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Should it be legal for other people to assault you if they disagree with you? This poll is closed. |
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| No |
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| Total: | 328 votes | ||
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Kilroy posted:That's not Richard Spencer. Richard Spencer had a pretty unremarkable middle class upbringing, and while I'm sure he'd love to tell you all the hardships he's faced, he has never had to face hardship on account of the color of his skin or his religion or any other aspect of his identity. He's an otherwise unremarkable white man of modest status and means who is super loving turbo pissed that society doesn't recognize the true greatness that he's certain beats within his Nazi heart, and doesn't shower him with the rewards he feels he so richly deserves. He is, in other words, a weaponized spoiled brat. Reasoning with the Richard Spencers of the world is a waste of time, because they didn't reason their way to Nazism, they turned to it out of desperation for a greatness they feel they are owed. You can't even placate them with praise - it will never be enough. They are a lost cause and the only remedy for their poison is to beat them back into the shadows where they can cry tears of bitter rage and nurse their wounds until they dare to come back into the light of day, and that's when you beat them again. We have to be vigilant against someone who would crawl back mewling to his house after a sucker punch because that's the kind of person able to summon the political power to turn this country in new Hitler world. Someone who is an actual threat would be the type to surround himself with armed security and in some states be legally able ventilate you in self defense.
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Jan 24, 2017 01:46
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i will poison all of the pumpkin spice and kill all of the white people, forever 
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Jan 24, 2017 01:48
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Toasticle posted:We have to be vigilant against someone who would crawl back mewling to his house after a sucker punch because that's the kind of person able to summon the political power to turn this country in new Hitler world. well since person 1 helped person 2 get into the white house, punch em both
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Jan 24, 2017 01:53
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esto es malo posted:well since person 1 helped person 2 get into the white house, punch em both Agreed. Also if they don't punch a fascists hard enough, they are probably a secret fascist themselves, and should be punched.
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Jan 24, 2017 02:07
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Call Me Charlie posted:I'll actually try to serious post.
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Jan 24, 2017 02:48
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Is it permissible to use my Assault Rifle on "the fash?" Asking for a friend.
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Jan 24, 2017 02:50
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ate poo poo on live tv posted:Is it permissible to use my Assault Rifle on "the fash?" Asking for a friend. Only if it is for non lethal beatings.
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Jan 24, 2017 02:55
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ate poo poo on live tv posted:Is it permissible to use my Assault Rifle on "the fash?" Asking for a friend. Worked great in the '30s and '40s. 5/5, would do again.
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Jan 24, 2017 02:56
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Shbobdb posted:Worked great in the '30s and '40s. 5/5, would do again. For some reason the democrats keep wanting to ban my assault rifle. Perhaps they are "fash apologia"? So who here has been "bashing" prominent government officials?
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Jan 24, 2017 03:30
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you can still bash the fash without an assault rifle
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Jan 24, 2017 03:32
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ate poo poo on live tv posted:For some reason the democrats keep wanting to ban my assault rifle. Perhaps they are "fash apologia"? So who here has been "bashing" prominent government officials? dont stop im almost there
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Jan 24, 2017 03:32
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Call Me Charlie posted:Are you cool with this line of thought if it said communist instead of nazi? 1) Nazis and communists are not strict philosophical opposites; one has nationalism and racial supremacy baked into its philosophy while the other does not. 2) Are you talking about a particular communist hate group that is calling for genocide of other groups? In which case yes, absolutely. If not, then you're being disingenuous. Because, as I will keep repeating, Nazis are a hate group
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Jan 24, 2017 03:36
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ate poo poo on live tv posted:For some reason the democrats keep wanting to ban my assault rifle. Perhaps they are "fash apologia"? So who here has been "bashing" prominent government officials? Yeah? gently caress them.
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Jan 24, 2017 03:59
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I don't think it should be legal to assault people I'm also not going to wail and be upset that someone decked a Nazi It's almost like a thing can be legally wrong but morally defensible
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Jan 24, 2017 04:02
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For everyone who's showing concern: was it morally acceptable for seal teen six to MURDER and then desecrate the corpse of osama been laden, who was defenseless and never shot no body?
