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Someone is doing an lp of Battlefield 1 and is requesting people post about WWI history as they are not knowledgeable.
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Jan 12, 2017 02:00
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Mycroft Holmes posted:Someone is doing an lp of Battlefield 1 and is requesting people post about WWI history as they are not knowledgeable.  Tell them Belgium had it coming for the Congo.
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Jan 12, 2017 02:57
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There was this classic I wanna say 70s Bundeswehr urban combat training film that was among the funniest things I've ever seen. About every three seconds the narrator would say "Granate rein" (throw a grenade in there) in this extremely dry, but chipper tone followed by the clacky noise of one or two of those old iron grenades on concrete floor. Some of the poo poo they were pulling seemed kinda dubiously practical against actual resistance but they were very diligent about the grenade thing.
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Jan 12, 2017 10:14
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Can someone tell me about the strategic and tactical failures that led the NCR to a stalemate with Ceasers Legion until the intervention of the Courier? I've been hearing a lot about how lovely the NCRs standard issue rifle was and how their lack of heavy weapons or cavalry really screwed them over on the long Nevada front.
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Jan 12, 2017 11:20
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Mycroft Holmes posted:Can someone tell me about the strategic and tactical failures that led the NCR to a stalemate with Ceasers Legion until the intervention of the Courier? I've been hearing a lot about how lovely the NCRs standard issue rifle was and how their lack of heavy weapons or cavalry really screwed them over on the long Nevada front. There's a lot of criticism thrown the way of the service rifle, but as usual its overall effect is overblown. Sure, the light calibre and minimal magazine size sure weren't helpful, but the personal armament of the line soldier rarely makes a difference. They could all have been armed with AER12 laser rifles and it wouldn't have made a difference. No, it was a classic case of preparing for the last war in time for the next. Their tactics were still focused around a time were your enemies would roll up with power armour and fat mans, where you'd be spread out and go for harrying attacks. But that doesn't really do a drat thing when a cohort comes running right up the centre and you can't focus enough firepower to stop them. They just should have gone back to the prewar basics: Concentrated lines and strongpoints, trenches, and lots and lots of barbed wire. Perestroika fucked around with this message at 14:21 on Jan 12, 2017 |
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Jan 12, 2017 12:02
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Perestroika posted:There's a lot of criticism thrown the way of the service rifle, but as usual its overall effect overblown. Sure, the light calibre and minimal magazine sights sure weren't helpful, but the personal armament of the line soldier rarely makes a difference. They could all have been armed with AER12 laser rifles and it wouldn't have made a difference. I'm looking at first hand accounts and they don't mention any squad carrying weapons heavier than a service rifle, not even a machine gun. Also, wasn't the logistic situation on the Nevada front terrible? Camp Forlorn Hope is mentioned as a shithole to end all shitholes. Mycroft Holmes fucked around with this message at 12:09 on Jan 12, 2017 |
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Jan 12, 2017 12:07
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Mycroft Holmes posted:I'm looking at first hand accounts and they don't mention any squad carrying weapons heavier than a service rifle, not even a machine gun. Yeah it was pretty bad all over for NCR troops in that area. You could say patrolling the Mojave almost made you wish for a nuclear winter. Owlkill fucked around with this message at 12:21 on Jan 12, 2017 |
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Jan 12, 2017 12:18
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To be fair, when your commanding officer names an outpost "Forlorn Hope" and nobody bats an eye, the organizational rot has run very deep.
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Jan 12, 2017 13:13
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Mycroft Holmes posted:Can someone tell me about the strategic and tactical failures that led the NCR to a stalemate with Ceasers Legion until the intervention of the Courier? I've been hearing a lot about how lovely the NCRs standard issue rifle was and how their lack of heavy weapons or cavalry really screwed them over on the long Nevada front. Wait. I think I've been tricked.
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Jan 12, 2017 13:17
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It doesn't help that illegal aliens are bringing in untraceable weapons to sell on the market either.
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Jan 12, 2017 13:18
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The NCR was operating at the end of their supply line among a populace at best indifferent to their presence, at worst actively hostile, against a foe many would describe as stupid beyond reason. Their failures were strategic, not tactical.
