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Koalas March posted:Happy MLK Day, Negrotown! Hopefully no shitheel abolishes it.
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# ? Jan 16, 2017 16:18 |
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# ? Jun 2, 2024 07:34 |
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ToxicSlurpee posted:If memory serves Santa Claus as Americans know him is ultimately based on the Dutch character, which is an amalgamation of St. Nicholas and Father Christmas which was an English thing. The Dutch character is called "Sinterklass" or "Sinterklaus" or something like that and looks more like a cardinal with a huge white beard than Santa as we know him. The American Santa looks more like Father Christmas. Christianity wasn't born as this huge all controlling monolith: for a long time Christianity, in the English Isles for example, consisted on a few itinerating monks proselytizing from village to village. Obviously these guys wouldn't be able to get the local celts and later west germanic anglo-saxons pagans to completely drop all their own traditions completely so they allowed and even welcomed some type of mixing of traditions, a level of religious syncrethism, to get the foot in the door. Later as the religion got more dominant people would burn at the stake for trying to come back to this pagan stuff, but some elements were allowed to endure as an early tradeoff to get the religion established.
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# ? Jan 16, 2017 16:27 |
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Negrotown. Talk about black stuff please, like about how you are going to the MLK March that your city is having.
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# ? Jan 16, 2017 16:29 |
blackguy32 posted:Negrotown. Talk about black stuff please, like about how you are going to the MLK March that your city is having. I swear to god, the next person who doesn't talk about something at least this black is getting probated https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kga2soqvMF0 Just stop. Stop with Santa. Stop with who is black or not Koalas March fucked around with this message at 16:37 on Jan 16, 2017 |
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# ? Jan 16, 2017 16:34 |
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blackguy32 posted:Negrotown. Talk about black stuff please, like about how you are going to the MLK March that your city is having. What about not having the day off because your vacation day request wasn't approved and your employer doesn't recognize it as a holiday? EDIT: Found a list of events for today in Atlanta, but there doesn't seem to be very much going on after working hours unless you're actually in/near the city. http://www.ajc.com/events/atlanta-events-commemorating-the-legacy-king/NdAXSnc16Of3FVn724gIdK/ EDIT #2: Also, Santa is totally based on a white deity co-opted by Catholicism into being a saint. Odin and the Wild Hunt and a bunch of other traditions mixed together, with the horrifying elements taken out to make them more marketable. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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# ? Jan 16, 2017 16:36 |
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biracial bear for uncut posted:What about not having the day off because your vacation day request wasn't approved and your employer doesn't recognize it as a holiday? The MLK parade luckily goes right outside of the building I work in which is nice. Our town is about 18% black so we usually get a good turn out. At least they don't push the "Robert E Lee Day" poo poo here. Of course our mayor is insane and literally quoted Hitler in response to a Saint Patrick's Day Parade so...
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# ? Jan 16, 2017 16:55 |
I remember in VA growing up, they used to recognize it as Lee/Jackson/King Day which I always thought was uniquely hideous. Apparently now they've split the holiday into the previous Friday (Lee/Jackson) along with MLK Monday, which is only a mild improvement.
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# ? Jan 16, 2017 17:04 |
In honor of Martin, I present in it's entirety:Martin Luther King, A Letter from a Birmingham Jail posted:16 April 1963
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# ? Jan 16, 2017 17:13 |
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Koalas March posted:In honor of Martin, I present in it's entirety: I'm ashamed that I've never read this in it's entirety until you put it in front of me just now. Just bits and pieces . In its whole it is an incredible piece of art: truth, emotion, and well structured argument in a single great package. This should be required reading. Anyway sorry I'm stating the obvious. Thanks for sharing. I'm trying to be les of an ignorant person.
