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Heavy Sigh posted:I...guess that's one way to do the last few battles of Evangelion. Just put everything on ULTRA FAST FORWARD. Like I said earlier, Kaworu always seems to remember his previous appearances, and has full awareness of his role within the current game, such as knowing ahead of time in L that the Rebuild storyline was going to wrap up early, without resolving anything (seriously, the ending for it is Kaworu telling SEELE, "Sorry, wrong universe, so your schedule's been cancelled"). It's kind of fun having a character that isn't a Banpresto Original get all meta about things.
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Jan 19, 2017 02:57
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tl;dr gently caress you Asuka! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!! gently caress you Rei!!! aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. gently caress you Ollin! Who's Ollin? Also AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!! Please go away. gently caress this I'm leaving!
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Jan 19, 2017 02:57
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So I forget if I've mentioned this, but the Black and White moons thing is important as hell to the EVA setting, IIRC. Basically some rear end in a top hat aliens created a terraforming system with two steps, the white moon and the black moon. The white moons, IIRC, contain ADAMs and Angels, who do half, while the black ones contain Liliths who make another species to do the rest of the work. These two should not be in play at the same time on a single planet, and I think the combo spawned humanity as it was. Someone poked ADAM with a stick and woke it up, where it saw that humanity was really not meant to be here, plans have gone off course, etc; so its trying to hit the reset button by reaching Lilith with one of its spawn so it can... I dunno, blow themselves up and take humanity with them?
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Jan 19, 2017 05:20
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Ashsaber posted:So I forget if I've mentioned this, but the Black and White moons thing is important as hell to the EVA setting, IIRC. Basically some rear end in a top hat aliens created a terraforming system with two steps, the white moon and the black moon. The white moons, IIRC, contain ADAMs and Angels, who do half, while the black ones contain Liliths who make another species to do the rest of the work. These two should not be in play at the same time on a single planet, and I think the combo spawned humanity as it was. Someone poked ADAM with a stick and woke it up, where it saw that humanity was really not meant to be here, plans have gone off course, etc; so its trying to hit the reset button by reaching Lilith with one of its spawn so it can... I dunno, blow themselves up and take humanity with them? I've spent more time than I reasonably should trying to make sense of Evangelion's backstory, and I didn't see anything about the White and Black Moons being meant for terraforming. It seemed more like the precursors trying to seed life, like a more convoluted version of that one episode of Star Trek TNG. The moons were definitely not meant to coexist, though, with the spawn of Adam and Lilith evolving in completely divergent ways, and generally being diametrically opposed. Contact between Adam, or its spawn, and Lilith is supposed to just be destructive, like, they both go nuclear and wipe out everything in a presumably cross-shaped explosion. At least, that's what I got from reading up on it, and I doubt the more specific mechanics of how anything works were much of a priority for a story that's all about abstract concepts and symbolism, so I think the finer details are going to remain up for debate.
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Jan 19, 2017 05:30
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EclecticTastes posted:I've spent more time than I reasonably should trying to make sense of Evangelion's backstory, and I didn't see anything about the White and Black Moons being meant for terraforming. It seemed more like the precursors trying to seed life, like a more convoluted version of that one episode of Star Trek TNG. The moons were definitely not meant to coexist, though, with the spawn of Adam and Lilith evolving in completely divergent ways, and generally being diametrically opposed. Contact between Adam, or its spawn, and Lilith is supposed to just be destructive, like, they both go nuclear and wipe out everything in a presumably cross-shaped explosion. At least, that's what I got from reading up on it, and I doubt the more specific mechanics of how anything works were much of a priority for a story that's all about abstract concepts and symbolism, so I think the finer details are going to remain up for debate. Huh, probably got that from a fanfic, one of the ones with a fair bit more knowledge than I had. It seemed to make enough sense to me, like the 13th being a nanite swarm used for spaceship repairs, or one of the ones we didn't see (which would have been doing what we just saw) being responsible for creating and improving organisms, etc. Sorry, this stuff is someting I haven't touched in like half a decade, so I might be confusing fanfics with canon.
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Jan 19, 2017 05:38
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EclecticTastes posted:I've spent more time than I reasonably should trying to make sense of Evangelion's backstory, and I didn't see anything about the White and Black Moons being meant for terraforming. It seemed more like the precursors trying to seed life, like a more convoluted version of that one episode of Star Trek TNG. The moons were definitely not meant to coexist, though, with the spawn of Adam and Lilith evolving in completely divergent ways, and generally being diametrically opposed. Contact between Adam, or its spawn, and Lilith is supposed to just be destructive, like, they both go nuclear and wipe out everything in a presumably cross-shaped explosion. At least, that's what I got from reading up on it, and I doubt the more specific mechanics of how anything works were much of a priority for a story that's all about abstract concepts and symbolism, so I think the finer details are going to remain up for debate. Yeah. 90% of the backstory is completely unimportant to understanding the actual point of Evangelion, but the basic gist is that life spawned from the First Angel contains the Fruit of Life, which makes them pretty much immortal and filled with infinite energy, but without any real kind of consciousness to direct it to truely dangerous ends. Life Spawned from the Second Angel, in contrast, contains the Fruit of Knowledge, IE consciousness, allowing them to do things like create art and music and weapons of war, but without the innate power and longevity that would make it extremely dangerous to every other living thing. The innate hostility programmed into them is both metaphor for incompatible lifestyles and an in-story defense against someone taking both fruits and combining them into a God that cannot be stopped, like what happened with Unit-01 once it ate Zeruel.
