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Furnaceface posted:Are there any good write ups on what a hosed up polar vortex can do in the northern hemisphere? I know it will randomly make poo poo cold but there has to be way more to it than that. I can't think of any off the top of my head. Shortened growing season and unexpected frosts late into the spring come to mind though, that's going to gently caress with things in the food chain pretty hard if it's persistent. The economic impact from cities like Vancouver or Portland getting several feet of snow that lingers for weeks on end with no capability to deal with it will start to be felt long term.
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Jan 14, 2017 03:00
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Furnaceface posted:Are there any good write ups on what a hosed up polar vortex can do in the northern hemisphere? I know it will randomly make poo poo cold but there has to be way more to it than that. Increased polar vortex incidence will make climate change deniers crow about how global warming isn't true.
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Jan 14, 2017 03:05
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I want to meet whoever coined the term "global warming" and stab them in the loving heart. If they're already dead, then I would like to have them revived so I can still do it.
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Jan 14, 2017 03:17
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Star Man posted:I want to meet whoever coined the term "global warming" and stab them in the loving heart. If they're already dead, then I would like to have them revived so I can still do it. idk Wally Broecker doesn't seem like that bad a guy
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Jan 14, 2017 03:22
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Star Man posted:I want to meet whoever coined the term "global warming" and stab them in the loving heart. If they're already dead, then I would like to have them revived so I can still do it. It's not an inaccurate term, it's just that adding heat energy to an incredibly complex system doesn't always do what people assume it does.
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Jan 14, 2017 03:25
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Maybe climate change will be a good thing? I mean, obviously its going to be a disaster. But maybe a good thing, too? I'm doing some research for a paper and there's a lot of reason to believe that some countries (countries with a northern latitude mostly) will actually benefit from climate change. Take Canada for instance. Sea levels rise and there goes New Brunswick--bye bye. But there's not much business being done there either. Hell, most of the people I grew up with in Toronto were Atlantic coasters who got the gently caress outta there when the economy started to tank (no fish I think? figures). So anyways, turns out that wheat and barley actually benefit from a CO2-rich environment. And as drought becomes a problem everywhere else in the world the nations of the world will probably look towards countries like Canada and Russia for food, and they're in the position to supply them (at water-in-the-desert prices, I'm sure) since they have tons of water and the melt's going to leave them with a lot more arable land. Add to that the fact that lucrative Arctic trade routes open up and all of a sudden the Panama canal is at a competitive disadvantage as far as trade is concerned. Ntm the untapped natural resources in the North that were economically infeasible, only grows more and more feasible as the ice melts. lovely for the rest of the world, sure. But at least I didn't endure all those soul-sucking Canadian winters for nothin' 
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Jan 14, 2017 03:38
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Electric Owl posted:the melt's going to leave them with a lot more arable land. This is about when I knew the poster was talking out of their rear end and a complete idiot. Granted, New Brunswick being submerged by rapid sea level rise was also a bit. 
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Jan 14, 2017 03:42
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Rime posted:This is about when I knew the poster was talking out of their rear end and a complete idiot. Granted, New Brunswick being submerged by rapid sea level rise was also a bit. uhh flooding in Nova Scotia and New Brunswick damaging major infrastructure is a thing? also quote:http://www.agr.gc.ca/eng/science-and-innovation/agricultural-practices/agriculture-and-climate/future-outlook/impact-of-climate-change-on-canadian-agriculture/?id=1329321987305 granted, its not ideal. but it is a better deal than most other countries are in the position to receive. its about relative advantage. almost there fucked around with this message at 03:50 on Jan 14, 2017 |
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Jan 14, 2017 03:48
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Electric Owl posted:granted, its not ideal. but it is a better deal than most other countries are in the position to receive. its about relative advantage. Forgetting the part where rising sea levels will contaminate the aquifers.
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Jan 14, 2017 03:52
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Electric Owl posted:uhh flooding in Nova Scotia and New Brunswick damaging major infrastructure is a thing? Funny you didn't quote this part of that same government website: quote:However, one of the concerns is that climate change could have significant negative impacts including the increased intensity and frequency of droughts and violent storms.
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Jan 14, 2017 03:58
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Jesus Christ how does this keep happening? These people keep showing up and completely missing the real problems with climate change? Even if the Canadian shield was arable land and not a huge fuckin chunk of rock with a few inches of dirt on it, that's not going to mean poo poo when every other country in the world runs out of water and food and they come beat the crap out of our nonexistant military and take our water. Or when they block out the sun by virtue of nuclear war. Do you have any idea how many people live in California, for god's sake? Those people all need just as much water as any of us do.