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# ? Jan 16, 2017 17:47 |
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Knockknees posted:I'm ashamed that I've never read this in it's entirety until you put it in front of me just now. Just bits and pieces . In its whole it is an incredible piece of art: truth, emotion, and well structured argument in a single great package. This should be required reading. Same, thanks
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# ? Jan 16, 2017 17:55 |
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The Nashville BLM has decided to do a screening of 13th downtown at the UMC Publishing house. I love the idea, especially for a lot of allies that might not have a full grasp of the prison system and how the amendment has been used as a cudgel against black folks since Reconstruction. So if you haven't seen the movie yet, give it a watch! It's on Netflix.
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# ? Jan 16, 2017 18:06 |
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Knockknees posted:I'm ashamed that I've never read this in it's entirety until you put it in front of me just now. Just bits and pieces . In its whole it is an incredible piece of art: truth, emotion, and well structured argument in a single great package. This should be required reading.
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# ? Jan 16, 2017 18:42 |
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Given the day, this is as good an opportunity as I'm likely to get to run another question by you all, this time concerning the prominence of non-violence in how we remember MLK jr. For background, I'm a historian and though I tend to focus more on Europe, I have taught a fair amount of US history and whenever the subject of MLK jr comes up inevitably the first thing students will comment on is how admirable his use of non-violence was. How he used it, in what context, and toward what specific ends, however, are often distressingly vague. In part, I don't doubt this comes from just general weaknesses in high school history classes, but I've for a long time had the sneaking suspicion that there's been a deliberate move to overemphasis on his use of non-violence as a way to demarcate that which is "safe" to commemorate about him, downplay the rest of what he did, and by association with the great man thus delegitimize any other social actor who doesn't follow the (sanitized, inaccurate) path thus prescribed. Or, to put it much more simply, do you think that a lot of people talk up a superficial version of non-violent resistance just to give themselves an excuse to dismiss any other form of racial activism?
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# ? Jan 16, 2017 18:55 |
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Captain_Maclaine posted:Given the day, this is as good an opportunity as I'm likely to get to run another question by you all, this time concerning the prominence of non-violence in how we remember MLK jr. For background, I'm a historian and though I tend to focus more on Europe, I have taught a fair amount of US history and whenever the subject of MLK jr comes up inevitably the first thing students will comment on is how admirable his use of non-violence was. How he used it, in what context, and toward what specific ends, however, are often distressingly vague. In part, I don't doubt this comes from just general weaknesses in high school history classes, but I've for a long time had the sneaking suspicion that there's been a deliberate move to overemphasis on his use of non-violence as a way to demarcate that which is "safe" to commemorate about him, downplay the rest of what he did, and by association with the great man thus delegitimize any other social actor who doesn't follow the (sanitized, inaccurate) path thus prescribed. The best way IMO is to point out that "non-violence" is often different to different people. The BLM protests have largely been non-violent, and yet they're still largely derided as violent riots by white people. This wasn't any different in MLK's time. Koalas March posted:Happy MLK Day, Negrotown! Would you like to read an article written by the real life version of the man getting hit with the chair? Well do I have the article for you! Nothing says "Martin Luther King Jr. Was A Great Conservative" like citing one sermon from the mid 1950s and ignoring everything that came after that.
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# ? Jan 16, 2017 19:19 |
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Captain_Maclaine posted:Or, to put it much more simply, do you think that a lot of people talk up a superficial version of non-violent resistance just to give themselves an excuse to dismiss any other form of racial activism? Maybe tangentially related, or direct, I'm not sure. But I find a lot of people focus on civil disobedience rather than civil disobedience if you get what I mean. But you can do a ctrl-f on that letter for "direct action" and see how much it comes up. There's no such thing as passive resistance in a civil rights issue in my opinion. You can't even take a knee without someone telling you you are your job, not a person.
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# ? Jan 16, 2017 19:22 |
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Koalas March posted:In honor of Martin, I present in it's entirety: It's like the polar opposite of galtse. Pretty loving great piece of writing that.
