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xthetenth posted:When the starting point is an argument from incredulity and there's theories about wide swaths of monumental architecture that just so happens to be made by people of color? That's not subtle at all, man. Saying there's no way non-white people could've done that is whitewashing history because it's denying the history of everyone who isn't white, and it's based on an ill-informed idea of unadvanced ancients that's practically a dog trombone. Yeah, it's remarkable in how that stuff manages to not only be generally contemptuous of humanity's achievements, but insults the achievements of people of color in order to get there. And, unsurprisingly, the former is the argument that white guys prefer to listen to over the latter.
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Jan 13, 2017 20:20
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P1 "Come on everybody, can't we just get beyond seeing color?" P2 "Ancient Egyptians were black" P1 "Bullshit!!!!!" . . . P1 "And furthermore...."
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Jan 13, 2017 20:23
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 "No you see unlike every representation of people we have ever from history Egyptians painted themselves in abstract symbolic colors that just happened to look like normal human skin tones that would have been seen in the region at the time, don't be silly!"Jesus I don't post in here because I don't think you need another white person asking for black person 101 when Google exists so I just read passively because hey I should keep up on these issues, but I'm making an exception because oh my God how is anyone surprised you're tired of dumb white people when you can't go a page without somebody needing baby's first introduction to structural oppression. I am very sorry that this keeps happening to you.
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Jan 13, 2017 20:29
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feedmegin posted:I certainly wouldn't claim ancient Egyptians were white, because lol they were not - but, for instance, would you consider modern Egyptians to be black? 'Geographically part of Africa' and 'black people' are not automatically the same thing, and that photo up thread shows (light brown) Egyptians fighting (dark brown) Nubians, which would seem to imply the Egyptians saw a difference. Likewise, there are paintings of them fighting/conquering pale skinned guys from the Mediterranean which would imply the Egyptians saw a difference between themselves and white people, too. I mean, yes, definitely, in the sense that the Express is in fits of apoplexy about the prospect of letting even a single one into the UK. I guess that's part of why the crazy phrenologist is so weird to me. People spend some serious loving time trying to write in elaborate scientific backstory for a concept that is pretty heavily determined by the need for an excuse to be a dickhead to people arbitrarily. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 20:32 on Jan 13, 2017 |
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Jan 13, 2017 20:30
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OwlFancier posted:People spend some serious loving time trying to write in elaborate scientific backstory for a concept that is pretty heavily determined by the need for an excuse to be a dickhead to people arbitrarily. Have you ever clicked on an Eripsa thread
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Jan 13, 2017 20:40
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edit: yeah no I genuinely don't understand what's going on
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Jan 13, 2017 20:48
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I feel like the whole are Egyptians black thing is pretty dumb. It's like what do you measure blackness with just sub Saharan genes? Then yeah the average Egyptian, Yemeni, Moroccan do have a larger percentage of sub Saharan ancestry than other Arabs. If they claim blackness in America is another story. I do remember some stories of Egyptians checking African-American because they were like well we really are from the African continent. I also knew Egyptian women with tight curly hair getting hair perms in Dominican salons but are they black? I dunno.
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Jan 13, 2017 20:49
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Fluffdaddy posted:They literally cared so little about skin colors that they purposefully didnt make the southern Africans they were fighting darker than them to differentiate them. They made their art with the Quake engine? I'm sorry. But seriously though, yeah. Art reflects the people who make it (or their ideals/beliefs) and many incorrect opinions were formed because of a lack of consideration for the effects of age upon said art.
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Jan 13, 2017 20:55
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Maybe american black people should stop appropriating Egyptian culture 
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Jan 13, 2017 20:57
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Patrocclesiastes posted:Maybe american black people should stop appropriating Egyptian culture https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L53gjP-TtGE
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Jan 13, 2017 20:59
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And all this time I thought black is black is black is black
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Jan 13, 2017 21:03
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signalnoise posted:And all this time I thought black is black is black is black https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFY2kJ96jNY
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Jan 13, 2017 21:09
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Idia posted:I feel like the whole are Egyptians black thing is pretty dumb. It's like what do you measure blackness with just sub Saharan genes? Then yeah the average Egyptian, Yemeni, Moroccan do have a larger percentage of sub Saharan ancestry than other Arabs. If they claim blackness in America is another story. I do remember some stories of Egyptians checking African-American because they were like well we really are from the African continent. I also knew Egyptian women with tight curly hair getting hair perms in Dominican salons but are they black? I dunno. I think it's more of the idea that whitewashing of history isn't correct. The Egyptians, Incas, etc. had civilizations to rival Rome, but there are a lot of people who claim that white civilization as an extension of the Greco-Romans are the only people who furthered science/culture. See Steve King last year: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...m=.4aa3a25985d6 Also, would you claim that the Greeks, Romans, Israelites were "white"? That's problematic too. The idea isn't that Egyptians were exactly the same as black people in the US today, it's that all progress wasn't made by white people. Black people celebrating Egyptian culture is more of a backlash to the idea that people like them are inferior.
