|
Hey guys its a gimmick just an fyi
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2017 04:41
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 28, 2024 09:30 |
|
|
Neeksy posted:I'd love more organized marches or political fairs for organizations to get in touch with the public in-person while also acting as a nice "gently caress you Trump" symbolic gesture overall. gently caress symbolic gestures. You organize, then you organize to fight, then you fight. Rinse, fuckin Repeat. Clever thinkpieces and raising awareness parties will not save us
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2017 04:43
|
|
|
Tight Booty Shorts posted:Tell me more about yourhome built ideology advancing machine MIGF buy yourself plat and we'll grab drinks to politic chat i truly believe that all problems in america can be solved with alcohol and friendly conversation
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2017 04:44
|
|
|
Error 404 posted:gently caress symbolic gestures. Organizing people means using symbols. It's like yardsigns. Having a yard sign will never gain you any votes. Not having them and telling people who ask for them "They don't matter" or "You're statistically insignificant" will lose you votes however. Symbolic gestures that take the form of large movements in person can be valuable. I agree, keyboard warriors are useless, but people out in the world physically going to these things are not, especially as a recruitment tool.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2017 04:45
|
|
|
GOOD TIMES ON METH posted:Hey guys its a gimmick just an fyi Yeah, but goons can't help but take the bait
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2017 04:46
|
|
|
My Imaginary GF posted:buy yourself plat and we'll grab drinks to politic chat Buy me plat and I'll take you up on it 
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2017 04:47
|
|
|
mugrim posted:Organizing people means using symbols. they are an excuse for individuals to not participate. You make them earn a yardsign by writing, raising, or getting votes; to just give them away as a symbolic gesture costs you time and money; time is money, and money is loving votes. Unless folks are earning their trinkets of bullshit, it doesnt loving win. You don't win by focusing on symbolic gestures, you win by getting the most votes. Giving handouts doesn't loving win votes, it enables a complacent, entitled mindset.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2017 04:48
|
|
|
migf's originally-ironic-but-not-so-much-anymore-not-that-i-can-blame-him posts are mere golden drops in the poo poo pile that is the posts of people who earnestly and sincerely believe that racism will end if we support minority billionaires that work towards suppressing minorities
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2017 04:49
|
|
|
what i am saying is that this poo poo is weak and doesn't even qualify as poo poo and i'm disappointed in all of you for engaging with it. including myself i'm 3 numbers into completing my sudoku
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2017 04:51
|
|
|
VirtualStranger posted:This post from the July conventions is absolutely hilarious in hindsight VirtualStranger posted:Don't forget about this gem. These are great, quoting these is great. Quoting MIGF is not great. Don't quote MIGF.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2017 04:51
|
|
|
I see MIGF ia back to derail decent threads with food pics once he starts seeing a conversation he doesn't like This forum was actually decent the past month. MIGF was on probation for a month. Coincidence?
