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While I'm at it read Elijah Wald's book about rap too. Especially yall white folks, since all your pearl clutching about how mean and crazy I am is because you don't know about the dozens
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Jan 10, 2017 00:06
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:While I'm at it read Elijah Wald's book about rap too. Especially yall white folks, since all your pearl clutching about how mean and crazy I am is because you don't know about the dozens loving dammit, I really liked your last avatar. You have only been back for a short time and people are already salty.
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Jan 10, 2017 00:09
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blackguy32 posted:loving dammit, I really liked your last avatar. You have only been back for a short time and people are already salty. I feel like someone who hates the fact that this thread even exists just buys people new AVs to try and cause drama.
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Jan 10, 2017 00:12
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7c Nickel posted:I feel like someone who hates the fact that this thread even exists just buys people new AVs to try and cause drama. My money's on the guy who pretty transparently buys his own avs and then stomps around Misogynoir accusing me and KM of doing it.
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Jan 10, 2017 00:14
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Elijah Wald Oh man I loved his portrayal of Frodo! 
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Jan 10, 2017 00:15
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seiferguy posted:Kind of on the topic of stealing black culture: Elvis. What's the opinion on him? My mixed gf has mentioned that her entire family hates the guy because he stole black music and claimed it as his own, especially Hound Dog (being stolen from Mama Rae). I've heard others claim that he brought black music more mainstream, and always claimed that he had influences from black musicians. I mean, the problem was that "race music" was already mainstream because white teenagers kept buying it. Promoting white artists and calling it "rock-n-roll" was a way to legitimize the music from being something that crossed the color line in dangerous and unpredictable ways into something safe. Elvis came along a bit after this was already beginning and rockabilly was becoming a distinct musical form, but he was certainly still part of this process of appropriation which has left Buddy Holly and the Big Bopper as the image of rock-n-roll's early days instead of Howlin' Wolf and Screamin' Jay Hawkins.
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Jan 10, 2017 00:19
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:My money's on the guy who pretty transparently buys his own avs and then stomps around Misogynoir accusing me and KM of doing it. It's a sure fire way to make certain recent visitors double down like hell too. Much easier to gently caress with the thread anonymously that way.
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Jan 10, 2017 00:26
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"What those black people are doing looks like fun, we should join them and then kick them out." - A History of White Culture
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Jan 10, 2017 00:40
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Music and art is pretty much a bunch of artists copying each other all of the time and adding their own little twist, you cant literally 'steal' culture, that's dumb.
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Jan 10, 2017 00:47
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Fados posted:Music and art is pretty much a bunch of artists copying each other all of the time and adding their own little twist, you cant literally 'steal' culture, that's dumb. Sound the alarm, hot take forge's down a man. Don't you know it's not safe to operate the machinery without a full complement of workers? There is cultural exchange and cultural appropriation. Both exist, one is fine, one is not fine. Now who are you going to be, the guy who learns things or the guy who has a tantrum?
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Jan 10, 2017 00:50
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Fados posted:Music and art is pretty much a bunch of artists copying each other all of the time and adding their own little twist, you cant literally 'steal' culture, that's dumb. Are you in fact a musician or an artist? Your comment displays a whole lotta ignorance on how music and art works. Well, I have to admit to being largely ignorant on visual art but I can loving tell you for sure that's not how music works. It's such a gross oversimplification of what actually happens that it makes no sense at all.
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Jan 10, 2017 00:58
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Fados posted:Music and art is pretty much a bunch of artists copying each other all of the time and adding their own little twist, you cant literally 'steal' culture, that's dumb. Do you know who Leadbelly and Robert Johnson are? Why don't you? Consider that for a moment.
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Jan 10, 2017 00:59
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Brainiac Five posted:Do you know who Leadbelly and Robert Johnson are? Why don't you? Consider that for a moment. lol everyone knows who leadbelly and robert johnson are
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Jan 10, 2017 01:03
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biracial bear for uncut posted:I don't think I've ever said anything against that. It was just weird from my perspective to see anyone defend the character of a rich white person, especially after the recent pages of (true assertions) that all white people in America are racist, and how it's pretty much a given that any rich white person you examine in America will have gotten there as a direct result of slavery. This isn't actually the "poo poo on white people" thread. That's just a natural byproduct of discussing the black community, culture, and issues. Black posters can think well of someone who hasn't given them a reason not to even if they're a white woman from Tennessee. Dolly is beloved for a lot of reason, but not the least because she's a successful singer-songwriter who plays her own instruments in a world that rarely allows women to do that, and then judges them for not doing it. Country is a distressingly white genre, but it's always been good for women which is more than you can say about a lot of other genres, especially captain dick-measure of the SS fragile masculinity rock and roll. Sister Rosetta Tharpe, who helped create the drat genre and arguably cut the first rock record, is just one of the many, many women excluded from the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.