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# ? Jan 16, 2017 19:23 |
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You could also use Colin Kapernick silently kneeling during the the National anthem as another example of the 'wrong' kind of non-violent protest according to white people. All he did was kneel yet people lost their poo poo about it. Edit:Beaten
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# ? Jan 16, 2017 19:23 |
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DC Murderverse posted:The best way IMO is to point out that "non-violence" is often different to different people. The BLM protests have largely been non-violent, and yet they're still largely derided as violent riots by white people. This wasn't any different in MLK's time. Oh I'm well aware that MLK jr was routinely accused of hiding murderous intent behind the mask of non-violence and his events weren't non-violent anyway (because they provoked the cops into attacking them by, well, existing in any way at all). It's struck me for some time that how he's praised in white quarters is often just a way to disarm what he actually did and stood for, and transform his legacy into a slightly more refined version of "if you spoke proper English and pulled your drat pants up then the cops wouldn't have hassled you in the first place."
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# ? Jan 16, 2017 19:29 |
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When people marched in the streets recently here in Cincinnati, when the Ray Tensing trial ended in a hung jury, they simply walked in the street thru the city and then ended in Washington park. Every single time I heard a white person reference this they called it a 'riot' or 'riots'.
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# ? Jan 16, 2017 19:32 |
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Between how much of my MLK knowledge is self-learned and how little I know about Malcolm X or the Black Panthers and how none of either was learned in school, I have to imagine that picking the few figures that could be sanitized and praised for being non-violent were picked out intentionally. Even MLKs views about lifting everyone out of poverty, accepting riots as "the language of the unheard", and condemning the white moderate for valuing peace over justice... that's poo poo that I didn't hear until the last year or two when I started involving myself in social justice circles.
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# ? Jan 16, 2017 19:34 |
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Captain_Maclaine posted:Given the day, this is as good an opportunity as I'm likely to get to run another question by you all, this time concerning the prominence of non-violence in how we remember MLK jr. For background, I'm a historian and though I tend to focus more on Europe, I have taught a fair amount of US history and whenever the subject of MLK jr comes up inevitably the first thing students will comment on is how admirable his use of non-violence was. How he used it, in what context, and toward what specific ends, however, are often distressingly vague. In part, I don't doubt this comes from just general weaknesses in high school history classes, but I've for a long time had the sneaking suspicion that there's been a deliberate move to overemphasis on his use of non-violence as a way to demarcate that which is "safe" to commemorate about him, downplay the rest of what he did, and by association with the great man thus delegitimize any other social actor who doesn't follow the (sanitized, inaccurate) path thus prescribed. Have you every heard of Bayard Rustin?
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# ? Jan 16, 2017 19:35 |
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there wolf posted:Have you every heard of Bayard Rustin? Yeah, but only because I've taught US social history. Your point, I'd imagine.
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# ? Jan 16, 2017 19:37 |
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He's dead now, so a Man who was a terrifying threat to their way of life and a subversive possible communist and whatever else they tried to tie to his name is now a perfect martyr to the way it should be done. Oh and let me explain to you exactly what MLK meant when he said this, and this is how he would react to this now, etc.. I wouldn't be surprised if all that he wrote and said in his lifetime were completely outstripped by the amount of words put into his mouth posthumously by people co opting his image to push their agenda.
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# ? Jan 16, 2017 19:37 |
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I think people forget that King was a Christian as well as a revolutionary and that he did a pretty drat good job of both. He's very clear about the importance of resisting and opposing injustice and the role of unilateral action in doing that, he just has a very Christian understanding of how it's appropriate to do it.
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# ? Jan 16, 2017 19:38 |
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there wolf posted:Have you every heard of Bayard Rustin? Actually yes. I lived next to a high school named after him and I have no loving clue whatsoever about anything else about the man.
