Crawl .20: Home of the Frog Dog

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Crawl .20: Home of the Frog Dog

vOv: Feb 8, 2014

Can Of Worms posted:

From the discussions I heard in the dev irc, Felid jump was removed because it has complicated and extremely spoilery behaviour in specific circumstances.

What do you mean by 'spoilery'?

# ? Jan 9, 2017 06:56

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# ? May 13, 2024 23:04

LazyMaybe: Aug 18, 2013; oouagh

who doesn't like frogs

# ? Jan 9, 2017 07:06

LazyMaybe: Aug 18, 2013; oouagh

# ? Jan 9, 2017 07:07

Can Of Worms: Sep 4, 2011; That's not how the Triangle Attack works...

vOv posted:

What do you mean by 'spoilery'?

That's my faulty memory, the spoilery thing that was discussed was semi-controlled blink (there were a lot of rules governing what actually happened if you tried to do a semicontrolled blink.)

# ? Jan 9, 2017 07:08

cheetah7071: Oct 20, 2010; honk honk; College Slice

To make up for the fact that we only have one elf type and one dwarf type, the new races should be reflavored as dog dwarves and frog elves

# ? Jan 9, 2017 07:11

Floodkiller: May 31, 2011

cheetah7071 posted:

To make up for the fact that we only have one elf type and one dwarf type, the new races should be reflavored as dog dwarves and frog elves

# ? Jan 9, 2017 07:17

rchandra: Apr 30, 2013

cheetah7071 posted:

To make up for the fact that we only have one elf type and one dwarf type, the new races should be reflavored as dog dwarves and frog elves

Dogs do dig deeply, and frogs are sometimes found in the sludge...

# ? Jan 9, 2017 07:19

Dr. Fraiser Chain: May 18, 2004; Redlining my shit posting machine

Working on a new race for crawl called Eigh Hlf. They have pretty great stats and aps for hybrids. Please play and comment!

# ? Jan 9, 2017 07:59

Scaramouche: Mar 26, 2001; SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

Goodpancakes posted:

Working on a new race for crawl called Eigh Hlf. They have pretty great stats and aps for hybrids. Please play and comment!

Idea: unique racial spell, singularity

# ? Jan 9, 2017 08:02

logger: Jun 28, 2008; ...and in what manner the Ancyent Marinere came back to his own Country.; Soiled Meat

LORD OF BOOTY posted:

Is there something about Council God I'm not quite getting? It seems like going to Council God makes trying to hold onto a randart or otherwise good weapon absolutely impossible, in favor of countless unbranded +0 weapons.

I've found it's a very good god for a troll to take. The weapons created are based on the enchantment level of your current equipped weapon and an unarmed troll's claws are treated as enchanted and vorpal and grow in power more as you level up.

# ? Jan 9, 2017 09:03

dpeg: Jul 18, 2008; As far as I see it, you should never go to SA to look out for useful feedback or even interesting ideas; I certainly don't

Alright, I am sorry about missing the Singular suggestions. I guess I've been relying on Tavern for this kind of feedback (no offense to you folks, that's what GDD --the design tavern subforum-- was intended to be about), and neglected it here. It's also noteworthy that Tavern has a different set of obsessions compared to this place

Heitsinn: I think I see what you mean about species variance. Perhaps we've been doing this for so long that our standards don't connect to the player base anymore? On the other hand, I think there *is* more value (replayability or whatever) in having DE+Op over DE+HE, say. As far as gimmicks go, I have the feeling that gimmicks of DS and Op are intuitive and popular. Sure, there's a bunch of species trying hard to push the envelope, but who wouldn't?

I hope that the Council God makes it in. The latest incarnation is a lot of fun, try it on CBRO! If we're lucky, 0.20 has one more god and two new species (so a net gain), and Crawl keeps getting fatter, like roguelikes do.

# ? Jan 9, 2017 13:40

Speleothing: May 6, 2008; Spare batteries are pretty key.

I should have said frog, dog

# ? Jan 9, 2017 13:44

tote up a bags: Jun 8, 2006; die stoats die

FR: A chicken race, with unique ability survive 50 turns after death

# ? Jan 9, 2017 13:47

Floodkiller: May 31, 2011

Cynos are now on CBRO Experimental! Drop your feedback here if you have any!

