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JcDent
May 13, 2013

Give me a rifle, one round, and point me at Berlin!
Cut out of an old ork warboss

Shaped from an Emperor-class hull shavings

Recovered from a Hrud temple

Tempered in the reactor heart of a Warlord titan

Made from a fused collar of a battle psyker

Made from the dental fillings of Black Ship inmates

Crafted from the hull of a Leman Russ that had crushed a Farseer

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Felime
Jul 10, 2009

Jack B Nimble posted:

Awesome weapon names, I'll put them in the sheet, thanks.

The accurate nerf makes accurate weapons unsuitable for fights where the players need to shoot on the run, they're still good for defensive fights and ambushes/assassinations. Basically you want to use an accurate weapon if 1)you can get set up before the fight starts and 2)you don't think you'll have to move. Now, if your concern is that you can't look at a long las or sniper rifle and say 'yes, this is what I will use on everything that isn't a horde', well, there you go. Our concerns are when a weapon is over used (or underused). Personally, if I was going to carry a sniper rifle with these rules I'd make sure to carry the best grenades and pistol I could.

Speaking of which, some ideas when had yesterday:

We rarely see players use Missile Launchers, the ammo, both in the reload and in the carrying, is too punishing. We're thinking giving it a 3 round clip but we're not sure yet (also it was surprisingly hard to GIS a 2nd ed. space marine holding a Missile Launcher with a clip, they're all photographed from the wrong side. What we did decide is to give the Missile Launcher a new "Lock On" rule that says you can take a total of four aim actions with a ML for a +40 to hit. Currently there aren't any Heavy Weapons designed for ambush/sneak attack, and ML could fit that niche.

Flamers are only chosen by characters who really really can't shoot, which is ok I guess, but also their damage is not so hot. But what if their attacks always forced a pin test (semi auto for pistol/basic, full auto for heavy)? If that's not enough, what if they were also Felling 1 or 2?

The Betrayal at Calth Marines have old-style missile launchers. Plugging "betrayal at calth missile launcher" into google gives you plenty of good pictures from varying angles. I'm too lazy to figure out how to link to a google search properly/concisely without using lmgtfy and being a condescending rear end in a top hat at this hour.

JcDent
May 13, 2013

Give me a rifle, one round, and point me at Berlin!
Or you can go Forgeworld

Tias
May 25, 2008

Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund
That takes me back to playing space crusade as a kid!

Relevant Tangent
Nov 18, 2016

Tangentially Relevant

Pulled from a stone
Foraged by hereteks on a Death World
Horked up by a Mauler Fiend
Ripped from a Chaos Titan's leg
Forged from as many different Xenos weapons as we could find

goatface
Dec 5, 2007

I had a video of that when I was about 6.

I remember it being shit.


Grimey Drawer
Pulled out of a skip
Found in a bin
Pulled out of a corpse pile
Covered in dried blood
Covered in dried vomit
Made from stolen street signs by a guy named Keith in his basement
A Chinese Kalashnikov (only kidding, it's an even cheaper Somali knock-off)

Hexenritter
May 20, 2001


"Borrowed" from some guy named Reg
Scrap-built and totally reliable
Smells faintly of burnt meat
Covered in bright yellow, white and black checkers with a partially legible "--rgue" logo on the side.
Bears the legend "to Milford, have fun at work. Mum"

Inexplicable Humblebrag
Sep 20, 2003

"Awkward to have written on a character sheet or to shout out in combat"

Jack B Nimble
Dec 25, 2007


Soiled Meat
I'm choosing short ones or shortening them myself yeah, but I do want to point out this doesn't replace the weapons normal name, it's two different cells. So it would say "Bolt Pistol" and "Chapel 8 Kraftwerks" or "Stub Revolver" and "Guttersmithed". I want to add some fluff to our weapon lists which are almost entirely "I have a best quality Carnadon and really like it" but I don't want to go the total other way to "I pull out my War Drum. No not the instrument, the drum magazine that settlers of Ithaca IV load onto their hunting shotguns when rallying as a militia, a ritualized event marking-what do you mean my turn is over?"

And actually finding the perfect wording to convey, in like two words ideally, the origin of the weapon, is hard. Like a flamer could be a "Repurposed Agri-Tool", which is hopefully a dense enough description to do the job. So more help with that would be fantastic. Still, this cell probably needs to go at the end of the stat block though, so it can run off to the end of the sheet :v:

Jack B Nimble fucked around with this message at 02:09 on Jan 10, 2017

SardonicTyrant
Feb 26, 2016

BTICH IM A NEWT
熱くなれ夢みた明日を
必ずいつかつかまえる
走り出せ振り向くことなく
&



Why not go further and start allowing small modifications to statted weapons? Say increasing the clip size of your autopistol from 15 to 18, or increasing the range of a rifle to +10 meters? Something less powerful than a normal modification.