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Jan 19, 2017 06:02
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From what I read from several wikis, the important thing is that the all powerful Precursors basically split life into two steams. Lilins, born from the black moon had powerful intellect to adapt and create tools. Adams got weirdly evolving bodies and relied on their strength and endurance to survive. What he Precursors wanted to avoid, perhaps due to hubris or to fear, was a lifeform that had both (like the humans get with the Evangelions) qualities. This is hard coded into the system, specifically into the overseeing lifeforms (Adam and Lilith). All this is why the Angels and Humans are so fundamentally incompatible. It also only comes up as datalog entries in a Japan only PSP game.
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Jan 19, 2017 06:10
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I can't remember the last time I saw a bullshit mindgames guy retreat out of what seems to be nothing more than sheer incomprehension.
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Jan 19, 2017 07:13
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Glazius posted:I can't remember the last time I saw a bullshit mindgames guy retreat out of what seems to be nothing more than sheer incomprehension. In fairness, Mamoru is more of a direct combat guy who just happens to twist the knife when he sees it, the Angel and Vivace were doing the actual mind games. Mamoru's actually a really simple kind of guy (kind of out of place among the Mu), which is precisely why Kaworu cowed him so easily.
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Jan 19, 2017 08:44
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It's makes sense but is still weird to see how they shuffled around RahXephon's plot considered Kunagi's self sacrifice pretty much lead Ayato's end game emotionally and the the big last fight. Also, MX did an amazing job mixing RahXephon's and Evangelions plot's together here. Holy poo poo on all the heavy rear end poo poo Evangelion stuff coming all at once like this. Utterly amazed they kept in some reference to Asuka's mom hanging herself too.
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Jan 19, 2017 10:03
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Inevitably every Eva story that wants to go through to the end, no matter how much progress the trio has been making figures "We have to kill Rei 2, and utterly screw up Shinji and Asuka."
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Jan 19, 2017 11:39
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"poo poo, these characters have been adjusting too well, how do we make them come tumbling down?" "gently caress it, let's make a whole bunch of stuff happen at the same time." "But that's going to be too long..." And that's how we got a stage of nothing but dialogue without gameplay in Alpha 1. 
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Jan 19, 2017 16:06
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And then Alpha 3 rolls around and Shinji basically gets to punch Third Impact in the face. That's kind of what happens when you spend most of a game hanging out with guys like Guy Shishioh.
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Jan 19, 2017 17:50
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 Over by the Tokyo Hilanipla, Quon is hearing something: a song she heard in olden times. Maya knows this to mean that the boy has appeared. It’s almost time for the last movement’s overture.   : … We can consider the MU’s interference to be properly stymied now. : Whatever plans Bähbem might be concocting, we’ve the Magnate Ten and the Medius Locus at our disposal to deal with it.: Despite Zapato’s somewhat unforeseen death, that is.: All within the scope of our predictions; that woman is dancing squarely over the palms of our hands and she won’t be escaping from there. : Furthermore, if the Medius can destroy that demon, then it’ll already have served its purpose. And, finally, as per SEELE’s Dead Sea Scrolls, only one Angel remains… : The promised time is close at hand, after a long journey and so many sacrifices.: Indeed… the loss of the Unit #00 is already more than enough reason for Ikari to be dismissed. : Though we’ll need a pawn to deal with him.: And it will have to be someone who knows the truth… Vega wants to know what happened to Rei, though Misato’s quiet. Why? Ginga remembers that the last time she used her A.T. Field to be safe after the explosion, right? Misato honestly doesn’t know what happened, as the recovery of the #00’s wreck was conducted with absolute secrecy by the science division. Meg and Touji wonder if Miasto’s hiding something from us but she also wants to know what Ritsuko’s folks are up to. Shinji… seems to be bit stunned over everything: “I… I’ve no tears, Misato… I’m feeling so sad but none are coming…” As for Asuka, she’s been taken to NERV’s hospital – her life isn’t in danger but she’s in a coma. Ginga’s also taking it pretty hard, starting to wonder if we could’ve done A or B differently and things would’ve ended better. Misato takes the blame on herself for making a bad call, though Vega tries comforting her. As for Ayato, Meg says he’s been with Haruka ever since returning.   : Ayato… : …I can’t paint it… : Huh?: The painting I wanted to show you.: …: You knew us, didn’t you? Me, Hiroko… and Mamoru…: …I did. But, now, he’s…: My mom and Mamoru were all lying to me… why? What are they trying to make me do…?: What… What am I…?: Ayato… Over by the Dummy System, Fuyutsuki is musing over Ayanami Rei, a byproduct of his despair and, yet, vessel of Gendou’s hopes. He bitterly notes that it seems impossible for them to forget, and after a pause asks if Gendou's son is to become their own Ollin. Gendou doesn't know yet - perhaps only EVA-01 does.  