Auspol January 2017: relentless incoherence and incompetence.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Auspol January 2017: relentless incoherence and incompetence.

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Amoeba102: Jan 22, 2010

Greg Hunt is the personification of the effect of the Liberal Party policy on Australia. Dude is "wrecker" incarnate. If he were Treasurer he would sink all of Australia's cash on the pokies.

# ? Jan 18, 2017 23:16

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# ? May 24, 2024 13:51

Mills: Jun 13, 2003

Mike Baird just resigned.

# ? Jan 18, 2017 23:17

Solemn Sloth: Jul 11, 2015; Baby you can shout at me,
But you can't need my eyes.

Mills posted:

Mike Baird just resigned.

3 premiers in under 4 years, Liberal chaos. Need the adults back in charge.

# ? Jan 18, 2017 23:20

Recoome: Nov 9, 2013; Matter of fact, I'm salty now.

WhiskeyWhiskers posted:

Because it's a profession, not a trade so they should shut up and get into line with doctors and set up anti-worker associations instead.

e:gently caress I hate people who think it would be in any way scientific to look at test scores from year to year and from there determine the performance of a teacher.

e2:And as for paying teachers who deal with high needs kids better, start with loving teacher's aides you disingenuous fuckfaced poo poo.

Well I think that you could have an instrument which does in fact compare student outcomes, but it might potentially not account for a) demographic/cohort effects and b)might not adequately control for "teaching to the test". The problem I have with standardised testing in schools is this weird cultural aversion to proper interpretation/administration of the tests, as well as acknowledging the (many) limitations of testing.

If we want to talk about lovely implementation of tests, in QLD, we have the Queensland Core Skills Exam at the end of Year 12, which is a high-stakes test which basically acts as a comparison between a whole bunch of schools and poo poo, except it can positively/negatively control for cohort. For example, my school basically got no OP 1s for the year I graduated in. A whole bunch of people got really high marks in their regular assessment, but the overall cohort performance dragged everyone's OP score down by 1-2 points (due to the relative performance of the school vs. other schools).

# ? Jan 18, 2017 23:22

Amoeba102: Jan 22, 2010

Either someone has dirt on him or he's going to later move into Fed politics after a break. Surely.

Edit: or he's got a cushy position lined up with the Casinos or something.

# ? Jan 18, 2017 23:23

Recoome: Nov 9, 2013; Matter of fact, I'm salty now.

Should've stuck to your guns on greyhounds, chump

# ? Jan 18, 2017 23:26

You Am I: May 20, 2001; Me @ your poasting

Amoeba102 posted:

Either someone has dirt on him or he's going to later move into Fed politics after a break. Surely.

Edit: or he's got a cushy position lined up with the Casinos or something.

I bet it is the casino

# ? Jan 18, 2017 23:27

Anidav: Feb 25, 2010; ahhh fuck its the rats again

Wait, NSW ALP has a chance now with loving Foley?

Haha you guys are gonna get hosed more than Queensl-
*looks at One Nation in the distance*

Oh gently caress.

# ? Jan 18, 2017 23:32

adamantium|wang: Sep 14, 2003; Missing you

Mike Baird is retiring.

Efb

# ? Jan 18, 2017 23:33

Solemn Sloth: Jul 11, 2015; Baby you can shout at me,
But you can't need my eyes.

Rike Maird is betiring

# ? Jan 18, 2017 23:36

Recoome: Nov 9, 2013; Matter of fact, I'm salty now.

Queensland is like "living under the jackboot of Ol' Joh wasn't so bad"

# ? Jan 18, 2017 23:37

Anidav: Feb 25, 2010; ahhh fuck its the rats again

Recoome posted:

Queensland is like "living under the jackboot of Ol' Joh wasn't so bad"

Also fluoride is poison and gently caress abortion.

# ? Jan 18, 2017 23:39

Recoome: Nov 9, 2013; Matter of fact, I'm salty now.

