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Dancer posted:This is genuinely sheer curiosity, please don't think I'm hating on non-gamers, but did these people get the rules right? In my experience a full game of Hanabi should take less than 15 min, and it's not like you can lengthen this a lot by long deliberation, given the limited communication - and taking too long on each turn is actually likely to make the game harder since everyone will start forgetting valuable information. It was first time out, and they are all ESL. They were agonizing over literally every decision, and their "proper" game started with about 10 minutes left in the slot.
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Jan 11, 2017 04:17
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It's easy to take for granted just how much of a "gamer mindset" even a casual player has. Like, you know certain things are just obviously correct or not correct because you know how games work. People who have never really played (or learned) games before teaching themselves from possibly not technically immaculate rules would be a big learning experience in more ways than one.
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Jan 11, 2017 04:24
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Well I find it a bit validating that you guys are generally interested. I'll post updates as the experiment continues. e. one thing that will be interesting is attendance tomorrow. We'll know if people are hating it if they just bail and say "gently caress it" to the participation marks. I had a captive audience today, but the future isn't open information... CommonShore fucked around with this message at 04:30 on Jan 11, 2017 |
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Jan 11, 2017 04:27
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CommonShore posted:Well I find it a bit validating that you guys are generally interested. I'll post updates as the experiment continues. Technically it's open information  . You know exactly what decisions every player can take, and the moment they happen you know what they chose!(just screwin' with you man, keep doing Good Things)
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Jan 11, 2017 04:34
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CommonShore posted:It was first time out, and they are all ESL. They were agonizing over literally every decision, and their "proper" game started with about 10 minutes left in the slot. How did Codenames go with ESL people? One of the group of friends I game with has a lot of people who are migrants or tourists so I have been reluctant to bring it out. Doctor Spaceman fucked around with this message at 04:42 on Jan 11, 2017 |
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Jan 11, 2017 04:37
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Doctor Spaceman posted:how did Codenames go with ESL people? One of the group of friends I game with has a lot of people who are migrants or tourists so I have been reluctant to bring it out Only one ESL girl has tried codenames so far, and I couldn't take a close look at what they've been doing because that was the section in which I was filling out The Resistance. Tomorrow a few of them - who I know better from previous courses - will be giving it a try.
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Jan 11, 2017 04:41
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Really interesting project you're doing, CommonShore, so keep up the posting!
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Jan 11, 2017 04:48
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Dancer posted:This is genuinely sheer curiosity, please don't think I'm hating on non-gamers, but did these people get the rules right? In my experience a full game of Hanabi should take less than 15 min, and it's not like you can lengthen this a lot by long deliberation, given the limited communication - and taking too long on each turn is actually likely to make the game harder since everyone will start forgetting valuable information. Hanabi regularly takes my group 30+ minutes, largely because you have to analyze all the information against what you think other players think, without being able to ask them.
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Jan 11, 2017 04:50
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Doctor Spaceman posted:How did Codenames go with ESL people? One of the group of friends I game with has a lot of people who are migrants or tourists so I have been reluctant to bring it out. Depends. I play with a large mixed group, some not-so great english speakers who enjoy the game, but it made it really frustrating when we couldnt understand what the spymaster was saying at all, so I'm not sure if Codename Pictures would help either.
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Jan 11, 2017 04:52
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Dancer posted:This is genuinely sheer curiosity, please don't think I'm hating on non-gamers, but did these people get the rules right? In my experience a full game of Hanabi should take less than 15 min, and it's not like you can lengthen this a lot by long deliberation, given the limited communication - and taking too long on each turn is actually likely to make the game harder since everyone will start forgetting valuable information. I tried Hanabi for the first time yesterday with my mom, brother, and 8 year old son and let me tell you it took longer than 15 minutes. Everyone enjoyed it though. I also played Tales of the Arabian Nights for the first time tonight with my son and brother and had a blast. We cut the goals short because we didn't have hours to play, but my brother ended up winning after a pretty crazy adventure that saw him flung across the map a couple times, married, widowed, sex-changed, and finally going insane on the winning turn. My son had a much more tame experience but managed to complete two of his quests, and I spent the last three turns locked in jail (to be fair I was also an outlaw for a different reason in another city, so it was at least narratively appropriate). There's a couple things that bug me about status effects that seem really punitive and hard to remove (grief stricken in particular, but I also really disliked sex change preventing you from winning) but I figure if you're ever going to house rule a game it's probably this one. I'll definitely be pulling it out again. It hits totally different buttons most of the games I play, but that's not a bad thing at all.