# ? Jan 9, 2017 14:53

LazyMaybe: Aug 18, 2013; oouagh

gently caress dude

# ? Jan 9, 2017 15:04

Araganzar: May 24, 2003; Needs more cowbell!; Fun Shoe

So I wanted to see how ridiculous an Op could get with Gozag in a 3-rune game and turns out pretty ridiculous.

code:

araganzar the Hoplite (Octopode Fighter)           Turns: 74176, Time: 05:14:22

Health: 208/208    AC: 34    Str: 40      XL:     27
Magic:  34/48      EV: 43    Int: 26 (27) God:    Gozag
Gold:   1423       SH: 37    Dex: 36      Spells: 0/50 levels left

rFire  + + +      SeeInvis +    a - +9 broad axe (pain)
rCold  + + .      Gourm    .    M - +6 large shield of Ignorance {rN+ AC+4 Int-6 *Curse} (curse)
rNeg   + + +      Faith    .    g - +3 crown of Dyrovepreva {rElec Int+2 SInv}
rPois  ∞          Spirit   .    W - amulet "Nokeogin" {*Drain +Rage rF+ Dex+3 Slay+3}
rElec  +          Reflect  .    R - ring of Awe {*Contam rF+ rN+ Int+7 Dex+2}
rCorr  +          Harm     .    o - ring "Gaoffot" {*Drain +Fly rF+ Int+9 Stlth-}
MR     +++..                    G - ring of Buahem {Ice rElec Str+4 Int+3}
Stlth  +++.......               B - ring "Homiogaa" {Wiz rF+ rN+ MR+ Dex+2}
                                S - ring "Pumiunuv" {MP+9 Str+3 Dex+7 Stlth-}
                                T - ring of the Crushed Wars {Int-4 Slay+4 SInv}
                                r - ring of the Octopus King {AC+1 EV+1 Str+1 Int+1 Dex+1 Stlth+}
                                p - ring "Uracw" {+Inv Str+2 Int+3 Dex+2}

I am now playing Hopkins Tree Skalds, come play one on CBRO! I will let you know how they are if I ever have a game where I find a better short or long blade than my starting +0 falchion.

# ? Jan 9, 2017 15:38

Darth Windu: Mar 17, 2009; by Smythe

Whoa when did hill orcs get the same stats as demonspawn, i remember them being much stronger

# ? Jan 9, 2017 17:25

Darth Windu: Mar 17, 2009; by Smythe

By the way dpeg and pleasant fungus,, maybe you could give hill orcs somewhat similar aps to high elves?? After all they are basically High Orcs

# ? Jan 9, 2017 17:31

PleasingFungus: Oct 10, 2012; idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

Johnny Joestar posted:

mostly i'm not sure what the frog race really adds. i'll enjoy any race that's not merfolk that gets vaguely decent ice magic aptitudes, but if the only real selling point worth pointing out is 'it can jump' then part of me wonders why we need a species specifically for that.

hopping is fun. it's not really notable on stronger characters (who can just steamroller through everything anyway, especially early on), but on weaker ones, being able to/having to rely on hopping to get out of rough situations, or being able to use it to hop in - that's a bit different from what i've gotten from any other crawl race.

the big advantage of having hopping as a racial ability is that (a) it's available from turn 1, and (b) you can package it with drawbacks strong enough to balance out a very powerful ability (which hop certainly is!). you could in principle make hop a god ability, but it overlaps to a certain extent with lucy & ru there, and also has the problem of needing many other god abilities and mechanics alongside it to make a full god. on the other hand, a race can just be a race.

some people have been saying that barachians need Something More to really reach its full distinctiveness potential. posssssssibly some variant of the tongue attack ability that's been tossed around, though i do worry about excessive/annoying ability spam... but regardless, the loose devcensus seems to be that ba are At Least Okay as they are. (and there's plenty of time to fiddle with them before release, of course.)

PleasingFungus fucked around with this message at 17:45 on Jan 9, 2017

# ? Jan 9, 2017 17:40

odiv: Jan 12, 2003

Skin mutation at lvl7.

Poisonous skin, psychoactive skin, camouflage skin, etc?

# ? Jan 9, 2017 17:42

Fitzy Fitz: May 14, 2005

Swallowing ability and also you use your eyes to help push the food down.

e: auxiliary tongue slap attack

Fitzy Fitz fucked around with this message at 17:49 on Jan 9, 2017

# ? Jan 9, 2017 17:44

FulsomFrank: Sep 11, 2005; Hard on for love

odiv posted:

Skin mutation at lvl7.

