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Tree Bucket posted:Save the Whale The last Svalbard Polar Bear has already been born.
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Jan 18, 2017 03:55
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cowofwar posted:This is literally what our previous conservative PM in Canada did. Fired all the scientists, muzzled them and then shut down any project that generated data. Yeah, and the disbelief and loss of data that caused spurred on the data arks and preservation efforts back in November. Things are going to keep getting so, so much worse but at least when Trump is sent packing we'll be able to take stock and quickly know how absolutely hosed we are.
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Jan 18, 2017 04:00
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yea the furry monsters that drink coke-cola are dead. Don't eat their livers. Poisonous.
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Jan 18, 2017 04:11
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OAquinas posted:Take stock and quickly know how absolutely hosed we are. OAquinas posted:absolutely OAquinas posted:absolutely hosed
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Jan 18, 2017 04:11
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^^^This is for you too, as well as everyone else posting itt.OAquinas posted:Yeah, and the disbelief and loss of data that caused spurred on the data arks and preservation efforts back in November. Things are going to keep getting so, so much worse but at least when Trump is sent packing we'll be able to take stock and quickly know how absolutely hosed we are. At the same time though, the situation politically seems pretty crystal clear, which at least is something: Republicans and their voters want to kill us all starting with the US, and you can expect nothing good from that side of the table from an ideologically absolutist perspective. The primary reasons for that are unenlightened self-interest and ignorance. The former must very clearly be fought with no hesitation or compromise, the latter with greater education efforts. We know what to do, and can start getting involved in that even at a completely basic level, because as far as doing something impactful goes, getting political about it - join a group, vote, educate - is where any individual can see the greatest returns on their effort. Heck, you already have a lot of help from the progressive left, which does care greatly about climate change (but even there can stand to gain a better understanding of the severity of the problem). Any disagreements on that? Is there something else that's more helpful? As far as I'm concerned, the only wrong move is to lie down and give up. There's also no reason to not also prepare for what you perceive to be the troubles ahead at the same time, and I'm still of the opinion that green sustainable living, off-the-grid utilities, homegrowing aquaculture technology, better disaster preparedness and such can beneficially be combined with local activism, groups and political action. Trump won't kill us all if you don't allow him to.
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Jan 18, 2017 09:57
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How do I explain to my SO that I don't want to have kids because I'm pretty sure they will live a life much worse than mine, and my life already is poo poo? Like people just completely ignore the climate change problem because it's so big. I'm pretty sure everyone is just hoping all the scientists have it wrong and it will all end up being a big misunderstanding, because actually facing the reality means that we need to start making huge changes yesterday.
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Jan 18, 2017 10:09
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Is it bad that the most alarming thing to me is just how few people actually post in this thread relative to some of the others? Most important topic, no one loving cares.
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Jan 18, 2017 10:46
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cosmicprank posted:Is it bad that the most alarming thing to me is just how few people actually post in this thread relative to some of the others? Most important topic, no one loving cares. Too big a problem, maybe? People probably feel like little old them can't make a difference, which is wrong. Everyone counts. I do see this thread referenced a lot, so it's probably got a bigger amount of followers than you think. People are definitely talking about climate change all over, so for SA I don't think it's a matter of lack of awareness. Edit: At the same time, it's probably also that the OP doesn't really overemphasize how hosed we are (if we don't do anything) but is more solution-oriented than doomsaying. I think that people feel very helpless in the face of such a huge problem, which breeds passivity and hopelessness (as evidenced by every sadbrains post about not having children, etc.). That very fact might be the first problem to deal with for posters itt, because if you get over the hurdle of people (in general) not knowing what to do and feeling overwhelmed by it, I think some serious action might result. I do think the OP is good for the direction of the thread though, because doomsaying and despair won't get us anywhere. Considering that, the OP is pretty perfect for a global warming thread. However, maybe a thread name change might be in order, just to underscore the seriousness of the topic? "Accelerated Climate Change: What is happening and what must be done." Or something to that effect? Maybe something humorous would be nice too, just to make it internet/goon friendly. I'd come up with something, but I'm not funny, or else I wouldn't be posting here :iamafag: Something nice and dark, maybe? Nice piece of fish fucked around with this message at 10:58 on Jan 18, 2017 |
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Jan 18, 2017 10:49
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cosmicprank posted:Is it bad that the most alarming thing to me is just how few people actually post in this thread relative to some of the others? Most important topic, no one loving cares. I think I have just gone horribly numb by now. I haven't looked at any of the links marked "please don't read if you're suicidal/Aceofflames", though.
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Jan 18, 2017 11:11
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maybe we should franchise the ice shelves, like the red bull west shelf or something. that might make americans care.
