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If anything I'm disappointed that the orbital habitats aren't O'Neill cylinders. I'm sure there'll be a mod for that.
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Jan 23, 2017 22:19
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Stellaris is set in your classic trek/wars style science-fantasy setting where artificial gravity is no thang so colonies can just be big space buildings with a single "up"
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Jan 23, 2017 22:22
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Arglebargle III posted:One really easy flavor injection: the tile clearance techs could use real names. Right now they just say what they do. Mountain Removal should be 'Operation Ploughshare'.
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Jan 23, 2017 22:24
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I always imagined it less as removing the thing and more laying the more expensive engineering and infrastructure to mass develop cities and such there, to learn to adapt to them. So you're not removing the mountains, you're just investing in swiss-levels of mountain infrastructure to make use of them.
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Jan 23, 2017 22:26
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Baronjutter posted:I always imagined it less as removing the thing and more laying the more expensive engineering and infrastructure to mass develop cities and such there, to learn to adapt to them. So you're not removing the mountains, you're just investing in swiss-levels of mountain infrastructure to make use of them. Yeah, I'm honestly not sure exactly how removing an active volcano is supposed to work.
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Jan 23, 2017 22:28
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Wiz posted:Yeah, I'm honestly not sure exactly how removing an active volcano is supposed to work. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFAgvYlG0fs
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Jan 23, 2017 22:30
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Wiz posted:Yeah, I'm honestly not sure exactly how removing an active volcano is supposed to work. 
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Jan 23, 2017 22:30
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To make this argument closer to the ship design one before, I guess I'll be the guy who says "I would not have played Stellaris if there was no ground combat", but Wiz already said it will stay even if reworked, so it really doesn't matter... I know removing them might make the game flow more smoother and their very existence don't really have much relevance but just by feelings alone I don't really like when everything is solved with spaceships, especially in Stellaris where there is more focus on the population. Maybe it's just me but I feel like if we want to simulate intergalactic warfare, there should be more than just space combat. Also, what's the point in enslaving the strong goat people to make them into your frontline troops if there is no ground combat? I feel similarly towards the grid and pop system as well, I like it how it gives the feeling of an actual settlement with populations living in it (It does have the sideffect common in 4X games where it makes colonies look like single cities rather than planet spanning cities), where pure numbers and sliders would just make it feel empty.
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Jan 23, 2017 22:30
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Wiz posted:Yeah, I'm honestly not sure exactly how removing an active volcano is supposed to work. Would love to see some of the blockers or terrains tied into bonuses. Clear that toxic jungle and find a food bonus under it, "clear" the volcano and have it converted into a juicy geothermal energy bonus. "clear" the dangerous predators (by putting them into huge enclosures and poo poo) and get a bio/sociology bonus.
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Jan 23, 2017 22:32
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Bholder posted:To make this argument closer to the ship design one before, I guess I'll be the guy who says "I would not have played Stellaris if there was no ground combat", but Wiz already said it will stay even if reworked, so it really doesn't matter... I just introduced (paid) features for having specific species as battle thralls, so no worries on the front of goat-warriors going away. I also most certainly wouldn't just replace the grid with numbers and sliders, or get rid of pops. Preserving the flavor and feeling of both systems is very important to me, I just think planets don't feel enough like planets even now.
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Jan 23, 2017 22:34
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Make the window circular and have isometric squares like Ascendancy or use hexagons. Planets just aren't square.
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Jan 23, 2017 22:36
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Wiz posted:Yeah, I'm honestly not sure exactly how removing an active volcano is supposed to work. The way the mechanic is portrayed adds to a complaint I have about the planet-level Stellaris experience: when you get enough tech, the whole appearance and feel of planets get very homogeneous. Geological features are (or appear to be) bulldozed away, and planetary climates / graphics get standardized via terraforming. I'd love to have a reason to keep some visual diversity and show some geological features in my planets.
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Jan 23, 2017 22:36
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Wiz posted:Yeah, I'm honestly not sure exactly how removing an active volcano is supposed to work. Hell, some tile "blockers" should have the potential to provide benefits, given the right infrastructure and investment. A volcano could theoretically be put to use for industrial applications or power generation. Large sinkholes could be used for massive garbage/toxic waste dumps, dramatically improving happiness or habitability in non-adjacent tiles. Jungles could be an abundant source of food or science, depending on your civ's opinions on harvesting or studying biodiversity. I could probably come up with a use for every single blocker. You could balance it by making the associated facilities require a lot of power to maintain, but it might make certain planets a lot more appealing, especially in the late game when the necessary techs become available, all the low-hanging fruit has already been snatched up, and you have more power output than you can spend anyway.
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Jan 23, 2017 22:41
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Bholder posted:I'll be the guy who says "I would not have played Stellaris if there was no ground combat" 
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Jan 23, 2017 22:41
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Conskill posted:The way the mechanic is portrayed adds to a complaint I have about the planet-level Stellaris experience: when you get enough tech, the whole appearance and feel of planets get very homogeneous. Geological features are (or appear to be) bulldozed away, and planetary climates / graphics get standardized via terraforming. Yeah, it would be really cool if removing the blocker transformed the tile into a visually distinct tile based on the blocker's type. A kelp forest transforms into a bunch of kelp surrounding an underwater dome, etc. Maybe even have a chance for resource bonuses given by these special tiles? The kelp forest provides +1 food now that it's tamed and farmed.