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Jan 12, 2017 13:19
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VanSandman posted:The NCR was operating at the end of their supply line among a populace at best indifferent to their presence, at worst actively hostile, against a foe many would describe as stupid beyond reason. Their failures were strategic, not tactical. Reading some of the AARs, I don't get that feeling. I think this was a failure tactically as well. For gods sake, the NCR soldiers often didn't take cover! This was an organizational rot that makes the Austro-Hungarian army look good.
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Jan 12, 2017 13:26
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It's not like the NCR was some civ player. The idea of expansionism might be part of its ethos, but the day to day running of the republic is still influenced by the goals and feelings of individuals. Full scale war with the Legion is a heck of a lot of cost for not a lot of return, especially given the NCR's difficulties in integrating its new territories. The "stalemate" seen objectively is really a welcome respite from years of constant war. It left the NCR with reasonably defensible eastern borders and control over most of what was worth controlling in the Mojave. Technological progress would continue to improve the NCR's capabilities over time, while the Legion only really had one shot.
Fangz fucked around with this message at 13:43 on Jan 12, 2017 |
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Jan 12, 2017 13:37
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Actually im pretty sure the reason the NCRs push failed was due to some chucklefuck unleashing a pre-war robot army. I expect no less from the thread that constantly shouts down superweapons then vanishes whenever someone mentions the role liberty prime had in crushing the east coast Enclave forces 
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Jan 12, 2017 13:42
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Agean90 posted:Actually im pretty sure the reason the NCRs push failed was due to some chucklefuck unleashing a pre-war robot army. I expect no less from the thread that constantly shouts down superweapons then vanishes whenever someone mentions the role liberty prime had in crushing the east coast Enclave forces Please read The Myth of the Eastern Coast
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Jan 12, 2017 13:45
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Agean90 posted:Actually im pretty sure the reason the NCRs push failed was due to some chucklefuck unleashing a pre-war robot army. I expect no less from the thread that constantly shouts down superweapons then vanishes whenever someone mentions the role liberty prime had in crushing the east coast Enclave forces uh..the Courier was instrumental in helping the NCR neutralize Mr. House and defeat Ceasers Legion. Hell, they assassinated Ceaser even before the final battle. It's thanks to them that the NCR controls Nevada.
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Jan 12, 2017 14:24
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Mycroft Holmes posted:uh..the Courier was instrumental in helping the NCR neutralize Mr. House and defeat Ceasers Legion. Hell, they assassinated Ceaser even before the final battle. It's thanks to them that the NCR controls Nevada. Sorry what? The Courier stomped the Legion, Mr. House, and then told the NCR to gently caress off for a few decades. It was never worth conquering for the NCR, and served as a buffer between the NCR and the old American West.
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Jan 12, 2017 15:22
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VanSandman posted:Sorry what? The Courier stomped the Legion, Mr. House, and then told the NCR to gently caress off for a few decades. It was never worth conquering for the NCR, and served as a buffer between the NCR and the old American West. I think we are having a Warp in the West moment.
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Jan 12, 2017 15:43
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Was there a special term used for those soldiers who would go around after a battle with spears and kill the wounded, similarly to how a soldier on guard duty is termed a "sentry"?
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Jan 12, 2017 16:19
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Professor Shark posted:Was there a special term used for those soldiers who would go around after a battle with spears and kill the wounded, similarly to how a soldier on guard duty is termed a "sentry"? That seems very inefficient for a number of reasons.
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Jan 12, 2017 16:24
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Professor Shark posted:Was there a special term used for those soldiers who would go around after a battle with spears and kill the wounded, similarly to how a soldier on guard duty is termed a "sentry"? That job was typically carried out by camp followers, wasn't it?
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Jan 12, 2017 16:36
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Professor Shark posted:Was there a special term used for those soldiers who would go around after a battle with spears and kill the wounded, similarly to how a soldier on guard duty is termed a "sentry"? I'm pretty sure that this was actually a fairly rare occurrence, and that when wounded soldiers were killed on the battlefield it was usually by people looting the bodies.
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Jan 12, 2017 17:16
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Mycroft Holmes posted:That job was typically carried out by camp followers, wasn't it? I'd guess those gals usually had other business to attend to after a battle.
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Jan 12, 2017 17:19
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Professor Shark posted:Was there a special term used for those soldiers who would go around after a battle with spears and kill the wounded, similarly to how a soldier on guard duty is termed a "sentry"? Yeah, weird bastard.
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Jan 12, 2017 17:21
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Spartans in 300 teh movie. Was decolonization Africa the last hurrah of mercenaries in the 20th century?