Schizotek
Nov 8, 2011

I say, hey, listen to me!
Stay sane inside insanity!!!
Go whole-hog and just re-purpose the Dwarf Fortress artifact generator.
This is a scrap iron Sword. All materials are of the lowest quality. It is encrusted with vomit and blood. On the sword is painted an image of a phallus. The phallus is screaming.

Schizotek fucked around with this message at 23:32 on Jan 10, 2017

Skellybones
May 31, 2011




Fun Shoe
Don't dox me

EthanSteele
Nov 18, 2007

I can hear you

SardonicTyrant posted:

Why not go further and start allowing small modifications to statted weapons? Say increasing the clip size of your autopistol from 15 to 18, or increasing the range of a rifle to +10 meters? Something less powerful than a normal modification.

OW has a bunch of these with the restriction of only being able to do it to regimental weapons. Just neat little mods that aren't as incredible as full blown ones, but still a nice bonus to customise your thing.

Jack B Nimble
Dec 25, 2007


Soiled Meat
We're going to make armor mods like more pockets, padding for fall/crash damage, extreme weather lining etc, and say you get to install one at normal quality, more at good, etc. We could do the same with guns but I'm wary of improving damage or absorption.

One mod I like is the idea of a trauma plate, which doesn't reduce damage but does lessen crit. Maybe only once? Or maybe by five points, either all at once or two then three, like that.

Jack B Nimble fucked around with this message at 17:13 on Jan 11, 2017

Werix
Sep 13, 2012

#acolyte GM of 2013

Jack B Nimble posted:

We're going to make armor mods like more pockets, padding for fall/crash damage, extreme weather lining etc, and say you get to install one at normal quality, more at good, etc. We could do the same with guns but I'm wary of improving damage or absorption.

One mod I like is the idea of a trauma plate, which doesn't reduce damage but does lessen crit. Maybe only once? Or maybe by five points, either all at once or two then three, like that.

Have the trauma plate something that activates once and negates all damage from an attack that does over X damage after armor and Toughness, so it is designed to lessen that one big hit that would nuke all a player's wounds or something.

Some sort of kinetic/heat reactive gel that stiffens/absorbs in the presence of a sudden shock and dissipates the energy, but needs to be replaced each time.

Negating crit is what Stimm is for.

Rockopolis
Dec 21, 2012

I MAKE FUN OF QUEER STORYGAMES BECAUSE I HAVE NOTHING BETTER TO DO WITH MY LIFE THAN MAKE OTHER PEOPLE CRY

I can't understand these kinds of games, and not getting it bugs me almost as much as me being weird
Ablative armor that starts with a high rating, but loses it to attacks and needs repairs?
I think they're called Comrades.

Jack B Nimble
Dec 25, 2007


Soiled Meat
Who here used to think the Palladium books weapon glossary was really cool? Click for the full size.

Tias
May 25, 2008

Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund
I need your help, warhams!

So I ran with the "5 metre statue plot"( I'm sorry goatface, your idea was simply too amazing to not steal!).

They have arrived, and are being told the full and embarassing story of why there's a huge-rear end navy coming to invade the system. They were really insistant on learning who brought up the rule about statue sizes, and having not thought about that, I quickly made up a story about a petty lawyer in the sector government being envious of the shrine worlds income.

Now they're thinking solutions, one being the installment of a magnifying glass in front of the statue( which, as they themselves pointed out, may not stand up to scrutiny), taking a cast and making a bigger statue from a material resembling the agate it's made from using Mechanicum connections( much better!) or attempting to bargain with ordo Hereticus for a "gem-psyker", if one such exists( a delightfully insane option!).

Now I'm kind of stuck on what kind of challenge to provide for the next session. The players, having heard about the lawyer, is treating him like an adversary and are concerned that, whatever they come up with, he will make their result pointless by superior legalese. I didn't mean for him to be a character at all, and I'm wondering how, if it all, to integrate him.

Perhaps going to see the Mechanicum, and then running back through a fleet embargo, would make for a good challenge, but it seems rather abstract how to put it in rolls.

Any ideas on how to run this would be much appreciated!

SardonicTyrant
Feb 26, 2016

BTICH IM A NEWT
熱くなれ夢みた明日を
必ずいつかつかまえる
走り出せ振り向くことなく
&



This isn't a matter of law, but politics and heated emotions. Let your characters engage in some realpolitik to solve the issue. Your players are Acolytes, and can operate outside the laws of the Imperium. Let them do so.