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Jan 23, 2017 22:49
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On the topic of ground combat: I've played a lot of space 4x games since the first Master of Orion, but I don't remember a single one with engaging ground combat. Which games did it better than Stellaris (which is not great, but adequate)?
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Jan 23, 2017 23:08
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empire at war
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Jan 23, 2017 23:08
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I didn't mind it in moo2. It wasn't that interesting but it was simple. Slap some transports in your fleet and your troops are automatically what ever your best tech is. In the early game they were a bit pricy so you'd often have the meaningful choice of bombardment invasion. Bombard them too much and you might destroy the colony and the valuable pops and buildings, don't bombard them enough and your attacking troops might fail. Sometimes you'd win, but not leave enough troops behind and they'd rebel successfully. You never had to babysit transports or do any micro, it was just a ship type you added to your fleet to support invasions. moo1 did it in a rather brutal total war sort of way. There were no troops, you simply armed millions and millions of your citizens and sent them off in transports. There was no occupation, only total genocide. You had to transport enough over to the enemy to wipe out their entire population. Once again this gave you the actual meaningful choice of bombardment vs invasion. Invade and you get all the juicy factories, bombard and you need fewer troops. Your own population is being lost in invasions too, so too many costly invasions could see half the population in your empire dead in a meaningless war. Vicky did this to an extent, with units tied to pops. In a space war game war really should be a bloody thing, with entire pops being converted into troops and sent off to die. A huge multi-planet ground war should have the ability to seriously kill off a lot of your and the enemy's population.
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Jan 23, 2017 23:15
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Tarquinn posted:On the topic of ground combat: I've played a lot of space 4x games since the first Master of Orion, but I don't remember a single one with engaging ground combat. Which games did it better than Stellaris (which is not great, but adequate)? Master of Orion 3
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Jan 23, 2017 23:16
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In Galactic Civilizations, you slap transport modules on ships, and when they take off from a planet, you can choose to load them up with population from your planet as soldiers. This means that theoretically, 100% of your population are soldiers, considering you can fully depopulate a planet by loading them all up in ships and attacking the enemy. Anyway, something similar could be done in stellaris. IMO, there should be maybe a specific bar outside of the planet's "grid" of citizens that aren't farmers nor scientists or any of that jazz, but simply consumers/people in service industry. There you can stack pops indefinitely as long as you can feed them, and maybe that same spot is where you can convert them into armies? And then you can send these army pops around by just clicking on them and sending them to the enemy planet? Although typing that out, it just feels like even more micromanagement. I don't know, I mostly want a way/reason to stack pops outside of the grid to build megaplanets that are overcrowded and to make it feel like my society isn't 33% farmers, 50% miners and a bunch of scientists.
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Jan 23, 2017 23:29
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I don't think that converting pops into soldiers will really address the "too much micromanagement to be fun" complaint tbh
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Jan 23, 2017 23:32
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Semi-joking suggestion: put a slider somewhere in your government tab for ground forces strength. The higher the slides, the more often your closest starbases send out armies to attack the nearest enemy planet they can besiege. Crank it up to maximum as soon as you wipe out their fleet and watch the magic happen.
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Jan 23, 2017 23:53
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Arglebargle III posted:Sword of the Stars removed planetary buildings from the space 4x equation and nothing was lost. You don't need to click 50 times to make resource collection numbers go from +5 to +15. And Sword of the Stars II went one step further by abstracting the ship movement system to some kind of retarded order-system where you didn't even have direct control over your fleets anymore, therefore removing even more clicks! Anyway, I think we have discussed armies in Stellaris to death now, at least until Wiz can start reworking them.
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Jan 23, 2017 23:56
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....Would be nice to visit primitive worlds and have them take to worshipping my spaceships as gods.
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Jan 23, 2017 23:58
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I think wiz has a handle on why armies in their current form are bad and correctly wants to re-do that system, so no need to convince him. I'd love to hear some of his ideas, for that, for pops/planets, and for warscore/peace/diplomacy changes too. Baronjutter fucked around with this message at 00:04 on Jan 24, 2017 |
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Jan 24, 2017 00:00
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oddium posted:empire at war That was a really bad game
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Jan 24, 2017 00:18
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Lunethex posted:That was a really bad game Yeah seriously. I didn't play it a ton because of that but the ground segments were the absolute worst part of the game.
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Jan 24, 2017 00:37
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Tarquinn posted:On the topic of ground combat: I've played a lot of space 4x games since the first Master of Orion, but I don't remember a single one with engaging ground combat. Which games did it better than Stellaris (which is not great, but adequate)? Master of Orion 3.
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Jan 24, 2017 00:38
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Lunethex posted:That was a really bad game FILL YOUR HANDS, YOU SON OF A BITCH!
