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Party Plane Jones posted:Question is, is her dishonorable discharge going to follow her past the name change (is her name even changed legally yet?) as a practical matter: anyone doing enough research on applicant "chelsea manning" who just submitted a resume to verify the circumstances of their seperation from the military already googled their name and found out exactly what happened
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Jan 18, 2017 21:04
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She's a darling of the left and she's already an opinion writer at the guardian. There's a future for her in advocacy if she wants one.
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Jan 18, 2017 21:04
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Putting aside Manning being transgender, I still don't quite understand why so many conservative citizens have a hate-on for an anti-government whistleblower. If you already distrust the government, shouldn't someone who not only verifies that the government is untrustworthy, but also provides evidence supporting this be an ally, if not a hero?
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Jan 18, 2017 21:06
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If she had leaked dirt about evil liberals instead of are troops she'd be their hero.
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Jan 18, 2017 21:08
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They are incapable of making the connection that "are troops" are gubmint.
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Jan 18, 2017 21:08
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JeffersonClay posted:If she had leaked dirt about evil liberals instead of are troops she'd be their hero. like new conservative hero, Julian Assange
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Jan 18, 2017 21:09
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But ARE TROOPS  are the ones you gotta get your guns ready to defend against during The Purge, right? I'm probably getting my factions confused, but... if you think you need small arms to defend against unconstitutional enforcement of martial law and the final erection of a tyrannical despot, then the people you're prepared to kill are state and federal troops.
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Jan 18, 2017 21:11
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Just remember Ollie North got a high-paying job on Fox News. So Manning won't find it too hard to find a media job.
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Jan 18, 2017 21:11
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POOL IS CLOSED posted:But ARE TROOPS No. Are troops are the good boys. Liberals have a whole other secret army ready to kick in your door.
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Jan 18, 2017 21:12
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bag em and tag em posted:On one hand It's good but on the other she's being released into the wilds of Trump's America as a widely hated trans-person while her civil liberties are in extreme danger of being stripped away in an egregious fashion. I don't imagine her life going in a great direction. I don't imagine she's going to move to Texas. If she lives in Seattle or Brooklyn or somewhere like that she's not going to get spat at in the street. However she's no doubt going to be hounded cruelly by the Paparazzi.
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Jan 18, 2017 21:12
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POOL IS CLOSED posted:But ARE TROOPS This is probably why they're all obsessed with the UN's black helicopters and secret storm troopers.
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Jan 18, 2017 21:13
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She cant go live OVER THERE or she'll be lynched. But if she stays in a liberal haven she'll just be harrassed a lot. Sounds good.
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Jan 18, 2017 21:14
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bag em and tag em posted:No. Are troops are the good boys. Liberals have a whole other secret army ready to kick in your door. I... what? evilweasel posted:This is probably why they're all obsessed with the UN's black helicopters and secret storm troopers. Oh, of course. This army.
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Jan 18, 2017 21:14
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POOL IS CLOSED posted:I... what? Let the cognitive dissonance flow through you and wash away your doubts.
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Jan 18, 2017 21:15
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bag em and tag em posted:She cant go live OVER THERE or she'll be lynched. But if she stays in a liberal haven she'll just be harrassed a lot. Sounds good. Being harassed due to your identity is terrible and all trans people experience it. Unlike most, manning has a platform to fight back in the media and she could probably get paid to do so relatively easily. She's one of the most recognizable trans people in the country and is the perfect person to criticize Trump's coming poo poo show for Trans people.
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Jan 18, 2017 21:21
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JeffersonClay posted:Being harassed due to your identity is terrible and all trans people experience it. Unlike most, manning has a platform to fight back in the media and she could probably get paid to do so relatively easily. She's one of the most recognizable trans people in the country and is the perfect person to criticize Trump's coming poo poo show for Trans people. If by perfect you mean the worst. We could do without a traitor as our loudest advocate to America.
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Jan 18, 2017 21:22
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JeffersonClay posted:Being harassed due to your identity is terrible and all trans people experience it. Unlike most, manning has a platform to fight back in the media and she could probably get paid to do so relatively easily. She's one of the most recognizable trans people in the country and is the perfect person to criticize Trump's coming poo poo show for Trans people. I doubt Trump is going to be trans-friendly, but one of the few minorities he doesn't seem to actively hate are gay people and I sort of assume he's just going to lump trans people into that mental category in his head too.