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Jan 10, 2017 01:05
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:There is cultural exchange and cultural appropriation. Both exist, one is fine, one is not fine. Now who are you going to be, the guy who learns things or the guy who has a tantrum?
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Jan 10, 2017 01:05
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Zas posted:lol everyone knows who leadbelly and robert johnson are Everyone who knows a single thing about music, yes. But I am not confident that Fados does.
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Jan 10, 2017 01:06
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Brainiac Five posted:Everyone who knows a single thing about music, yes. But I am not confident that Fados does. true my apologies
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Jan 10, 2017 01:12
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zegermans posted:everyone loves Stahlregen's videos Nope. It was videos of a dude pirating in a Rifter or Wolf in lowsec and it was amazing. Nevvy Z posted:The reason that white people stealing culture from black people is ironically funny is the same reason any joke whose premise relies on a black person stealing something from a white person isn't funny. As my grandfather said, white folks haven't invented anything but the patent office. Tiny Brontosaurus posted:I never connected these dots in my mind before, but to me Elvis is kind of like Macklemore. These are guys who genuinely truly love the music they're influenced by, and the black artists who made it. Accusations of cultural appropriation leave them hurt and confused, because in their minds they're just adding to the body of work they already love. Since they're so aware of their black predecessors they assume their fans are too, but they aren't. Eh, I don't give Elvis or Mackelmore a pass, for the exact same reason. If you know you're a pale imitation (of Bo Diddley/Kendrick Lamar respectively), then you can always walk away. I'm not about to strip agency from white males in America of their ability to actually walk away from things. One of the first steps of finding out something isn't right is to STOP DOING THAT WRONG THING. Not to keep profiting off of it while lamenting your "fate". BROCK LESBIAN posted:"What those black people are doing looks like fun, we should join them and then kick them out." - A History of White Culture
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Jan 10, 2017 01:12
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Sound the alarm, hot take forge's down a man. Don't you know it's not safe to operate the machinery without a full complement of workers? Tangent to this, I'm curious about what people's opinion of the amen break is when it comes to cultural exchange and cultural appropriation given it's massive influence on not only hip hop but also all kinds of other forms of electronic music. Is it cultural exchange when it was used for both predominantly black and white forms of electronic music that evolved tangent to each other after samplers were invented, or would it be cultural appropriation? If you don't know what the amen break is this is a good primer
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Jan 10, 2017 01:15
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Hawkgirl posted:Are you in fact a musician or an artist? Your comment displays a whole lotta ignorance on how music and art works. Lemme tell you how the friggin traditional sing songs in my own country from literal unliterate peasant girls washing their dirty husband's clothes down in the river are obviously based in the islamic oriental scale and tradition. A little detail is that these girls are white as white can be. Are they culturally appropriating or exchanging?
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Jan 10, 2017 01:15
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R. Mute posted:I don't know if he's interested, but I'd like to learn in any case. I know both exist and have seen plenty of examples of both, but I find it difficult to see where the line is exactly. It is very much an issue of properly citing your sources as opposed to simply claiming their work for your your own. Appropriators plagiarize culture.
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Jan 10, 2017 01:15
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Brainiac Five posted:Everyone who knows a single thing about music, yes. But I am not confident that Fados does.
