|
Taitale posted:Chelsea Manning is getting her sentence commuted. This is good. It isn't the pardon I would have liked to see, but it recognizes that her sentencing was woefully over-reaching to try and make an example for anyone else tempted to leak documents. Too bad years in solitary as well as untreated gender issues because the military 'didn't know how' to treat them are going to mean she's got a long road to being any kind of productive member of society ever again. Solitary confinement really messes with people.
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2017 09:15
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 13, 2024 23:22 |
|
|
Liquid Communism posted:This is good. It isn't the pardon I would have liked to see, but it recognizes that her sentencing was woefully over-reaching to try and make an example for anyone else tempted to leak documents. That's because it is torture. Call it what it is.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2017 10:11
|
|
|
Liquid Communism posted:Too bad years in solitary as well as untreated gender issues because the military 'didn't know how' to treat them are going to mean she's got a long road to being any kind of productive member of society ever again. Solitary confinement really messes with people. On the other hand, she's a famous whistleblower, will be even more famous because Obama's commuting her sentence, and for better or worse is one of the most high-profile transgender people in the United States. If she wants to, she can make a profitable career out of writing and public speaking. The kind of profit that helps a lot with a successful transition. What happened to her sucks, and I'm not trying to downplay it at all, but she's got better prospects than the majority of American transwomen for the foreseeable future.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2017 10:28
|
|
|
Liquid Communism posted:This is good. It isn't the pardon I would have liked to see, but it recognizes that her sentencing was woefully over-reaching to try and make an example for anyone else tempted to leak documents. Agreed. It helped her case that she'd admitted what she did and stood trial for it, something we in theory want to encourage rather than fleeing to Russia or wherever. Of course, her greatest sin was unintentionally making the career of rapist stooge Julian Assange, but hindsight is 20/20 on that one.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2017 12:40
|
|
|
Taitale posted:That's because it is torture. Call it what it is. You'll not get any objection from me there.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2017 12:41
|
|
|
Pertinent to the case, I think, is that the court admitted the leaks did not endanger any military personnel - how the hell can you be locked away half your life for embarassing the military?
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2017 13:34
|
|
|
Tias posted:Pertinent to the case, I think, is that the court admitted the leaks did not endanger any military personnel - how the hell can you be locked away half your life for embarassing the military? Very easily
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2017 13:35
|
|
|
Being a jew 100 years ago probably didn't help him either, but it seems the military wanted to nick Chelsea even before they and the media destroyed her character.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2017 13:49
|
|
|
Tias posted:Pertinent to the case, I think, is that the court admitted the leaks did not endanger any military personnel - how the hell can you be locked away half your life for embarassing the military? Don't forget that the prosecution was still pushing all the way into the trial for a conviction on 'aiding the enemy' which carries a possible death sentence, despite her willingness to enter a guilty plea. Oh, and outright made up "wantonly causing to be published on the internet intelligence belonging to the US government, having knowledge that intelligence published on the internet is accessible to the enemy" as a new offense to charge her with.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2017 13:54
|
|
|
Glazier posted:So how is everyone going to spend their last day of freedom tomorrow? I was thinking of hitting up the shooting range, just to get ready for when they come for us on Friday. I'm stuck working. So when they come for me I'll be too exhausted. Probably part of their insidious plot. Wish I could take tomorrow off to panic watch but I can't. Maybe I'll do something stupid like buying myself some alcohol. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2017 14:58
|
|
|
Eimi posted:I'm stuck working. So when they come for me I'll be too exhausted. Probably part of their insidious plot. Wish I could take tomorrow off to panic watch but I can't. Maybe I'll do something stupid like buying myself some alcohol. If you know it's stupid, then don't. Also, if this is a recurring thing for you, pop by the addiction and recovery thread, we're friendly folks 
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2017 15:20
|
|
|
