quick and most of that is going to be compiling and testing to see if it works how I want.

If you want animations/ai/balancing/whatever, than yeah, it's not simple, but it's quicker to actually implement than via scripting anyhow.

SolidSnakesBandana posted:

In that case I expect a full combat overhaul by the end of the day

I never said I'd do it. And setting up a dev environment for it would be annoying because of how many libraries it has. But if you have a look at the combat code it's pretty much, play a hit sound, do a hit animation, substract health, etc. Would be simple to make all failed attacks play a hit sound and make the health bar show up and do a 1-3 (or w/e) points of damage (no stagger obviously).

e: let's see, take this from combat.cpp:

code:

        if (Misc::Rng::roll0to99() >= getHitChance(attacker, victim, skillValue))
        {
            victim.getClass().onHit(victim, 0.0f, false, projectile, attacker, osg::Vec3f(), false);
            MWMechanics::reduceWeaponCondition(0.f, false, weapon, attacker);
            return;
        }


        const unsigned char* attack = weapon.get<ESM::Weapon>()->mBase->mData.mChop;
        float damage = attack[0] + ((attack[1]-attack[0])*attackStrength); // Bow/crossbow damage

        // Arrow/bolt damage
        // NB in case of thrown weapons, we are applying the damage twice since projectile == weapon
        attack = projectile.get<ESM::Weapon>()->mBase->mData.mChop;
        damage += attack[0] + ((attack[1]-attack[0])*attackStrength);

        adjustWeaponDamage(damage, weapon, attacker);
        reduceWeaponCondition(damage, true, weapon, attacker);

        if(attacker == getPlayer())
            attacker.getClass().skillUsageSucceeded(attacker, weapskill, 0);

        if (victim.getClass().getCreatureStats(victim).getKnockedDown())
            damage *= gmst.find("fCombatKODamageMult")->getFloat();

        // Apply "On hit" effect of the weapon
        bool appliedEnchantment = applyOnStrikeEnchantment(attacker, victim, weapon, hitPosition);
        if (weapon != projectile)
            appliedEnchantment = applyOnStrikeEnchantment(attacker, victim, projectile, hitPosition);

        // Non-enchanted arrows shot at enemies have a chance to turn up in their inventory
        if (victim != getPlayer()
                && !appliedEnchantment)
        {
            float fProjectileThrownStoreChance = gmst.find("fProjectileThrownStoreChance")->getFloat();
            if (Misc::Rng::rollProbability() < fProjectileThrownStoreChance / 100.f)
                victim.getClass().getContainerStore(victim).add(projectile, 1, victim);
        }

        victim.getClass().onHit(victim, damage, true, projectile, attacker, hitPosition, true);

and replace with

code:

	bool attack_missed;
        if (Misc::Rng::roll0to99() >= getHitChance(attacker, victim, skillValue))
        {
		attack_missed = true;
        }


        const unsigned char* attack = weapon.get<ESM::Weapon>()->mBase->mData.mChop;
        float damage = attack[0] + ((attack[1]-attack[0])*attackStrength); // Bow/crossbow damage

        // Arrow/bolt damage
        // NB in case of thrown weapons, we are applying the damage twice since projectile == weapon
        attack = projectile.get<ESM::Weapon>()->mBase->mData.mChop;
        damage += attack[0] + ((attack[1]-attack[0])*attackStrength);

        adjustWeaponDamage(damage, weapon, attacker);

		if (!attack_missed) 
		{
			reduceWeaponCondition(damage, true, weapon, attacker);
			if(attacker == getPlayer())
				attacker.getClass().skillUsageSucceeded(attacker, weapskill, 0);
		
			if (victim.getClass().getCreatureStats(victim).getKnockedDown())
				damage *= gmst.find("fCombatKODamageMult")->getFloat();

        // Apply "On hit" effect of the weapon
        bool appliedEnchantment = applyOnStrikeEnchantment(attacker, victim, weapon, hitPosition);
        if (weapon != projectile)
            appliedEnchantment = applyOnStrikeEnchantment(attacker, victim, projectile, hitPosition);

