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Gildiss posted:OK fine so no cursing at the code. Many people who complain violently about others writing bad code also are part of the problem. They maintain undocumented self standards, horde knowledge, or just have a blindly charitable view of how understandable their own code. Terrible PMs and Managers are hard to deal with, but it's a two way street, if your way of engaging with it is to curse them rather than constructively reach a point where you 'can' work with them, you're not exactly helping things. The problem is people are conflict averse and often prefer to let issues fester and feel unrecoverable, because that's the pace at which this stuff happens. Again, in my old work, (maritime), poo poo could turn sideways in seconds, but the way you mitigate that: - strong sense of routine and safe working practices - strong lines of communication, formalised where critical - proactive conflict resolution, immediately resolved without delay In a way the higher standards actually make the environment much more relaxed, because nothing is left unsaid, which is usually the root of conflict, poo poo left unsaid due to people choosing not to embrace conflict as a natural state that can be worked through. Of course, if discrimination or harassment are in the mix that can be different, but again the culture of suppressing conflict merely amplifies the effects.
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Jan 12, 2017 14:35
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I never actually curse at people. I just curse at the code and the process. And the business when they're not present. Just really tired of having to search for new jobs when yet another project becomes a complete dumpster fire due to absolutely incompetent management. And these are large corporations. Like the current one is getting the mythical man month treatment at the moment and it will be an absolute failure as far as delivery dates are concerned all thanks to an exec promising more than can be delivered. Gildiss fucked around with this message at 14:49 on Jan 12, 2017 |
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Jan 12, 2017 14:47
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Maluco Marinero posted:Eh, honestly I think it's a sign of unoriginality and a lack of vocabulary/communication skills, than any sort of philosophical stand. Swearing all the time is just such low effort. You've clearly never heard me swear. I've got technique.
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Jan 12, 2017 16:29
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To be fair most of my cursing is generally at our loving poo poo IT equipment, or Outlook.
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Jan 12, 2017 16:54
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People have different communication styles. I'm way more annoyed by people who pontificate, especially in meetings, than people who curse. My main issue with cursing is when it comes from serial complainers who don't fix anything.
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Jan 12, 2017 17:46
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I kinda enjoy hearing my data scientist coworker occasionally completely flip out over our software update process. "WHY THE gently caress DO I NEED THE loving WINDOWS ADMIN loving PASSWORD TO INSTALL loving MYSQL INSIDE MY OWN loving VMWARE?" Couldn't have said it better myself.
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Jan 12, 2017 18:21
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My cursing is more of the The Wire "gently caress" scene variety than cursing at someone or a client.
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Jan 12, 2017 19:22
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Slash posted:Surely not using swearwords reduces your vocabulary; by definition you are using fewer words. lifg posted:"WHY THE gently caress DO I NEED THE loving WINDOWS ADMIN loving PASSWORD TO INSTALL loving MYSQL INSIDE MY OWN loving VMWARE?"
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Jan 12, 2017 19:44
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Swearing can also be a team inclusion thing. Eg. if you don't swear when upper management or other departments are around but within your own team you do. A group can show they trust or accept you if they're willing to swear in your presence where they wouldn't otherwise.
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Jan 12, 2017 20:05
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I highly recommend The Mythical Man-Month for a read. Some parts can be a bit dated as it was written in 1975, but it rings so true and I work in hell please save me.
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Jan 14, 2017 01:24
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Gildiss posted:I highly recommend The Mythical Man-Month for a read. Some parts can be a bit dated as it was written in 1975, but it rings so true and I work in hell please save me. No, that's pretty normal in large corporate companies (autocompletion said corpse though and it's probably more right). Oh, you just need more resources? No problem, will keep em coming until we get restructured for failing to deliver.
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Jan 14, 2017 01:52
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I'm not really looking for advice, just ranting. I've been working part time with a junior dev on a somewhat complicated feature over the past year or so. It has a complex workflow, and lots of moving pieces behind the scenes. We didn't really have a spec to design against, but I did make a push to design as much as we could before coding, and I think we were pretty successful given how little we had to go on. Anyway, after putting an initial release into production, we got a ton of negative feedback from users. It all essentially came down to "old" data: the users were really bothered by old data hanging around on one page, and getting in the way of new, relevant data. So, we went back to the whiteboard and designed a way to purge the old data. And presto, the user complaints dropped off, and for a few solid months, things seemed to be all good in the hood. Until this week. My boss got a wild hair about this purging of old data and how it may cause the users to need to take an extra step in the already complicated workflow. But I am pretty in tune with our users, I know what's bugging them because I have made buddies with them, and I create tickets for things they want. No one has complained about this. Moreover, the boss's solutions are more of his favorite thing: delimited strings. Taking a snippet from one of my earlier posts, just to refresh your memory: code:
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Jan 14, 2017 06:06
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baquerd posted:No, that's pretty normal in large corporate companies (autocompletion said corpse though and it's probably more right).