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Jan 11, 2017 04:53
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Dancer posted:This is genuinely sheer curiosity, please don't think I'm hating on non-gamers, but did these people get the rules right? In my experience a full game of Hanabi should take less than 15 min, and it's not like you can lengthen this a lot by long deliberation, given the limited communication - and taking too long on each turn is actually likely to make the game harder since everyone will start forgetting valuable information. What happens is that people don't realize how safe discarding a card can be, and instead agonize over which card to discard. Also, you can't expect people with no experience with games to really grok that quicker decisions are easier.
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Jan 11, 2017 05:05
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Doctor Spaceman posted:How did Codenames go with ESL people? One of the group of friends I game with has a lot of people who are migrants or tourists so I have been reluctant to bring it out. I find it works fine in that situation as long as the teams are balanced. Tourist strangers vs best friends will be awful. Jordan7hm posted:I also played Tales of the Arabian Nights Yeah, sex-changed is just so hard to remove that we always house-rule it to not block winning. Agree on Hanabi taking a lot longer than 15 minutes - I'd estimate 35-50, assuming the 60-card deck? You have to make 48-52 play/discards and 20+ hints, many will be quick but 30s turns aren't unusual, with the occasional longer one. Writing this out it's interesting to compare to bridge, where a hand will have 52 cards played and a round of bidding, in 8 minutes. Bridge lets you do most of your thinking in a few spots though.
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Jan 11, 2017 05:11
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I was at the book store today and noticed they are selling some light board games now. I picked up Codenames (which looks very good!) and another game I had never heard about called Age of War. It had some cool custom samurai dice and was only $12 so I thought it would be worth it. I was right! I played a few games with my neighbor, and we both really enjoy it. I would characterize the game as a hybrid between Splendor and Zombie Dice. There is a bit of strategy in which castles to pick up, and what to steal, but there is also the push your luck element of zombie dice. You are collecting sets of victory card points, and trying to make combos of the same colour. You can steal castles taken by the opponent, unless the opponent has collected the entire colour set, in which case the castles are flipped over and "safe". Trying to lock up the colours is the meat of the strategy. Its not very complex, but it makes for some suspenseful dice rolling! The game is not pure luck, there is enough strategy to be interesting. It only takes about half the time to finish a game of Age of War as it does a game of Splendor, making it a superior filler/quick game IMHO. The box is also tiny and very cute. I rate Age of War 7.5/10 Game would be a lot more interesting if the castles gave you some kind of bonus/power. I might have to make up some home brew tiles, there are only 14 in the game.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVzUkzUEMkA Rutibex fucked around with this message at 05:45 on Jan 11, 2017 |
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Jan 11, 2017 05:39
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CommonShore posted:Also remember that people who post in this thread are atypical in their capacity to logic and strategy. Let's not get cocky here. We just have a general familiarity to some mechanics, and can apply what we know from some games to other ones (i.e. the power of trashing, economy of actions, building an engine). EDIT: Someone has already said most of it. EDIT EDIT: That said, I find the project very interesting, keep it up. Fat Samurai fucked around with this message at 13:21 on Jan 11, 2017 |
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Jan 11, 2017 13:17
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I would agree Rutibex is quite atypical in his capacity for logic.
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Jan 11, 2017 13:25
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My Gloomhaven hype is reaching critical levels now. The gushing tweets from the 3 reviewers (Man vs Meeple, Drive Thru Review and one I never heard of) isn't helping. Unfortunately, the game wont be in my hands until mid february at the earliest. Any goons here getting it earlier who can give first impressions?