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2017 04:52
|
|
|
pizza is an open faced sandwich
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2017 04:54
|
|
|
paranoid randroid posted:pizza is an open faced sandwich everyone is now triggered
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2017 04:55
|
|
|
migf is tammany hall made flesh
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2017 04:57
|
|
|
My Imaginary GF posted:loving men like you built the hydrogen bomb. Men like you thought it up. You thikn you're so creative. You don't know what it's like to really create something; to create a life; to feel it growing inside you. All you know how to create is death and destruction not a single one of you recognized the terminator quote? the gently caress? This is why the democrats lost
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2017 04:57
|
|
|
Terminator is a registered Republican, gently caress Terminator
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2017 05:00
|
|
|
My Imaginary GF posted:they are an excuse for individuals to not participate. You make them earn a yardsign by writing, raising, or getting votes; to just give them away as a symbolic gesture costs you time and money; time is money, and money is loving votes. Unless folks are earning their trinkets of bullshit, it doesnt loving win. If money was votes Hillary would be a lot happier right now. Money helps, but you have to ask people to vote for you and organizer and unfortunately or fortunately, humans are social creatures who value symbols and part of your volunteer recruitment will entail freebies. Believing you're entitled to votes is dumb, but so is pretending humans aren't human and you can somehow get them to not be. This is like knowing local sports. Yeah, it's dumb as gently caress that a solid chunk of people want their reps to know their local teams and poo poo as it does nothing to materially improve anyone's life, but that's just how people are.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2017 05:02
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2017 05:05
|
|
|
What we need is a militant left
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2017 05:09
|
|
|
Excelzior posted:this meme needs to loving die Sir this is an Internet message board
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2017 05:11
|
|
|
docbeard posted:Sir this is an Internet message board sir you are not real
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2017 05:15
|
|
|
My Imaginary GF posted:they are an excuse for individuals to not participate. You make them earn a yardsign by writing, raising, or getting votes; to just give them away as a symbolic gesture costs you time and money; time is money, and money is loving votes. Unless folks are earning their trinkets of bullshit, it doesnt loving win. one of the most crucial lessons an organizer can learn is to never link volunteering to extrinsic rewards like yard signs, bumper stickers, coffee mugs, or whatever else. there is no easier way to kill a volunteer's motivation to volunteer than to say "you came in twice, you earned a yard sign!" volunteers are motivated by two things - that warm, fuzzy feeling you get for helping a cause you believe in, and recognition. that's how you keep them coming back shift after shift. once you add that extrinsic reward, it totally wipes out the fuzzy feeling. yard signs suck. they're a fact of life and they will never disappear, but they suck and are pretty useless. but yes, they help get people in the office. a very small percentage of those people will actually sign up for a shift. and in a non-tangible way it's nice for improving the volunteer experience - it sucks to have tell people "sorry we don't have any signs" when you have someone come in who really wants one. but they will always be a serious source of drama and bitching, even when you have a ton of them. i think mugrim is kind of exaggerating, i hope most organizers aren't telling people "oh yard signs are worthless" when they come in the door and are a bit more diplomatic about it. it's easier to say "oh we already handed out all the yard signs at the moment, don't know when the next shipment is, but i really appreciate you coming in and showing your support" and then following it up with a volunteer ask. the only thing more worthless than a yard sign is an argument with potential volunteers about the value of a yard sign.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2017 05:16
|
|
|
EugeneJ posted:This forum was actually decent the past month. MIGF was on probation for a month. Coincidence? my regression analysis of this data shows that r2=1
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2017 05:18
|
|
|
Concerned Citizen posted:one of the most crucial lessons an organizer can learn is to never link volunteering to extrinsic rewards like yard signs, bumper stickers, coffee mugs, or whatever else. there is no easier way to kill a volunteer's motivation to volunteer than to say "you came in twice, you earned a yard sign!" volunteers are motivated by two things - that warm, fuzzy feeling you get for helping a cause you believe in, and recognition. that's how you keep them coming back shift after shift. once you add that extrinsic reward, it totally wipes out the fuzzy feeling.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2017 05:22
|
|
|
fits my needs posted:I think most people can tell when the "slick" campaign worker driven by data analytics is talking down to them and bullshitting them lol. anyone who thinks fos are slick hasn't spent much time in a field office
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2017 05:24
|
|
|
EugeneJ posted:I see MIGF ia back to derail decent threads with food pics once he starts seeing a conversation he doesn't like actually it was because TBS was also on probation
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2017 05:24
|
|
|
Concerned Citizen posted:i think mugrim is kind of exaggerating, i hope most organizers aren't telling people "oh yard signs are worthless" when they come in the door and are a bit more diplomatic about it. it's easier to say "oh we already handed out all the yard signs at the moment, don't know when the next shipment is, but i really appreciate you coming in and showing your support" and then following it up with a volunteer ask. the only thing more worthless than a yard sign is an argument with potential volunteers about the value of a yard sign. Nah Holmes, I was citing something super specific quote:Michigan operatives relay stories like one about an older woman in Flint who showed up at a Clinton campaign office, asking for a lawn sign and offering to canvass, being told these were not “scientifically” significant ways of increasing the vote, and leaving, never to return. A crew of building trade workers showed up at another office looking to canvass, but, confused after being told there was no literature to hand out like in most campaigns, also left and never looked back.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2017 05:29
|
|
|
Raskolnikov38 posted:my regression analysis of this data shows that r2=1 Stats goons!!
