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Craptacular! posted:I'm getting this slow realization that maybe Pharah is this awkward fulcrum around which the whole meta rests. Her existence seems to demand that one of 76/McCree be very strong at all times, or at least some hitscan hero but usually one of those two. I'd say removing her would cause more problems than it would solve.
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Jan 12, 2017 10:05
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| # ? May 18, 2024 19:49 |
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Hey so in case anybody is still up in arms about the Roadhog hook change in PTR, the update that's tuning it up dropped recently and his hook is working pretty much as intended now. It hooks people without randomly breaking (including when they're halfway behind a wall) but it also breaks when it somehow lands and the enemy is completely behind an obstacle.
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Jan 12, 2017 10:23
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Craptacular! posted:I'm getting this slow realization that maybe Pharah is this awkward fulcrum around which the whole meta rests. Her existence seems to demand that one of 76/McCree be very strong at all times, or at least some hitscan hero but usually one of those two. If Pharah was really a dominant character and neither Soldier or McCree were any good then what would happen is you would see an uptick in Widowmaker usage. More Zenyatta too, it wasn't just McCree getting his single-shot falloff reduced that put a crimp in her style, it was that plus orb of discord. I don't really think she's the lynchpin of anything tbh.
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Jan 12, 2017 10:39
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Craptacular! posted:I'm getting this slow realization that maybe Pharah is this awkward fulcrum around which the whole meta rests. Her existence seems to demand that one of 76/McCree be very strong at all times, or at least some hitscan hero but usually one of those two. I hate Pharah because last night I was a couple of matches away from hitting masters, then I started running into teams who had pharah. We were running McCree and Soldier to counter her in the end over multiple matches, it was always me that had to pull her down to earth and kill her, not the loving hitscan. Goddamn dogstile fucked around with this message at 11:42 on Jan 12, 2017 |
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Jan 12, 2017 10:39
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pharah's just ok right now. if the tanks and ana stop being what the game revolves around post ptr, pharah is gonna get dumpster'd hard yet again thanks to zenyatta and hitscan seriously, if a pharah is bothering you then just get a zen+mccree/soldier and you will shut her down insanely hard. discord is a nightmare for pharah
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Jan 12, 2017 10:44
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I mean the trick is that the hitscan's gotta be good at hitting what they aim at, is the thing. Just having Soldier and McCree on your team won't inherently shut Pharah down if they can't actually hit her.
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Jan 12, 2017 10:54
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I wouldn't even call Soldier a massive counter to Pharah anymore if only because his spread is so huge now. I can be perfectly tracking a Pharah but often she's too far away that the spread just hits about one out of five shots. Even if Soldier resurfaces, Pharah might be able to have a strong presence, which we'll quickly see disappears because McCree still deletes her.
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Jan 12, 2017 10:58
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Kai Tave posted:I mean the trick is that the hitscan's gotta be good at hitting what they aim at, is the thing. Just having Soldier and McCree on your team won't inherently shut Pharah down if they can't actually hit her. This is why I play zenyatta so often. I might not be able to hit with 9 balls out of ten but that tenth one is the discord orb so
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Jan 12, 2017 10:59
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Theta Zero posted:I wouldn't even call Soldier a massive counter to Pharah anymore if only because his spread is so huge now. I can be perfectly tracking a Pharah but often she's too far away that the spread just hits about one out of five shots. Even if Soldier resurfaces, Pharah might be able to have a strong presence, which we'll quickly see disappears because McCree still deletes her. Soldier on his own is hard pressed to gun down Pharah outright, it's not even just the spread (which you can still mitigate to an extent) but the falloff as well, even with his damage buffed the general range that Soldier is going to be shooting Pharah at means that he can put pressure on her but usually can't outright kill her before she's able to touch down behind cover, and that's if she isn't getting healed in the process. McCree is, if you can aim, more reliable against Pharah because of his higher burst damage. And yeah, Zenyatta is absolutely a good choice to have as well. Simply having discord on her makes a lot of Pharahs dive for cover to try and shake it off.
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Jan 12, 2017 11:20
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Oh I get how to counter her, its just annoying to see people who main her counters consistently gently caress it up, then I swap with them and down her pretty quickly. I just want people to do their drat jobs! *angrily shakes fist*
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Jan 12, 2017 11:44
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dogstile posted:Oh I get how to counter her, its just annoying to see people who main her counters consistently gently caress it up, then I swap with them and down her pretty quickly. I just want people to do their drat jobs! *angrily shakes fist* Yup. Soldier's probably the easiest hero in the game to master if you've ever played an FPS before, but man is it obvious when someone playing him doesn't know how to prioritise targets well.
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Jan 12, 2017 13:21
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Theta Zero posted:I wouldn't even call Soldier a massive counter to Pharah anymore if only because his spread is so huge now. I can be perfectly tracking a Pharah but often she's too far away that the spread just hits about one out of five shots. Even if Soldier resurfaces, Pharah might be able to have a strong presence, which we'll quickly see disappears because McCree still deletes her. Doesn't McCree have the problem of actually trying to close in on her? He can't snipe her in the air because of falloff. If he can actually close in or predict where she's gonna land, sure, but I wouldn't think he'd be the first pick if she's constantly harassing your team from the air.