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Jan 11, 2017 13:46
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CommonShore posted:Only one ESL girl has tried codenames so far, and I couldn't take a close look at what they've been doing because that was the section in which I was filling out The Resistance. Tomorrow a few of them - who I know better from previous courses - will be giving it a try. I got a strong vibe you were talking about ESL students, but you never said so... I played Codenames with a B1-ish class (some much weaker than that) with myself as the only spymaster because I thought it'd be too hard for them to give clues. It went over okay, but they didn't really get stuck into it.
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Jan 11, 2017 15:08
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Safety Biscuits posted:I got a strong vibe you were talking about ESL students, but you never said so... I played Codenames with a B1-ish class (some much weaker than that) with myself as the only spymaster because I thought it'd be too hard for them to give clues. It went over okay, but they didn't really get stuck into it. It's a mix - not an ESL program, but one that's popular among international students.
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Jan 11, 2017 15:41
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What are some good games with some nice slow engine building aspects to them? My GF and I love playing Viticulture but she feels it's too short and she doesn't get to make much wine which is what is fun for her. I pretty much tailor our board gaming to her tastes because I'll play just about anything. I've noticed she likes building things up over time and seeing the progress. I've thought maybe an 18XX game but i'm wondering if it may be too dry for her. I've looked at Through the Ages which might be interesting... Thanks in advance.
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Jan 11, 2017 16:08
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lordsummerisle posted:My Gloomhaven hype is reaching critical levels now. The gushing tweets from the 3 reviewers (Man vs Meeple, Drive Thru Review and one I never heard of) isn't helping. Canadians are supposed to be getting it towards the end of the month, I'll definitely do a trip report when I get it to the table. Huskalator posted:What are some good games with some nice slow engine building aspects to them? Terraforming Mars is the big new one, it's about 2 hours of pure engine building. I really like it, some people are less enamored due to luck of the draw with the cards but I don't think it's a big deal. La Granja is pretty good as well, it has some neat multi-use cards that allow you to build up your farm in a number of different ways including some crazy rule-breaking combos. You also unlock additional abilities over the course of the game. You start off very slow but within a few rounds you have a ton of options. If you want to go into the deep end, then Food Chain Magnate is maybe the ultimate option. It can be pretty cutthroat and hard to come back from being behind, but it plays surprisingly fast with 2 so it's not a huge deal and frankly there aren't many games I've played that I would put above this one. Lastly maybe check out Ora et Labora or Le Havre. They aren't exactly engine building as much as having an ever expanding tableu of options but they do give you a similar feel. EBag fucked around with this message at 16:27 on Jan 11, 2017 |
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Jan 11, 2017 16:18
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Huskalator posted:What are some good games with some nice slow engine building aspects to them? New TTA is a slow engine building game if ever there was one. Don't expect a relaxing experience however, especially 2p, it's more cutthroat than it looks on the surface. It's also long and fairly complex. But oh so good.
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Jan 11, 2017 16:29
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Huskalator posted:What are some good games with some nice slow engine building aspects to them? I would say that Ora et Labora and The Colonists should be appealling to her. You build up your home board and you do that for quite some time.
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Jan 11, 2017 16:30
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Huskalator posted:What are some good games with some nice slow engine building aspects to them? Most of Uwe's bigger games should be just what the doctor ordered.
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Jan 11, 2017 16:35
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Most engine builders tend to end as the players reach some kind of peak optimization, but Argent actually has a nice build to it, especially if you play with the extra Epic round, where everyone becomes Gandalf. I'd definitely second the new TTA and Food Chain Magnate -- they both have great online implementations if you'd like to try them first. Le Havre (or Feast for Odin) is a good option as well. Terraforming Mars actually feels like it has too long of a build for what it is, so that might be right up your alley (and I like the game, it just feels artificially long). A rail game might be worth a shot (some 18xx, or maybe even a Wallace like Steam/Brass). Or maybe some kind of tile/building placement thing where you get a nice sense of visual accomplishment like Tigris & Euphrates / Terra Mystica / Concordia / Keyflower / Castles of Burgundy (possibly even Carcassonne with the first couple of expansions). Well, maybe not Terra Mystica, which is super tight and always ends a turn earlier than you want it to. Scythe could be worth investigating, too. T-Bone fucked around with this message at 17:24 on Jan 11, 2017 |
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Jan 11, 2017 16:51
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Huskalator posted:What are some good games with some nice slow engine building aspects to them? She might enjoy Mage Knight, there is a very steady engine building progress to that game and it's fairly meaty. Others have suggested The Colonists, which might be right for her but I can't say for sure (having not played it myself yet!) I would also recommend Agricola, Race for the Galaxy, and any other deck builders like Dominion etc. Those all might be too short for her taste, but they are all great "engine builders".