I wasn't alive but apparently protesting was illegal at some stage in QLD

# ? Jan 18, 2017 23:50

KennyTheFish: Jan 13, 2004

Recoome posted:

Well I think that you could have an instrument which does in fact compare student outcomes, but it might potentially not account for a) demographic/cohort effects and b)might not adequately control for "teaching to the test". The problem I have with standardised testing in schools is this weird cultural aversion to proper interpretation/administration of the tests, as well as acknowledging the (many) limitations of testing.

If we want to talk about lovely implementation of tests, in QLD, we have the Queensland Core Skills Exam at the end of Year 12, which is a high-stakes test which basically acts as a comparison between a whole bunch of schools and poo poo, except it can positively/negatively control for cohort. For example, my school basically got no OP 1s for the year I graduated in. A whole bunch of people got really high marks in their regular assessment, but the overall cohort performance dragged everyone's OP score down by 1-2 points (due to the relative performance of the school vs. other schools).

Standardised tests as a diagnostic tool are great. the PAT, RR etc used systemwide have positive effects, especially for itinerant student populations. using them in aggregate to compare schools is the education equivalent of pushing on a rope. It displays a fundamental lack of understanding about what the gently caress you are doing.

The problem with the "school improvement" narrative is it is all coming attached to ideas that have been demonstrated to be false. Paying the top 10% more is punitive on the remaining 90%; setting up incentive schemes makes people care more about the scheme than underlying performance etc. this is all covered in first year business classes. It is all about Accountability and responsibility without giving the practitioners control. It fundamentally can't work.

# ? Jan 19, 2017 00:00

Recoome: Nov 9, 2013; Matter of fact, I'm salty now.

KennyTheFish posted:

Standardised tests as a diagnostic tool are great. the PAT, RR etc used systemwide have positive effects, especially for itinerant student populations. using them in aggregate to compare schools is the education equivalent of pushing on a rope. It displays a fundamental lack of understanding about what the gently caress you are doing.

The problem with the "school improvement" narrative is it is all coming attached to ideas that have been demonstrated to be false. Paying the top 10% more is punitive on the remaining 90%; setting up incentive schemes makes people care more about the scheme than underlying performance etc. this is all covered in first year business classes. It is all about Accountability and responsibility without giving the practitioners control. It fundamentally can't work.

Yeah exactly, I think the testing idea is great but I find how the data is used is problematic.

# ? Jan 19, 2017 00:05

Kegslayer: Jul 23, 2007

Amoeba102 posted:

Either someone has dirt on him or he's going to later move into Fed politics after a break. Surely.

Edit: or he's got a cushy position lined up with the Casinos or something.

His parents and his sister are apparently pretty ill. I think he's legitimately stepping down for family reasons.

# ? Jan 19, 2017 00:36

do it on my face: Feb 6, 2005; °

Kegslayer posted:

His parents and his sister are apparently pretty ill. I think he's legitimately stepping down for family reasons.

His family need that sweet, sweet casino money too. I don't blame them.

# ? Jan 19, 2017 00:46

Cartoon: Jun 20, 2008; poop

Recoome posted:

I wasn't alive but apparently protesting was illegal at some stage in QLD

Yes

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joh_Bjelke-Petersen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ehx4CZSsojI

Also if you had long hair and NSW plates you would get pulled over and beaten. Touring in SE QLD in the Seventies/Eighties was an extreme sport. The song above was written explicitly because the law basically made band practice illegal.

quote:

1971 state of emergency[edit]
Bjelke-Petersen seized on the controversial visit of the Springboks, the South African rugby union team, in 1971 to consolidate his position as leader with a display of force.[16] The Springboks' matches in southern states had already been disrupted by anti-apartheid demonstrations and a match in Brisbane was scheduled for 24 July 1971, the date of two Queensland by-elections. On 14 July Bjelke-Petersen declared a month-long state of emergency covering the entire state, giving the government almost unlimited power to quell what the government said was expected to be "a climax of violent demonstrations".[16][17][18] Six hundred police were transported to Brisbane from elsewhere in the state.[19] In the week before the match, 40 trade unions staged a 24-hour strike, protesting against the proclamation.* A crowd of demonstrators also mounted a peaceful protest outside the Springboks' Wickham Terrace motel and were chased on foot by police moments after being ordered to retreat, with many police attacking the crowd with batons, boots and fists.[17] It was one a series of violent attacks by police on demonstrators during the Springboks' visit to Queensland.[20] The football game was played to a crowd of 7000 behind a high barbed-wire fence without incident.[16] The state of emergency, which gave the government the appearance of being strong-willed and decisive,[16] helped steer the government to victory in both by-elections held on match day. A Police Special Branch member, Don Lane was one of those elected, becoming a political ally of the Premier.[21] Bjelke-Petersen praised police for their "restraint" during the demonstrations and rewarded the police union for its support with an extra week's leave for every officer in the state.[19] Bjelke-Petersen later described the tension over of the Springboks' tour as "great fun, a game of chess in the political arena". The crisis, he said, "put me on the map".[22]

So the Po Po bully boys were called in to defend the Springboks during international efforts to exclude all South African sporting teams.

quote:

Restriction of civil liberties, growth of police power[edit]
Issues of police powers and civil liberties, first raised at the time of the 1971 Springboks tour, resurfaced in July 1976 with a major street demonstration in which more than a thousand university students marched towards the Brisbane city centre to demand better allowances from the federal government. Police stopped the march in Coronation Drive and television cameras captured an incident during the confrontation in which a police inspector struck a 20-year-old female protester over the head with his baton, injuring her. When Police Commissioner Ray Whitrod announced he would hold an inquiry, a move supported by Police Minister Max Hodges, Bjelke-Petersen declared there would be no inquiry. He told reporters he was tired of radical groups believing they could take over the streets. Police officers passed a motion at a meeting commending the premier for his "distinct stand against groups acting outside the law" and censured Whitrod. A week later Bjelke-Petersen relieved Hodges of his police portfolio.[35][36] Secure in the knowledge that they had the Premier's backing, police officers continued to act provocatively, most notably in a military-style raid on a hippie commune at the Cedar Bay commune in Far North Queensland late the following month.[37] The police, who had been looking for marijuana, set fire to the residents' houses and destroyed their property.

quote:

In 1977, Bjelke-Petersen announced that "the day of street marches is over", warning protesters: "Don't bother applying for a march permit. You won't get one. That's government policy now!"[39] Liberal parliamentarians crossed the floor defending the right of association and assembly.[40] One Liberal MP, Colin Lamont, told a meeting at the University of Queensland that the premier was engineering confrontation for electoral purposes and was confronted two hours later by an angry Bjelke-Petersen who said he was aware of the comments. Lamont later said he learned the Special Branch had been keeping files on Liberal rebels and reporting, not to their Commissioner, but directly to the Premier, commenting: "The police state had arrived."[40] When, after two ugly street battles between police and right-to-march protesters, the Uniting Church Synod called on the government to change the march law, Bjelke-Petersen accused the clergy of "supporting communists". His attack sparked a joint political statement by four other major religious denominations, which was shrugged off by the premier.[33]

This is what should be in the Australian History curriculum. The history of the Union movement, for better or worse. It is utterly fascinating, gives insights into the Australian political psyche and nobody knows poo poo about it. Remember Rothbury?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rothbury_riot Po Po shoot indiscriminately at a bunch of unarmed miners killing Norman Brown.

* Strike action that today would be illegal.

# ? Jan 19, 2017 00:53

aejix: Sep 18, 2007; It's about finding that next group of core players we can win with in the next 6, 8, 10 years. Let's face it, it's hard for 20-, 21-, 22-year-olds to lead an NHL team. Look at the playoffs.