Masato’s relaying the orders we’ve been given: we’ll maintain our current status and continue to patrol the area. Kirakuni isn’t too surprised, what with two EVAs out of commission and the #01’s situation being as uncertain as it is; if anyone attacked, things would get complicated. Our people have been briefed on that mysterious boy being the Fifth Children and Hugo asks if anyone knows anything about him. The kid seemed to speak to the Dolem, causing it to back off without even trying to finish us off. Could he also be a Mulian, Elvy wonders. Masato doesn’t think so. Inwardly, he notes that Kaworu had a similar aura as him – a child devised and created by someone’s hand. If Masato’s hunch is right, he is… Masato’s brought back to reality when Aqua rushes in, yelling. What’s going on? It’s Rei… she’s alright!   : (…Why… Why am I here? Why am I alive again? For what? For whom?) : Ayanami!!: … : You’re safe… thank god…: …: Um… my dad isn’t here?: …: Thanks… Thanks for saving us.: What?: What do you mean “what”? You sacrificed the #00 to save us, didn’t you?: I see… I saved you. : You don’t remember?: No… I don’t know… Probably because I’m the third one.: “Third”…?!: Go.: Huh…?: Go. You don’t need to worry about me.: O-OK…*Shinji leaves.* : …: …So you’re the First Children. : …: Rei Ayanami… We are alike, both given bodies like the Lilin’s with which to live in this world…: …Who are you? Gendou is passing orders for the First Children to be left as is, while the others will simple be under surveillance. Furthermore, he wants synchronization tests ran on the #02 right away. The call ended, he confirms to Fuyutsuki that Kaworu’s come into contact with Rei. They’re having the MAGI analyze Kaworu’s data from top to bottom. They seem to have an idea of what he might be. Fuyutsuki also warns that Rei being alive again will likely ruffle Keel’s feathers but Gendou says that he's thrown them a different piece of meat. Regardless, while the MU and the Fifth ARE both unwanted visitors, they are also the hateful keys to the door leading to the end and the beginning.  Ritsuko’s been brought before SEELE and they’re hoping they can proceed with this as gently as possible – no need to impose further hardship on her. Ritsuko levelly says she isn’t feeling anything in particular and Member A compliments what strong woman she is. It’s no wonder Gendou likes her by his side. Granted, Member B argues that it was Gendou himself who hung her out to dry here. They originally wanted to interrogate the #00’s pilot but he refused. Ritsuko doesn’t like the thought of being used as a stand-in for Rei but, regardless, SEELE still has questions to ask her…  NERV’s running the synchronization tests and Fuyutsuki’s having a hard time believing the numbers they’re getting. All systems are working properly and the MAGI aren’t pointing at any errors, though. Kaworu apparently can sync with the #02 even before they made the proper changes to the core, which is unbelievable. In truth, Maya says this shouldn’t be possible but here it is. She wants to show this to Ritsuko ASAP but Fuyutsuki says she’s busy right now. Misato is bothered, though. They need to accept that this is real, yes, but, more importantly, they now need to understand HOW this is actually happening.   : Yow, you’re pretty dang awesome. This your first time piloting an EVA?: It is.: And you’re already getting those huge sync numbers… drat. : That’s incredible, Kaworu.: Yup. I reckon Asuka can just focus on getting better now that you’re covering for her. : Hahah… but I’m still really far from your level.: N-No, no. I also didn’t get pretty much anything when I first piloted an EVA… : …: Shinji, what’ll you be doing after this?: W-Well, I was gonna go home…: Mind if I come with? : Huh…? W-Why…?: I’m interested in you.: I-Interested…?: Ohoho… you two got something going on?: Wh-Whatever do you mean by that, Touji?: Well, I reckon I’m being a third wheel here. Let’s take off, Ayanami. : …*They leave.*  : Ah—… Touji… Ayanami…: You’re really averse to opening up to others, aren't you? Does letting people in scare you…? : …It did, before. But now, I…: If you don’t get to know others, then you can’t be betrayed by them. You can’t hurt each other… Still, as part of the Magnate Ten, you’ve managed to overcome the pain and sorrow, no?: Y-Yes…: But man can’t be rid of loneliness for good… because man is alone. Man lives on because he can forget. The memories of a world that once was, the trials that took place there… the pain, the sorrow… all of it is forgotten. : What… what are you talking about?: There’s always pain in man’s heart. And because of that, he feels life as pain. But that’s something that’s necessary to stop the world’s march towards destruction.: The “world’s march towards destruction”…?: You fight to stop that from happening but it’s hard, isn’t it, Shinji?: Ka-Kaworu…: Hearts are delicate like glass… especially yours.: I’m…?: Yes. And that is what makes me fond of you.: Fond…? : In other words, I love you.: !: I was born into this world to meet you.: Th-That’s…: (Yes… just like before.)*Pager!* : Hm? Ritsuko’s asking for me…?: You’ve a job to do, hm? You should go then.: Ah? But…: Oh, don’t worry about me. I’m sure we’ll have a chance to talk again. : O-OK… I’ll see you later.*Off he goes.* : (The truth always hurts… but it is still something you must accept, Shinji… Just like that Ollin.) SEELE has just released Ritsuko, which Member B thinks will work out in their favor; her work has been essential for the EVA Series and they figure she still has some use left in her. Everything they do is to safeguard mankind’s future and overcome the collapse of the world. The Evangelions are being created for that purpose – eight of the EVA Series are already underway, with another four still planned to come. Keel orders the production to be sped up as their completion will signal the arrival of the promised time.  