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Jan 11, 2017 17:12
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I would argue Agricola is a terrible choice; you rarely get to run your food engine for more than a turn or two before the game ends! You're building up but most point generation and space filling happens in a rushed three or so rounds at the end! I do love the game, but if the goal is a slow build with getting to admire what you've built while you're building more, Agricola just doesn't seem to fit. Just saying, if I'm judging the requirements correctly.
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Jan 11, 2017 17:17
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silvergoose posted:I would argue Agricola is a terrible choice; you rarely get to run your food engine for more than a turn or two before the game ends! You're building up but most point generation and space filling happens in a rushed three or so rounds at the end! I do love the game, but if the goal is a slow build with getting to admire what you've built while you're building more, Agricola just doesn't seem to fit. If you play the solo campaign mode its a slow build up. You get to keep one profession card each round, so by the end you have a super refined engine of 7 permanent professions. Each round also has a much higher point requirement to advance, so you have to push for as much efficiency as possible. "Do I take this profession that will be good for the next 4 rounds, or take this other one that will help me a lot now?"
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Jan 11, 2017 17:36
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I'd wait for later in your gaming relationship to bring this one up, but The Colonists is everything she wants on steroids. Just... you know, wait until it's not 80 dollars and you're both ready for that kind of commitment to a heavy brain-burner. It can be a 4 hour game, but if length is what she wants, this is it. Also, check out First Class, a game about slowly building up a points-engine with trains.
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Jan 11, 2017 17:40
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Huskalator posted:What are some good games with some nice slow engine building aspects to them? If 2 player, check out Fields of Arle? I know little about it, except that it came through the door an hour ago, but people say it's great, and it's specifically made for 2. Weekly reminder that Caylus is Cool and Good, though it might disappoint her that all actions are publicly available - ownership of a building primarily only means you get a VP when someone else uses it. Edit: a more obscure one I just realized: Copycat by Friese. It's not as good as those 3 other games I mentioned, but to me it felt great on the one point you asked for. I felt really good with the engine I got going (which allowed me to score more points in the final round than any other player in the entire game . Multiplying multipliers is hella strong yo). I only ever got to play it once, because this was in the wimpy group and they found it too hard, but I've been wanting to play it again.
Dancer fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Jan 11, 2017 |
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Jan 11, 2017 17:47
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Rutibex posted:If you play the solo campaign mode its a slow build up. You get to keep one profession card each round, so by the end you have a super refined engine of 7 permanent professions. Each round also has a much higher point requirement to advance, so you have to push for as much efficiency as possible. "Do I take this profession that will be good for the next 4 rounds, or take this other one that will help me a lot now?" And given that the question was for two player games, this is not useful information.
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Jan 11, 2017 17:59
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Weekly (daily?) reminder that Rutibex should be banned and everything he posts is garbage that actively hurts the community and wastes people's money if they don't know his gimmick.
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Jan 11, 2017 18:10
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Any reviews on the Android app Steam:Rails to Riches? All I can gather is that it is a hexagon train game!
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Jan 11, 2017 18:26
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Dancer posted:Weekly reminder that Caylus is Cool and Good, though it might disappoint her that all actions are publicly available - ownership of a building primarily only means you get a VP when someone else uses it. That's the best reason to play Caylus. You're not trying to make the buildings you want, you're trying to make the buildings the other player wants. Vinhos is a longer game about winemaking that has a lot of winemaking in it, if that's a desired theme.