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# ? Jan 16, 2017 19:43 |
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I can't help but think that a lot of the deconstruction of MLK Jr's actions is also just because he's such a prominent and successful figure. Lots of reasons for both, but he's the guy in the spotlight. So people try to tear him down, but can't because he's basically untouchable, so instead they dilute his message. Something else about this bothers me though, which is that when I talk to closet or self-unknown racists, they all know King and have something to say about him, but they don't know who Eldridge Cleaver was, despite him being a much easier target for the kind of poo poo they like to say. It all leads me to believe that the major oppressive group today isn't the active white supremacist leading the charge, but rather the massive group of people who just aren't listening. They go along with what's being done and they want everyone else to do the same. That's why people freaked out about such a minor thing as taking a knee during the national anthem, and that is why demonstrations are necessary. Because I think a lot of these people would agree that civil rights is still an issue if they were paying attention, but ignorance is bliss. And that's why Cleaver said it, "you're either part of the problem or part of the solution." If you're a bystander in this, you're a part of the problem. MLK Jr made it easier for people to be part of the solution, because all you have to do is make people pay attention. That's all. I believe most people are good and have good intentions, but they aren't listening because it feels bad to know about injustice that they don't think they can fix. So all respect to MLK Jr for his marches, and respect to the marchers of today carrying on that tradition, even just to be seen and have the message heard, making it harder to ignore that the problem exists. If there's nothing else you can do, you can make yourself visible.
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# ? Jan 16, 2017 19:53 |
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Death Bot posted:Between how much of my MLK knowledge is self-learned and how little I know about Malcolm X or the Black Panthers and how none of either was learned in school, I have to imagine that picking the few figures that could be sanitized and praised for being non-violent were picked out intentionally. , although to be fair, I think non-violence gets an unfair bad rap nowadays, because people don't realize that "non-violent" doesn't mean "non-disruptive."
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# ? Jan 16, 2017 19:58 |
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I think the key is remembering that nothing will ever be good enough for the people who don't want to hear about it. Racism is dead, the 2008 election killed it. Anyone saying anything otherwise is just a troublemaker playing the race card. They don't want to see protest, they don't want to hear about protest, and they certainly don't want their days to be at all impacted by protest. MLK Jr. is to them a tool for shaming people they disagree with, because as others have stated, even his protests couldn't really be said to be non violent because people reacted violently to them. And of course, at the time, it was the protesters who got the blame for those reactions. They just want to live in a post racial society. You know, theirs. So gently caress it, you can't make them happy, and I'm greatly in support of those who aren't trying. Nobody gets anything meekly waiting around for those with it to suddenly decide to share it. remusclaw fucked around with this message at 20:02 on Jan 16, 2017 |
# ? Jan 16, 2017 19:59 |
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remusclaw posted:I think the key is remembering that nothing will ever be good enough for the people who don't want to hear about it. Racism is dead, the 2008 election killed it. Anyone saying anything otherwise is just a troublemaker playing the race card. They don't want to see protest, they don't want to hear about protest, and they certainly don't want their days to be at all impacted by protest. MLK Jr. is to them a tool for shaming people they disagree with, because as others have stated, even his protests couldn't really be said to be non violent because people reacted violently to them. And of course, at the time, it was the protesters who got the blame for those reactions. Initially, yes, but eventually enough people across the country began to see how savagely the protesters were being treated. The point of a non-violent movement is to provoke an overreaction from those in power. But for it to work, 1, you have to be disruptive, and 2, you have to be willing to get the poo poo kicked out of you, as John Lewis was.
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# ? Jan 16, 2017 20:15 |
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remusclaw posted:Nobody gets anything meekly waiting around for those with it to suddenly decide to share it. To quote Benjamin Mays, the final speaker for MLK Jr's eulogy: quote:He was convinced, also, that people could not be moved to abolish voluntarily the inhumanity of man to man by mere persuasion and pleading, but that they could be moved to do so by dramatizing the evil through massive nonviolent resistance. And just because I love this, another quote from Mays: quote:For he who starts behind in the great race of life must forever remain behind or run faster than the man in front. The man who is handicapped by circumstances over which he has no control must work harder than the man with no handicaps to overcome. Never diminish the efforts or achievements of the oppressed.