Later, Makoto has borrowed/stolen Kaworu’s data from Maya and brought it to Misato. She apologizes for having him play thief but he tells her not to – he also wants to get some answers. What they see explain why Maya couldn’t divulge this data – everything is theoretically impossible. The fact that Kaworu can seemingly synchronize himself with an EVA at will only deepens the mystery. Misato then gets paged and tells Makoto they’ll continue this another time. Inwardly, she sees that Ritsuko’s returned.   : …*Beeeeep!*  : …?! My password isn’t…? : It won’t open without my password.: I see… Kaji’s handiwork, hm? : I’d like to see what secret you’re keeping here, if you would.: That’s fine, though he’ll be joining us.: Misato… : …Alright. : Are those… EVAs?!: The very first ones… though they were ultimately failures, thrown away ten years ago.: There are so many… it’s like a graveyard for EVAs…: More like a dumping ground… this is also where your mother disappeared.: !: You might not remember but you saw it happen with your own two eyes.: …!!: Ritsuko!: …Let’s keep going. There’s more to see, deeper. : This is… the source of the Dummy Plugs…? : Let me show you the truth behind it…  : Wh-What…?!: Ayanami… Rei…!: The EVAs’ Dummy Plugs are…?!: Correct. This is the production line of the cores of the Dummy System.: Then they’re…!: All you see here are Dummies… And they are no more than replacement parts for Rei.: Man found God and, in their joy, tried to make Him theirs… and for that man was punished. That was fifteen years ago…: The Second Impact…! : And because of that, the God man found disappeared… Then man tried to resurrect God with this own hands. The result… was Adam.: And from Adam, we created Man, in God’s image... That is the EVA.: “Man”…? The Evangelions are humans?!: Yes… they are humans. The EVAs were originally soulless, and so we housed souls within them. They're all salvaged from a world that isn't our own. : Then… the EVAs and Angels are from another world, just like the MU?!: But the only vessel that held a soul was Rei – none but her were born with one. The Chamber of Guf was empty.: The things you see here, these Reis, are simply empty, soulless vessels. Dolls, like the Dolems.: I hate them… And that’s why I’ll destroy them.*Beeep.* : ! : Do you have any idea what you’re doing?!: I do – I’m destroying them. They’re not human, only things made to look like one.: But I lost, even to these things…! I couldn’t win him!: I could stand any indignity for him – whatever happened to me, I didn’t care…! And, still, he… he…!: …: I know… I’m a tremendous fool… like mother, like daughter…! : … : (Ritsuko…): If you want to kill me, go right ahead. Actually… I’d be glad if you did…: And that is what really makes you a fool…: Kch… aah…: (Another tragic story of those bound to the EVAs… Am I the same…?): (Ayanami Rei… What I felt from her… was it really my mom…? Dad… just what are you doing with mom and Ayanami…?!): (And… what am I supposed to do? How am I to face Ayanami again…? Please, someone tell me… Mom… Asuka… Kaworu…! What do I do?!) Kaworu’s visiting SEELE: “Man can’t create something from nothing. Man can do nothing without relying on something – because man is not God,” he says. However, Keel points out that there are those attempting to claim power equal to God’s, a group beyond them that is trying to open Pandora’s Box once again. Kaworu knows who they speak of: the blue-blooded people… and Ernst Von Bähbem. And, finally, there is one man who wants to shut Pandora’s Box before hope can emerge from within. Kaworu asks if that is what the Lilin would call hope and Member A says hope takes different forms for everyone. After all, hope only exists within the people’s hearts. Keel, however, declares that SEELE's own hope is turning tangible… in Lilith, the progenitor of humanity – the false heirs from the Black Moon – and in Adam, the progenitor of the Angels – the righteous heirs from the lost White Moon. Adam, whose salvaged soul now resides in Kaworu. Problem is, the flesh of the revived Adam is already in Gendou’s possession – meaning he is like Kaworu. Thus, SEELE places their wishes with him and ask that he carry it out before the blue-blooded people, their mechanical god and its Instrumentalist perform the Tuning. “So that the Human Instrumentality Project… no, so that the Pluridimensional Instrumentality Project may succeed… so that all universes and their peoples may become one, free from the cycle of death and rebirth, and owners of a new future…” Keel beseeches. : I understand. That’s why I’m here, after all…: (Everything’ll go as the Lilin want it to, and it’ll be Shinji and his friends who’ll make that call… regardless of what you expect.): …: Oh…? Have you come to stop me, Ixtli? : …: He doesn’t want to obstruct your melody, so I won’t be doing that either. : …What have you chosen?: That’ll depend on your Ollin and our Ollin.: What about the lance that'd grant your group's wishes?: It's not necessary. We’ve no need for the lance that pierces God's heart... Neither does your group's God, of course.: That is why no one can stop the one offered to God... and you can't stop me, either.: …*Reika vanishes.* I’d take a thousand Fudou koans over these two meeting again… : That’s right… It’s not me who’ll decide the path all the worlds will follow, Ixtli…: Let’s go, Adam’s replica… servant of the Lilin.   Using the Alpha 3 BGM here because it’s got more stuff to it.  : The EVA-02’s moving!: How?! Where’s Asuka?! : Still in room 303 – we’ve just confirmed it!: Then who the hell is it?! : It’s no one! The #02’s Entry Plug is empty!: (No one…?! It’s not the Fifth, then?!): We’re detecting an A.T. Field within Central Dogma!: The #02’s?!: No, the pattern is blue! This is an Angel!: What?!: (That boy… he’s an Angel?!): Target’s descending through Central Dogma – it’s already through the fourth level! : Seal off all of Central Dogma’s bulwarks. Anything to buy us time.: Target has just passed through the fifth level!: We were right… that boy is…! : SEELE’s old men mean to accelerate their plans up even further… using us to do it.*Alarm!