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Jan 11, 2017 18:33
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Trip report. Splendor group was having a great time now that they know how it works, but they didn't finish a 4p game in the slot (one player was one turn from winning.) The students were asking me where to buy it. Coup is proving very useful for this documentation exercise - it has a glossary, keywords, and a lot of side rules. Codenames is going well. I had one high-level ESL player who did very well and another heavy-dialect native speaker who was also good. I screwed up and didn't get my coterie of Indian students into the game today - I'll try to make it happen tomorrow. Sushi Go is pleasing people but they're starting to get tired of it already. It's not engaging enough for adults to play for an hour once they get how it works. The second hour has been pushing it.
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Jan 11, 2017 18:34
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Bottom Liner posted:Weekly (daily?) reminder that Rutibex should be banned and everything he posts is garbage that actively hurts the community and wastes people's money if they don't know his gimmick. It's Not like you fuckin nerds would habe any trouble Wasting money without runitex' trolling. discount cathouse fucked around with this message at 18:42 on Jan 11, 2017 |
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Jan 11, 2017 18:40
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Fat Turkey posted:Any reviews on the Android app Steam:Rails to Riches? All I can gather is that it is a hexagon train game! I have $40 in Google Play credit from taking surveys and nothing to spend it on, so here goes nothing!
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Jan 11, 2017 18:44
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discount cathouse posted:It's Not like you fuckin nerds would habe any trouble Wasting money without runitex' trolling. There's a big difference in buying a bunch of wargames and 18xx's that will never get played and recommending awful options for people that are new to the hobby and sabotaging their efforts.
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Jan 11, 2017 18:46
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Oh another thing I realized this last hour - The thread often wonders why Splendor goes over so well with non-gamers. The art and components are often posited as the main reason. I propose that it's because once a player figures it out, Splendor has an elegant simplicity to it and a also non-random (non-dice at least) strategic space. People who are accustomed to board games like Risk and Monopoly think of "board games" as having sprawling rules with tons of inconsistencies and exceptions, and decision subject to the mercy of dice. Whatever you can say about Splendor being too light, it has really an elegant rules design. (e. even if communicated in flawed documentation)
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Jan 11, 2017 18:47
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CommonShore posted:Oh another thing I realized this last hour - I don't wonder, I've been solidly on the "I like the game and like teaching it" camp here.
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Jan 11, 2017 19:01
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My gaming group has a giant backlog of cool games from xmas, looking forward to digging in to Blood Rage, Millenium Blades, Forbidden Stars, Hyperborea, Inis, Forge War, and Tiny Epic Western. I'm incredibly hype, but don't want to comment on them until I've had a chance to play a few full games. There are a couple of lighter games that I have gotten to the table though: The Bloody Inn: I feel like this game has a lot of potential in there somewhere, but it doesn't come out in play. The core of the game is acquiring a hand of cards, each card is an accomplice and you'll have to pay $1 for each accomplice you have every turn. Every action requires a certain number of accomplices, those accomplices are discarded unless you're using them for the one action type that they are good at. This is a really interesting mechanic, but the game suffers from two major flaws. First, it takes a lot of actions to accomplish anything, and you just don't get many of them. A parade of guests, potential accomplices or victims, will march in and out of the Inn, but you just don't have enough actions to actually capitalize on interesting options that might come up, your hands will often be tied by the plans you've set in motion on previous turns. Second, the balance between cards can be bizarre, with some options paying out $30 and others paying out $3, with little difference in investment. Overall I didn't hate it, and I think there's some really good ideas, but I wouldn't recommend it. Ice Cool: I haven't seen it talked about at all in this thread, but Ice Cool is pretty radical. It's a dexterity game where you flick anime penguin weeble-wobbles around multiple-room cardboard high-school. Weeble-wobbles make great things to flick, you can get them to jump up and over walls by flicking them in the head and cause them to curve with spins. This is challenging to do reliably, but most players start experimenting with these techniques in their very first game. The game is all about flicking your penguin through doorways, which is great both because it requires an accurate flick and because it means you can easily put a wall between you and the penguin trying to smash into you (of course they can still try to hit you with a curve or jump). It's light, silly, and quick but definitely check it out if you get the chance. Patchwork: I hadn't picked this one up because I had so many other two player games that I already enjoyed. Recommendations for this one are all over, so I don't need to beat that drum much, but its an easy to teach and solid little game.
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Jan 11, 2017 19:04
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