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Jan 12, 2017 17:24
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JcDent posted:Spartans in 300 teh movie. Uhhhhh https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_military_company
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Jan 12, 2017 17:30
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Took me a moment to realize what thread I was in. Normally I don't bother worrying about tactical considerations with New Vegas, both because the unmodded game doesn't really support that many boots on the ground at once and because of the whole nonsense about the Legion focusing on melee as opposed to ranged weapons. It's a nice thematic opposition, but doesn't really work tactically. Other than that, the game's pretty clear about all the reasons. The NCR's troops are spread thin, it was already weary from war and expansion before they made it to the Mojave, and public will for further expansion is on the wane, it's hard to muster even more support for confronting what may be the biggest enemy force they've ever met. It's not even just a two-way stalemate, there's also gangs and raiders like the Fiends they have to contend with, and Mr. House preventing the NCR from really digging in and using the Mojave as much more than a fancy tourist destination for citizens to blow their money. As for the Legion, I'm not even certain it's a stalemate, they attacked the dam once, failed, and then spend X amount of time regrouping for the next attack. It just so happens that X, the amount of time it takes for Caesar's new #2 to get his lazy rear end to the Mojave is equal to the amount of time it takes the courier to finish one of the main questlines. Jamwad Hilder posted:I'm pretty sure that this was actually a fairly rare occurrence, and that when wounded soldiers were killed on the battlefield it was usually by people looting the bodies. Yeah, if a soldier's wounded enough to not get up and leave after a battle's done, they're not going to be a threat or anything. Either they recover enough to make a run for it, or they bleed out. Who knows, maybe they'll hold onto life long enough to be rescued when it comes time to recover the dead.
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Jan 12, 2017 17:58
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Haha, rescue. Depending on the era and battle now, sometimes hundreds of men just sort of sadly quietly suffered and died because there wasn't enough time or man power to see to the more seriously wounded (as in if you couldn't hoof it on your feet or with some minor assistance). And even if they were assisted or got off the battlefield they'd have to suffer the wonderful world of post battlefield surgery which would certainly kill those more injuried now. You could be lucky though and have been popular enough/powerful enough/rich enough to ensure you'd get a better chance of survival. Hundreds of soldiers died sadly after the first 48 hours of Waterloo because of the scale of the battle, all the surgeons and doctors were overwhelmed with the wounded from both sides. SeanBeansShako fucked around with this message at 18:27 on Jan 12, 2017 |
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Jan 12, 2017 18:24
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I remember someone mentioning a Chrome extension that replaces "PMC" with "mercenary company" 
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Jan 12, 2017 19:57
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SeanBeansShako posted:Hundreds of soldiers died sadly after the first 48 hours of Waterloo because of the scale of the battle, all the surgeons and doctors were overwhelmed with the wounded from both sides. I remember reading that the Red Cross was found after the Battle of Solferino (1870's or so) when a local doctor was kept awake at night by the screaming wounded laying around next to his house and he went out with his wife to treat them, if only to get them to shut up.
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Jan 12, 2017 20:01
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my dad posted:I remember someone mentioning a Chrome extension that replaces "PMC" with "mercenary company" I meant - as a lovely poster who should have stated so - actively involved, Dad-Literature inspiring fighting mercs, and not just self important ex militaries under the protection of US law being dicks to brown civvies. I actually wanted to know - something that would have been helpful had I stated it - if there were large Cold War mercenary involvement in conflicts outside of Africa.
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Jan 12, 2017 20:21
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Ataxerxes posted:I remember reading that the Red Cross was found after the Battle of Solferino (1870's or so) when a local doctor was kept awake at night by the screaming wounded laying around next to his house and he went out with his wife to treat them, if only to get them to shut up. The very very crude short version of that fact yeah. As post musket weaponry evolved, so did the maiming powder of the changing ammunition types. Quite a few surgeons with artistic skill put to art the horrific wounds of this era if you think you can handle the images. Up until the late 19th century projectiles smashed through the unfortunate meaty body of their victim tearing muscle, shattering bone in such a way the limb could not be simply healed naturally (enter the dreaded bone saw) with the horriic added bonus of shreds of your dirty uniform and under clothing being mixed into the wound. Oh and even if that poo poo was taken out, infection was still a risk because the surgeon wasn't wearing gloves, hadn't washed his hand and his fingers no doubt were coated with blood of the previous poor bastard he operated on.