* : The #02’s breaking through the bulwarks!: The target’s passed through the second Cocytus!: Have the EVA-01 intercept it. The other units are to deploy immediately.: Yes, sir!: Stop the target from entering Terminal Dogma by whatever means necessary.: (But… why would an Angel hijack the #02…?!): Could it be trying to fuse with the EVA-02?: Or maybe it’s to bring about more destruction.: No! You’re lying! You’re lying! There’s no way Kaworu’s an Angel!: That’s the truth… you need to accept it. You are to deploy right away, alright?: …!! : You… you’ve betrayed me..! You stomped all over my trust and betrayed me, just like dad…!: The #01’s made it to the bottom level! It should be reaching the target soon!: Makoto… if the #01’s signal disappears or any other changes happen… : I know. I’m to engage the self-destruct for the entire facility, right?: Right.: It’s better than letting the Third Impact trigger…: Sorry…: It’s fine… Dying beside you wouldn’t be too bad.: …Thank you.*RUUUMBLE!* : What was that?!: An A.T. Field! Stronger than any we’ve detected!: It’s blocking all light, electromagnetic and particle readings! The monitors are all dead!: No unit other than the #01’ll be able to descend into Terminal Dogma now! : It’s a barrier…!: Both the #01 and #02’s signals have vanished! Unable to contact the pilot!*RUUUMBLE!* : S-Status?!: That was an A.T. Field again!: Another A.T. Field, similar to the last one, has emerged near Terminal Dogma’s barrier! The barrier’s being neutralized!: Th-The other units can get there again!: Who neutralized the Field?! Another Angel?!: …Rei?: …: The final safety device has just fallen through!: Heaven’s Door… is opening…!: An Angel has finally made it…! : You’re late, Shinji… : Adam… that from which we came. Must one born of Adam return to Adam, even if it’ll trigger man’s destruction…?*…*  : No…! This is… Lilith? I see… So that’s how it is, Lilin. : I’ve been waiting, Shinji.: Kaworu!: The EVA Series… They were born of Adam, so the Lilin should hate them… but they’re actually fine with using them in order to survive. I don’t understand that.: Kaworu, stop! Why is this happening?!: The EVA is made of the same matter as me. I, too, was born from Adam, see?: The #02’s soul has shut itself away for now and with it gone, I could take the unit over.: !!  : An A.T. Field?!: Ah, right. That’s what you Lilin call this, huh? It’s the light of the soul, a sacred territory where no one can enter.: It’s the wall around the heart and everyone has it. You Lilin know that, right?: I don’t understand any of that, Kaworu!  : Shinji!!: A-Ayato…! Everyone…!: Heh… She brought them over here, huh?: … : He is the last Angel, Shinji…?!: H-He…!: Oh, that machine… : !: It’s got the key to the Doors of Guf, I see. : “Key”…?! You mean the Dimensional Coupling System?!: That’s right. It’s both a device to draw unlimited power from a parallel world and the key to open the walls between worlds. : Only… it wasn’t available back then. : It wasn’t…? You don’t mean—! : Because I… Because Masaki Kihara stole the Zeorymer?: Hmhmm. You didn’t like the idea of leaving the key with SEELE. In fact, you, yourself, tried opening the doors leading to the end.: Then the Zeorymer and Haudragon…: Were created by those who know the truth in order to put an end to this world… Just in case we managed to destroy everything.: …!: But it looks like you didn’t choose to do that…: That’s right…! I’m not going to use the Zeorymer for whatever its original purpose was…: That’s how I’ll atone for what I did… I will not let this world end! : Hell, yeah! We’re all up for that!: Ah, the power and hope earned from the past… and the seventh light… : Huh…?!: The ultimate hope is inside you. : Ultimate... hope? : Do… Do you know something?!: You’ll understand, soon.: …!: Your hearts are delicate but they’re also strong… That’s why you deserve to be owners of your future.: Will it be me that reaches the other shore of time, or your group? …Or maybe this place already is that. (Check Buddhism for the other shore/Higan/Pure Land) : Huh… The hell’s he on about?! : D-Don’t ask me…!: Come on, then, Ollin… Bless my soul with your song.: !!: This is a trial you’ll have to overcome if you’re to attain Yolteotl…: If you can’t, then I’ll have to Tune all the worlds myself.: Wh-What are you…?!: We’ve been burdened with the same destiny. You, too, Shinji.: Huh…?!: Who’ll be at the center of everything… who’ll watch over the various worlds… who’ll be the crux of the endless cycle…: All the trials you’ve had were to decide who that person’ll be.: I don’t really understand what you’re saying, Kaworu…!: That’s fine for now, Shinji.: Go, Ollin… sing. Sing your forbidden song. The song that resounds from past to future… that once opened the Doors of Guf and awakened us…: The song that’ll lead the Lilin to the Promised Land…!: !!*RahXephon howls!*   : The mechanical god…: Sing. Sing your forbidden song. : …!: Bless my soul with your song. : A-Ayato…!: Get to work. If you don’t stop me now, you’ll all be destroyed.: “Destroyed”…? H-How come?! : We… we have to beat him. Misato told me that if an Angel ever got in contact with Adam, it might trigger the Third Impact…! : …!! : Then we better take him up on his word…! : A-Ain’t no other way around this…! : Yeah…! It’s too drat soon for everything to end…!: (History repeats itself… Thousands and thousands of cycles have passed and the still Lilin can’t escape death…): (But life and death are two sides of the same coin. The fated destruction also brings the joy of rebirth…): (But if man can just keep hope alive within, that’s good enough… If they do, their hope will lead them to a new future even if their world was destroyed…): (And someday, man’ll be able to set themselves free from the cycle controlled by the Infinite Power…)Kaworu’s got auto-mercy for this first round, so you needn’t even worry about getting anyone killed (though he really isn’t tough). : What’re you going to do? Will you open the Doors again or…: My answer should be pretty obvious…! I’d never open any Doors that’d cause the world to end! : Masato…!: If you’re so