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2017 05:33
|
|
|
of course it happens. i've seen it happen, and i've had to lecture people twice in my life to stop being assholes to yard sign people. it comes down to proper training and having a well-run program. everything i've heard about michigan tells me that the program in that state was very poor, and that's why i always chuckle when i see michigan staff trying to shift the blame to brooklyn for their own failures. brooklyn certainly has its share of sins when it comes to that state, but i'd say the first sin was putting idiots in charge of their field program. like i said, i hope most fos are smart enough to not be assholes to folks asking for signs. and i think that's largely the case, but stuff like that is always going to pop up for sure.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2017 05:35
|
|
|
Concerned Citizen posted:of course it happens. i've seen it happen, and i've had to lecture people twice in my life to stop being assholes to yard sign people. it comes down to proper training and having a well-run program. everything i've heard about michigan tells me that the program in that state was very poor, and that's why i always chuckle when i see michigan staff trying to shift the blame to brooklyn for their own failures. brooklyn certainly has its share of sins when it comes to that state, but i'd say the first sin was putting idiots in charge of their field program. It's top down. If an entire state can go rogue like that, ESPECIALLY A SWING STATE, it means Brooklyn sucked too. There's no such thing where you lose a swing state due to pure absenteeism and it's not the fault of both the candidate and the their team, especially when you literally had buses full of union workers driving hundreds of miles to the state you couldn't manage and your staff angrily tells them to go gently caress a goat and turn around.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2017 05:39
|
|
|
Concerned Citizen posted:one of the most crucial lessons an organizer can learn is to never link volunteering to extrinsic rewards like yard signs, bumper stickers, coffee mugs, or whatever else. there is no easier way to kill a volunteer's motivation to volunteer than to say "you came in twice, you earned a yard sign!" volunteers are motivated by two things - that warm, fuzzy feeling you get for helping a cause you believe in, and recognition. that's how you keep them coming back shift after shift. once you add that extrinsic reward, it totally wipes out the fuzzy feeling. what is the function of the behavior behind yard signs? if someone really loving wanted one, they would create their own. people want to feel like they belong to the brand without putting any work in, and i say gently caress anyone who enables that sort of complacent entitled mindset. make them loving work for poo poo or create their own. that person wants a yard sign as an excuse to not get out and win votes, when you should be buying votes 24/7/365 you need a loving machine that means something, not a part-time office with dropped-in staff. You need 24/7/365 campaigning from everyone at your organization. Who you buy a car from, who you rent from, who you drink, all of it should advance an agenda of winning for democrats. If it don't loving win votes, don't do it. I don't give a poo poo if yardsigns made your life as an organizer easier, you should be a department head on the public dole who can tell useless fucks looking for an excuse to not get involved to gently caress off. Folks should be so enthusiastic for you that they make their own signs in the hopes that you, for a brief moment, recognize them. gently caress yardsigns and the complacement mindset which they enable. thats because clinton staffed her campaign with amateurs, not machine professionals. staff shoulda already knew that woman, known what sorts of arguments she responds to, and spoke to her in terms she would appreciate not some fuckn college sophmore who wrote their first polisci paper last semester. college students are eyecandy and rewards for winning, not professionals who understand community needs.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2017 05:42
|
|
|
My Imaginary GF posted:thats because clinton staffed her campaign with amateurs Where did the  go?
