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FamDav posted:Is US policy towards Israel heavily influenced by our own feelings on the treatment of Native Americans? ...As in, we're for it?  Edit: dammit 
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Jan 22, 2017 05:32
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So if i understand correctly, hakimashou is saying that if the Palestinians achieved meaningful goals with their violence it would be fine. He's basically saying they should start blowing up more important things, take a few cues from the IRA. That's a pretty bold opinion to have.
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Jan 22, 2017 10:07
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hakimashou posted:People always say that Gaza got bombed to rubble in Protective Edge, did Israel get rocketed to rubble? So. Genocide is morally right, when it's performed by the winners, against the losers? Is there ever any other sort of genocide? If the situation was reversed and the Palestinians were the ones in a position of strength, with Israel reduced to a tiny enclave of rubble, would you support the Palestinians' right to keep besieging and bombing the Israeli? hakimashou posted:The script changes but the narrative arc remains exactly the same, and I'm glad Israel pays it absolutely no mind. After what was done to the Jews, I don't blame them or hold it against them even a little bit for their own survival to be their absolute overriding priority to which all other considerations are subordinated. So practicing ethnic cleansing is justified because it's a survival strategy. hakimashou posted:The Palestinians should make their own survival their overriding priority. If they did, they'd never launch another terrorist attack against Israel. So, survival strategy for Israel is to practice ethnic cleansing, collective punishment, mass expropriation, and carpet bombings; survival strategy for Palestinians is to meekly lay their neck on the chopping block. Got it. Cat Mattress fucked around with this message at 13:05 on Jan 22, 2017 |
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Jan 22, 2017 12:58
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https://twitter.com/Conflicts/status/823191676491624453
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Jan 22, 2017 16:47
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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/donald-trump-us-embassy-israel-tel-aviv-jerusalem-reports-israeli-media-a7540476.htmlquote:The White House will on Monday announce that the US embassy in Israel is to move from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, according to an unconfirmed report by an Israeli news outlet. 
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Jan 22, 2017 18:12
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Why would the US want to do this? besides start the end times?
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Jan 22, 2017 18:24
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Honestly confused how anyone can justify the genocide and subjugation of Palestinians "because of the Holocaust" Wouldn't that same logic then apply to justifying Palestinian genocide of Isrealis? How many of your people need to be murdered before you get Carte Blanche to commit your own genocidal atrocities?
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Jan 22, 2017 18:27
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Milosh posted:Why would the US want to do this? besides start the end times? Given the sort of people whispering into Trump's ear, the contents of the inaugural speech, and the evangelical madness that has become largely fundamental to large parts of the Republican party, I am honestly wondering if this is not the aim pursued by elements of this administration.
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Jan 22, 2017 18:28
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Milosh posted:Why would the US want to do this? besides start the end times?
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Jan 22, 2017 18:30
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Milosh posted:Why would the US want to do this? besides start the end times? Probably mostly for the purpose of proving the US's commitment to Israel as an ally, since doesn't the Israeli government say Jerusalem is the capitol of Israel? I don't think it really does that any more than the aid and favorable trade agreements that are already in place do, but it's a symbolic gesture. I don't believe it's really meant to be a "gently caress YOU PALESTINIANS!" move, although it can be read as that.
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Jan 22, 2017 18:43
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It's super hilarious though, there's also a bill for the the United States to withdraw from the UN, which means Israel becomes even more of an international pariah because they will soon follow behind
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Jan 22, 2017 18:55
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Milosh posted:Why would the US want to do this? besides start the end times? Because Trump's son-in-law and very close adviser, who will also bring peace to the Middle East according to Trump, is an orthodox Jew who, from the few sources available on his stance on the conflict, is pro settlements?