        // Non-enchanted arrows shot at enemies have a chance to turn up in their inventory
        if (victim != getPlayer()
                && !appliedEnchantment)
        {
            float fProjectileThrownStoreChance = gmst.find("fProjectileThrownStoreChance")->getFloat();
            if (Misc::Rng::rollProbability() < fProjectileThrownStoreChance / 100.f)
                victim.getClass().getContainerStore(victim).add(projectile, 1, victim);
        }

		} else {
			damage = 1;
		}
        victim.getClass().onHit(victim, damage, true, projectile, attacker, hitPosition, true);

and recompile. (formatting might be screwed up because I copied it to/from Np++)

Quick and dirty. If you want a random chance for glancing blows it's super quick to do as well, this took me about 2 minutes including the time to replace batteries in my mouse.

Private Speech fucked around with this message at 21:27 on Jan 9, 2017

# ? Jan 9, 2017 20:30

Ms Adequate: Oct 30, 2011; Baby even when I'm dead and gone
You will always be my only one, my only one
When the night is calling
No matter who I become
You will always be my only one, my only one, my only one
When the night is calling

SolidSnakesBandana posted:

Elder Scrolls games often suffer from poor encounter design due to the nature of the scaling. One of the things Dark Souls does right is it deliberately designs each individual encounter

It gets exponentially harder to design encounters when you're in such an open world, though. I think it's less scaling and more that you can't easily account for a level 3 warrior, a level 19 stealth archer, and a level gently caress mage, all with their own racial and birthsign powers, items, etc.. So they end up taking a broader path.

I don't think any TES game has particularly bad combat. I like Morrowind and Skyrim. Oblivion does suffer massively from scaling but second-to-second, running around smashing dudes with a hammer is fun enough.

# ? Jan 9, 2017 20:34

RBA Starblade: Apr 28, 2008; Going Home.

Games Idiot Court Jester

More games need the Mighty Boot.

# ? Jan 9, 2017 20:38

Death Zebra: May 14, 2014

Mr. Crow posted:

Go ahead and add that in, we'll wait 😉

Don't get me wrong, I have no expectations of it actually being added but it was the closest game to I wanted that I could really think of. I've been in plenty of situations in Morrowind and the sequels (admittedly mostly when fighting enemies added or changed by mods) where I wanted an evasive roll or other effective evasive move.

GreatGreen posted:

along with a Souls type system for locking onto your enemy and dealing damage by waiting for openings to time your attacks and having to either dodge or block with a shield to mitigate damage,

This is basically what I meant only I had gently caress-all power to describe it and was too lazy to go into detail anyway.

# ? Jan 9, 2017 20:46

The MUMPSorceress: Jan 6, 2012; ^SHTPSTS; Gary’s Answer

GreatGreen posted:

Later Elder Scrolls combat being terrible doesn't mean Morrowind's was good, just that Bethesda doesn't have a clue how to do RPG combat in an entertaining way. I will say Morrowind's whole combat system is also my favorite TES combat system though, just because of how completely open ended it is in that you can do anything at all.

I think Morrowind's biggest problem combat-wise was that it didn't put any limiting factor on how often you could swing your weapon on a moment-to-moment basis, either via cooldown or limiting animation. I'm guessing that the solution to this was originally to make misses part of the system. This sucked though. There is technically a stamina system sure but it doesn't do much for the combat pacing. Instead, my armchair developer sensibilities tell me that it would have been better to limit how often you can swing your weapon based on some formula between weapon speed and your strength/dexterity/whatever the weapon's primary attribute calls for, and eliminate misses entirely, then rebalance enemy health based on that. This would limit dps in a much more fun and intuitive way that just making your character roll misses all the time.