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# ? Jan 16, 2017 20:16 |
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Majorian posted:Initially, yes, but eventually enough people across the country began to see how savagely the protesters were being treated. The point of a non-violent movement is to provoke an overreaction from those in power. But for it to work, 1, you have to be disruptive, and 2, you have to be willing to get the poo poo kicked out of you, as John Lewis was. Well, and 3) enough people have to have enough shame to actually be revolted by it, instead of cheering the cops on.
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# ? Jan 16, 2017 20:18 |
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Captain_Maclaine posted:Well, and 3) enough people have to have enough shame to actually be revolted by it, instead of cheering the cops on. Yeah, but a lot of folks cheered the cops on in the 50's and 60's. It took a lot of resilience and beatings, but eventually more people sided with the protesters than with the cops.
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# ? Jan 16, 2017 20:24 |
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Majorian posted:Yeah, but a lot of folks cheered the cops on in the 50's and 60's. It took a lot of resilience and beatings, but eventually more people sided with the protesters than with the cops. They still cheer the cops.
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# ? Jan 16, 2017 20:25 |
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remusclaw posted:They still cheer the cops. And we still fight on. You giving up?
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# ? Jan 16, 2017 20:26 |
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Lenin had a quote from State and Revolution that I feel is pretty appropriate wrt how a lot of Americans are taught about MLK and his mission.quote:What is now happening to Marx's theory has, in the course of history, happened repeatedly to the theories of revolutionary thinkers and leaders of oppressed classes fighting for emancipation. During the lifetime of great revolutionaries, the oppressing classes constantly hounded them, received their theories with the most savage malice, the most furious hatred and the most unscrupulous campaigns of lies and slander. After their death, attempts are made to convert them into harmless icons, to canonize them, so to say, and to hallow their names to a certain extent for the “consolation” of the oppressed classes and with the object of duping the latter, while at the same time robbing the revolutionary theory of its substance, blunting its revolutionary edge and vulgarizing it
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# ? Jan 16, 2017 20:27 |
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https://mobile.twitter.com/domboulevard/status/821054440568455168
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# ? Jan 16, 2017 20:29 |
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remusclaw posted:They still cheer the cops. They do. poo poo changed between the civil rights victories of the 60's. Things backslide occasionally. Are we supposed to take that to mean that progress can't be made again? AShamefulDisplay posted:Lenin had a quote from State and Revolution that I feel is pretty appropriate wrt how a lot of Americans are taught about MLK and his mission. Tbf, Lenin was pretty bloodthirsty, and contemporary Marxists love to whitewash him too, so...point proven, I guess? Majorian fucked around with this message at 20:32 on Jan 16, 2017 |
# ? Jan 16, 2017 20:29 |
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Fluffdaddy posted:And we still fight on. You giving up? No. But 60 years on and some people still look at murder and call it justified for the sake of who did it, never mind why they did it.
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# ? Jan 16, 2017 20:31 |
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remusclaw posted:No. But 60 years on and some people still look at murder and call it justified for the sake of who did it, never mind why they did it. And we still fight on.
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# ? Jan 16, 2017 20:35 |
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# ? Jun 2, 2024 07:34 |
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xthetenth posted:Actually yes. I lived next to a high school named after him and I have no loving clue whatsoever about anything else about the man. Bayard Rustin was the person who sold MLK on the idea of non-violent protest. He was an early civil rights leader who supported King, as well as being a gay, pacifist, communist, which is why it's awesome that there's a high school named after him. He got kind of written out of the history books because he was gay, but I can't really effectively summarize his life and accomplishments so I highly recommend just perusing his wiki.
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# ? Jan 16, 2017 20:36 |