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Jan 14, 2017 03:59
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The big problem is it's not clear that land further north will be arable as soon as the temperature is nominally appropriate. Maybe after a thousand years? I'd put more stock in supplying food with vertical farming and that's CLEARLY a ridiculous pipe-dream. Totally agree that Halifax + St. John's are doomed. Toronto, Chicago and Montreal are probably destined to become North America's pre-eminent cities once sea-level rise really gets underway. Also if there's one silver lining to climate change, it's that a good chunk of Surrey will be going under even under modest sea-level rise. edit: The Canadian housing bubble thread is lots of fun, but I wonder whether buying real-estate in Toronto or Chicago isn't actually a really smart long term plan. If society doesn't completely break down and property ownership isn't abolished those two cities are going to absorb a huge amount of immigration from the coasts, and presumably property will become (even more) expensive. Nocturtle fucked around with this message at 04:10 on Jan 14, 2017 |
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Jan 14, 2017 03:59
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Nocturtle posted:The big problem is it's not clear that land further north will be arable as soon as the temperature is nominally appropriate. Maybe after a thousand years? I'd put more stock in supplying food with vertical farming and that's CLEARLY a ridiculous pipe-dream. Invasive species may make the strong water transport networks of the Great Lakes a burden rather than a boon. Zebra Muscles in the House!
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Jan 14, 2017 04:07
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ChairMaster posted:Jesus Christ how does this keep happening? These people keep showing up and completely missing the real problems with climate change? No, I know the real problems. They're scary af and very real. But with Trump's election and the generally impotent global measures taken (I personally believe the nations of the world should unite and set up a manhattan-esque project and invest as many resources as possible towards developing feasible Nuclear fusion but like fat chance) I've kinda resigned myself to trying to figure out what the world will look like under the new paradigm. almost there fucked around with this message at 04:17 on Jan 14, 2017 |
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Jan 14, 2017 04:11
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Trabisnikof posted:Invasive species may make the strong water transport networks of the Great Lakes a burden rather than a boon. Zebra Muscles in the House! Zebra Muscles have been an issue in the great lakes almost as long as Ive been alive. Also a lot of dumb people in Canada wrt climate change. They have no idea how much methane is frozen in the ground up north and what happens when its released. And its not just a smelly planetary fart.
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Jan 14, 2017 04:19
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Furnaceface posted:Also a lot of dumb people in Canada Related, this article: The Globe and Mail posted:Prime Minister Justin Trudeau sparked anger and condemnation in Alberta on Friday when he said at a town hall in Ontario that the oil-sands industry needs to be “phased out” as the country transitions to a lower-carbon economy. PM Trudeau accidentally says something reasonable and forward-thinking wrt climate change, is pilloried.
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Jan 14, 2017 04:31
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Nocturtle posted:Related, this article: "I don't have a problem mom, I can stop smoking anytime I want!"
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Jan 14, 2017 04:36
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Electric Owl posted:No, I know the real problems. They're scary af and very real. But with Trump's election and the generally impotent global measures taken (I personally believe the nations of the world should unite and set up a manhattan-esque project and invest as many resources as possible towards developing feasible Nuclear fusion but like fat chance) I've kinda resigned myself to trying to figure out what the world will look like under the new paradigm. I don't think anyone's equipped to know. It's a virtually blank slate, which is why near-future "climatepunk" has been becoming a popular science-fiction genre lately. The best-case scenario probably involves the international community managing to limit itself to no nuclear exchanges, a couple of geoengineering/carbon-capture moonshots that completely pan out with no downsides, a near-total ground-up reinvention of modern infrastructure, multiple cities being completely abandoned in a relatively short time frame (who wants to go diving in the ruins of Miami?), multiple other cities being virtually rebuilt to hold a much greater population, the reforestation of Africa and South America, the debut of cloned meat as a dietary staple, and multiple rehabilitative aquaculture projects. While you're there, you might as well start construction on a lunar colony. It's going to be a rapid cultural shift, and it's coming, even as the old oil money works as hard as it can to keep it from happening. (There's a report I can't quite independently verify that the Wyoming state legislature introduced a bill this past week to make it effectively illegal to hook "clean" energy sources up to the grid at all, thus meaning that all wind/solar power generated in Wyoming would either be wasted or transmitted out of the state. The coal money is panicking right now.)
