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Archonex posted:So what? They're basically void related monsters? They're posessed by the primordial fear of events, earthquakes, volcanoes, floods, tornadoes, or THE UNENDING VOID OF SPACE. They're called "Moments".
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Jan 12, 2017 16:36
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Night10194 posted:I'm failing to see how people eat the eggs. Step 1: Smash Mouth
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Jan 12, 2017 16:37
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Night10194 posted:I've said it before, but in addition to being utterly disgusting, Beast is basically like watching someone fall off the wagon and go full 90s WW again.
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Jan 12, 2017 16:38
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Kurieg posted:They're posessed by the primordial fear of events, earthquakes, volcanoes, floods, tornadoes, or THE UNENDING VOID OF SPACE. But there are "fear of the sky" and "fear of the water" beasts, aren't there?
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Jan 12, 2017 16:38
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No see then you were actually scared of the things that lived in the sky/water.
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Jan 12, 2017 16:40
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Kurieg posted:They're posessed by the primordial fear of events, earthquakes, volcanoes, floods, tornadoes, or THE UNENDING VOID OF SPACE. This really doesn't seem to fit anywhere else into the setting. Like, most of this stuff seems to be coming out of left field when compared to previous canon. Shame too. I was hoping they'd actually clean the thing up after people kept pointing out how awful it was. Also, like, what the gently caress is the point of some of these monsters? How would you even use "monster that sunk the titanic and is impervious to just about anything short of an airstrike" in a story that wasn't going full gonzo in the vein of Exalted? It just doesn't fit. And that's before you get into the probability that a monster that sunk the titanic is probably not going to be anywhere humans are to even interact with in the first place. What the gently caress would the PC's even be doing to encounter this thing? The egg dude is similarly confusing. I mean, at least I can see how it could be put into a story since it can actually interact with people in an antagonistic way. But...Just...What? Do the eggs kill people or something? Where's the threat outside of the whole body invasion thing and horrifying 4chan tier fetishes being inflicted on the setting? Did I miss that in my read through?
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Jan 12, 2017 16:42
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Because making GBS threads eggs out your dick is so horrifying you'll mutilate your genitals and rear end and then die. Also yes, none of this makes any sense in the world as given, hell half of the Heroes are literally impossible given the stated assumptions out of the world. And one of the example beasts underewent the merger when his Horror went "gently caress this poo poo" and just took over his body WHICH ISN'T HOW THE MERGER WORKS.
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Jan 12, 2017 16:47
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Archonex posted:So what? They're basically void related monsters? That... Would actually be pretty great, to be honest. Mythology is littered with monsters torn from the dustbins of the gods; creatures made by curses, vile sorceries, or because Typhon and Echidna did the horizontal Monster Mash. In 2e, your only recourse was to model them using the RoGD books or learn professional game design. In 3e, you have even less. Plus, the gods being dicks in ways other than slacking off on their office jobs would be nice and in keeping with the heroic epics that inspired it, especially for reinforcing the themes of Weird Morality the setting has. Remember the origin story if Medusa where she was Athena's priestess?
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Jan 12, 2017 17:07
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I would really love to hear a frank explanation from Matt McFarland about what exactly the hell he's trying to accomplish with Beast, why he is apparently so emotionally attached to it, and how other people looked at this and were like, "sure, let's publish this."
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Jan 12, 2017 17:37
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Well now that we've all got a deep and disturbing look at MacFarland's dick making GBS threads egg fetish i'm probably never going to interact with Beasts in any meaningful capacity except to laugh at it on the internet. FakeEdit: Then again maybe i could get some mileage out of an archmaster game where you have to convince the other participants of the Pax Arcana that Beasts don't deserve to exist and you erase them from existence and then flip off the Dark Mother while she dissolves into nonexistence.
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Jan 12, 2017 18:15
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That's funny to think about but "heh, guys, my campaign is about throwing shade at this other RPG I don't like" sounds like it'd be incredibly boring and weird as a player. "Don't touch the poop" is good advice, here.
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Jan 12, 2017 18:19
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I just find it funny that they basically ripped off disquiet from Promethean and went "no see WE can do it better"
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Jan 12, 2017 18:27
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Does anyone have a word for that part of you that knows something is bad but you can see why some bits of it are fun, so you keep coming back to it and trying to salvage it, but you only end up frustrated when you come to the same glaring conclusion again and again that the concept is unsalvageable?
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Jan 12, 2017 18:29
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Axelgear posted:Does anyone have a word for that part of you that knows something is bad but you can see why some bits of it are fun, so you keep coming back to it and trying to salvage it, but you only end up frustrated when you come to the same glaring conclusion again and again that the concept is unsalvageable? LARP
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Jan 12, 2017 18:29
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Enola Gay-For-Pay posted:I would really love to hear a frank explanation from Matt McFarland about what exactly the hell he's trying to accomplish with Beast, why he is apparently so emotionally attached to it, and how other people looked at this and were like, "sure, let's publish this." I mean, I know they have Kickstarter commitments, but you think after the uproar someone might mildly want to keep him in check. I guess between this and the stuff going on with Paradox's plans, White Wolf never changes in the long run.