Poisonous skin, psychoactive skin, camouflage skin, etc?

That would be really cool. What does Pyschoactive do though? Create shadow creatures around any monster that melees you?

# ? Jan 9, 2017 17:49

PleasingFungus: Oct 10, 2012; idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

Ferrinus posted:

Why DID they take pounce away from Felids? Was it too strong? Does "too strong" really make sense for such a lovely species?

the original reasoning is here. the core seems to have been:

quote:

So fans of jump-attack can worship Dith to get an ability that works better in general because of shadow-step's very specific (and non-annoying) targeting restrictions, its better range, and its not having awkward compromises from trying to combine attack with movement on a ability requiring no investment...

'unclear/annoying targeting restrictions, and awkward compromises from combining attack & movement on a 0-investment ability'.

at the time, i thought (and said) that it was a bit of a silly removal; i didn't think the problems were that bad, and it was fun to use. but between shadow step and power leap, the 'jumping at enemies and/or attacking them' niche is pretty well covered these days.

cheetah7071 posted:

To make up for the fact that we only have one elf type and one dwarf type, the new races should be reflavored as dog dwarves and frog elves

what if we only want to have one type of elf and one type of dwarf? what if it's nice to not have an entire Elf Section of the manual? chew on that one.

# ? Jan 9, 2017 17:56

PleasingFungus: Oct 10, 2012; idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

wow, 0.20 sure came out fast

# ? Jan 9, 2017 17:58

Elusif: Jun 9, 2008

Yeah sorry I was so excited about the possible new thread title I reported it right away. Those mods work fast.

# ? Jan 9, 2017 18:06

Ugly John: Jul 18, 2009; [img]https://forums.somethingawful.com/attachment.php?postid=514899866[/img]

Crawl .20: BaCK to the Future

# ? Jan 9, 2017 18:08

Johnny Joestar: Oct 21, 2010; Don't shoot him?

...
...

PleasingFungus posted:

hopping is fun. it's not really notable on stronger characters (who can just steamroller through everything anyway, especially early on), but on weaker ones, being able to/having to rely on hopping to get out of rough situations, or being able to use it to hop in - that's a bit different from what i've gotten from any other crawl race.

the big advantage of having hopping as a racial ability is that (a) it's available from turn 1, and (b) you can package it with drawbacks strong enough to balance out a very powerful ability (which hop certainly is!). you could in principle make hop a god ability, but it overlaps to a certain extent with lucy & ru there, and also has the problem of needing many other god abilities and mechanics alongside it to make a full god. on the other hand, a race can just be a race.

some people have been saying that barachians need Something More to really reach its full distinctiveness potential. posssssssibly some variant of the tongue attack ability that's been tossed around, though i do worry about excessive/annoying ability spam... but regardless, the loose devcensus seems to be that ba are At Least Okay as they are. (and there's plenty of time to fiddle with them before release, of course.)

that answers my questions well enough i'd say. but yeah, the frogs feel like they need something more to them. i'd spring for some kind of passive boon that they get after so many levels. various skins sounds neat if done well.

# ? Jan 9, 2017 18:53

lizardhunt: Feb 7, 2010; agreed ->

PleasingFungus posted:

wow, 0.20 sure came out fast

Saves the effort of a new thread I guess. :shrug:

# ? Jan 9, 2017 18:57

Darth Windu: Mar 17, 2009; by Smythe

Been playing a lot of demonspawn today and of course they get lots of new mutations lmao

I got one where my blood congeals into armor (hello china mieville) and i get like 10 AC if i get hit hard enough, plus another where my body fit armor relaly well (-4 ER), neat stuff. just wish ds had better apts tho. theyre obviously a dev favorite so please give them +1 longblades....

# ? Jan 9, 2017 19:35

Darth Windu: Mar 17, 2009; by Smythe

Or my awesome suggestion a long time ago to give humans the ability to customize their apts to a limited extent...that'd be really neat imo

# ? Jan 9, 2017 19:36

Ferrinus: Jun 19, 2003; i'm finding this quite easy, i guess in part because i'm a fast type but also because i have a coherent mental model of the world

I just wish there was some way to force a Ds character to become or abstain from becoming monstrous, or even to choose whether they get claws or not, since that's my primary determination or which weapon skill to train and the reason I always start Ds characters as casters.