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Jan 18, 2017 11:21
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dex_sda posted:maybe we should franchise the ice shelves, like the red bull west shelf or something. that might make americans care. it's all full of penguin poo poo nobody likes that
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Jan 18, 2017 11:26
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syscall girl posted:it's all full of penguin poo poo Penguin poo poo is great as fertilizer, and the world sure need more of that.
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Jan 18, 2017 11:39
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I don't think we have to worry about the ice shelves being full of penguins in the future so why franchise them
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Jan 18, 2017 11:40
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SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:I don't think we have to worry about the ice shelves being full of penguins in the future so why franchise them You want to give an incentive for the capital for preserving the ice, and it sure is much harder to extract penguin poop when it is dissolved in an ocean!
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Jan 18, 2017 11:44
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syscall girl posted:it's all full of penguin poo poo The White Bay Shitters
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Jan 18, 2017 11:45
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You know what, scratch the franchising idea. They'd probably try to relocate the shelf to Arizona.
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Jan 18, 2017 11:46
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Nice piece of fish posted:Too big a problem, maybe? People probably feel like little old them can't make a difference, which is wrong. Everyone counts. I think there's a disconnect between those that view this as a fundamentally solvable problem and those that don't. When people post about local initiatives and going green and then others are like lol, whatever that's the manifestation of the disconnect. For some the calculus has changed, and while mitigation is important the pressing issue is one of adaptation. You can be in the camp that thinks global civilization is unavoidably right hosed and not be a gloomy Gus, but you're going to approach things from a different vantage point.
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Jan 18, 2017 12:47
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Gareth Gobulcoque posted:I think there's a disconnect between those that view this as a fundamentally solvable problem and those that don't. When people post about local initiatives and going green and then others are like lol, whatever that's the manifestation of the disconnect. For some the calculus has changed, and while mitigation is important the pressing issue is one of adaptation. Sure, but that sort of begs the question of why a person can't do both? Even if you believe the earth is irrevocably screwed, why not combine your personal adaptation efforts with mitigation? After all, every degree is really honestly worth fighting for, and a lot of adaptation is very much a window for spreading awareness, knowledge and create groups and communities with similar views on climate change, which again can combine their effort for even more local and national impact. We're not talking about recycling anymore at that point, we're talking about lifestyle changes and a visual and visceral impact on local communities. That is the paradigm shift we need to start to see happening to change our societies to something renewable and perpetual without a huge drop in living standard or education. That's an actual way towards an effective remedy. Isolationism and nihilism is the exact opposite of the reaction we need, which means helping people out of that mindset is also an effective effort when it comes to climate change.
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Jan 18, 2017 13:17
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cosmicprank posted:Is it bad that the most alarming thing to me is just how few people actually post in this thread relative to some of the others? Most important topic, no one loving cares. People don't post because there isn't enough pointless trivial bullshit to argue about. It's the bike shed problem, only worse. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_triviality
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Jan 18, 2017 14:38
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I don't post because what is there to do? I read this thread every day, but 99% of the time, the most an individual can do is just help their local community. A handful of rich fucks in charge of the oil and gas industries have infinitely more power to change things, and they're just going to keep doing everything they can to bring about the apocalypse.
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Jan 18, 2017 14:54
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Nice piece of fish posted:Sure, but that sort of begs the question of why a person can't do both? Even if you believe the earth is irrevocably screwed, why not combine your personal adaptation efforts with mitigation? After all, every degree is really honestly worth fighting for, and a lot of adaptation is very much a window for spreading awareness, knowledge and create groups and communities with similar views on climate change, which again can combine their effort for even more local and national impact. We're not talking about recycling anymore at that point, we're talking about lifestyle changes and a visual and visceral impact on local communities Every degree is genuinely not worth fighting for. The material effect on my life will be identical regardless of if I spend the rest of my life trying the best I can to make a positive difference in the world. There will be no effect or meaning behind anything I do, we are years and years too late for anything like that to matter. I'm gonna consume and pollute as much as I feel like for whatever's left of my life time spent in this wealthy rear end period of time we live in, because it is definitely going away pretty soon and there is definitely nothing anyone who gives a poo poo about the future can do about it. Best case scenario is that some day I have enough money to buy enough poo poo to survive for a pretty long time in a post-global-human-civilization world.