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Jan 12, 2017 18:32
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Any updates on the 21st century LARP plans?
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Jan 12, 2017 18:33
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:That's funny to think about but "heh, guys, my campaign is about throwing shade at this other RPG I don't like" sounds like it'd be incredibly boring and weird as a player. Yeah you're right, still a funny idea to think about though. I'm actually kind of hype for the historical setting now because I can't see any scenario where they don't horribly mishandle the reconstruction era and create one of the most offensively tone deaf books in WW's history and I want to read the internet's meltdown.
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Jan 12, 2017 18:41
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Axelgear posted:Also, no armour is perfect; you always take at least one bashing level from any hit that does lethal damage. Unless you're a Vampire, Werewolf or Mage with mage armour on. I haven't read Promethean or Beast but I assume they also do not take the 1B after soak. Basically only baseline humans can slowly be whittled down, in stark defiance of good game design imo.
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Jan 12, 2017 18:43
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What the gently caress is Matt's obsession with making internet slapfights a crucial component of a game-line about mythical monsters? Why would anyone want to drop 15 bucks to further enhance the epic struggle between the evil Hero AdolfPepeler1488 and a brave Beast who draws Steven Universe fan-art? It's so loving petty.
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Jan 12, 2017 19:32
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What on earth is this BvD that keeps being referenced? Or am I just better off not knowing anything about it?
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Jan 12, 2017 19:52
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citybeatnik posted:What on earth is this BvD that keeps being referenced? Or am I just better off not knowing anything about it? (Vampire) Baby vs Dog
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Jan 12, 2017 19:57
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Commissar Budgie posted:(Vampire) Baby vs Dog The dog was ghouled iirc. Just a little B vs D.
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Jan 12, 2017 19:59
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:That's funny to think about but "heh, guys, my campaign is about throwing shade at this other RPG I don't like" sounds like it'd be incredibly boring and weird as a player. SunAndSpring posted:What the gently caress is Matt's obsession with making internet slapfights a crucial component of a game-line about mythical monsters? Why would anyone want to drop 15 bucks to further enhance the epic struggle between the evil Hero AdolfPepeler1488 and a brave Beast who draws Steven Universe fan-art? It's so loving petty.  citybeatnik posted:What on earth is this BvD that keeps being referenced? Or am I just better off not knowing anything about it?
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Jan 12, 2017 20:00
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WINNERSH TRIANGLE posted:The dog was ghouled iirc. Just a little B vs D. Silly me!
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Jan 12, 2017 20:02
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I'll cop to caviar dude as being p effective body horror but why is he called The Blind Man if he's not blind. Did MM just want to make a character with a cane? Does he act like he's blind?
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Jan 12, 2017 20:06
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Basic Chunnel posted:I'll cop to caviar dude as being p effective body horror Here's the thing: I feel like that might turn the majority of women off my Johnson, but it's going to really interest the ones that are leftover. So that's like, bottom of the scale of penis inflicted horror. Now if he could make people have spider eggs inside their penis and then they hatch and thousands of spiders crawl out of you, that would be a bit more disheartening.
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Jan 12, 2017 20:10
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Basic Chunnel posted:I'll cop to caviar dude as being p effective body horror but why is he called The Blind Man if he's not blind. Did MM just want to make a character with a cane? Does he act like he's blind? Should be noted that writers usually create specific elements, developers only outline, though the ratio of outline detail to writer inventiveness depends on the developer and the writer (ex: A rookie might be given specific instructions, while I often get "do whatever"). In this case, the developer was Danielle Lauzon, who I've enjoyed working with. I don't have the book and am not part of Beast goings-on generally so can't speak to its content, but the process at OPP is usually a pretty collaborative one.
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Jan 12, 2017 20:43
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Mulva posted:Here's the thing: I feel like that might turn the majority of women off my Johnson, but it's going to really interest the ones that are leftover. So that's like, bottom of the scale of penis inflicted horror. Now if he could make people have spider eggs inside their penis and then they hatch and thousands of spiders crawl out of you, that would be a bit more disheartening. This is pretty much the moment where I realize just how hosed up the internet has made us.
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Jan 12, 2017 20:47
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MalcolmSheppard posted:Should be noted that writers usually create specific elements, developers only outline, though the ratio of outline detail to writer inventiveness depends on the developer and the writer (ex: A rookie might be given specific instructions, while I often get "do whatever"). In this case, the developer was Danielle Lauzon, who I've enjoyed working with. I don't have the book and am not part of Beast goings-on generally so can't speak to its content, but the process at OPP is usually a pretty collaborative one.
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Jan 12, 2017 20:48
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Axelgear posted:This is pretty much the moment where I realize just how hosed up the internet has made us. I think you'll find that penis spiders are a universal human fear across time.
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Jan 12, 2017 20:52
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The really sad part is that time and resources are being spent developing and writing this Beast stuff instead of books for game lines that are both well received, sought after, and (I would suspect) more profitable.
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Jan 12, 2017 21:02
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Beast might be profitable. Sad as that might be. People still like oWoD, after all.