certain, then I suppose that key’s already useless. All that’s left now is closing the Doors shut…    : How can someone like you be an Angel…?: But that’s reality and you need to come to grips with it… and with the meaning behind the name "AI1".: Hm?! What do you know about AI1?!: You’ll figure it out and not too far from now. When you do, we might actually meet again…https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDqaPgicbOg Ow! : H-Hey, you… were you tricking us?!: Take it any way you want. The fact is there was no way around it. : The hell?! Never mind me, I ain’t gonna cut you any slack for spitting in Shinji’s face like that!: Lying to him ain’t something I’m ever forgiving!: Hahah… With good friends like you around, I’m sure Shinji’ll be fine…    : You know what’s up with me and the RahXephon, don’t you? Tell me, please!: All the answers are inside you. And you’ll find them soon enough.: When you do, the world’ll likely be filled with your song…     : I can’t make heads or tails of whatever you’re on about!: That’s fine. You already have your answer to the future deep inside. : Then talk to us! What’d you mean by that “ultimate hope inside me” business?!: That is something you… rather, the two of you’ll need to find for yourselves.    : Kaworu…! I… I…!: It’s alright… this is a ceremony. All to decide who’ll be making it to the Promised Land.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xa4USoqlnqI Depending on whether Shinji or Ayato deals the finishing blow, this convo changes a bit. : …Thank you, Shinji/Ollin. I wanted you to be the one to stop the #02.: If you didn’t, I might’ve gone on living with her.: Kaworu… why…?! : You… but why…?!: Because it’s my destiny to go on living… even if that’d mean the destruction of man.: But I can also die here. Whether I live or not doesn’t make a whole lot of difference to me. Dying of your own will… that is the only absolute freedom there is.: What… Kaworu, what are you talking about?! I don’t understand…!: Shinji…: That was my last will and testament. Now, please, kill me. If you don’t, you’ll be the ones who’ll be killed. Ayato only: : Only one life form can be chosen to survive the end times and earn its future… and you, the Lilin, should not be the ones to die… : …: …: …: Your friends need a future. Don’t forget that, even after you’ve attained Yolteotl.: …: Thank you… I’ll be waiting at the other shore of time…: …: ……: ………: …………Shinji only: : Only one life form can be chosen to survive the end times and earn its future… and you should not be the one to die… : …: …: …: All of you need a future.: …: Thank you… I’m glad I met you.: …: ……: ………: …………  : …Kaworu said he loved me.: …: That was the first time anyone said that to me. He was like me… and like Ayanami… I liked him too…: …: He should’ve been the one to survive… he was a much better person than me…: Kaworu deserved to live…: …No. Only those with the will to survive actually deserve to live.: He wanted to die. He gave up on his will to live and died clinging to false hope… You’ve nothing to blame yourself for.: …You’re such a cold person, Misato.: That is the only way to survive what’s to come… Haruka tells Vega that the RahXephon team’ll be heading back to TERRA to help with the ongoing project (Bright’s already OK’d it). Moreover, the EVA team will also be staying at NERV for the time being – unsurprising to Vega, considering everything that happened. As for our remaining units, we’ll be heading back into space to rendezvous with the Nadesco and Argama. Operation Bagration succeeded but the battle against the Gulfer continues – plus, the Devil Gundam is always a worry. And then there’s still the MU. With wishes for each other to take care, the two Sailor Scouts go their separate ways. Brunom1 fucked around with this message at 18:00 on Feb 6, 2017 |
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Jan 20, 2017 15:58
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I gotta praise MX here: it somehow made Evangelion even harder to understand. That takes some serious skill.
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Jan 20, 2017 17:13
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Blaze Dragon posted:I gotta praise MX here: it somehow made Evangelion even harder to understand. That takes some serious skill. Tie it all up with RahXephon, creating an incomprehensible chimera of crypticism. Writing all this gave me a legit headache.
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Jan 20, 2017 17:18
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Oh, look. There's Kaworu, ten meters tall, hovering next to Unit-02. And he just flops around whenever the Eva gets hit. I guess a unit composed of two sprites was more than the PS2 could handle.
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Jan 20, 2017 18:17
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It's funny how they redo Shinji's weird attachment to Kaworu despite the mere existence of the MX crew cutting out the entire reason he latched on to Kaworu in the original. Like seriously how long did Shinji even know Kaworu this time, less than a day?
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Jan 20, 2017 18:50
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It doesn't help that Kaji, Misato and Ritsuko are all unreliable narrators that think they know what is going on but are actually wrong. Of them all, Kaworu is the one who gets things the least wrong: His only mistake is going down to Terminal Dogma to meet up with Adam then going "Oh poo poo I've been deceived." and realizing that was Lilith down there and that Gendo is better at this world-ending conspiracy thing than SEELE. The reveal that Masaki worked for SEELE is one of my favorite crossover bits in this game and it isn't even a big deal. It's there to explain how Zeorymer can end the world, but it also links Masaki to Gendo and I like the mental image Two lovely Dads hanging out and planning how to use their children in apocalyptic plots together.