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Jan 10, 2017 01:18
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R. Mute posted:I don't know if he's interested, but I'd like to learn in any case. I know both exist and have seen plenty of examples of both, but I find it difficult to see where the line is exactly. I appreciate that. It's difficult to talk about, because too often people think they can avoid all criticism forever if they just create a comprehensive enough rubrik, and even more often bad-faith interlopers crash the conversation and pretend that the people discussing cultural appropriation are just trying to enforce an oppressive list of rules. If this conversation gets off the ground there will inevitably be at least one poster going "Should every musician that uses the 12 tone scale credit Schoenberg? big lol" or some similar bullshit. There are a depressing number of people who are outraged and horrified that anything they do might be criticized, or even just insufficiently praised. White people particularly expect applause any time they don the trappings of another culture, because being recognized by whiteness is supposed to be the ultimate blessing and mark of approval. Cue "It's a COMPLIMENT!" during the slapfight portion of this discussion. There will never be a complete list of what is and is not appropriation. There aren't even any foolproof rules of thumb. If you want to avoid cultural appropriation you're going to have to get into the habit of looking at things critically, examining context, considering the source, and listening to voices that differ from your own. Everybody doing that would solve most of racism anyway. I thin the most egregious examples of cultural appropriation in America happen to Native Americans (who frequently refer to themselves as "Indians" for reasons best explained by them, so if I use the terms interchangably that's why). These are people with cultures just as important to them as ours, languages just as expressive as ours, religions just as meaningful as ours, and yet their cultural expression has been not only derided but outrighed banned by law in many cases. Children in living memory were kidnapped and put into indian schools where speaking their own languages was punished by violence. So imagine someone growing up with that trauma walking into Forever 21 and seeing their religious symbols on bikini tops. Or going to a baseball game and seeing fat white guys in redface doing insulting impressions of their language and waving around cartoon versions of a sacred tool. People bulldozing over their family's ancestral homes and burial grounds while a dreamcatcher dangles from their rear-view window. And if they dare object: WHAT DO YOU MEAN I CAN'T DO WHATEVER I WANT IT'S A COMPLIMENT YOU SHOULD BE HONORED WHO ARE YOU TO TELL ME I CAN'T WEAR WHAT I WANT Tiny Brontosaurus fucked around with this message at 01:25 on Jan 10, 2017 |
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Jan 10, 2017 01:20
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A bit old, but.Crain posted:Another thing I noticed on that first face list is that the mongoloid and negroid (gross) faces are already represented in the other faces. Wide Cheekbones and Highback got those archtypes without the racist connotation. Yeah, I need to actually gather the research on it, but the history of cartooning is rife with ties to racism. Pretty much every old cartoon you can read will show minorities in stereotyped ways. Even artists who were black but passing like George Herriman engaged in it. You can even trace the design of old animated cartoon characters with their big gloves and thin black bodies to an updated version of minstrel show stereotypes. Just another example of how ingrained racism really was. We're not being at all hyperbolic when we say white supremacy is woven into the fabric of our country.
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Jan 10, 2017 01:21
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remusclaw posted:It is very much an issue of properly citing your sources as opposed to simply claiming their work for your your own. Appropriators plagiarize culture. Should every musician that uses the 12 tone scale credit Schoenberg? big lol
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Jan 10, 2017 01:21
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Fados posted:Lemme tell you how the friggin traditional sing songs in my own country from literal unliterate peasant girls washing their dirty husband's clothes down in the river are obviously based in the islamic oriental scale and tradition. A little detail is that these girls are white as white can be. Are they culturally appropriating or exchanging? See here we go already. Fados posted:Should every musician that uses the 12 tone scale credit Schoenberg? big lol Never fails. Wouldn't it be so much more efficient and a better use of your time for you to just go "no, I'm not hear to learn anything, I'm only here to fling poo poo?" Maybe then it would be at least a little harder for exmarxoteen to pretend this thread is "impossible" to moderate Tiny Brontosaurus fucked around with this message at 01:24 on Jan 10, 2017 |
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Jan 10, 2017 01:21
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I know Robert Johnson, but not Leadbelly. Looks like I have some learnin' to do. Also, anyone who says that rock and/or metal isn't based on jazz and the blues doesn't know poo poo about it. Damned near every rock bassist lists a handful of blues artists as influencing them. Even Geezer Butler has flat out said that some of black sabbaths earliest bass lines were a dozen basic blues riffs that fit the songs. And this is a guy that basicly influenced the entire genre. 
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Jan 10, 2017 01:25
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Fados posted:Lemme tell you how the friggin traditional sing songs in my own country from literal unliterate peasant girls washing their dirty husband's clothes down in the river are obviously based in the islamic oriental scale and tradition. A little detail is that these girls are white as white can be. Are they culturally appropriating or exchanging? Scales have more to do with the physics of sound frequencies in relation to adjacent sound frequencies and how the human brain interprets those relationships.
