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I imagine they're treated exactly like a planet for most things.
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Jan 25, 2017 22:39
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OK, gently caress it: Next SPECIES SUBMISSION: IV: Conecha The Conecha are venomous butterflies from a tropical hellworld where everything is poisonous, toxic, venomous or a combination of all three. Evolving on a world where everything tries to kill everything with poison made them incredibly xenophobic. Luckily they can't poison aliens, thanks to their homeworld's biology being incompatible to other forms of life. Still, this doesn't make things better since a Conech's instinctive reaction to everything new is to spit poison on it: With aliens, this doesn't work. This feels creepy and unnatural to every Conech, which results in an unhealthy amplification of their natural xenophobia.  Conecha posted:"Fyeris Condensate" GlyphGryph posted:Yeah in hindsight a pastebin is probably better. Well gently caress, didn't see this post until now. Would have felt pretty dumb to go through the work of posting ten civs, only to lose seven like that. I guess I better stop now. 
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Jan 25, 2017 22:43
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I would pay real DLC dollars for a graphics pack of just more humans. Militarist humans, religious humans, space hippies, happy utopia humans. Basically give me a human clothing pack and I'll buy it, specially if it's some how tied into the ethos system. So my break-away xenophobic militarist empire dress like fascists and it's easier to know who to punch in the face.
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Jan 25, 2017 22:48
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i would pay for less humans
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Jan 25, 2017 22:50
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oddium posted:i would pay for less humans PM me your bank details and I'll tell you how to set up a galaxy without any humans or even random sols!
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Jan 25, 2017 22:51
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i meant irl sorry
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Jan 25, 2017 22:54
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Baronjutter posted:I would pay real DLC dollars for a graphics pack of just more humans. Militarist humans, religious humans, space hippies, happy utopia humans. Basically give me a human clothing pack and I'll buy it, specially if it's some how tied into the ethos system. So my break-away xenophobic militarist empire dress like fascists and it's easier to know who to punch in the face. Have you installed any/all of the additional clothing mods?
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Jan 25, 2017 23:00
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GlyphGryph posted:Have you installed any/all of the additional clothing mods? They're all just like 18th century uniforms that look super out of place despite being really well done.
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Jan 25, 2017 23:03
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GlyphGryph posted:Yeah in hindsight a pastebin is probably better. I think I'd also prefer a pastebin, just because trying to scroll past posts full of lines of code might get real old real fast if lots of people choose to participate in this
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Jan 25, 2017 23:04
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GunnerJ posted:I've often thought this reflects a difficulty of designing games and AI to model a real political and economic system more than anything. A strategy game will give you all of the advantages of a command economy with none of the drawbacks, while it will give you all the drawbacks of a market economy and none of the advantages. (I'm not even saying this as some kind of free-marketeer either.) I don't know. Simulating a market economy that just works is a solved problem. Assume a frictionless market with perfect information and immortal agents that maximise an utility function. Adding all the things that suck in markets would be extra work. Of course it would be kind of boring.
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Jan 25, 2017 23:10
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genericnick posted:I don't know. Simulating a market economy that just works is a solved problem. Assume a frictionless market with perfect information and immortal agents that maximise an utility function. Adding all the things that suck in markets would be extra work. Of course it would be kind of boring. Well, I didn't know to what extent it was solved tbh. I knew that Vicky 2 capitalists would do dumb poo poo like build hundreds of cement factories for no reason and figured this is because it's hard to model. I do think that the command economy side of what I'm saying is more solid. You would need CK2-ish modelling of underlings in a bureaucracy and intense amounts of delegation to really simulate the problem of the whole thing being only as good as its weakest link. Lacking that, it is as good as the player. There is no major barrier between intent, action, and outcome.
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Jan 25, 2017 23:18
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Well one of the breakpoints in a command economy is that upper level just doesn't get the information it needs to take useful decisions and might also get overloaded with the information it does get. Feature bloat and bad UI can model that pretty naturally.
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Jan 25, 2017 23:39
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assuming a frictionless market with perfect information means capitalism ends in monopoly and rent almost immediately so that is not solving the market problem at all actually like that exact presumption was one of marx's predictions as to why capitalism was bad, it would continually mature toward the crushing megacorp stage that would ensure oligarchy would rule supreme the reality is that simulating a market in anything beyond broad strokes is actually incredibly hard, especially if you want to compare it to real economic data
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Jan 25, 2017 23:42
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Not like it matters as Vicky perfectly models a free market just replace morons who get lucky sometimes with a terrible AI that gets lucky sometimes.
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Jan 25, 2017 23:43
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CharlestheHammer posted:Not like it matters as Vicky perfectly models a free market just replace morons who get lucky sometimes with a terrible AI that gets lucky sometimes. Gonna start a Kickstarter to fund a clipper factory.