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Jan 18, 2017 21:25
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Trump is too self-absorbed to give a poo poo but 100% of his lackees and appointees want every trans person in America dead and/or tortured.
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Jan 18, 2017 21:28
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evilweasel posted:I doubt Trump is going to be trans-friendly, but one of the few minorities he doesn't seem to actively hate are gay people and I sort of assume he's just going to lump trans people into that mental category in his head too. He said something supportive of Caitlyn Jenner (a pal of his) once. However, if he feels it will annoy Obama, he's quite capable of hounding an individual transperson to her grave.
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Jan 18, 2017 21:29
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JeffersonClay posted:Trump may grant your silly wish Don't worry you sweet, sweet child, Trump isn't nearly principled enough to do that.
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Jan 18, 2017 21:29
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Thirtysomething republican state governments and attorney general Jeff sessions. Think about the bathroom bills with no federal pushback.
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Jan 18, 2017 21:30
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bag em and tag em posted:Let the cognitive dissonance flow through you and wash away your doubts. I know I probably hold some similarly absurd beliefs that I simply just don't recognize as this batshit when considered side by side, yet... it's hard for me to figure out this perspective. Obama's now commuted more sentences than any previous president. He's granted the relief of presidential clemency to 1,597 people. Yet his administration has prosecuted 8 cases for violations of the 1917 Espionage Act. Only 4 cases were prosecuted under that law before Obama took office. Though he promised more protections for whistleblowers in his '08 campaign, passed the 2012 Whistleblower Protection Enhancement Act, and issued Presidential Policy Directive 19, which extended more protections to intelligence personnel, his 8 years seem to have been unusually brutal in terms of persecuting leaks. What really exacerbates the sense of this heavy-handedness is how unevenly those leaks were punished. Ranking insiders seem to have been shielded (Petraeus, anyone?), but nobodies like Snowden and Manning are publicly sacrificed. I don't know that the 8 years of this administration (if you can really say it's 8 continuous years of one administration, sitting president and veep aside) have actually been harder on whistleblowers, and I don't know if there's a reliable way to measure that, but it sure seems that way. It never feels good to look at your government and see a commitment to protecting wrong-doers by punishing people who thought they were doing the right thing by publicizing misdeeds. I don't expect anything better from the Trump administration or any future administration, but it's also just insulting to see an administration receive eight years of having it both ways -- talking about transparency and justice while delivering little of either. If I've got a beef with President Obama, that's the heart of it. welp that's my story, thanks
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Jan 18, 2017 21:32
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Chomskyan posted:I find it hilarious that to natsec people, the real horror of the Trump presidency is that he may stop bombing wedding parties. As we've seen in Syria, the alternatives for world (or regional) policeman have even less aversion to civilian casualties.
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Jan 18, 2017 21:36
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JeffersonClay posted:As we've seen in Syria, the alternatives for world (or regional) policeman have even less aversion to civilian casualties. Trump doesn't sincerely want to bomb less people. He wants to justify why he's not doing anything when the Russian tanks sweep into Ukraine. He'll bomb just as much as he likes for whatever his *own* war turns out to be.
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Jan 18, 2017 21:38
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TinTower posted:Just remember Ollie North got a high-paying job on Fox News. So Manning won't find it too hard to find a media job. Considering her mental state, it's probably going to take a lot of time and treatment before she's willing to be out in the public eye. I'm sure she could easily be a writer if she chose to do so, but that'll be her choice.
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Jan 18, 2017 21:40
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seiferguy posted:Considering her mental state, it's probably going to take a lot of time and treatment before she's willing to be out in the public eye. I'm sure she could easily be a writer if she chose to do so, but that'll be her choice. She's already written for the Guardian from prison, so I see no reason why she won't when released. https://www.theguardian.com/profile/chelsea-e-manning
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Jan 18, 2017 21:44
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BarbarianElephant posted:Trump doesn't sincerely want to bomb less people. Trump has openly and proudly declared that he is 100% committed to bombing way more people so I don't even know what the argument is from that perspective.