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Jan 14, 2017 17:43
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That's why you want to be cautious and wary when a company tells you they're undergoing a hiring boom. There's no way those jobs will stick around long term.
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Jan 15, 2017 18:41
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App admins keep breaking our server and blaming us. Hey, we haven't changed any code or configuration in two weeks, what the gently caress am I supposed to do with this stack trace that is not referencing any of our code.
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Jan 17, 2017 23:07
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The project I'm on now is such an amazing loving mess. We just had a sprint grooming that went nowhere because the lead developer wasn't present but has his fingers in every piece, and we don't know what the status of all his tickets are. My stuff is assigned to me, technically, but is 99% blocked by some tweaks or individual changes and PRs said developer is applying to my code ( ). The same is happening with our visualizations developer who wasn't even aware of how we go pull requests or what they even are.Nobody knows who owns what piece of work or what components in this project, and multiple times now I've had the lead developer switch out my codebases out from under me, so now I'm all confused from the near-identical codebases that are rapidly diverging in content. The requirements are vague and confusingly specified and the design people keep switching between favoring an Invision prototype and the requirement docs on the wiki. We've only now ditched our "serve React components wrapped in xtag components over a versioned CDN" approach when someone from outside our team looked at it and went  . The project managers and design people are getting really pissed off at us devs to the point of getting kinda snippy with us in stand-up. That's super fun.This is going down a bad path and I have no idea what to do about it. 
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Jan 18, 2017 21:47
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Pollyanna posted:The project I'm on now is such an amazing loving mess. We just had a sprint grooming that went nowhere because the lead developer wasn't present but has his fingers in every piece, and we don't know what the status of all his tickets are. My stuff is assigned to me, technically, but is 99% blocked by some tweaks or individual changes and PRs said developer is applying to my code ( Find someone weaker/newer on the team who you can blame for everything, and weather the storm. Or  . Probably the latter, if you want to be a happy, functioning member of society.
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Jan 18, 2017 21:58
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Whatever you do, keep telling the story as it unfolds! For some reason I find it really satisfying to read about how other offices (don't) work
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Jan 18, 2017 22:00
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My team has been doing agile for 4 years. Each agile activity is spent arguing about the process. 
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Jan 18, 2017 22:26
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I thought this was a good read on the frontend activities before stuff ends up in the backlog, and how this process is hosed in a lot of orgs. https://gerardchiva.com/2017/01/14/the-fuzzy-front-end/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
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Jan 18, 2017 22:48
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rt4 posted:Whatever you do, keep telling the story as it unfolds! For some reason I find it really satisfying to read about how other offices (don't) work
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Jan 18, 2017 22:49
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Vulture Culture posted:I thought this was a good read on the frontend activities before stuff ends up in the backlog, and how this process is hosed in a lot of orgs. Yeah, I've had this experience when contracting for larger orgs, especially when working with outside teams. A ticket will come up but we have a question for sales / legal / etc and it will hold up the process indefinitely. Who knows how many things never even got to the dev team? This is why it's really important for PMs to constantly be reviewing the backlog - if you can catch missing pieces of idea development before it hits the devs, you can potentially save weeks of time.
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Jan 19, 2017 01:57
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So I'm reading through this RFP...
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Jan 19, 2017 08:10
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Messyass posted:So I'm reading through this RFP... "Double whatever we come up with"
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Jan 19, 2017 12:14
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Messyass posted:So I'm reading through this RFP... Clients definition of Agile = We don't have to work hard to come up with requirements.
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Jan 19, 2017 13:58
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Gounads posted:Clients definition of Agile = We don't have to work hard to come up with requirements. Try renaming them to "wants" and get them to be specific about that?
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Jan 19, 2017 17:16
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Skandranon posted:Try renaming them to "wants" and get them to be specific about that? We got back from talking with the business and everything is required, priority 1.