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Jan 12, 2017 13:41
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Kai Tave posted:Soldier on his own is hard pressed to gun down Pharah outright, it's not even just the spread (which you can still mitigate to an extent) but the falloff as well, even with his damage buffed the general range that Soldier is going to be shooting Pharah at means that he can put pressure on her but usually can't outright kill her before she's able to touch down behind cover, and that's if she isn't getting healed in the process. McCree is, if you can aim, more reliable against Pharah because of his higher burst damage. I disagree, of all the guns with damage falloff, Soldier's is the best since it doesn't start until 30m. He can heal, too, putting him out of range of getting 2-shotted with at least one direct hit or 3-shotted with all splash hits. His ult suppresses you longer and kills you faster. McCree has burst but is also relatively a sitting duck and easier to fire at from range, and once you get outside of his falloff start range of 22m he can't 2-3shot you anymore, so his time to kill is about the same as Soldier's. They're at least equally bad for Pharah to encounter. In practice, if you are having trouble killing her as Soldier you probably won't do any better as McCree, and I hate running into Soldier more. 3-4 tanks are what I hate running into most. Roadhog can 1-shot me from 20m with hook, Reinhardt and Dva can block my stuff, and I can't solo kill any of them if they have a competent healer, who can hide behind them so I can't kill them either. Also multi-tank comp is run with Pharah's actual bane: Ana. She who can put herself out of range of being 2-3 shotted and can 3 shot me like McCree but from infinite range and with a scope. She's worse than Widowmaker because of that self-heal.
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Jan 12, 2017 14:25
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People keep talking about Pharah as if she's a slow character when she actually has the same speed as everyone else and three powerful movement abilities. There's nothing about her that requires you to hover miles out of cover like an idiot.
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Jan 12, 2017 14:42
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As someone who plays a ton of Pharah, I like my chances vs. any other Pharah at my ELO. Pharah v. Pharah dog fights are definitely a highlight of this game for me, and MLG moments are born from blasting her pet Mercy away before melee'ing the other Pharah out of the sky! 2nd favorite style of frag is finding anyone else on my team in a 1v1 as Lucio and casually boomping their opponent off the map. gently caress your epic genji v. Soldier duel, we gotta payload to move dude!
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Jan 12, 2017 15:10
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I live for Pharah dog fights. Just purely for the fact it's the closest thing I'll get to spinfusor battles in this day and age.
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Jan 12, 2017 15:46
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Hidingo Kojimba posted:Yup. Soldier's probably the easiest hero in the game to master if you've ever played an FPS before, but man is it obvious when someone playing him doesn't know how to prioritise targets well. I have this issue and I don't know why. I play tracer a lot and enjoy her, as well as managing to have good target selection and regularly win games with her. I'm decent as soldier but just..god drat I am not good at target selection with him and I don't get it.
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Jan 12, 2017 15:57
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it's Elo not ELO i shall be pedantic about this until death
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Jan 12, 2017 15:58
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Kashuno posted:I have this issue and I don't know why. I play tracer a lot and enjoy her, as well as managing to have good target selection and regularly win games with her. I'm decent as soldier but just..god drat I am not good at target selection with him and I don't get it. Shoot Rein's shield 24/7 to buff your accuracy stats and ensure you receive a gold damage medal.
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Jan 12, 2017 16:03
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Oh sorry I was reading a reminder to myself. I meant focus on the healers if they're within reasonable range and accessible, otherwise start chunking damage into Roadhogs/Winstons/D.vas until enemy DPS players threaten your backline, then Helix their faces. It's a little different from McCree if you play/played him, because he is mostly good for eliminating squishies who step out of position, whereas Soldier is basically a constant stream of damage that should always be hitting "something".
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Jan 12, 2017 16:10
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Jeza posted:Shoot Rein's shield 24/7 to buff your accuracy stats and ensure you receive a gold damage medal. Or to break his shield or force him to drop it, which gives your team a chance to pick or advance...
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Jan 12, 2017 16:15
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Dietrich posted:Or to break his shield or force him to drop it, which gives your team a chance to pick or advance... I'm afraid that's of secondary importance to my gold medal, but whatever floats your boat
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Jan 12, 2017 16:17
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Soldiers who go "i have gold damage" and haven't done anything except break the shield all game make me laugh because every soldier i've encountered in the past week who has bragged about it can't hit a stationary target at midrange.
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Jan 12, 2017 16:19
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I'm pretty sure damage done to reinhardt's shield doesn't count for your damage done score.
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Jan 12, 2017 16:30
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It definitely does, so now you know that when that hanzo on your team cards for damage but didn't kill anyone ever you know what he was shooting at the whole match
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Jan 12, 2017 16:33
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it does. also mei walls, zarya bubbles, anything that has an hp bar seen or unseen
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Jan 12, 2017 16:35
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The junkers are the only characters I feel useful shooting the shield with, since they can pressure it alone.