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Jan 18, 2017 15:18
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ChairMaster posted:Every degree is genuinely not worth fighting for. The material effect on my life will be identical regardless of if I spend the rest of my life trying the best I can to make a positive difference in the world. There will be no effect or meaning behind anything I do, we are years and years too late for anything like that to matter. I'm gonna consume and pollute as much as I feel like for whatever's left of my life time spent in this wealthy rear end period of time we live in, because it is definitely going away pretty soon and there is definitely nothing anyone who gives a poo poo about the future can do about it. Best case scenario is that some day I have enough money to buy enough poo poo to survive for a pretty long time in a post-global-human-civilization world. So what's it to you if the rest of us decide to do a thing? I mean, you've been a complete nihilist throughout this entire thread, but you seem really invested in that everyone should just give up and go quietly into the night. Well, I disagree. So why do you care if we do something? Go and sit in the dark and weep or whatever it is you do, no reason for you to even post itt since it's all so hopeless anyway, right?
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Jan 18, 2017 15:53
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Not all nihilists are suicidal, some people do stuff just because they feel like it. I just don't like the idea of people wasting so much time and effort towards a greater good that cannot materalise when they could be putting that time and effort into making their own lives better instead.
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Jan 18, 2017 16:09
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Nice piece of fish posted:That is the paradigm shift we need to start to see happening to change our societies to something renewable and perpetual without a huge drop in living standard or education. That's an actual way towards an effective remedy. Isolationism and nihilism is the exact opposite of the reaction we need, which means helping people out of that mindset is also an effective effort when it comes to climate change. The whole message becomes a lot more palatable to a mainstream audience when people are willing to admit (as you did here) that specifically modern technological society has a lot to offer and is worth holding onto.
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Jan 18, 2017 16:14
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ChairMaster posted:Not all nihilists are suicidal, some people do stuff just because they feel like it. I just don't like the idea of people wasting so much time and effort towards a greater good that cannot materalise when they could be putting that time and effort into making their own lives better instead. Well then, gently caress off. Go try to convince climate change deniers to give up.
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Jan 18, 2017 16:19
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This thread does help; I've changed my diet, moved closer to my workplace and sold my car because of this thread. Sharing the charts and animations posted here with my co-workers has raised plenty of eyebrows. But I am lurker so 
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Jan 18, 2017 16:36
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ChairMaster posted:Not all nihilists are suicidal, some people do stuff just because they feel like it. I just don't like the idea of people wasting so much time and effort towards a greater good that cannot materalise when they could be putting that time and effort into making their own lives better instead. Climate change is a collective action problem and individual consumption choices don't matter at all. If you don't think there's any reasonable chance of mitigation and organized your life accordingly that's fine, however I don't understand the desire to dissuade other people trying to improve the situation. What difference does it make to you? At the very least try not to express these opinions at parties.
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Jan 18, 2017 16:38
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I think ChairMaster has land holdings in NZ.
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Jan 18, 2017 16:44
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large oblate cat posted:This thread does help; I've changed my diet, moved closer to my workplace and sold my car because of this thread. Sharing the charts and animations posted here with my co-workers has raised plenty of eyebrows. Stay awesome.
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Jan 18, 2017 16:47
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Nocturtle posted:Climate change is a collective action problem and individual consumption choices don't matter at all. If you don't think there's any reasonable chance of mitigation and organized your life accordingly that's fine, however I don't understand the desire to dissuade other people trying to improve the situation. What difference does it make to you? At the very least try not to express these opinions at parties. It makes sense if your goal is to just consume as much as possible and then die. Positive action on climate change may legitimately mean a reduced standard of living in first world countries, so I get not wanting to see others push for policies aimed at reduced consumption if you really don't give a gently caress about future generations or even your own life a few decades from now. I think I've made a post or two in this thread about this rear end in a top hat before, but I know a guy who would legitimately rather see the world burn than give up even the tiniest aspects of his comfortable life. He's kind of extreme in his blunt dickishness, but I'm willing to bet a lot of people have similar feelings deep down.
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Jan 18, 2017 16:52
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That's kinda it, yea. I don't see any value in giving up any of the comforts of my life for a cause that is already 100% lost. There's no "it'll all be okay as long as we work hard towards a positive solution" at this point, that was years and years ago and nobody cared and nothing got done. The political situation of the world with regard to climate change is even more impossible now than it was then. I don't really care what happens to the people of the future that much because they're beyond saving anyways. I just care about what happens to me now and in the near future, or whatever can be salvaged of it.
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Jan 18, 2017 16:56
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Despite my firm belief that we are turbofucked, and the death of industrialized humanity is overwhelmingly for the betterment of the planet and the species we share it with, I still try and educate people close to me with the data. Unfortunately, the usual reaction to a GIF of the Arctic Death Spiral is "Yup, we're boned, oh well. *sips beer*. We're in this mess for the same reason that democracy is in a shambles worldwide: as long as people are cozy and can afford food and drink and circuses, they aren't going to give a half drat about anything else. We've been indoctrinated into passivity in the west to avoid any form of popular revolution, and that isn't going to change until things are so very bad here that we are dying en-masse. You can't change human nature, you're as insane as a climate change denier if you think you can.