That quote is from fucking 2018. Fuck you Jim; Pillbug

Kegslayer posted:

His parents and his sister are apparently pretty ill. I think he's legitimately stepping down for family reasons.

I wish i could share your lack of cynicism. He'll reappear as a lobbyist/consultant within 12 months guaranteed.

# ? Jan 19, 2017 01:14

SHALASHASKA HAWKE: Nov 10, 2016; No child soldier in poverty by 1990

aejix posted:

I wish i could share your lack of cynicism. He'll reappear as a lobbyist/consultant within 12 months guaranteed.

It can be both. It's been discussed openly for a while that Baird didn't want to spend a long time in office and that he'd be more comfortable in whichever private sector lurk comes up.

Anidav posted:

Wait, NSW ALP has a chance now with loving Foley?

Haha you guys are gonna get hosed more than Queensl-
*looks at One Nation in the distance*

Oh gently caress.

This is probably bad for NSW ALP. "Casino Mike" was a lightning rod for negative sentiment. Now they're going to have to figure out an actual platform to run on.

# ? Jan 19, 2017 01:35

Doctor Spaceman: Jul 6, 2010; "Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."

Who's the expected replacement, Gladys?

SLASHER HAWKE posted:

It can be both. It's been discussed openly for a while that Baird didn't want to spend a long time in office and that he'd be more comfortable in whichever private sector lurk comes up.

A consultant or lobbyist job is going to be a lot lower stress than Premier too.

# ? Jan 19, 2017 01:41

Brown Paper Bag: Nov 3, 2012

ewe2 posted:

OK, look I was wrong.

https://twitter.com/davidbewart/status/821677824503386113

Turns out he really can gently caress Health up.

Where had Hunt advocated for a more American system?

# ? Jan 19, 2017 01:43

Amoeba102: Jan 22, 2010

The suddenness of it seemed to point to scandal or illness. I'm just an optimist so was hoping for it to be scandal related.

# ? Jan 19, 2017 01:44

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

Brown Paper Bag posted:

Where had Hunt advocated for a more American system?

I don't know if this is what he was referring to, but from his maiden speech:

quote:

http://www.greghunt.com.au/AboutGreg/MaidenSpeech.aspx
I believe that there are also five key social imperatives facing Australia over the next 20 years. The first is building on the achievements of the last six years, which have seen private health care coverage make the extraordinary leap from 30 per cent of Australians in 1998 to 45 per cent of Australians in 2001.

The next expansion in private health coverage is, I believe, through employer incentives for the inclusion of health care in workplace arrangements�perhaps through creative ways of excluding employer health care from the fringe benefits tax regime. The result of this, the freeing of resources which private health care generates�it is not about some special system of privilege, it is about freeing resources for the rest of society�will allow even greater funding to be directed to our elderly, who, as the then new member for Bennelong said in his first speech in 1974�when, incidentally, I was eight years old�`face the twin threats of loneliness and alienation�. The same threats and challenges are with us today.

# ? Jan 19, 2017 01:49

Doctor Spaceman: Jul 6, 2010; "Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."

Brown Paper Bag posted:

Where had Hunt advocated for a more American system?

His maiden speech.

The Minister for Rhyming Slang posted:

The next expansion in private health coverage is, I believe, through employer incentives for the inclusion of health care in workplace arrangements�perhaps through creative ways of excluding employer health care from the fringe benefits tax regime. The result of this, the freeing of resources which private health care generates�it is not about some special system of privilege, it is about freeing resources for the rest of society�will allow even greater funding to be directed to our elderly,

# ? Jan 19, 2017 01:50

aejix: Sep 18, 2007; It's about finding that next group of core players we can win with in the next 6, 8, 10 years. Let's face it, it's hard for 20-, 21-, 22-year-olds to lead an NHL team. Look at the playoffs.