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2017 05:44
|
|
|
Nonsense posted:Where did the to the downticket, obviously
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2017 05:46
|
|
|
Nonsense posted:Where did the weapons
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2017 05:47
|
|
|
Concerned Citizen posted:of course it happens. i've seen it happen, and i've had to lecture people twice in my life to stop being assholes to yard sign people. it comes down to proper training and having a well-run program. everything i've heard about michigan tells me that the program in that state was very poor, and that's why i always chuckle when i see michigan staff trying to shift the blame to brooklyn for their own failures. brooklyn certainly has its share of sins when it comes to that state, but i'd say the first sin was putting idiots in charge of their field program. there shouldnt be a need for more training, by the time you can officially work a campaign you shoulda been fully trained. there is a divide in america along age, where we've started placing folk in generations and silo'ing 'em off from each other. Back in the first gilded age, the heavies and party boys would intermingle every fuckin day. By the time you finished school you were ready to be hired by the party or tell someone who fuckn sent ya, and theyd listen! If the youth no longer see the party as the vehicle for a good job and secure life, then the party will never be able to provide the nation with prosperity. I loving highly recommend everyone read Plunkitt from Tammany Hall to see political organizing done well
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2017 05:48
|
|
|
Nonsense posted:Where did the california and new york media markets stupid loving decision by a loser who wasn't concerned with winning first and foremost
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2017 05:48
|
|
|
mugrim posted:It's top down. If an entire state can go rogue like that, it means Brooklyn sucked too. There's no such thing where you lose a swing state due to pure absenteeism and it's not the fault of both the candidate and the their team, especially when you literally had buses full of union workers driving hundreds of miles to the state you couldn't manage and your staff angrily tells them to go gently caress a goat and turn around. yeah, i'm not defending brooklyn. one serious issue from what i've heard is there wasn't really a clear chain of command in brooklyn. like there was no one person in charge of making sure michigan followed the program. that said, there's also a certain level of having to have faith in the people you hire. it's extremely difficult for a national campaign to ensure every office has quality interactions with both volunteers and voters. van doesn't have an "i was an rear end in a top hat to this guy asking for a yard sign" code, so basically you're reduced to secret shopping and no one does that (but imo they should). so you gotta hire the right people - if you hire the right people for the right job, you don't have these problems. brooklyn made giving primary staffers good jobs too large of a priority, and so you ended up with bad staffers running states. stuff like this is why i've always been a big advocate of improving our training of junior and mid-level staff as a party. we spend a lot of time doing trainings, but waste too much time with stuff that either isn't relevant or is relevant but not really helpful advice (like, half the organizer commandments). like, how many staff trainings teach fos how to persuade voters? how many seriously teach their fos about important campaign issues so they can speak about it intelligently without needing a script in front of them? not very many! Concerned Citizen has issued a correction as of 05:52 on Jan 23, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2017 05:49
|
|
|
Concerned Citizen posted:yeah, i'm not defending brooklyn. one serious issue from what i've heard is there wasn't really a clear chain of command in brooklyn. like there was no one person in charge of making sure michigan followed the program. that said, there's also a certain level of having to have faith in the people you hire. it's extremely difficult for a national campaign to ensure every office has quality interactions with both volunteers and voters. I'm working on a longform article about just this. This is straight out of her 2008 campaign madness, as is almost everything else. She ran a god awful campaign then, and the only thing she seems to have learned is that appealing to the center by talking about the insignificance of minorities/downplaying their role is not a good strategy. Other than that it's almost exactly the same and it's hilarious that one boondoggle became another. Trump is a monster and a fascist, I held my nose to vote for Clinton, but people should have zero doubt she would have been terrible. She can't even manage a basic loving campaign. Bernie breaking 40% alone should have been the first clue she's just a nepotism case who advanced fast. I've always liked Sanders a lot, but he's not the most universally charismatic guy and him doing as well as he did showed a serious amount of discontent with Clinton and what she represents.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2017 05:57
|
|
|
mugrim posted:I'm working on a longform article about just this. sir please there are customers waiting
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2017 05:59
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 28, 2024 09:30 |
|
|
also it goes without saying that states are pretty silo'ed (they don't even work for hfa, they work for state parties) so each state may have very different programs. i've heard a ton of complaints about wisconsin's field program, but (for example) nothing but good things about north carolina's. and obviously many of them did some things well and others not so well, or sometimes you just have some county party chair who had a problem with his local field office and decided to talk to politico about how it was most definitely a problem everywhere in the state, or the country, or whatever. very few people are in a position to accurately assess an entire state's program, but the people who only speak to their actual knowledge they have aren't the ones who end up being quoted.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2017 06:00
|
|