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Jan 13, 2017 21:09
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I liked CB4 but didnt understand it mainly because Im white and not american I think . Also sorry for that dumb post, I just wanted a Red title but didnt want to hurt anyone 
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Jan 13, 2017 21:12
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Patrocclesiastes posted:I liked CB4 but didnt understand it mainly because Im white and not american I think . Yours isn't even the 10th dumbest post in half as many pages.
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Jan 13, 2017 21:15
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Patrocclesiastes posted:I liked CB4 but didnt understand it mainly because Im white and not american I think . All in due time.
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Jan 13, 2017 21:30
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ReidRansom posted:And all I really wanted to know anyway is why it's not OK to have a white person portray a black character because that becomes erasure and poo poo, but it is absolutely OK to do the reverse, or substitute one POC for any other under some blanket of non-white when that's a pretty fucky thing to do as well. Either race matters or it doesn't, you can't have it both ways and say it only matters when you say it does, but not when someone else does. In a US context, an actor of one race playing a character of another race historically only went one way - white actors playing non-white characters, because non-white actors were barred from appearing at most mainstream theaters, and from much of the movie and music industries, either through informal agreement or just straight-up through industry rules. Also, most of the non-white characters that appeared were lovely caricatures - the white actor would be made-up with crude racial stereotype features, put on an exaggerated accent, and then play the character as a bumbling idiot (if black), a scheming evildoer (if Asian) etc etc. And this was an incredibly goddamned popular form of entertainment in the past, even within living memory. We've mostly excised it entirely from public memory now, because Jesus Christ it is bad, but one of the most popular musical styles 100 years ago was 'Coon Songs' - white singers putting on a 'black' voice (and blackface if they were singing live) and singing songs with themes like 'I sure am lazy and dumb, and like to eat watermelon while shirking, as is typical of my race' and 'I am violent and dumb, and care only for booze, money, and loving, as is typical of my race'. So having a 'white person portray a black character' comes with the historical baggage that the practice was historically used as a platform for white people to dress up as crude stereotypes of black people and portray them as inferior to white people, having also made sure that no black people were allowed to sing, act, or write where a white audience was likely to see it. And this was recent enough and pervasive enough, that it's real hard to shake that association, even if the modern portrayal is meant to be respectful. (And this isn't even getting into how the entertainment industry still isn't a level playing field.) Like, maybe if we End Racism and then wait a generation or two it'll lose these connotations? But until then it's probably gonna continue being socially unacceptable, sorry, you might want to blame people of the past for being such lovely racists.
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Jan 13, 2017 21:33
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signalnoise posted:And all this time I thought black is black is black is black Q-Tip Says 'Black is black' I believe him.
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Jan 13, 2017 21:35
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Apraxin posted:one of the most popular musical styles 100 years ago was 'Coon Songs' - white singers putting on a 'black' voice (and blackface if they were singing live) and singing songs with themes like 'I sure am lazy and dumb, and like to eat watermelon while shirking, as is typical of my race' and 'I am violent and dumb, and care only for booze, money, and loving, as is typical of my race'. not even ice cream trucks are safe (warning, white guy): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7R3pqX1uY9E
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Jan 13, 2017 21:38
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signalnoise posted:And all this time I thought black is black is black is black https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmZGxFn6dgw
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Jan 13, 2017 21:47
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Chelb posted:Yeah, it's remarkable in how that stuff manages to not only be generally contemptuous of humanity's achievements, but insults the achievements of people of color in order to get there. And, unsurprisingly, the former is the argument that white guys prefer to listen to over the latter. You really think "white guys" as a unit are down with the aliens built the pyramids as a way to insult the achievements of people of color?
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Jan 13, 2017 22:10
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flashman posted:You really think "white guys" as a unit are down with the aliens built the pyramids as a way to insult the achievements of people of color? To be fair, pretty much all of the "aliens did it" conspiracy theorists are white.
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Jan 13, 2017 22:15
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flashman posted:You really think "white guys" as a unit are down with the aliens built the pyramids as a way to insult the achievements of people of color? The point is conspiracy theories almost exclusively get criticized for how irrational they are and not for how a lot of them revolve around subjects involving PoC. There are other factors in play too but I don't think it's a coincidence that conspiracy theorists grew in volume and numbers during the Obama presidency.
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Jan 13, 2017 22:17
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ThePeavstenator posted:The point is conspiracy theories almost exclusively get criticized for how irrational they are and not for how a lot of them revolve around subjects involving PoC. There are other factors in play too but I don't think it's a coincidence that conspiracy theorists grew in volume and numbers during the Obama presidency. Man, there are going to be so many nutjobs disappointed that Obama never sent the death squads to take their guns.
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Jan 13, 2017 22:19
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biracial bear for uncut posted:Man, there are going to be so many nutjobs disappointed that Obama never sent the death squads to take their guns. The secret is he actually did and now we're all in the obamatrix.