That quote is from fucking 2018. Fuck you Jim; Pillbug

SLASHER HAWKE posted:

It can be both. It's been discussed openly for a while that Baird didn't want to spend a long time in office and that he'd be more comfortable in whichever private sector lurk comes up.

Yeah agree totally. I did type out "he's just using their sickness as a convenient excuse for him to gently caress off to the private sector because there's either a really sweet gig on offer or theres a corruption shitstorm coming that not even that silver tongued loving snake can slither his way out of" but felt a bit lovely saying that. Incidentally, feeling lovely about saying those sorts of things presumably excludes you from ever becoming a career politican

# ? Jan 19, 2017 01:55

Wrestlepig: Feb 25, 2011; my mum says im cool; Toilet Rascal

I wouldn't expect too much to come of it. One Nation are psychos but this isn't their style, and nobody else would potentially support it.

# ? Jan 19, 2017 02:03

Anidav: Feb 25, 2010; ahhh fuck its the rats again

'I think it’s great': Peter Dutton praises Australia Day billboard featuring Muslim girls

Oh no, a ghost has possessed Peter Dutton and he's speaking in tongues!

# ? Jan 19, 2017 02:28

Anidav: Feb 25, 2010; ahhh fuck its the rats again

Waaaaagh let them in, let them in!
*projectile vomits over Scott Morrison *

# ? Jan 19, 2017 02:31

SMILLENNIALSMILLEN: Jun 26, 2009

I had a dream the other night that Scott Morrison was on the news face down on a hospital bed and the newsreader was saying his family are saying their tearful goodbyes then I explained to a person in my dream that even monsters have families

# ? Jan 19, 2017 02:50

Rougey: Oct 24, 2013

Doctor Spaceman posted:

Who's the expected replacement, Gladys?

Yep.

I'll be surprised if anyone tries to contest it.

# ? Jan 19, 2017 03:13

ewe2: Jul 1, 2009

KennyTheFish posted:

Standardised tests as a diagnostic tool are great. the PAT, RR etc used systemwide have positive effects, especially for itinerant student populations. using them in aggregate to compare schools is the education equivalent of pushing on a rope. It displays a fundamental lack of understanding about what the gently caress you are doing.

The problem with the "school improvement" narrative is it is all coming attached to ideas that have been demonstrated to be false. Paying the top 10% more is punitive on the remaining 90%; setting up incentive schemes makes people care more about the scheme than underlying performance etc. this is all covered in first year business classes. It is all about Accountability and responsibility without giving the practitioners control. It fundamentally can't work.

Its the biases in the choice of variables particularly. They always bias the richer/more resourced/private than poorer/less resourced/public. This happened fairly deliberately in two cases, the K-12 sector and the tertiary sector in America. In K-12 it targets teachers and guess what happens. They leave, they cheat or they go to the private school sector which doesn't use the instrument (how's that for a guilt-free win). With tertiary, the standard is accidental, written by journalists and has acquired force simply by the competition it generated (the magazine which started it is now a ratings business). Same general result, but the twist is attracting better students not teachers. This has gutted the midrange universities who can't compete on price or facilities, same kind of cheating goes on and at the bottom, predatory degree-farms. Too bad you can't afford good schooling in America, and the really bad part is that this lets the people who should be managing those sectors off the hook because no one questions the algorithm. Coming to Australia.

# ? Jan 19, 2017 03:37

PaletteSwappedNinja: Jun 3, 2008; One Nation, Under God.

You Am I posted:

Hunt went on a huge spiel that he knows about healthcare because his mother and wife are/were nurses. Yeah, okay, but you're still a Liberal scum who wants to see Medicare stripped back, if it isn't killed off entirely.

He wrote a thesis on carbon taxation but had no problem closing the Climate Commission and letting people irrevocably gently caress the Great Barrier Reef and all manner of destructive horseshit, gently caress him even more.

# ? Jan 19, 2017 06:04