wizard on a water slide posted:On the other hand, she's a famous whistleblower... Indiscriminantly downloading hundreds of thousands of files and dumping them off to a russian stooge does not make you a whistleblower nor does it afford you any whistleblower protections. Snowden arguably is a whistleblower. Manning just threw a fit and gave a bunch of classified docs to a rapist in a "gently caress you, dad!" moment because Manning was pissy about the job they volunteered for. Tias posted:You do not, at least not in the company of your many gay friends, who go out of their way to wistfully state how they wish they could stop loving their own sex when it becomes socially unacceptable to do so. And before you go "well, that's just like, your opinion man", I can only talk about my own life, not whatever constellations of privilege some far-removed academic type has dreamed up for me. What are you even trying to say? That you don't get treated like every other straight couple in the world because you have a few gay friends give you poo poo? What about when you and your girlfriend want to get married. Is anyone ever going to refuse to bake you a cake? Thats what they mean by access to hetero priv is that when you're in an opposite sex relationship society at large will treat you just like every other one. Getting poo poo from your gay friends because they want your dick/rear end instead of you being with someone else does not negate how the world at large treats a M/F couple compared to any other.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2017 15:31
|
|
|
Tias posted:If you know it's stupid, then don't. Also, if this is a recurring thing for you, pop by the addiction and recovery thread, we're friendly folks I barely ever drink actually. I think it's stupid more because I'm scared of it due to an alcoholic parent. And the whole logic that I really want to get blackout drunk, which is an idea I have, so it's bad.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2017 15:32
|
|
|
Mr. Nice! posted:Indiscriminantly downloading hundreds of thousands of files and dumping them off to a russian stooge does not make you a whistleblower nor does it afford you any whistleblower protections. She, and kindly go gently caress yourself. Like literally everything you've posted is absolute, barely mitigated garbage, on almost every subject in this thread. You're free to go back to the closet if you want some of that "sweet bi privilege" you can't shut the gently caress up about.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2017 15:32
|
|
|
Agnosticnixie posted:She, and kindly go gently caress yourself. I edited the post before you responded because i didnt want to derail with misgendering.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2017 15:34
|
|
|
Eimi posted:I'm stuck working. So when they come for me I'll be too exhausted. Probably part of their insidious plot. Wish I could take tomorrow off to panic watch but I can't. Maybe I'll do something stupid like buying myself some alcohol. My anxiety is getting worse and worse every day. Maybe I'll masturbate, watch CW dramadies, and eat a bunch of chocolate. Not at the same time, though. That would be weird. I've said more than once to my wife that I really wish I could get drunk right about now. But alcohol interacts with a couple of my meds so that's right out. Is there like a support group forum for people who have no idea how to handle the entire government being run by people who hate that you exist? I honestly don't know how I am going to make it four years without my heart exploding.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2017 15:34
|
|
|
Aleph Null posted:My anxiety is getting worse and worse every day. Maybe I'll masturbate, watch CW dramadies, and eat a bunch of chocolate. Not at the same time, though. That would be weird. I could use that too. Also a group to get some hope that we will ever repair the damage.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2017 15:37
|
|
|
Agnosticnixie posted:She, and kindly go gently caress yourself. Like literally everything you've posted is absolute, barely mitigated garbage, on almost every subject in this thread. You went and edited again to throw another insult at me for no real reason, so I'm responding even though you weren't a part of the conversation. I'm sorry to throw a dose of reality on you, but that's the way it is. There's nothing to do with being in or out of the closet. If someone is in an opposite sex relationship they are treated by the world at large exactly the same as every other opposite sex relationship. I don't know what is so hard to grasp about this. On the manning thing, it was accidental and I corrected it before it could even come up with an edit notice. Manning's trans status has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that they were throwing a temper tantrum like a child (and had been disciplined previously for such tantrums) and the mass dumping of intelligence documents, diplomatic cables, etc is not whistleblowing. It was a temper tantrum thrown by someone unhappy they were doing a job they volunteered to do.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2017 15:44