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Jan 12, 2017 21:09
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Jhet posted:The really sad part is that time and resources are being spent developing and writing this Beast stuff instead of books for game lines that are both well received, sought after, and (I would suspect) more profitable. The thing that bugs me is that there is something desirable here. Not in what Beast is, but in what it could be. I look at the Horror system in CofD and think, yeah, this is decent, but it has problems. Dread Powers are... Diverse and generic. Deliberately so. This isn't a bad thing, per se; broad and generic means you can theoretically make anything out of it. At the same time, that lack of focus makes Dread Powers less valuable, because it makes them too generic. Rather than have a theme which can be built off of, you expect one power to cover a very broad range of archetypes. Consider, for example, the Blast Numen for spirits. This power is meant to represent fire breath, hurling lightning, sonic shrieks, a frigid wind, an entropic rot, and so on. Every theoretical ranged attack is covered under this. Because of that, there's no... Specialization. If someone sat down and thought "Hey, let's have fun making rot spirits" and made a ton of powers which tied into and built on one another, we'd have not only better feeling in rot spirits but also more diversity in them instead of each having the same root powers. Likewise, building these creatures with XP gives you a sense of what it might be to compare such things to players. It lets you know what's too much and what's too little, at least in theory. Does that make sense at all? Or am I just asking too much for someone to hold my hand?
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Jan 12, 2017 21:13
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Honestly, dickeggs guy is gross and weird and shouldn't be in there, and the world's sexiest snake is silly, but the two different women whose sole purpose is online harassment of the PCs are worse. One of them is a Hot Youtube Girl who doxxes and directs hate groups at Beasts, and the other is an Ugly Hacker Geek Girl who swats people for fun to eat their fear. Both of these characters are terrible, insulting and barely usable in a game.
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Jan 12, 2017 21:25
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I dunno why everyone's freaking out about the body horror guy in a horror game, but Beast's weird focus on the internet is pretty funny.
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Jan 12, 2017 21:28
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Honestly i'm confused as why OPP has a bug up its butt about online harassment here. This came up in Hurt Locker too. Don't get me wrong online harassment is awful and terrible, but why do you think it fits into an RPG? If i'm gonna do something internet related it'll be about cool hacker shenanigans not about getting in twitter fights and doxxing people. I just don't see why they think this is something enough people would actually want to include in their games thats its worth actively publishing antagonists for it.
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Jan 12, 2017 21:30
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Ferrinus posted:I dunno why everyone's freaking out about the body horror guy in a horror game Fainting couches are very in right now.
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Jan 12, 2017 21:37
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Axelgear posted:The thing that bugs me is that there is something desirable here. Not in what Beast is, but in what it could be. I agree about the Numen, they're a bit standard, but that's not that big of a deal for me. That's the toolbox and I can inject my own tweaks for each spirit/ghost/goetia as I go. The problem is there's not a great amount of breadth of it, but it comes down to page count. If there's not room, there's just not room. I would love to have seen instead of this Monsters of Beast book is a book dealing with actually building monsters in the CofD. A place to go to start building monsters for any and every game line never happened in nWoD, and I really doubt it'll happen here. I'll get to page through 6 different books to find things again. Even the monster books didn't do a great job of it. There were many new creatures and monsters, but there were no building blocks all put together in one place. So I'm stuck using either Numen or Spells again. It's not the end of the world, but I think it's a missed opportunity. I've never much cared for building antagonists with XP either. It can be difficult to find the sweet spot for them with XP, where for me it's much easier to just grab a handful of powers (let's be honest, it's only going to be alive/fighting for a short time), but I need variety. It's a big world, and I'm trying to reflect that broadness at the table. This could all be moot and we might actually be getting a toolbox for antagonists somewhere, but there's zero chance of me buying that Beast book because of just how terrible the theme of that line is. I'll wait to see what they're cooking up for the other lines. So I think we're near the same place with what we're looking for out of these books, but I'm very disappointed in that we get nearest to it so far with Beast. Back to page count problems... One of my biggest pet peeves with Mage 2E is that there's only a single Legacy. They reworked legacies into something great, but there just wasn't space to give them enough examples for players (especially new players) to really get a grasp on it. That's one of the major questions that my new group has, is "what do we do about legacies?" This means we're going to spend a lot of time building legacies instead of playing them. I know there are more coming, but it makes me sad to see that the Core went from 5 to 1.
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Jan 12, 2017 21:55
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Ferrinus posted:I dunno why everyone's freaking out about the body horror guy in a horror game, but Beast's weird focus on the internet is pretty funny. Because this isn't good, interesting, or even particularly gameable body horror, and is really obviously somebody's weird sex thing. Given how off-putting even mediocre weird sex poo poo can be in RPG materials, having someone's creepy sexual fantasies on full display here is just bad for the game. I mean, can you actually imagine inflicting this infection on a player character? Or describing an NPC suffering from it?
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Jan 12, 2017 21:56
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Hold on, let me find any possible object or circumstance that is not somebody's weird sex thing to use as a benchmark for this discussion (cut to your cobwebbed skeleton waiting for my return)
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Jan 12, 2017 22:03
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