# ? Jan 9, 2017 20:01

cheetah7071: Oct 20, 2010; honk honk; College Slice

PleasingFungus posted:

what if we only want to have one type of elf and one type of dwarf? what if it's nice to not have an entire Elf Section of the manual? chew on that one.

Personally then, as one person with one set of aesthetic values, I'd like to see deep elves renamed just Elves, hill orcs renamed just Orcs, and deep dwarves reflavored to not be dwarves. The subrace thing doesn't make sense to me unless we actually see multiple subraces.

Alternatively, enemies could be renamed to show off the different subraces. High elf blademasters and sludge elf elementalists could roam the elven halls. Dwarves would still be stuck out in the cold though.

# ? Jan 9, 2017 20:24

gammafunk: Dec 19, 2015

Can Of Worms posted:

That's my faulty memory, the spoilery thing that was discussed was semi-controlled blink (there were a lot of rules governing what actually happened if you tried to do a semicontrolled blink.)

The reasons for removing jump attack were described in the commit removing it: https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3cebfc1d9e22

# ? Jan 9, 2017 23:09

Internet Kraken: Apr 24, 2010; slightly amused

Does MR have any impact on tarantulas confusion bites? If not, how exactly am I supposed to do spider as a mummy and not die to a confusion stunlock?

IronicDongz posted:

gently caress dude

"Dynamic monsters" sounds like its going to be a complete kick in the balls for weaker combos that already struggle in the early game while strong combos that just steamroll everything won't even notice it. What's the point?

EDIT: Also PF if you don't give frogs innate apportation via tongue pulling I'm gonna be very disappointed.

Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at 00:17 on Jan 10, 2017

# ? Jan 10, 2017 00:14

Carcer: Aug 7, 2010

Apportation is cool and all but what do people actually use it on? I always get it if I can find it but then I mostly never use it.

# ? Jan 10, 2017 00:59

Speleothing: May 6, 2008; Spare batteries are pretty key.

A complete kick in the balls for all casual players, you mean.

Edit: grabbing items from territory you're afraid to explore into. To avoid waking up monsters or because Eels.

# ? Jan 10, 2017 01:01

Mr. Lobe: Feb 23, 2007; ... Dry bones...

Carcer posted:

Apportation is cool and all but what do people actually use it on? I always get it if I can find it but then I mostly never use it.

It's super useful in the abyss where you may see a scroll of acquirement, but wandering over to fetch it may mean engaging with 10 screaming stars pawn.

# ? Jan 10, 2017 01:04

taqueso: Mar 8, 2004

Carcer posted:

Apportation is cool and all but what do people actually use it on? I always get it if I can find it but then I mostly never use it.

Mostly random crap that is across some lava or deep water. So not too much. I really should start using it like Speleothing said, to get items from areas I don't want to explore.

# ? Jan 10, 2017 01:04

LordSloth: Mar 7, 2008; Disgruntled (IT) Employee

Internet Kraken posted:

Does MR have any impact on tarantulas confusion bites? If not, how exactly am I supposed to do spider as a mummy and not die to a confusion stunlock?

AFAIK, Nope. With some specifics on your character and resources, I might be able to offer some specific suggestions. For an unintentionally snide answer: Don't. For a third rune, Tomb might be doable with necromancy miscasts nullified. Greater mummies don't have dispel undead, though some of their summons might. Depending on MR, Sphinx will either be a non-issue or an equally serious threat. The real danger would probably lie in Bennu. If you venture into the abyss, that rune should be viable without any malmutes getting in the way.

If you're not concerned with the rune so much as the experience, the simplest solution is to supplement your build with some evocations. Tarantella only have 20 MR, rendering them pretty vulnerable. You're still at a fair risk turning corners, or fighting melee thanks to their speed of 15 and tendency to show up with other monsters. Still, Evasion and Shields will factor as a sort of resistance albeit not ideal.

# ? Jan 10, 2017 01:09

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# ? May 13, 2024 23:04

PleasingFungus: Oct 10, 2012; idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

Internet Kraken posted:

"Dynamic monsters" sounds like its going to be a complete kick in the balls for weaker combos that already struggle in the early game while strong combos that just steamroll everything won't even notice it. What's the point?

the idea is that it discourages the Hypothetically Optimal Behaviour of luring every single enemy you encounter a screen or two back before fighting it, so that nearby enemies don't wander into the fight or something.

for once, i'm on the "who cares? who actually does that? (does this even solve the problem?)" side, but what can i do? i'm retired...

# ? Jan 10, 2017 01:13

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