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Jan 24, 2017 04:30
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ate poo poo on live tv posted:For some reason the democrats keep wanting to ban my assault rifle. Perhaps they are "fash apologia"? So who here has been "bashing" prominent government officials? Also everyone look at this baby, comes into a thread about "is it okay to violently resist nazism" to whine about how government wants to take their shooty toy
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Jan 24, 2017 04:40
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I feel like under society that's worth living in, right now, assault has to be illegal, and you need protection for speech. But in a time of crisis, when you have nazis marching and advocating genocide, I can't condemn people who attack them, because nazis would happily abolish every single protection that they hide behind. They don't care about free speech, so why should they be protected by it? They'd be happy, and are happy, hurting others, they only care about getting caught, so why should they be protected by laws against assault? But you can't really legally enforce that, because you cannot read minds objectively, so you could not prove it to a legal standard. People saying 'kill whitey' should also be decked, for what it's worth. No one's getting genocided.
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Jan 24, 2017 04:56
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Rodatose posted:Also everyone look at this baby, comes into a thread about "is it okay to violently resist nazism" to whine about how government wants to take their shooty toy Pretty difficult to fight organized fascism without arms imo. Plus the government should be focused on passing UHC instead of pissing away time/money/effort on cultural wedge issues. Rodatose posted:For everyone who's showing concern: was it morally acceptable for seal teen six to MURDER and then desecrate the corpse of osama been laden, who was defenseless and never shot no body? Osama shouldn't have been assassinated, he should have been arrested.
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Jan 24, 2017 04:58
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ate poo poo on live tv posted:Osama shouldn't have been assassinated, he should have been arrested. a hot take this punchy should be deemed assault 
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Jan 24, 2017 05:09
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ate poo poo on live tv posted:For some reason the democrats keep wanting to ban my assault rifle. Perhaps they are "fash apologia"? So who here has been "bashing" prominent government officials? I'm OK with guns being illegal and with using illegal guns to illegally murder bad people. This is what love in public looks like:  The world would be a better place if they had "bashed the fash" on the Californian who banned their assault rifles.
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Jan 24, 2017 06:31
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how could you guys talk about punching people expressing the desire to purge minorities from america? how can you be such savages!! 
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Jan 24, 2017 11:19
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by being violent, you give them license to be violent! we have to set a good example!!Southern Poverty Law Center posted:neo-Nazis and lovers of the Confederate battle flag targeted police, government officials, black churchgoers, Muslims, Jews, schoolchildren, Marines, abortion providers, members of the Black Lives Matter protest movement, and even drug dealers. oh, they're already being violent? well if we're violent they'll only get more violent so lets look on peacefully as neonazis breed more domestic terrorists with their hateful and psychotic rhetoric
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Jan 24, 2017 11:24
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Violence against the populace is common in the form of water cannons, pepper spray, rubber bullets, tear gas, beatings, and whatever against people using their first amendment rights but suddenly when a totally random person decks a nazi we have to have a conversation about how we are the real baddies for not letting them debate about racial supremacy in a polite fashion. These guys lay it out clear that they will not give any of the consideration to the enemies that they are currently receiving when they gain power but idiots think they can debate a nazi and magically win somehow.Condiv posted:by being violent, you give them license to be violent! we have to set a good example!! Seriously. The narrative that "peaceful resistance" is a goal unto itself and results in assholes realizing they are jerks and changing (because the reality is offensive to people that like respectable politics) has been so poisonous. Eggplant Squire fucked around with this message at 14:10 on Jan 24, 2017 |
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Jan 24, 2017 14:07
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Yeah if you're OK with the police arresting a thief (a use of violence against a person displaying a trivial form of antisocial behavior) and not OK with a dude punching a fascist (a comparatively weaker use of violence against a much more serious form of antisocial behavior), you've got hosed up priorities, lad.