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Jan 10, 2017 01:25
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Gringostar posted:Scales have more to do with the physics of sound frequencies in relation to adjacent sound frequencies and how the human brain interprets those relationships. "You expect me to learn facts in a negro thread? big lol"
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Jan 10, 2017 01:27
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Cop Porn Popper posted:I know Robert Johnson, but not Leadbelly. Looks like I have some learnin' to do. Also, anyone who says that rock and/or metal isn't based on jazz and the blues doesn't know poo poo about it. Damned near every rock bassist lists a handful of blues artists as influencing them. Even Geezer Butler has flat out said that some of black sabbaths earliest bass lines were a dozen basic blues riffs that fit the songs. And this is a guy that basicly influenced the entire genre. blind willie johnson and a bunch of other guys should be on that same level of popularity, shame they arent https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNj2BXW852g thats the thing about vernacular music traditions, its always more rich than just the two or three people who end up getting remembered by history
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Jan 10, 2017 01:28
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Fados posted:Should every musician that uses the 12 tone scale credit Schoenberg? big lol If you are taking stuff from people and pretending it is your own work, you are in the wrong.
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Jan 10, 2017 01:29
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remusclaw posted:If you are taking stuff from people and pretending it is your own work, you are in the wrong. Would a "gently caress Eric Clapton" be appropriate here?
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Jan 10, 2017 01:31
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remusclaw posted:If you are taking stuff from people and pretending it is your own, you are in the wrong. I measure cultural appropriation by the reasonability factor and how we check college papers for plagiarism. If it's clearly ripped off from an easily findable source, I'm not believing any pleas of "nah I was just appreciating it!" Oh is that why you renamed it and pretended you invented it when asked? Basically it boils down to proper attribution.if your fans think you came up with it all on your own but the true creator can be found with minimal effort, you're wack as gently caress.
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Jan 10, 2017 01:31
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The way electronic music has ended up is incredibly similar to rock. Yes, hip hop lives and breathes on taking old soul and R&B, but so does any electronic popular artist. Most interesting recently to me was Frankie Sinatra by The Avalanches. The Avalanches are white guys from Australia, and the song heavily samples "Bobby Sox Idol" by Wilmoth Houdini, a black calypso singer. In particular, "Bobby Sox Idol" is Houdini criticizing... Frank Sinatra for appropriating calypso music. I really have to assume the parallel is too obvious for it not to be purposeful given that Danny Brown and MF Doom provide verses on it.
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Jan 10, 2017 01:32
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PantherWill posted:Would a "gently caress Eric Clapton" be appropriate here? There is no place where "gently caress Eric Clapton" isn't appropriate.
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Jan 10, 2017 01:33
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there are some pretty loving good appropriators. joe zawinul's tune mercy mercy mercy for cannonball adderly is an absolutely perfect piece of gospel jazz considering the guy was a white austrian. but of course its different when you're part of a group of black musicians and writing for them
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Jan 10, 2017 01:34
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Gringostar posted:Scales have more to do with the physics of sound frequencies in relation to adjacent sound frequencies and how the human brain interprets those relationships. what would you call the process through which the brain interprets these things when relating to art, maybe hummmmm, culture?
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Jan 10, 2017 01:36
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Zas posted:there are some pretty loving good appropriators. joe zawinul's tune mercy mercy mercy for cannonball adderly is an absolutely perfect piece of gospel jazz considering the guy was a white austrian. but of course its different when you're part of a group of black musicians and writing for them If he's working with then it's probably not appropriation. Let's not muddy the argument. Fados posted:what would you call the process through which the brain interprets these things when relating to art, maybe hummmmm, culture? Shut up you loving idiot. If you can't post in good faith you need to loving leave.
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Jan 10, 2017 01:38
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYuqnUs9gP8
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Jan 10, 2017 01:38
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Zas posted:there are some pretty loving good appropriators. joe zawinul's tune mercy mercy mercy for cannonball adderly is an absolutely perfect piece of gospel jazz considering the guy was a white austrian. but of course its different when you're part of a group of black musicians and writing for them of course, i agree with this, in art there is only good (original) cultural appropriation and bad (unoriginal) cultural appropriation. cultural 'exchange' sounds like the scholastic intellecutal product out of the mind of some anarco-capitalist chicago school boy subcontracted by the cia to do some cultural 'revolution' in some dictatorship in south america
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Jan 10, 2017 01:39
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