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Jan 14, 2017 06:14
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Wanderer posted:(There's a report I can't quite independently verify that the Wyoming state legislature introduced a bill this past week to make it effectively illegal to hook "clean" energy sources up to the grid at all, thus meaning that all wind/solar power generated in Wyoming would either be wasted or transmitted out of the state. The coal money is panicking right now.) https://pitchengine.com/shortgo/2017/01/13/proposed-law-would-keep-utilities-from-using/002519179546612006852 Energy generated by wind and solar power can be sold outside of the state at no penalty, but using that energy within the state carries a $10-per-megawatt-hour fine. There are wind turbines in several places along I-80 in the state because it's so windy in that part of the state. I suppose if the bill passes, it would stifle any additional development of wind and solar power in the state. Strangely enough, nuclear power is one of the approved power sources, and there's a shitload of uranium in the state, but uranium mining in Wyoming's been dead since the 80's. My mother used to work for one of the uranium mines because it was less than an hour's drive from my hometown, but then she moved on to coal in Gillette for a while. Star Man fucked around with this message at 07:11 on Jan 14, 2017 |
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Jan 14, 2017 07:09
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Electric Owl posted:granted, its not ideal. but it is a better deal than most other countries are in the position to receive. its about relative advantage.
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Jan 14, 2017 07:44
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 This year's going to own
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Jan 14, 2017 08:07
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My prediction (the truth) is that nations will continue to burn and use as much oil/coal/natural gas as they possibly can despite warnings of impending doom. When impending doom gets here via a slow, aggravating pace, they will say "its too late anyway" and continue burning and using as much fossil fuel as they can. Our own personal leaders, the republicans, will claim this is for the good of the economy. Our national and state parks will be decimated for the purpose of short term mining of natural gas, our personal property will be eminent domained for transport and mining. No carbon sinks or natural beauty will be left intact. To the very last moment they will claim it was better to have a thriving fossil fuel industry than to preserve our natural resources. And there will be some stupid, stupid guy appearing before congress holding freezer shavings in his hand saying "No, CO2 does not block infrared light, that's impossible" ignoring 80+ years of science.
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Jan 14, 2017 11:00
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The religious right want to see Jesus on a flaming horse coming down to validate their beliefs as they yet live. It's why they support Israel over anything because the temple needs rebuilding before he can come for their cowardly unfaithful asses. Anything else that helps the earth burn is just tire fire frosting.
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Jan 14, 2017 11:37
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Cranappleberry posted:My prediction (the truth) is that nations will continue to burn and use as much oil/coal/natural gas as they possibly can despite warnings of impending doom. When impending doom gets here via a slow, aggravating pace, they will say "its too late anyway" and continue burning and using as much fossil fuel as they can. Yeah, this about sums it up. Having said that though, there's a slim chance of revolution when you think of all the major world cities based on coastal areas and the ever-growing possibility of nuclear war in our lifetimes. There's a reasonably popular game on Steam and iPad called Plague Inc where the objective is to destroy humanity by creating a super virus strong and infectious enough to snowball over the globe. I'm reminded of a very ominous quote, when your homebrew superbug is about to finish off the last bits of human civilisation; it says something along the lines that the remaining million people or so infected humans realise that they're the last of their species despite their best efforts or something like that. Years from now I wonder what those who've wrought about the end, of not just vast quantities but maybe all of nature and civilisation, will be thinking as life steadily fades out across the earth.
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Jan 14, 2017 12:44
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frytechnician posted:Yeah, this about sums it up. Having said that though, there's a slim chance of revolution when you think of all the major world cities based on coastal areas and the ever-growing possibility of nuclear war in our lifetimes. You should check out a book called "Earth Abides" by George R. Stewart, it explores this precise scenario.
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Jan 14, 2017 12:49
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Now that the effects of climate change are starting to make an appreciable impact, states(especially developing ones and regressing developed states like America) will have a harder time justifying going green when they're being strained by the consequences of climate change. Climate change is so bizarre because there's absolutely nothing good that is coming out of it, no silver lining. Even if you live in the unicorn geographical area that will benefit from climate change, you are going to have to figure out how to deal with the millions of refugees that weren't so lucky. Fascism is already on the rise in response to the failure of neoliberalism, a crisis which dwarfs climate change. The future of individual states is either fascism, revolution, or death
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Jan 14, 2017 13:45
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Minge Binge posted:Now that the effects of climate change are starting to make an appreciable impact, states(especially developing ones and regressing developed states like America) will have a harder time justifying going green when they're being strained by the consequences of climate change. Real estate prices in NZ are going up.