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Jan 24, 2017 00:45
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Blinks77 posted:....Would be nice to visit primitive worlds and have them take to worshipping my spaceships as gods. There's a mod for that. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=756110740&searchtext=god
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Jan 24, 2017 00:53
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Kitchner posted:That's the equivalent of a load of refugees turning up in like 1800s America, setting up a new town just outside of New York, and then declaring independence. I see you've never heard of a place called Kosovo. That's pretty much exactly what happened and, unsurprisingly, the rest of the world wasn't too happy with the whole 'forcefully remove them' solution. On topic: Is it intended for curator enclaves to repeatedly sell me information on space mysteries that have long since been solved by AI empires? Seems lovely.
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Jan 24, 2017 01:12
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I'm struggling to imagine the combination of preferences that makes "no ground combat" a dealbreaker but not "ground combat as it is currently implemented in stellaris"
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Jan 24, 2017 01:29
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I finally bit the bullet and got the game. Whats the best way to start the game and be confused and horrified? Is there a space Ireland/Ottomans to use CK2/EUIV metaphors? Have they followed the fine example of their later games and included a tutorial or is this going to be one of those "the best way to learn to swim is to jump into the pool" deals?
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Jan 24, 2017 02:42
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I just like the concept of ground combat. I was pretty annoyed by Sword of the Stars and other 4X games not including it after playing MMO3 in the past, so I was relieved when I heard Stellaris will come with ground combat. (and Stellaris ground combat looked more interesting than what it actually is in first glance)
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Jan 24, 2017 02:45
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Wiz posted:Yeah, I'm honestly not sure exactly how removing an active volcano is supposed to work. Volcano Removal -> Deep Crust Engineering Advances in material technology and deep-shaft mining techniques allow geo-engineering at previously unthinkable depths and temperatures. Magma hotspots can now be exploited, suppressed, or even relocated. Toxic Kelp Removal -> Ocean Ecology Management Given enough processing power, networked sensors and distributed stations, even the ocean currents can be managed to a fine level of control. Glacier Removal -> Climate Control Network Orbital systems of mirrors and shades can effect dramatic changes in planetary climates, when managed properly. Mountain Removal -> Planetary Resurfacing With the advent of clean fusion, automation, and matter compression technologies, it was only a matter of time before mountain top removal became mountain range removal. Dense Jungle Removal: Selective Defoliants Thorough cataloging, gene sequencing, and computer modeling of exobotanical ecosystems, coupled with gene editing and dispersal mechanisms, will allow us to reshape alien plant communities to our liking. Quicksand Basin Removal -> Soil Remediation The process of soil deposition normally takes millions of years. With advanced fracking, chemical engineering, and hydraulic management technologies even the poorest substrate can be turned into fertile topsoil. Noxious Swamp Removal -> Xeno-Hydraulic Mastery Sentient races have been reclaiming swampland for thousands of years. A coordinated system of modular aquaducts, pump stations, chemical remediation crawlers and automated soil compactors can reclaim land at unprecedented speeds. Deep Sinkhole Removal -> Subterranean Colonization Many planets exhibit extensive subsurface voids. Subterranean exploration, exploitation, and construction techniques can greatly increase the habitable area of some worlds. Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 02:55 on Jan 24, 2017 |
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Jan 24, 2017 02:50
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Argas posted:Yeah seriously. I didn't play it a ton because of that but the ground segments were the absolute worst part of the game. Undoubtedly. I apologize for this off-topic grumbling but I had some serious rose-colored glasses about that game for some reason. Then I played it again years later and wondered how the hell I ever liked it. The very first ground mission I had as the rebels and one Empire tank buggy thing, programmed to do exactly this bullshit maneuver, just runs all of them over like a god drat lawnmower, gets the defeat screen plastered in my face, and leads me to quitting and uninstalling in the first hour.
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Jan 24, 2017 02:51
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Deceitful Penguin posted:I finally bit the bullet and got the game. There's a tutorial! It walks you through almost everything without being intrusive. I liked it! Honestly, just make the coolest looking alien you want and play. I made a bird empire full of peaceful explorers and so far it's been neat - I'm still really bad at learning how to conduct war, but that's fine, I've got some strong allies to lean on.
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Jan 24, 2017 02:51
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I think it would be really cool if tile blockers gave some kind of bonus to the tile once they were 'fixed', like someone said earlier. Kelp gives extra food, volcanoes give extra energy, mountains = minerals?
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Jan 24, 2017 03:35
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Milky Moor posted:I think it would be really cool if tile blockers gave some kind of bonus to the tile once they were 'fixed', like someone said earlier. Kelp gives extra food, volcanoes give extra energy, mountains = minerals? Or even an adjacency bonus when they're still around. Volcanoes for everyone!
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Jan 24, 2017 03:42
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The ability to weaponise said volcanoes as planetary defence batteries when adjacent to a planetary shield generator would also be much appreciated. ..and provide a reason to build shield generators!
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Jan 24, 2017 04:00
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