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Jan 13, 2017 22:22
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ThePeavstenator posted:The secret is he actually did and now we're all in the obamatrix. So the President Trump part is just humans not being able to handle good things.
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Jan 13, 2017 22:36
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biracial bear for uncut posted:To be fair, pretty much all of the "aliens did it" conspiracy theorists are white. Days ago in this thread I said something like "Many people are more dumb than they are evil" and somebody's reply was something like "If your dumbness causes evil, you are evil!" Well, for one thing, I disagree with that, but bringing me to this new topic... Of the maybe two people I've known to talk seriously about ancient aliens constructing pyramids and extra-terrestrial lizards secretly ruling the planet, both had actual mental concerns and there is no way I believe they were racist for this. Like, they could absolutely de-humanize black people, but they could absolutely de-humanize me (or anybody) if certain criteria were met (to be fair I am a ginger  ). Even if their crazy ideas in effect take away from historic accomplishments of black civilizations, or are parallel with anti-semetic narratives, I maintain their illness is at least a more innocent one than the illness of being a racist. Yes, even though they were white.This is just my experience though.
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Jan 13, 2017 22:47
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BRJohnson posted:"If your dumbness causes evil, you are evil!" That's an Eichmann defense, fyi
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Jan 13, 2017 22:51
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Racism isn't just a matter of intent, it's a matter of the assumptions behind your beliefs and the context and result of your actions. You don't have to be intentionally out to marginalize PoC to have assumptions that mean you easily disbelieve their accomplishments and marginalize their history.
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Jan 13, 2017 23:00
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ThePeavstenator posted:The point is conspiracy theories almost exclusively get criticized for how irrational they are and not for how a lot of them revolve around subjects involving PoC. There are other factors in play too but I don't think it's a coincidence that conspiracy theorists grew in volume and numbers during the Obama presidency. That's because they are irrational loonies. They also try to take away the "accomplishments" of 9/11 or think the moon landing is staged. If you think racism is driving alien conspiracy theorists or that believing them is a racist thing to do then the word has lost all meaning.
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Jan 13, 2017 23:02
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flashman posted:That's because they are irrational loonies. They also try to take away the "accomplishments" of 9/11 or think the moon landing is staged. If you think racism is driving alien conspiracy theorists or that believing them is a racist thing to do then the word has lost all meaning. Since when was racism a rational analytical framework though? I get what you're saying, but at the same time it almost feels hand wavey?
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Jan 13, 2017 23:10
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flashman posted:That's because they are irrational loonies. They also try to take away the "accomplishments" of 9/11 or think the moon landing is staged. If you think racism is driving alien conspiracy theorists or that believing them is a racist thing to do then the word has lost all meaning.
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Jan 13, 2017 23:24
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In black people news, Steve Harvey has decided that riding funnier comedians coattails wasn't enough and is now engaged in some coonery. http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2017/01/13/steve-harvey-meets-donald-trump-may-get-involved-with-urban-renewal.html When these conservatives are talking about Hollywood elites and poo poo, do they not notice this smiling rear end in a top hat?
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Jan 13, 2017 23:32
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Fluffdaddy posted:In black people news, Steve Harvey has decided that riding funnier comedians coattails wasn't enough and is now engaged in some coonery. Rip Bernie Mac
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Jan 13, 2017 23:34
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I've heard he sometimes rents out his mustache as a sleeping bag.
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Jan 13, 2017 23:40
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blackguy32 posted:Rip Bernie Mac Bernie would be calling this muthafugga a muthafugga to his face just like a muthafugga deserves. In positive black people news, John Lewis just straight up called into question Trump's legitimacy as president. To also quote Bernie Mac: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JkPx0gk6LE
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Jan 13, 2017 23:41
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Hey, KM, I know ReidRansom needed to be probated for being a tool, but did you have to post a picture of the Double Down? Just looking at is giving me the runs.Fluffdaddy posted:Bernie would be calling this muthafugga a muthafugga to his face just like a muthafugga deserves. Reminder: this is what John Lewis did at Comic Con:  He is the best man in the government. May he live for a hundred and fifty years. e: When you type "John Lewis" into Google, this is what comes up: quote:Born: February 21, 1940, Troy, AL 
Majorian fucked around with this message at 23:51 on Jan 13, 2017 |
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Jan 13, 2017 23:49
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i will legit be depressed when john lewis dies
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Jan 14, 2017 00:23
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John Lewis doing the nerd circuit for March is one of many reasons I'm disappointed to live just outside his district. National loving treasure.
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Jan 14, 2017 00:27
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Fluffdaddy posted:In black people news, Steve Harvey has decided that riding funnier comedians coattails wasn't enough and is now engaged in some coonery. I've never liked Steve Harvey but between this and the racist poo poo he said about women not liking Asian men, I think he should take a long walk off of a short pier. gently caress him. I hope Cedric the Entertainer and D.L. Hughley put his rear end on blast eventually. blackguy32 posted:Rip Bernie Mac For real. 
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Jan 14, 2017 00:28
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