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Jan 19, 2017 17:21
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Messyass posted:So I'm reading through this RFP... Oh neat are you us a year ago? "Make us this thing. Here's a bunch of use cases. What's a requirement?" Look forward to: hilarious scope creep, hilarious deadline expectations, not hilariously having to manage the aforementioned. I mean, we're making it happen, and we're making truckloads of money from it, but god drat has the process been miserable.
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Jan 19, 2017 17:24
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The way I see it you really can't win with this sort of thing. You're always going to have a conflict over what exactly was agreed upon. Best case you come out ahead but you've got a pissed off customer, worst case you're bleeding money.
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Jan 19, 2017 18:58
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I feel like I'm the vein of the 'you can't have ethical consumerism in capitalism' image, we need a 'you can't have agile fixed scope'. It just doesn't fuggin exist mate.
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Jan 19, 2017 19:12
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Alternately, you can have a fixed scope or fixed date.
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Jan 19, 2017 19:16
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Messyass posted:The way I see it you really can't win with this sort of thing. You're always going to have a conflict over what exactly was agreed upon. Best case you come out ahead but you've got a pissed off customer, worst case you're bleeding money. Yeah, that's pretty much it. There's a couple tactics you can use to nail folks down, but none of them are wholly avoiding these two outcomes. One is to have your quote lay out a very finite scope, then make any change go through a complex ECO process and have a very explicit cost. Show them the most conservative MVP feature set you can dredge out of the vague requirements, quote only that. If they want the text on a widget to change, it's at minimum 4 hours (1 PM, 3 Engineering). They might get spooked and fix up the requirements, they might charge ahead and end up paying you a lot more. The second is to ask them, preferably with multiple stakeholders from their org present, what their priorities are. Like if it gets down to crunch time, and we have to pick between Features or Time to Market, which would you prefer us to prioritize until the PM can sync everyone up? In product development we'd include CMF, COGS, etc. but the actual tentpoles don't matter as much as getting them to prioritize between 4 areas. Sometimes they can clearly articulate where they're at and it's grand, other results can include folks on their side revealing vastly different ideas about the project or showing that it's their first time genuinely considering that something might not work perfectly. Honestly it sounds like they've worked with generous consultancies that tried to steer them in the right direction before and are having none of it.
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Jan 19, 2017 19:17
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lifg posted:Alternately, you can have a fixed scope or fixed date. ... or a fixed number of work hours every week. Pick two.
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Jan 19, 2017 19:41
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So now one of the only other devs in the project is leaving it, leaving just me, the JavaScript/React newbie and the half-there lead developer (who is off doing some weird CICD related stuff). The poor newbie is tearing her hair out cause she hates JavaScript (and know basically 0 of it) and is having a really tough time with the project, since it's been such a huge shitshow, and I feel really bad for her. The PMs and POs are still confused on who's doing what and are mega pissed over our lack of progress, which when you've had a totally new type of language+framework+project with a codebase that was half baked by devs who have since mostly left, is kind of inevitable. I asked around and it turns out, it's like this for every other project team in the organization. I'm sorry but for my own sanity it's time to , this is awful. Question is whether or not to try and hold out till I get my yearly bonus.
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Jan 19, 2017 21:20
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Sorry, what is ?
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Jan 19, 2017 21:23
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To get a new job.
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Jan 19, 2017 21:24
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lifg posted:Alternately, you can have a fixed scope or fixed date. It can have any deadline you want if it isn't required to function.
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Jan 19, 2017 21:55
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100 degrees Calcium posted:Sorry, what is I didn't know for ages so I'm gonna give a proper full answer: Its "Year Of the Job". A bunch of IT goons all got new good jobs in the same year at some point (computer janitor thread), its proper life affirming. Maluco Marinero posted:I feel like I'm the vein of the 'you can't have ethical consumerism in capitalism' image, we need a 'you can't have agile fixed scope'. It just doesn't fuggin exist mate. Also, Hope is a lie.
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Jan 19, 2017 22:37
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Dirty Frank posted:I didn't know for ages so I'm gonna give a proper full answer: Its "Year Of the Job". A bunch of IT goons all got new good jobs in the same year at some point (computer janitor thread), its proper life affirming. That's badass.
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Jan 19, 2017 22:56
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Pollyanna posted:
Get whoever is going to hire you to give the bonus to you as a signing bonus, so that you don't pick a start date that's too late for them. I had the same dilemma, "idk I've kind of got a lot of unvested stock that's going to come due over the next few years" and the recruiter just immediately matched it. That poo poo was fantastic. Point is, it's cheaper for them to just vomit money into your account than to wait for you.
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Jan 20, 2017 01:21
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