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Jan 14, 2017 13:47
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syscall girl posted:Real estate prices in NZ are going up. Once all the rich people leave us the keys we'll know exactly what to do with all the nukes (sorry non-rich NZ folk)
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Jan 14, 2017 14:00
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ChairMaster posted:It's okay you guys we just have to work hard at reducing our personal emissions and getting people to vote democrat or something and everything will work out fine. Learned helplessness, exhibit A.
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Jan 14, 2017 14:20
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Accretionist posted:
Can we get a graph that expresses the acceleration in the rate of loss?
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Jan 14, 2017 22:39
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Jan 14, 2017 22:59
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For someone who knows jack-all about meteorology I find this kind of cool-looking. https://twitter.com/wxcharts/status/820163070332964864
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Jan 14, 2017 23:34
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Electric Owl posted:Maybe climate change will be a good thing? CO2 is not the limiting factor for plants. The amount of CO2 in the atmosphere is already rich enough, adding more only provides a small bump in productivity. Also the plants can't take advantage of increased CO2 if they don't have water because of droughts. In any case, photosynthesis stops at 104 degrees fahrenheit. If you walk outside and the temp is above 104, the plants aren't absorbing energy or growing. They are waiting it out until the temp drops in the afternoon. If we went back to the farming techniques of even the 1950's, the world would face starvation. We squeeze the maximum productivity out of our crops, and part of that is having good topsoil. You can't grow good crops in clay or dirt, even with fertilizers, because their are many qualities to good soil besides just how much nutrients are in it. Parts of the USA midwest and the mississippi river deltas have topsoil 20 feet deep. In Canada you have bedrock close to the surface . You don't thaw out the Canadian tundra or Russian siberia and suddenly have good crop land. Also, Canada won't be selling poo poo. If things get that bad the USA will be taking it. WorldsStongestNerd fucked around with this message at 05:40 on Jan 15, 2017 |
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Jan 15, 2017 05:37
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Climate change thread: there is always more and it is always worse (or whatever that was called)
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Jan 15, 2017 08:17
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frytechnician posted:There's a reasonably popular game on Steam and iPad called Plague Inc where the objective is to destroy humanity by creating a super virus strong and infectious enough to snowball over the globe. I think there's a tiny but nonzero chance of a modern first world country or organization developing a nasty, fast-acting superbug and covertly releasing it into developing areas, after carefully and quietly inoculating its own people (or a subset of people with the "preferred" characteristics for survival) . Is that  ? There might be a period of war or unrest, but if the bug burns through the unprotected population fast enough, the "winning" group could enjoy life in a much less crowded world.Edit: on reflection this is basically the plot of Moonraker, more or less... Number_6 fucked around with this message at 09:22 on Jan 15, 2017 |
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Jan 15, 2017 09:20
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A number of studies have also shown that when many crops are grown at elevated carbon dioxide levels, levels of key nutrients decline. It's not a simple system where increasing inputs will lead to increased outputs.
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Jan 15, 2017 09:23
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Number_6 posted:I think there's a tiny but nonzero chance of a modern first world country or organization developing a nasty, fast-acting superbug and covertly releasing it into developing areas, after carefully and quietly inoculating its own people (or a subset of people with the "preferred" characteristics for survival) . Is that I doubt the rich have a strong desire to limit their pool of desperate labour. It's not as if climate change is caused by crowding, either - if you want to tackle climate change by causing plague, you really need to focus on the developed world.
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Jan 15, 2017 10:10
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Number_6 posted:I think there's a tiny but nonzero chance of a modern first world country or organization developing a nasty, fast-acting superbug and covertly releasing it into developing areas, after carefully and quietly inoculating its own people (or a subset of people with the "preferred" characteristics for survival) . Is that Oh dear me posted:I doubt the rich have a strong desire to limit their pool of desperate labour. It's not as if climate change is caused by crowding, either - if you want to tackle climate change by causing plague, you really need to focus on the developed world. A Buttery Pastry fucked around with this message at 10:22 on Jan 15, 2017 |
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Jan 15, 2017 10:11
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Europe isn't going to make it through this. there's just no way. Refugees from Africa, ME, and Asia. Yikes.
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Jan 15, 2017 13:51
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Minge Binge posted:Europe isn't going to make it through this. there's just no way. Refugees from Africa, ME, and Asia. Yikes. That's a really negative attitude. What's up with that? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-Nw7HbaeWY
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Jan 15, 2017 14:13
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