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Jan 18, 2017 21:54
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The Iron Rose posted:If by perfect you mean the worst. We could do without a traitor as our loudest advocate to America. We could do with more Mannings and fewer "respect are flag" military transitioners, hth Also treason has a specific legal definition.
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Jan 18, 2017 21:55
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bag em and tag em posted:Trump has openly and proudly declared that he is 100% committed to bombing way more people so I don't even know what the argument is from that perspective. In this post-truth world, the truth is exactly what the speaker needs to believe at this precise moment. I've heard it from a lot of Trump supporters that they voted Trump because they had been told Clinton planned to lead the USA into war against Russia.
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Jan 18, 2017 21:56
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BarbarianElephant posted:In this post-truth world, the truth is exactly what the speaker needs to believe at this precise moment. Yeah I have heard the war with Russia bit. That's why all this stuff about Trump and his cabinet members having strong Russian ties is good, you see. Now certain death for us all has been averted. China? Never heard of her.
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Jan 18, 2017 21:59
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hillo posted:I knew the genie would grant my wishes if I rubbed out enough. *a finger on the monkey's paw closes*
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Jan 18, 2017 22:09
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POOL IS CLOSED posted:What really exacerbates the sense of this heavy-handedness is how unevenly those leaks were punished. Ranking insiders seem to have been shielded (Petraeus, anyone?), but nobodies like Snowden and Manning are publicly sacrificed. even if you think their leaks were justified there's no comparison regarding the scale of Snowden and Manning's leaks compared to, well, anyone besides Daniel Ellisberg and literal spies
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Jan 18, 2017 22:11
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bag em and tag em posted:On one hand It's good but on the other she's being released into the wilds of Trump's America as a widely hated trans-person while her civil liberties are in extreme danger of being stripped away in an egregious fashion. I don't imagine her life going in a great direction. Should have thought about that before betraying her country. Anyway I get the feeling she'll be feted by naive and stupid people.
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Jan 18, 2017 22:16
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evilweasel posted:even if you think their leaks were justified there's no comparison regarding the scale of Snowden and Manning's leaks compared to, well, anyone besides Daniel Ellisberg and literal spies Snowden is a literal spy/defector.
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Jan 18, 2017 22:16
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hakimashou posted:Should have thought about that before betraying her country. Even if she goes back to prison, there's this little thing called the Eighth Amendment…
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Jan 18, 2017 23:11
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hakimashou posted:Snowden is a literal spy/defector. How so?
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Jan 18, 2017 23:15
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hakimashou posted:Snowden is a literal spy/defector. no
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Jan 18, 2017 23:24
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hakimashou posted:Snowden is a literal spy/defector. It must be cool to be mentally stuck in the Cold War
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Jan 18, 2017 23:27
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hakimashou posted:Snowden is a literal spy/defector. Spying on your poo poo hole country is a moral act homie.
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Jan 18, 2017 23:43
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POOL IS CLOSED posted:I know I probably hold some similarly absurd beliefs that I simply just don't recognize as this batshit when considered side by side, yet... it's hard for me to figure out this perspective. You're confusing two different types of whistleblowing here, and the distinction is really, really important. There are whistleblowers who circumvent the normal chain of command and report suspected misconduct to a higher authority within the government, and there are whistleblowers who believe that something the government is doing is morally wrong and leak it openly to the public. The Whistleblower Protection Act, the Whistleblower Protection Enhancement Act, PPD-19, and other whistleblower protection laws only protect the first kind of whistleblowing - they're meant to protect whistleblowers from being retaliated against by their superiors for reporting problems and misconduct to their supervisors' bosses. There isn't any US law, as far as I'm aware, that protects the second type of whistleblowing - as far as the US government is concerned, going public with classified information is always unacceptable. And honestly, that makes a lot of sense from the government's perspective. If secrecy laws stop applying as soon as someone who looks at the material feels it shouldn't be secret, then secrecy laws might as well not exist. Nobodies get cracked down on harder because there are over four million people with security clearances, which means it's a lot harder to keep watch on the nobodies than the top rankers, so the government makes examples of them because it knows there's no way it can handle a wave of copycat crimes. Now, I realize there are people who think that government secrecy shouldn't exist at all, but that's an entirely separate discussion.
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Jan 18, 2017 23:46
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