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Jan 24, 2017 14:34
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The dude only got tapped in the face. He didn't even get knocked out let alone die or experience real harm. He just needed a little bash is all.
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Jan 24, 2017 15:05
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Flowers For Algeria posted:Yeah if you're OK with the police arresting a thief (a use of violence against a person displaying a trivial form of antisocial behavior) and not OK with a dude punching a fascist (a comparatively weaker use of violence against a much more serious form of antisocial behavior), you've got hosed up priorities, lad. What's your opinion on vigilantism in general? If your standards are "if the police can do it, then the average citizen can do it", than the violence you're OK with the average person using goes quite a bit beyond punching Nazis. I'll admit I'm genuinely conflicted by this. I'm happy the dude got punched in the face, and I 100% think he deserved it, but like any black bloc tactic, things get way murkier and uglier when you get beyond the obvious black and white cases. What if, instead of Richard Spencer, it was some random person who identifies as Alt-Right, is obviously racist, but isn't calling for or behind genocide in particular? Alt-right is a big umbrella, and there's probably people in it who range from just "hating SJWs" to "kill all the jews / blacks". Normalization of this sort of stuff always leads to more questionable usage of the tactic. Black Bloc vandalism against obvious targets like corporate sponsors or state property turns into random breaking of windows. When you add 100%, undeniably violent actions into the mix, it seems like something that is dangerous to be quite so gleeful about.
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Jan 24, 2017 16:55
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ate poo poo on live tv posted:Pretty difficult to fight organized fascism without arms imo. Somebody born without arms could just learn a very kick-focused martial art, like savate. It's 2017, there's no need to still have ableist beliefs like this one. SMDH.
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Jan 24, 2017 17:04
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The Police are a white power organization and have no moral authority on the use of violence.
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Jan 24, 2017 17:48
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all of this poo poo about how "if we fight back WE'RE THE REAL NAZIS!" loving drips with power and privilege. There aren't actually any real nazis (at least, none that can hurt anyone). The only threat is if we become nazis through acting nazi-like, because the universe revolves around my dumb rear end. No loving poo poo the only people hand wringing about this are white dudes.
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Jan 24, 2017 19:04
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enki42 posted:What's your opinion on vigilantism in general? If your standards are "if the police can do it, then the average citizen can do it", than the violence you're OK with the average person using goes quite a bit beyond punching Nazis. And as I pointed out earlier, it is absolutely true that reestablishing those norms, after you've bashed the fash back into the shadows, is a difficult thing and that's a very serious problem. It's important to bear in mind that Nazis are going to tear down those norms anyway and they don't even intend to build them back up once they've won. This is why you're not supposed to tolerate Nazis even in times of peace and stability, but too late for that, so welp 
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Jan 24, 2017 19:08
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deep web creep posted:all of this poo poo about how "if we fight back WE'RE THE REAL NAZIS!" loving drips with power and privilege. You can fight back though, no one has claimed you shouldn't. If you get attacked, you may respond in kind. It's pretty basic.
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Jan 24, 2017 20:25
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ate poo poo on live tv posted:You can fight back though, no one has claimed you shouldn't. If you get attacked, you may respond in kind. It's pretty basic. How long are you gonna keep this poo poo up because it feels like you're going in circles again and again because you are sad the Nazi man got punched and it's getting boring. Maybe you should get a new gimmick. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 24, 2017 20:28
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Punch Nazis in their faces. Kick them while they're down.