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Jan 18, 2017 16:56
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ChairMaster posted:That's kinda it, yea. I don't see any value in giving up any of the comforts of my life for a cause that is already 100% lost. There's no "it'll all be okay as long as we work hard towards a positive solution" at this point, that was years and years ago and nobody cared and nothing got done. The political situation of the world with regard to climate change is even more impossible now than it was then. I don't really care what happens to the people of the future that much because they're beyond saving anyways. I just care about what happens to me now and in the near future, or whatever can be salvaged of it.
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Jan 18, 2017 17:19
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ChairMaster posted:That's kinda it, yea. I don't see any value in giving up any of the comforts of my life for a cause that is already 100% lost. There's no "it'll all be okay as long as we work hard towards a positive solution" at this point, that was years and years ago and nobody cared and nothing got done. The political situation of the world with regard to climate change is even more impossible now than it was then. I don't really care what happens to the people of the future that much because they're beyond saving anyways. I just care about what happens to me now and in the near future, or whatever can be salvaged of it. Literally a locust
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Jan 18, 2017 17:21
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It's also a false dichotomy. Efficiency and other advances allow you to have a smaller carbon footprint without giving up any measurable benefit. Also a lot of large carbon footprint activities are expensive so reducing ones footprint has the advantage saving money which can be redirected in to activities that return higher benefits resulting in a net increase in happiness. When it comes to climate change what needs to happen is just changing behavior of enough people and that can be done by raising awareness. When enough people are informed then they are open to political options not currently viewed as tenable. Adoption of those policies is what will have an actual effect on climate change. But that can't happen until enough people in enough countries change enough hearts and minds.
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Jan 18, 2017 17:24
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ChairMaster posted:That's kinda it, yea. I don't see any value in giving up any of the comforts of my life for a cause that is already 100% lost. There's no "it'll all be okay as long as we work hard towards a positive solution" at this point, that was years and years ago and nobody cared and nothing got done. The political situation of the world with regard to climate change is even more impossible now than it was then. I don't really care what happens to the people of the future that much because they're beyond saving anyways. I just care about what happens to me now and in the near future, or whatever can be salvaged of it. Then I can't for the life of me think of any reason for you to post again, because you have nothing to contribute and no regard for the topic of the thread or any of your fellow humans. Rime posted:Despite my firm belief that we are turbofucked, and the death of industrialized humanity is overwhelmingly for the betterment of the planet and the species we share it with, I still try and educate people close to me with the data. The death of industrialized humanity is absolutely not for the betterment of the planet and life on it. Carbon-emittin industry can suck a lemon, sure, but industry isn't synonymous with carbon emissions, we can have industry without that and we should work towards that wherever possible. But more importantly, at some point the sun will become a giant ball of fire that burns this entire planet to a crisp. Intelligent, industrial life is the only way any singe solitary molecule of life possibly survives in the very long term, when we bring it with us to other celestial bodies. It's either that (doesn't matter how likely or how far in the future this is, it just follows logically), or every single kind of life on earth dies on the planet, for no reason and accomplishing nothing. The hunk of rock called earth will be fine regardless of what we do, we have neither the power to save nor destroy "the planet".
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Jan 18, 2017 17:27
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The most difficult challenge for climate change is that for most humans their happiness is based on consumption and their drive is fueled by desire for material goods. Most of this consumption and these goods are quickly forgotten and tossed aside for the next crumb. This creates a massive amount of carbon one way or another but this consumption is fundamental to our current economic model. So if someone could figure out and implement a new global economic model to replace GDP/consumption that would help a lot.
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Jan 18, 2017 17:28
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cowofwar posted:The most difficult challenge for climate change is that for most humans their happiness is based on consumption and their drive is fueled by desire for material goods. Most of this consumption and these goods are quickly forgotten and tossed aside for the next crumb. This creates a massive amount of carbon one way or another but this consumption is fundamental to our current economic model. Read "Beyond Growth". Addresses this well imo.
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Jan 18, 2017 17:31
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SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:How do I explain to my SO that I don't want to have kids because I'm pretty sure they will live a life much worse than mine, and my life already is poo poo? You can tell them that it's almost unequivocal that the oceans will be dead by 2050, just as your children are entering the prime of their lives, and that combined with the unprecedented human death and suffering that they'll have bear witness to and that will only get worse until the day they die, is simply not the kind of world you wish to inherit to anyone.
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Jan 18, 2017 17:32
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SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:How do I explain to my SO that I don't want to have kids because I'm pretty sure they will live a life much worse than mine, and my life already is poo poo? I mean, you just explain it, why can't you talk to your significant other? Also, don't be surprised when they leave you for someone else who does want to have kids when the time comes.
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