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Jan 12, 2017 16:36
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Roadhog shreds it really quick too, its half the reason pro teams pick him.
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Jan 12, 2017 16:43
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ApplesandOranges posted:Doesn't McCree have the problem of actually trying to close in on her? He can't snipe her in the air because of falloff. If he can actually close in or predict where she's gonna land, sure, but I wouldn't think he'd be the first pick if she's constantly harassing your team from the air. Ya I don't get how McCree is a counter to Pharah unless he has his ult. His whole kit is based on close quarter duels and that's the one thing Pharah never does. She always stays at medium range in the open.
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Jan 12, 2017 17:48
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He shoots her in the head while she slowly glides with his gun that has no spread.
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Jan 12, 2017 17:53
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Ulio posted:Ya I don't get how McCree is a counter to Pharah unless he has his ult. His whole kit is based on close quarter duels and that's the one thing Pharah never does. She always stays at medium range in the open. he clicks her on the head
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Jan 12, 2017 18:04
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dogstile posted:Soldiers who go "i have gold damage" and haven't done anything except break the shield all game make me laugh because every soldier i've encountered in the past week who has bragged about it can't hit a stationary target at midrange. These are the people who would be playing Bastion if people wouldn't yell at them so much (and would probably do better with Bastion)
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Jan 12, 2017 18:22
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SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:The junkers are the only characters I feel useful shooting the shield with, since they can pressure it alone. The only time you shouldn't be shooting the shield is if there is a target that the shield is not protecting. Shoot the loving shield with everyone.
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Jan 12, 2017 18:33
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Dietrich posted:The only time you shouldn't be shooting the shield is if there is a target that the shield is not protecting. Shoot the loving shield with everyone. Don't get me wrong. I shoot it. But I always seem to get the team that doesn't focus the shield down. Plinking away alone as soldier or most people is aggrivating
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Jan 12, 2017 18:53
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Had a weird night of playing comp (high gold, just hit plat after my last game) and I didn't have a single Rein my team in any of the games I played. We managed to win a game with 1 healer and 1 tank, lots of bizarre games that I thought we would lose just based on our initial comps. I got grouped with a 3 stack that included a master player that was either Solider or Widow, and he kept yelling at me for not healing him good as Zen (other healer was Lucio). I felt bad and worked as hard as I could at keeping him alive because he was legitimately very very good and the enemy team ended up switching to Winston and Genji and Tracer in a desperate attempt at killing him. He did a good job of leading us and making sure we all stopped and regrouped and was directing people around when to back out of points and when to ult and stuff and every single time it worked to perfection just listening to him. Felt like I was letting him down because I am not good, and most of the time he was behind me so I couldn't see when he needed heals and wouldn't say anything until he was dead. I think I learned alot in the 2 games I ended up matching with his group (Gibraltar and Ilios). I also played a game of quickplay where some idiot was talking poo poo about having a "level 2" on his team. He was level 66. This guy legitimately didn't understand that the guy was level 2 with 2 stars which means 202. Everyone made fun of him for it and he tried to play it off as a joke. He then went off saying he had gold damage as soldier. 
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Jan 12, 2017 19:37
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Kashuno posted:He shoots her in the head while she slowly glides with his gun that has no spread. Long range hitscan is borderline mandatory to beat Pharah but she's not an easy target to hit if played well. Irony Be My Shield fucked around with this message at 19:42 on Jan 12, 2017 |
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Jan 12, 2017 19:39
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Irony Be My Shield posted:See again this is an attitude I don't get. Nothing about Pharah forces you to float around slowly out in the open. You can pop out from cover and use one of her two powerful escape abilities or just drop back down if you start taking flak. Sure, but if the Pharah is playing well then its a good bet that the McCree might also be playing well. Meaning that he doesn't need her to be moving slowly to plink her head a couple times. If she keeps needing to not be in the sky cuz she's getting plinked then she's not being effective.
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Jan 12, 2017 19:47
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Irony Be My Shield posted:See again this is an attitude I don't get. Nothing about Pharah forces you to float around slowly out in the open. You can pop out from cover and use one of her two powerful escape abilities or just drop back down if you start taking flak. Yeah which is all cool and good except now you're not supplying hitscan damage reliably and probably charging up the Zarya while letting the enemy healers get free charge because pop n'squat pharah isn't a really good method in 3000+ games.
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Jan 12, 2017 19:49
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Irony Be My Shield posted:See again this is an attitude I don't get. Nothing about Pharah forces you to float around slowly out in the open. You can pop out from cover and use one of her two powerful escape abilities or just drop back down if you start taking flak. cool so pharah is on the ground where he can flashbang her neat.
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Jan 12, 2017 20:35
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Ana's a good Pharah counter and she's on every team.
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Jan 12, 2017 20:51
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