|
|
|
^^^ Still doing it. Please don't. The word you're looking for is "she". Mr. Nice! posted:I edited the post before you responded because i didnt want to derail with misgendering. And chose to play the pronoun game, I noticed. Been a while since I've seen someone do that online - outside of people still in the closet to family/friends. Doing it on the internet to someone you know identifies as a woman is something that belongs in the past.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2017 15:45
|
|
|
I was told gender neutral pronouns are always acceptable. You're focusing on the wrong part. I don't care about her status. That doesn't matter. She isn't a whistleblower.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2017 15:47
|
|
|
Mr. Nice! posted:I was told gender neutral pronouns are always acceptable. You're focusing on the wrong part. I don't care about her status. That doesn't matter. She isn't a whistleblower. Collateral Murder says otherwise. But that's the wrong thread to be a natsec pissbaby anyway. Also you're going for gender neutral pronouns after loving up and being corrected, so it comes off as mildly insincere.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2017 15:50
|
|
|
If you don't know what someone wants to be called. If you know I am a woman(I am) using gender neutral pronouns reduces me to a thing. It's gross.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2017 15:51
|
|
|
Agnosticnixie posted:Collateral Murder says otherwise. But that's the wrong thread to be a natsec pissbaby anyway. I corrected it before anyone pointed it out. If you notice there's no edited by notification at the bottom of my post. I immediately changed them after I re-read my post. I was phone posting and didn't see it until afterwards, which is why I quickly corrected it to avoid this stupid derail.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2017 15:55
|
|
|
Mr. Nice! posted:On the manning thing, it was accidental and I corrected it before it could even come up with an edit notice. Manning's trans status has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that they were throwing a temper tantrum like a child (and had been disciplined previously for such tantrums) and the mass dumping of intelligence documents, diplomatic cables, etc is not whistleblowing. It was a temper tantrum thrown by someone unhappy they were doing a job they volunteered to do. Do you really want to get into that debate in this forum? Chelsea was suffering from gender dysphoria and it was wrecking her life, yes that is true. But she considered what she was doing her patriotic duty, to expose to the rest of the country and the world that the United States was violating the very ideals it claims to uphold. Who'd believe the scope of it the audacity of it, without proof? Anyway, she wasn't pardoned. The decision was made that the time she's spent, much of it in solitary confinement and suicide watch, has been sufficient punishment for her crime. It doesn't matter what you call it at this point except for the paperwork.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2017 15:57
|
|
|
Eimi posted:If you don't know what someone wants to be called. If you know I am a woman(I am) using gender neutral pronouns reduces me to a thing. It's gross. GLAAD via AP has always suggested that when you're unsure of the individuals personal pronoun preference, to use the one consistent with the way the individuals live publicly. I think generally people are well-meaning if they use gender neutral pronouns, but it's a good perspective to have, so thanks.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2017 15:59
|
|
|
Mr nice, your A loving rear end in a top hat. She also got thrown under the bus by her chain of command even though it was obvious she was having issues and shouldn't be there.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2017 16:01
|
|
|
So much for trying to have discussion about the matter. Everyone just jumps to attacking me for a mistake that i tried to correct before anyone had even seen it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2017 16:07
|
|
|
Mr. Nice! posted:So much for trying to have discussion about the matter. Everyone just jumps to attacking me for a mistake that i tried to correct before anyone had even seen it. To be fair your opinions on the subject proper are also broadly terrible so it's like there was much redeemable. The military literally admitted that nobody directly suffered from the leaks, and Collateral Murder is how AP found out why their journalists were dropping like flies and oh oops it's the US military killing them sorry. A whistle was blown. She got the heaviest sentence handed for something related to Iraq, that includes the flunkies who got sentenced for Abu Ghraib for a third as long as her and who barely served half of it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2017 16:11
|
|
|