You could easily expand the lawyer to be a puppet of some nefarious plot that may or may not revolve around the statue as well.

SardonicTyrant fucked around with this message at 23:33 on Jan 16, 2017

goatface
Dec 5, 2007

I had a video of that when I was about 6.

I remember it being shit.


Grimey Drawer
Put the lawyer on one of the ships, being brought along to witness his glorious plan come to fruition. That should get them to make sure their successful result is only discovered in the middle of a planet-wide broadcast with him on stage.

Alternatively, counter lawyer with judge. Encourage them to involve the Arbites about someone dicking with pax. Bonus points if they convince them to arrest the incoming fleet for intent to cause a serious affray.

Skellybones
May 31, 2011




Fun Shoe
The Arbites do have their own space navy, so they can arrest space criminals.

Panama Red
Jul 30, 2003

Only in America could you find a way to earn a healthy buck and still keep your attitude on self destruct
Other than the Game Room, where is a good place to find play-by-post for Warhammer 40k Roleplay? I'm particularly looking for games that are friendly to beginners. I'm open to any of the systems, but in order of preference it'd be: Dark Heresy (2e), Deathwatch, Only War, Rogue Trader or Black Crusade.

Tias
May 25, 2008

Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund

goatface posted:

Put the lawyer on one of the ships, being brought along to witness his glorious plan come to fruition. That should get them to make sure their successful result is only discovered in the middle of a planet-wide broadcast with him on stage.

Alternatively, counter lawyer with judge. Encourage them to involve the Arbites about someone dicking with pax. Bonus points if they convince them to arrest the incoming fleet for intent to cause a serious affray.

Hmm, that might work. Let's see, three-pronged approach. If they're happy with just teching a new solution, they can do that and attempt to convince the adeptus administratum jobs a good un - If they want to consider the lawyer adversary a primary focus, they can either confront him and strong-arm him into dropping the claim, or if they're clever, dig through his skeletons and blackmail him out of it( or have the arbites gently caress him up).

How does that sound? Disclaimer: My players are new to the setting, and I'm worried what I can do to make the options clear to them.

Zereth
Jul 9, 2003



Tias posted:

How does that sound? Disclaimer: My players are new to the setting, and I'm worried what I can do to make the options clear to them.
Tell different players that because of their various Lore skills, they're aware of certain options. Be sure to spread them out among the players. Don't make them roll for it, in case they fail horribly at it, the point is to feed them information.

Jack B Nimble
Dec 25, 2007


Soiled Meat

Zereth posted:

Don't make them roll for it, in case they fail horribly at it, the point is to feed them information.

For real. GM's gating stuff behind skill checks is starting to get to me. In one game I have a 20 awareness (perception?) after putting a point in it, and every. single. time. I ask the GM if the dead guy has loot, he tells me to roll search and tells me no when I fail. The act of my character patting someone's pockets teleports their contents to another dimension. I should start searching bad guys during combat to deprive them of grenades and stuff.

Pharmaskittle
Dec 17, 2007

arf arf put the money in the fuckin bag

Jack B Nimble posted:

For real. GM's gating stuff behind skill checks is starting to get to me. In one game I have a 20 awareness (perception?) after putting a point in it, and every. single. time. I ask the GM if the dead guy has loot, he tells me to roll search and tells me no when I fail. The act of my character patting someone's pockets teleports their contents to another dimension. I should start searching bad guys during combat to deprive them of grenades and stuff.

The first chaos mutation everyone gets is a prison wallet.

Ashcans
Jan 2, 2006

Let's do the space-time warp again!

I don't think that is how skill checks are meant to work in any case, things like Search and Perception are intended to see if you can find something that is concealed or disguised, not to confirm you can perform the basic task of empying someone's pockets. Maybe you make someone take a check to find a concealed pocket or notice that something has been hidden in the lining of a coat, but that's it.

kingcom
Jun 23, 2012

Ashcans posted:

I don't think that is how skill checks are meant to work in any case, things like Search and Perception are intended to see if you can find something that is concealed or disguised, not to confirm you can perform the basic task of empying someone's pockets. Maybe you make someone take a check to find a concealed pocket or notice that something has been hidden in the lining of a coat, but that's it.

Also I need to emphasize this because people get it wrong constantly playing rpgs. If there is no consequence for failure or no particular time restraint, DO NOT ROLL. Just have them do whatever they were trying to do and find whatever they were trying to find. This is especially important if they need to find something to keep the plot going forward and/or to keep momentum in the game session.