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Jan 24, 2017 20:41
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ate poo poo on live tv posted:You can fight back though, no one has claimed you shouldn't. If you get attacked, you may respond in kind. It's pretty basic. We sit on our asses while nazis infiltrate our government and our police and then when they do start breaking windows and faces it's off to the gas chambers for us when we retaliate. Sweet rear end plan you poo poo idiot. Stop loving posting. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 24, 2017 20:43
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Kilroy posted:If our institutions have failed us to the point that crypto-Nazis with sympathies toward real actual Nazis have attained the highest positions of power in our country, then our institutions are nearly worthless and that includes the police. It would be one thing if we lived in a country where advocating global black genocide would get you arrested for hate speech or inciting violence, but we don't live in that country. Not yet, anyway. So if the police are blind to it, and if the Nazis are using that blind spot to creep into power, then vigilantism against them is all we have left. I completely get what you're getting at, but if our starting point is that institutions are worthless, isn't suckerpunching random Nazis that don't directly hold power sort of a weak response? If you legitimately believe that the police / goverment institutions are illegitimate, what is punching some (admittedly evil) random dude 2 degrees removed from actual power going to accomplish? Has the sucker punch shut Richard Spencer up? Has it had a cooling effect on the alt-right, or has it just emboldened them? I don't want to come off as completely against this, I'm genuinely conflicted by it. In some cases, like in Greece where there was documented cases of fascists being violent towards minorities, I have pretty much zero problems with punching fascists. And in isolation, yeah, I'm glad Richard Spencer got punched. But if the message is "punch any Nazi you see", coupled with "anyone who defines themselves with the alt-right in any way is a Nazi", it seems like a dangerous combination. quote:And as I pointed out earlier, it is absolutely true that reestablishing those norms, after you've bashed the fash back into the shadows, is a difficult thing and that's a very serious problem. It's important to bear in mind that Nazis are going to tear down those norms anyway and they don't even intend to build them back up once they've won. This is why you're not supposed to tolerate Nazis even in times of peace and stability, but too late for that, so welp I think the other thing I'm having trouble with is the feeling that this is a temporary state. White supremacists always exist. There's no end state where every white supremacist has been punched and the world can return to normal. Don't get me wrong - things can get worse and they have got worse, but what does it mean to say they're in the shadows? Stormfront has been a thing for pretty much forever.
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Jan 24, 2017 20:43
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deep web creep posted:We sit on our asses while nazis infiltrate our government and our police and then when they do start breaking windows and faces it's off to the gas chambers for us when we retaliate. No one in this thread is saying "do nothing". I can't speak for everyone, but I'm sure a good number of people aren't saying "no direct action", or "no destruction of property". I'm certainly down with it given appropriate targets. Actual violence (as opposed to just property violence or whatever), is a pretty big line to cross though, particularly in response to people who have only tenuous links to power, and haven't been violent themselves.
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Jan 24, 2017 20:45
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enki42 posted:and haven't been violent themselves. there is no difference between punching someone in the face and saying something that you know will make someone else punch them this stupid distinction between "real" and "ok" violence is entirely fictional. Either bad things happen to you or they don't.
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Jan 24, 2017 20:49
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enki42 posted:No one in this thread is saying "do nothing". I can't speak for everyone, but I'm sure a good number of people aren't saying "no direct action", or "no destruction of property". I'm certainly down with it given appropriate targets. Actual violence (as opposed to just property violence or whatever), is a pretty big line to cross though, particularly in response to people who have only tenuous links to power, and haven't been violent themselves. Here are the appropriate targets: nazis Here is the only thing guaranteed to work time and time again: violence You shouldn't feel bad about using violence on nazis because their ultimate goal is actual for-real honest-to-god no-foolin genocide and whatever latitude they have they use it to pursue their stated goal of genocide Jesus loving christ this isn't difficult.
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Jan 24, 2017 20:57
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 Just saying this worked a lot better than any stupid attempts to debate nazis and get them to reconsider their view of ethnic cleansing.
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Jan 24, 2017 20:59
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deep web creep posted:We sit on our asses while nazis infiltrate our government and our police and then when they do start breaking windows and faces it's off to the gas chambers for us when we retaliate. Lol I don't sit on my rear end, nor do I support deeply flawed candidates based on superficial physical attributes. If more people did what I did there wouldn't be nazi's in government at all. Now I know that would deprive you of angry-posting on the internet, but overall the world would be a better place.
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Jan 24, 2017 20:59
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