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Jan 20, 2017 18:56
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Heavy Sigh posted:It's funny how they redo Shinji's weird attachment to Kaworu despite the mere existence of the MX crew cutting out the entire reason he latched on to Kaworu in the original. It helps if you think of Shinji as someone who knows Kaworu instinctively, courtesy of them meeting in so many other versions of Evangelion. Hell, this: (Yes… just like before.)kind of helps to prove that, although it's probably meant to connect more to the other SRWs than the actual Evangelion spinoffs, since the movies are what actually made the "Kaworu remembers each iteration" thing definitively canon. The other cryptic assholes are confused by him because they only know *some* of the cycles, while Kaworu seems to know *all* of them. And frankly, that makes Gendo's ability to trick him in each timeline even more batshit crazy.
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Jan 20, 2017 19:13
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thetruegentleman posted:It helps if you think of Shinji as someone who knows Kaworu instinctively, courtesy of them meeting in so many other versions of Evangelion. Hell, this: It might be that that room at the bottom of Terminal Dogma causes some sort of memory hole issue for Kaworu's multiverse senses. Or maybe he doesn't know anything from after or shortly before his deaths. I don't believe he's ever actually alluded to any event after his own deaths in his various appearances, save those he knows to be inevitable, or that he makes clear are speculaton/wishful thinking. By the way, I may have brought this up before in the Z thread, but while this version of Ode to Joy is pretty decent, and is essentially the version they go with both here and in the Alpha games (just getting progressively higher-resolution), I prefer the slightly different version used in F Final's bad ending. The contrast in loudness between the loudest and softest (well, least loud) instruments/vocals is much less, and it's somewhat louder overall, creating a truly oppressive wall of sound, which fits the tone of this scene extremely well. Very Clockwork Orange. The Sega Saturn version even cuts out that quiet second at the start, which really emphasizes the "you done goofed up real good" feeling of finding yourself in the bad ending (which in F Final's case means "traumatize Shinji enough that he causes Third Impact"). EDIT: Oh, right, for reference, here's the Saturn version of the track.
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Jan 20, 2017 19:59
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Brunom1 posted:Tie it all up with RahXephon, creating an incomprehensible chimera of crypticism. EclecticTastes posted:By the way, I may have brought this up before in the Z thread, but while this version of Ode to Joy is pretty decent, and is essentially the version they go with both here and in the Alpha games (just getting progressively higher-resolution), I prefer the slightly different version used in F Final's bad ending. The contrast in loudness between the loudest and softest (well, least loud) instruments/vocals is much less, and it's somewhat louder overall, creating a truly oppressive wall of sound, which fits the tone of this scene extremely well. Very Clockwork Orange. The Sega Saturn version even cuts out that quiet second at the start, which really emphasizes the "you done goofed up real good" feeling of finding yourself in the bad ending (which in F Final's case means "traumatize Shinji enough that he causes Third Impact"). Seriously, the Saturn version of Genocider Machine at least sounds like the track we hear across the Classic timeline and later in OG, whereas the PS1 version can't make up its mind as to what melody it wants to go with.
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Jan 20, 2017 23:19
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Confusing as hell as always. But Kaworu probably one of the least assholish vague guy of world ending.
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Jan 21, 2017 00:27
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AradoBalanga posted:, whereas the PS1 version can't make up its mind as to what melody it wants to go with. You didn't even post the dumbest version of it. And have a bonus because good lord.
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Jan 21, 2017 01:24
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Grashbar posted:You didn't even post the dumbest version of it. The Complete Box OST, on the other hand, just goes off the rails for no good reason. Like, what was the composer thinking at the time?
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Jan 21, 2017 01:51
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Kaworu strikes me as a very punch-clock world-ender. Really he's just there for the watercooler conversation.
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Jan 21, 2017 02:27
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Glazius posted:Kaworu strikes me as a very punch-clock world-ender. Really he's just there for the watercooler conversation. Well, he seems to genuinely consider Shinji his friend, so this whole thing may be the only thing he looks forward to in his infinite number of eons-long lifetimes, so he takes the time to enjoy it while he can, before he has to break into Terminal Dogma and kick off the final phase of Evangelion. Classifying him as a villain is really oversimplifying his role. He's more like one of the good guys, but one who is ordained by fate to take on the facade of an enemy, for the good of the world (ultimately, he knows Shinji won't let him trigger Third Impact, but his attempt sets in motion a very important chain of events, as we'll see).
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Jan 21, 2017 02:45
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That all said, getting to this point of MX has just made me realize... Hugo and Aqua are pretty irrelevant to this game. I'm sure it's all going to tie together, but beyond a few lines contributed here and there, I honestly get the feeling they could be cut from the game and most chapters wouldn't change.
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Jan 21, 2017 03:06
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Onmi posted:That all said, getting to this point of MX has just made me realize... It has been a while since we've actually seen a Devil Gundam cell, hasn't it?