Elukka
Feb 18, 2011

For All Mankind

Jack B Nimble posted:

For real. GM's gating stuff behind skill checks is starting to get to me. In one game I have a 20 awareness (perception?) after putting a point in it, and every. single. time. I ask the GM if the dead guy has loot, he tells me to roll search and tells me no when I fail. The act of my character patting someone's pockets teleports their contents to another dimension. I should start searching bad guys during combat to deprive them of grenades and stuff.
That's not how it's supposed to work. A +-0 skill check is considered challenging - it's something that is fairly difficult to do. Checking a body for loot is completely trivial and anyone could do it. If you rolled, it shouldn't be possible to fail so you don't roll in the first place. That's the mechanical logic behind why you don't roll for some things, the common sense logic is that rolling for everything is silly and tedious.

If you're looting a body I might call a roll if there's something concealed or non-obvious on it or you're in a particular hurry or something. Otherwise it's not something that should take a roll.

The Lone Badger
Sep 24, 2007

A Challenging (+0) roll would be to find the documents hidden inside their coat lining. Finding the grenade on their belt would be a non-roll.

Hexenritter
May 20, 2001


kingcom posted:

Also I need to emphasize this because people get it wrong constantly playing rpgs. If there is no consequence for failure or no particular time restraint, DO NOT ROLL. Just have them do whatever they were trying to do and find whatever they were trying to find. This is especially important if they need to find something to keep the plot going forward and/or to keep momentum in the game session.

My old GM used to fake rolls behind his screen sometimes so it didn't seem too handwavey.

Jack B Nimble
Dec 25, 2007


Soiled Meat
I hear you, but he's a new GM and there are some more important issues with his game - pacing, attention, etc, that I'll worry about before this loot thing. But yeah, I'm going to bring it up later. It's actually a good game, I just wanted to vent about that pet peeve.

I think mostly he's using it as a way to be random/improvise which isn't what it's made for.

MaliciousOnion
Sep 23, 2009

Ignorance, the root of all evil
Roll Perception to see if your GM is bad.

mdct
Sep 2, 2011

Tingle tingle kooloo limpah.
These are my magic words.

Don't steal them.
I rolled a 96. That's 6 degrees of failure.

Waci
May 30, 2011

A boy and his dog.
Remind your GM that test difficulty modifiers exist for a reason. Skill tests are cool and make character building options other than I shoot gun feel meaningful, but goddammit do people use them poorly.

Elukka
Feb 18, 2011

For All Mankind

Jack B Nimble posted:

I think mostly he's using it as a way to be random/improvise which isn't what it's made for.
Well, if he wants to roll for randomized loot, he can do that himself according to whatever criteria he likes and then just tell you what the loot is.

Ronwayne
Nov 20, 2007

That warm and fuzzy feeling.
40k rpg kinda falls apart with borderlands loot systems, despite any sort of setting similarities.

Jack B Nimble
Dec 25, 2007


Soiled Meat
Thank you guys, you're right; I'll wait for a tactful time to bring it up.

Ashcans
Jan 2, 2006

Let's do the space-time warp again!

I definitely think you should bring it up, because not understanding the way that skill checks work is incredibly frustrating for a GM as well. Like he wants to feed you some information for the plot, and figures 'Oh, ok, I guess that is a Lore check?' but he forgets the difficulty slider, so everyone is failing the check. Now he's frustrated - he thought that someone would pass, he didn't want to just give you this information but it makes things a lot easier for you, what does he do to get it to you? Does he just hand it to you? What was the point of the check? If he realizes that those checks are supposed to be done at +20 or something, it helps solve this problem - suddenly players aren't flailing around at basic tasks! They can get some stuff done, and the challenging checks actually feel tense because its not just 'You failed to wipe your rear end' for the tenth time that session.

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SardonicTyrant
Feb 26, 2016

BTICH IM A NEWT
熱くなれ夢みた明日を
必ずいつかつかまえる
走り出せ振り向くことなく
&



Jack B Nimble posted:

Thank you guys, you're right; I'll wait for a tactful time to bring it up.
Maybe instead of asking what loot mooks have, let your GM know what you're looking for ("I'm quickly patting them down for a pouch of thrones and some clips of ammo"). This way he doesn't have to come up with something on his own.

Ashcans posted:

If he realizes that those checks are supposed to be done at +20 or something, it helps solve this problem - suddenly players aren't flailing around at basic tasks!
This right here is a weird quirk of the system that I think is responsible for a lot of problems.

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