In a perfect world for me, the best Elder Scrolls combat system would be where the melee is based on what I just described, along with a Souls type system for locking onto your enemy and dealing damage by waiting for openings to time your attacks and having to either dodge or block with a shield to mitigate damage, while the spell system would be based on MMO style hotbars, cooldowns, and cast timers. Press a number key on your keyboard, the spell in that slot is cast, etc.

For console users I guess you could replace hotbars with a button that brings up a DOOM 2016-style gun wheel for spells to load, then a dedicated cast button.

Thank you for indulging my TES combat sperg-a-thon.

The things is, the more you depend on the players reflexes and skill in combat, the less incentive there is to pick "suboptimal" weapons or spells where the animations are slower or the hit box is wrong or the like.

The thing about morrowinds combat is that you can come up with a game breaking strategy based around nearly any item or spell and it will be fun. The more actiony you make things, the less interesting non-dps effects become.

# ? Jan 9, 2017 20:48

SolidSnakesBandana: Jul 1, 2007; Infinite ammo

LeftistMuslimObama posted:

The things is, the more you depend on the players reflexes and skill in combat, the less incentive there is to pick "suboptimal" weapons or spells where the animations are slower or the hit box is wrong or the like.

Souls games counter this by making each weapon fairly unique. There are obvious stronger ones but people tend to still gravitate towards the one they click with the best. The 'optimal' weapons that new players gravitate towards often end up only being optimal for the early parts of the game.

Thats kinda one of my biggest issues with Skyrim. There's not enough cool weapons or loot. It sucks to go through a dungeon and find some basic rear end poo poo that you could have gotten from any in-game store. That's one of the reasons New Vegas was so good. Each named area had at least one hidden item/weapon in it somewhere.

SolidSnakesBandana fucked around with this message at 21:00 on Jan 9, 2017

# ? Jan 9, 2017 20:54

Mr. Crow: May 22, 2008; Snap City mayor for life

Doc Hawkins posted:

Improving combat is not a goal of the openmw project; enabling mods which make fundamental changes, like replacing combat systems, is.

That is what I said :confused:

I would also argue that's not entirely accurate. That's the goal for 1.0 and probably early updates, but the entire motivation for open sourcing the game in the first place is to eventually make adding sweeping engine and gameplay changes more feasible.

Mr. Crow fucked around with this message at 21:01 on Jan 9, 2017

# ? Jan 9, 2017 20:58

Death Zebra: May 14, 2014

SolidSnakesBandana posted:

Souls games counter this by making each weapon fairly unique. There are obvious stronger ones but people tend to still gravitate towards the one they click with the best. The 'optimal' weapons that new players gravitate towards often end up only being optimal for the early parts of the game.

Also, while I'm suggesting Souls style combat, it need not be as hard. If a weapon or strategy the player wants to use fun or role-playing ends up being a little too sub-optimal presumably there are difficulty sliders.

# ? Jan 9, 2017 21:04

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# ? May 31, 2024 14:08

SolidSnakesBandana: Jul 1, 2007; Infinite ammo

I'd say it needs a lot more horizontal progression. Right now in pretty much every Elder Scrolls game, once you get Daedric weapons you are basically set for life and there's no real reason to upgrade. I would ballpark that I'm around 25%-50% done with my Morrowind playthrough and I'm basically maxed out. The last things for me to do are spend ludicrous amounts of money to train skills, and eventually maybe enchanting but enchanting is insanely expensive in Morrowind Rebirth. I don't feel like bothering to add on-hit enchantments because its such a pain to keep that poo poo charged. I keep a glass jinkblade on me just in case, because its only 2lbs, but I doubt I'll ever need to use it.

Its also worth pointing out that you can get Daedric weapons very early on if you go to the right places. There's a daedric dagger you can get within 10 minutes of starting a new game, and encountering zero enemies. On the one hand I think that's really cool and open-worldy and stuff, but on the other hand it kills that feeling of progression.

SolidSnakesBandana fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Jan 9, 2017

# ? Jan 9, 2017 21:12

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Lets Reinstall Morrowind: You can't post here. Enemies are nearby.

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