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Jan 12, 2017 20:27
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SeanBeansShako posted:Quite a few surgeons with artistic skill put to art the horrific wounds of this era if you think you can handle the images. Took me a second to realize you were talking about actual art here. For a bit, I was imagining surgeons going insane from stress and experimenting in body mods on their patients.
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Jan 12, 2017 20:41
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On the other hand, cavitation, tumbling and hydrostatic shock.
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Jan 12, 2017 20:56
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Actually, a follwup question from my own post: Do battlefield medics/surgeons tend to have a higher incidence of PTSD or stress-related mental disorders than other soldiers? Open question for any time period or place, I guess. My gut reaction would be that they'd be more prone to it; just being in combat is bad enough, but to be the person who has to spend all their time around bleeding screaming soldiers with their guts hanging out (and sometimes watching them die even though it's your job to try and stop that) would have to do a number on your mental health.
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Jan 12, 2017 21:19
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Ainsley McTree posted:Actually, a follwup question from my own post: Do battlefield medics/surgeons tend to have a higher incidence of PTSD or stress-related mental disorders than other soldiers? Open question for any time period or place, I guess. Purely anecdotal, but most of the ones I know are kind of like EMTs. Pulling wrecked kids out of a car and trying to keep a guy from dying by holding bandages on a neck wound is probably about the same, at the end of the day. Obviously that doesn't help if you're looking for numbers or rates of PTSD or anything, but mostly they seem to be experts at compartmentalizing.
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Jan 12, 2017 21:46
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This is just anecdotal but I did quite a bit of taxi time with an air medevac unit and what those dudes did on a daily basis was pretty mind-boggling. they seem to push through it with a combination of gallows humor and energy drinks. also, You often see it said that musket or minie balls were far more destructive than modern high velocity rifle rounds. First, is this accurate, and if it isn't accurate, where did it come from?
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Jan 12, 2017 21:46
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Ainsley McTree posted:Actually, a follwup question from my own post: Do battlefield medics/surgeons tend to have a higher incidence of PTSD or stress-related mental disorders than other soldiers? Open question for any time period or place, I guess. This would suggest that civilian paramedics, firemen, surgeons etc. would also be more prone to similar symptoms, but while all firemen that I know have some grim stories about scraping dead babies out of car wrecks or diving to find drowned bodies that they refuse to talk about, I haven't noticed it affecting them (yeah, anecdotal evidence is not actual evidence). Your gut feel also doesn't include the full picture: army medics, nurses and especially surgeons are trained to face those situations and to deal with them, and there is also natural selection to it: just like you will never become a butcher if you can't handle a bit of blood and guts on your apron, you also need to have tolerance for seeing mangled bodies as a medic or you won't stay in the job for long. Having said that, in Ville Kivimäki's dissertation about Finnish army's psychological breakdowns during WW2 he did note that medics, cooks and horse drivers were disproportionately present among the patients. He put out some explanations to this: 1) these were tasks where you were working mostly alone or in small teams, so there wasn't as much bonding with peers as with ordinary riflemen 2) these were tasks that were often assigned to men deemed incapable of performing combat jobs due to weak morale, so many were predisposed to break 3) field medics also had to look at 'the most brutal face of war' eye to eye Of these, Kivimäki emphasizes #1 and points out that among the breakdowns among riflemen, while the data isn't complete because army psychiatrists didn't have time to write full diagnosis of everyone, many were described as not having socially blended among their comrades. Awkward autist goons could get ostracised, bullied, even mugged - and I'm not even joking about autism, in some cases they probably had developmental disabilities by today's standards.
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Jan 12, 2017 22:05
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I wanna say it's Keegan's Face of Battle that has an anecdote in it where he tells a curator at a museum that the most common foreign object removed by field surgeons of the musket era was teeth and bone chunks from the guy next in line to the guy hit, specifically about musket hits, not cannon (they are handling a musket at the time). That's the oldest relevant tidbit I remember, from 1976. If I'm remembering it correctly, that is ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Jan 12, 2017 22:06
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OwlFancier posted:That seems very inefficient for a number of reasons. I just assumed they did it based on movies, I thought it was a way of making sure injured soldier didn't make their way back to the enemy
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Jan 12, 2017 22:27
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