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Jan 21, 2017 03:14
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Onmi posted:That all said, getting to this point of MX has just made me realize... Hm, I realized this throughout writing the LP. It's an odd situation. The original plot itself is connected with the other series but the way it was made doesn't leave much for it to do on its own. The Tsentr Project is just an arm of SEELE, funding Mitall's research as a way to create a perpetually-running, super-regenerating unit with which to enforce their Schedule. The problem with this, however, is that the secrecy of it all makes almost everything related to it be hidden from the viewer until very late in the game. Hugo and Aqua were pretty much dragged into this by forces beyond their control from day one and they almost never take center stage as most originals do. Mitall only wanted the prototypes to fight each other and the major enemy factions as a way to gather live combat data - the theft was a way to make that happen quicker and in a constraint-free environment that forced Hugo and Aqua to fight to the death. This brings us to another problem: they lack the MAJOR original enemy faction that pretty much all original MCs have. Albero and Elde started merely as a target crafted by Mitall and while they each have their own agenda outside that, in truth, Hugo and Aqua are rather low priority targets in their eyes. Honestly, the MAIN plotline of this game is the stuff around Evangelion and RahXephon - 80% of the plot threads tie to them. Hugo and Aqua are a rare case of Banpresto originals in that they're rather self-contained, orbiting the overall plot via mostly a shadowy flow of events that they're not even aware of. This could've been somewhat fixed by way of having G Gundam play out its full plot, giving at least Hugo something firmer to hold onto until the SEELE connection became more apparent. Brunom1 fucked around with this message at 03:46 on Jan 21, 2017 |
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Jan 21, 2017 03:42
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ayato is my favorite banpresto original
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Jan 21, 2017 03:45
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You've burned through a whole bunch of your ellipses budget today.
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Jan 21, 2017 04:03
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Synthbuttrange posted:You've burned through a whole bunch of your ellipses budget today. Blame the series, not me! I actually cut a handful of those, too.
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Jan 21, 2017 04:06
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Onmi posted:That all said, getting to this point of MX has just made me realize... *=While the original villains in L wait until the very end of the game to be properly relevant, at least Ichitaka has a personal connection to two major plots (Linebarrels and Rebuild of EVA) and gets involved in those series' plots over the course of the game, hence why I listed it as a technicality.
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Jan 21, 2017 04:13
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EclecticTastes posted:What I want to know is, does his car split in half when Daimos transforms? Because the trailer it goes into becomes the legs, and you can clearly see that the car stays there in the rendition of that sequence from SRW Alpha 2. Ultra belatedly: I think the implication is that it moves through the trailer into the torso? In the Soul of Chogokin figure it's just very tiny and only goes in one leg.
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Jan 21, 2017 04:37
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AradoBalanga posted:Hugo and Aqua's situation feels a lot like how Alpha Gaiden and technically L* handle the originals. They're present, but often not part of the plot du jour of the stage. The big difference is that unlike the Ancestors, there is a personal connection between the protagonists and the rival characters/villains. Of course, like Brunom said, they don't exactly have a marquee named villain to tangle with over the course of the story. Medius Locus is kept as a threat for the first part of the game, but it does sharply trail off as a major factor once Albero and Elde reveal themselves to Hugo and Aqua. As a result, Hugo and Aqua wander through the various plots and lend their expertise when needed instead of being the central focus like one might expect from these games. On the other hand, you've got SRWs where the original villains drat near take over the whole plot, like Alpha 1 and 3. I'd personally take the "Banpresto Originals as mostly irrelevant before the final boss" route if I had to choose between the two. For example, Alpha 2 had exactly one Banpresto Original enemy prior to the final boss, and even that is only if you play as Sanger, and Alpha 2 was one of my favorite SRW experiences (it helps that Alpha 2 lets you deploy literally every playable character in the final battle if you set things up right, which I personally enjoyed).
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Jan 21, 2017 04:43
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I might have just lost it in the updates but I don't think Hugo and Aqua have really had much interaction with the other characters either. I remember Aqua and Rain had a couple of scenes but I can't recall anything else, maybe because of that they don't really stand out too much to me. I kind of think they could use some stronger connections to a few of the other series.
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Jan 21, 2017 04:53
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SyntheticPolygon posted:I might have just lost it in the updates but I don't think Hugo and Aqua have really had much interaction with the other characters either. I remember Aqua and Rain had a couple of scenes but I can't recall anything else, maybe because of that they don't really stand out too much to me. I kind of think they could use some stronger connections to a few of the other series. Banpresto may have realized this shortcoming as well, since they made Hugo and Aqua much more of a presence in 2nd OGs.
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Jan 21, 2017 08:53
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SyntheticPolygon posted:I might have just lost it in the updates but I don't think Hugo and Aqua have really had much interaction with the other characters either. I remember Aqua and Rain had a couple of scenes but I can't recall anything else, maybe because of that they don't really stand out too much to me. I kind of think they could use some stronger connections to a few of the other series. I realized this as well. It feels like a very sharp contrast to the Z series where the protagonists had very clear connections to non-OG characters (Rand's young adult team with Gain and Holland, as well as his connections to the Xabungle cast in general, Setsuko being an ex-Titan and her close friendship with Shinn, Crowe having his own young adult team and his connections to Britannia). It feels especially weird because the series themselves are very well connected, as shown by the martial artist team-ups of Domon, Kazuya, Ginga, etc. Even moreso because it'd be super easy to have Hugo and Aqua bond with the G Gundam cast considering their similar situations and Hugo's past with the Devil Gundam.
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Jan 21, 2017 18:38
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| # ? Jun 8, 2024 00:19 |
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Blaze Dragon posted:
Hugo is a loner at heart though, so any interactions with the other characters would require them to come to him, since Hugo will never go to them. The G Gundam cast has no real reason to approach him - I can't remember, but I don't think they ever heard about Hugo's history with the Devil gundam. At this point, it feels like even Aqua, the one person with a reason to interact with him, has given up on him. And why wouldn't she? She has her own angst to think about now, and her working relationship with Hugo had no positive qualities to begin with.
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Jan 21, 2017 19:01
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