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Jan 22, 2017 19:34
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Milosh posted:Why would the US want to do this? besides start the end times? The right and the US pro-Israel lobby has wanted it for quite some time, as Israel has consistently insisted that Jerusalem is their capital. US Israel policy has long been constrained by the contradiction between "Israel is our ally and we support them fully" and "we'd really like actual peace in the Middle East". Besides, this was a long time coming. The Jerusalem Embassy Act of 1995 required the US government to relocate the embassy to Jerusalem by 1999. The only reason it hasn't happened yet is because there were doubts about whether the law was actually constitutional, and therefore it included a provision allowing the president to waive the requirement for six months if they deem it necessary - a provision that has been exercised every six months for the last twelve years because the last three presidents have all considered the move to be very dangerous to US foreign policy. It's not like Trump cares about starting another intifada or ruining our standing in the world, though.
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Jan 22, 2017 20:41
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I think it's conceptually wrong to look for reasons behind Trump's action. The man is clueless and policy is driven by whatever advisor has managed to grease him over the years.
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Jan 22, 2017 21:07
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Given how fiercely the PA has protested the embassy move, promising all that the region will explode in nuclear chaos (and certainly a lot of their recent claims in the past few years about imminent conflict have proven to be overblown, and just for domestic consumption to let off steam), what are the chances this either blows over entirely, or registers at the level of another stabbing intifada? I mean poo poo, just say we're putting the embassy in West Jerusalem, this changes nothing with respect to the final status of East Jerusalem which is subject to negotiations. If you want to try to compromise, build the PA their own embassy in East Jerusalem. Miftan posted:So if i understand correctly, hakimashou is saying that if the Palestinians achieved meaningful goals with their violence it would be fine. He's basically saying they should start blowing up more important things, take a few cues from the IRA. That's a pretty bold opinion to have. Well are we talking IRA or real IRA here, and what era. If Hamas was calling hours in advance to avoid casualties, that's very different from randomly blowing up pizza parlors.
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Jan 22, 2017 21:12
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Yeah the worst thing about trump isn't that he's a scummy corrupt piece of poo poo, it's that other scummy pieces of poo poo who'd never have a chance holding the degree of power he has are quite chummy with him and since he has literally no idea what he's doing he's open to suggestions.
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Jan 22, 2017 21:15
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Main Paineframe posted:If the Palestinians stopped fighting back, Israel wouldn't be "fighting a peaceful people", they'd just be taking everything they want with no meaningful resistance, and no one would care since it would be "peaceful". In any case, the big - and rather obvious - flaw in the "terrorism doesn't work" argument is that peaceful negotiations haven't worked either, and in fact the current Prime Minister of Israel has been known to brag about sabotaging and undermining the outcome of peaceful negotiations. If the status quo is fine for the Palestinians then keep at it I guess...
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Jan 22, 2017 23:28
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Miftan posted:So if i understand correctly, hakimashou is saying that if the Palestinians achieved meaningful goals with their violence it would be fine. He's basically saying they should start blowing up more important things, take a few cues from the IRA. That's a pretty bold opinion to have. It would at least not just be a complete waste of human life then. There's a difference between a struggle you can win, where the ends might somehow justify the means, and mindless violence.
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Jan 22, 2017 23:29
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hakimashou posted:If the status quo is fine for the Palestinians then keep at it I guess... You have yet to suggest an alternative beyond "Palestinians stop using violent action and then everything magically gets better" hakimashou posted:It would at least not just be a complete waste of human life then. Please stop being a war crime apologist. There is no set of circumstances where war crimes are justifiable.
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Jan 23, 2017 01:08
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I don't know much about the embassy issue apart from the obvious bit that it'd be a symbolic gesture in favour of Israel done over the protest of the Palestinians, but there's been plenty of gestures like that before and I'm not sure what the obvious tit-for-tat response is that leads to some sort of chain reaction. If anything, if the Palestinians are provoked to respond aggressively to the news that would probably be Israel's perfect opportunity to test out how much more leeway the Trump administration will give them compared to Obama.
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Jan 23, 2017 05:36
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Kim Jong Il posted:If you want to try to compromise, build the PA their own embassy in East Jerusalem. Funny! As if the United States (""the honest broker") would ever dignify Palestine ("an equal partner in negotiations") with their own embassy. And as if the Israelis (another "equal partner") would ever allow it in the first place. Palestinian relations are handled from the consulate in Jerusalem ("the eternal capital of Israel").