Whistleblowing is calling out a specific item and reporting it to an independent body (such as the inspector general, congress, the US press, etc). It is not downloading everything classifiec you can willy nilly and giving it all to a russian stooge.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2017 16:17
|
|
|
I'm not even talking about the gender stuff, I'm talking about the classified info released. You don't know what you're talking about.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2017 16:20
|
|
|
Mr. Nice! posted:So much for trying to have discussion about the matter. Everyone just jumps to attacking me for a mistake that i tried to correct before anyone had even seen it. Well the thread is in Debate and Discussion so you had to have known what would happen if you went against the group consensus. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2017 16:21
|
|
|
Mr. Nice! posted:Whistleblowing is calling out a specific item and reporting it to an independent body (such as the inspector general, congress, the US press, etc). WikiLeaks was not the controversial powerhouse it seems to be today. It was still new and tentatively respected. It wasn't yet evident how much of a narcissistic creep Assange is. And when you try to use the chain of command and they tell you to shut up and sit down, you have no choice but to go outside. And, as I said, it doesn't matter what we call it now. The President decided that she's served enough of her sentence. The debt will have been paid.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2017 16:21
|
|
|
Why did all the people she worked with who saw her violating OPSEC not do anything about it and not get punished?
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2017 16:23
|
|
|
Tias posted:how the hell can you be locked away half your life for embarassing the military? Both Manning and Dreyfus were in the military. Both were accused of secrets-ish / espionage-ish crimes. Both cases became causes célèbres. That's about as far as the commonality goes. Liquid Communism posted:Don't forget that the prosecution was still pushing all the way into the trial for a conviction on 'aiding the enemy' which carries a possible death sentence, despite her willingness to enter a guilty plea. Oh, and outright made up "wantonly causing to be published on the internet intelligence belonging to the US government, having knowledge that intelligence published on the internet is accessible to the enemy" as a new offense to charge her with.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2017 16:28
|
|
|
As a white person and a person who has benefited from male privilege (that sweet white male privilege) I think we should consider whether Chelsea Manning is fair game for attacks on her character and to what degree these attacks ought be generalized onto all transwoman.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2017 16:44
|
|
|
Tias posted:If you know it's stupid, then don't. Also, if this is a recurring thing for you, pop by the addiction and recovery thread, we're friendly folks Eh were all dead, so why not.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2017 19:34
|
|
|
Eimi posted:I barely ever drink actually. I think it's stupid more because I'm scared of it due to an alcoholic parent. And the whole logic that I really want to get blackout drunk, which is an idea I have, so it's bad. You could settle for sing song drunk and cry a lot, I think that's the slightly more respectable alternative to blackout drunk while still being an entirely appropriate response.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2017 19:36
|
|
|
Mr. Nice! posted:
1)  2) Bi erasure is a real thing. 3) Gay people are not sex monsters. 4) Did you know bi men and women have higher rates of depression, anxiety, and suicide than gay men and lesbians? Must be all the hetero privilege!
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2017 19:45
|
|
|
MaxxBot posted:I'm not trying to deny that gay white men have privilege, I'm just taking issue with some of the specific attitudes displayed in that article. I've read plenty of articles on intersectionality in the LGBT community that do not make all sorts of absurd, unfounded claims like this guy does. So you also believe that of the15- 25% of gays that voted for Trump, they were very likely to be white gay men, but you feel targeted because the author didn't back up your shared gut feeling with statistics? Also the article brings up several gay conservative leaders and organizations that aren't Milo. So there are at least three or four white gay men in the FYGM Trump camp, and one heads an organization of like minded individuals implying more. It's basically just saying gay conservatism exists, backed up with voting percentages, prominent members, and organizations, and that they're likely to be white and male because conservatives are likely to be white and male.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2017 19:58
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 13, 2024 23:22 |
|
|
stone cold posted:1) hetero privilege is having to explain to cis-female partners that no i'm not gonna dump them to suck some dick out the blue
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2017 20:01
|
|