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Jan 23, 2017 07:37
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So is anything going to happen to Netanyahu? I'm not super informed but I recall reading about multiple cases of corruption where he's involved (submarines, cigar gifts and that favorable news thing) but I haven't heard of any consequences. What's going on?
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Jan 23, 2017 10:36
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To this point no charges have been filed as of yet, the chief of police (a personal appointment of one Mr. Benjamin Netanyahu) stated yesterday that the police is in the final plateau and that its recommendations will be forwarded to the state attorney in the next few weeks.
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Jan 23, 2017 11:07
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He's going to be charged soon. Which I think requires him to resign by Israeli law?
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Jan 23, 2017 13:52
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Nope. He is only obligated to resign after he's convicted and after his appeals have been addressed by the high court. Olmert resigned, Bibi won't.
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Jan 23, 2017 15:01
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Maybe we've at last arrived at that breaking point so many have been talking about where Israel falls out of favour in the liberal circles of the world.
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Jan 23, 2017 20:00
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If we're banking on Trump making just enough guffaws to unite the world against Israel but not so many guffaws that the whole world descends into complete chaos then well, good luck to us all I guess.
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Jan 23, 2017 20:40
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emanresu tnuocca posted:If we're banking on Trump making just enough guffaws to unite the world against Israel but not so many guffaws that the whole world descends into complete chaos then well, good luck to us all I guess. If the US pulls out of the UN then israel loses that veto
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Jan 23, 2017 20:45
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edit: whoops, wrong thread, sorry
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Jan 23, 2017 20:46
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Nevvy Z posted:If the US pulls out of the UN then israel loses that veto Now that would be funny.
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Jan 23, 2017 20:59
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Nevvy Z posted:If the US pulls out of the UN then israel loses that veto I'm not 100% convinced Boris wouldn't carry the flame.
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Jan 23, 2017 21:28
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The Obama administration sent $221 million to the PA in it's last hours. https://apnews.com/b8446cbf5b504b1abaf49eb0d646367b/US-sent-$221-million-to-Palestinians-in-Obama's-last-hours
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Jan 23, 2017 22:27
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That page doesn't exist.
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Jan 23, 2017 22:58
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Ultramega posted:That page doesn't exist. It does if you believe! quote:Congress had initially approved the Palestinian funding in budget years 2015 and 2016, but at least two GOP lawmakers — Ed Royce of California, the chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, and Kay Granger of Texas, who sits on the House Appropriations Committee — had placed holds on it over moves the Palestinian Authority had taken to seek membership in international organizations. Congressional holds are generally respected by the executive branch but are not legally binding after funds have been allocated.
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Jan 23, 2017 23:06
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Why are the palestinians so upset about moving the embassy anyway?
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Jan 24, 2017 00:02
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hakimashou posted:Why are the palestinians so upset about moving the embassy anyway? I think it's not the embassy per se, but the recent attitude of "there's a new sheriff in town and from now on we'll do whatever we want and you can go gently caress yourself".
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Jan 24, 2017 00:49
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hakimashou posted:Why are the palestinians so upset about moving the embassy anyway? Because it legitimises the ethnic cleansing and other war crimes Israel commits against them including, you know, the attempted annexation of East Jerusalem.
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Jan 24, 2017 00:49
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Freezer posted:I think it's not the embassy per se, but the recent attitude of "there's a new sheriff in town and from now on we'll do whatever we want and you can go gently caress yourself". But it's been a controversial thing for literally decades as far as I can tell. It looks like presidents have been claiming they're going to move the US embassy since like the 70s? From what I gathered it looks like our congress passed a law requiring it to be moved, but presidents have refused because congress doesnt have that kind of say in foreign policy. I suppose its probably about moving closer to Jerusalem being the capital of Israel. Anyway I hope people dont fight over it its a dumb reason to fight.
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Jan 24, 2017 00:54
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hakimashou posted:Anyway I hope people dont fight over it its a dumb reason to fight. Which is why presidents kept delaying the move.
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Jan 24, 2017 02:06
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hakimashou posted:Anyway I hope people dont fight over it its a dumb reason to fight. *Ethnically cleanses the Palestinian* "u mad??"
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Jan 25, 2017 23:12
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