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Jan 25, 2017 23:44
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Wiz posted:Gonna start a Kickstarter to fund a clipper factroy. Ftfy
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Jan 25, 2017 23:46
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start it in 1912
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Jan 25, 2017 23:47
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Never mind that, what we really need is a winery in Finnmark.
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Jan 26, 2017 00:03
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GunnerJ posted:Well, I didn't know to what extent it was solved tbh. I knew that Vicky 2 capitalists would do dumb poo poo like build hundreds of cement factories for no reason and figured this is because it's hard to model. If the actual problem is that the director of command economics (i.e. the player) is over-informed then the obvious solution is to remove enough agency from the player that it provides a realistic barrier to just doing whatever you want. Unfortunately most people find this kind of gameplay frustrating as gently caress so it's probably not going to happen.
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Jan 26, 2017 00:04
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RabidWeasel posted:If the actual problem is that the director of command economics (i.e. the player) is over-informed then the obvious solution is to remove enough agency from the player that it provides a realistic barrier to just doing whatever you want. People typically do not play games to experience frustrating helplessness.
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Jan 26, 2017 00:10
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Wiz posted:People typically do not play games to experience frustrating helplessness. But then the communists win.
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Jan 26, 2017 00:13
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Coolguye posted:assuming a frictionless market with perfect information means capitalism ends in monopoly and rent almost immediately so that is not solving the market problem at all actually Hm, and here I thought I wrote down the conditions for the Efficient Market Hypothesis. Though from memory you'd also need infinite credit so you get capitalist kumbaya instead of crushing mega corps. Definitely wouldn't be a plausible simulation of a real economy though. Wiz posted:People typically do not play games to experience frustrating helplessness. From this point on the UI lying to players is a feature and not a bug.
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Jan 26, 2017 00:27
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A game with a difficulty setting that just makes the UI and all communication of information more and more obscure or confusing the higher it's set.
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Jan 26, 2017 00:44
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GunnerJ posted:A game with a difficulty setting that just makes the UI and all communication of information more and more obscure or confusing the higher it's set. Finally, a game that makes Magna Mundi look good by comparison.
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Jan 26, 2017 00:48
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GunnerJ posted:A game with a difficulty setting that just makes the UI and all communication of information more and more obscure or confusing the higher it's set. Does it turn into a Grognard Wargame at its highest setting (including the UI looking like it's from Windows 95)?
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Jan 26, 2017 00:50
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Wiz posted:Finally, a game that makes Magna Mundi look good by comparison.  Presumably people in the Paradox office were play testing whatever half-functional demos were produced? Are there horror stories still told around the office about it? don't get me wrong, I loved MM for EU3, but holy poo poo that game
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Jan 26, 2017 00:52
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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SkySteak posted:Does it turn into a Grognard Wargame at its highest setting (including the UI looking like it's from Windows 95)? Sure but the secret highest difficulty just gives you a DOS prompt and uses Esperanto.
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Jan 26, 2017 00:52
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PittTheElder posted:
I really can't talk about it, unfortunately. I'm sure you can make up your own horror stories about how fun it would've been to QA it though.
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Jan 26, 2017 00:55
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Most definitely I can.
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Jan 26, 2017 01:06
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Wiz posted:People typically do not play games to experience frustrating helplessness. Well yeah, but, grognards. I want to feel like the guy making the big decisions and then getting hosed over by my incompetent bureaucracy failing to actually implement what they were supposed to do. Finding the right men for the job is more important than knowing how to do things personally! Are there actually any games that work like this other than maybe some awful board game with like 300 tables you have to compare all your die rolls to?
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Jan 26, 2017 01:16
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Can you genetically modify a race to gain negative traits and/or lose positive ones? Just asking.
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Jan 26, 2017 01:37
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Can you give them an urge to scream and no mouth in the next update?
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Jan 26, 2017 01:38
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SPECIES SUBMISSION: The Cithin - Space spiders that want to eat everyone and turn all the planets into desiccated rocks. quote:"The Cithin Crusade"
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Jan 26, 2017 01:51
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Lum_ posted:Don't start with Alphamods, it adds WAY TOO MUCH unless you just want All The Things(tm) in your game and IMHO the balance is really badly thought out. There's an alternative listed in my list in the OP that is a better overhaul, but if you really want to shake up the game try the Star Trek total conversion - the changes in that one actually make some sort of sense.
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Jan 26, 2017 02:18
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RabidWeasel posted:Well yeah, but, grognards. I want to feel like the guy making the big decisions and then getting hosed over by my incompetent bureaucracy failing to actually implement what they were supposed to do. Finding the right men for the job is more important than knowing how to do things personally! There's Barbarossa where you invade the USSR while trying not to piss of the Nazi bureaucracy.
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Jan 26, 2017 02:50
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Holy poo poo i can't wait to turn Sol into a crazy fortress system with habitats around every planet to fund the giant network of fortresses.
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Jan 26, 2017 03:01
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The true measure of a game is whether it beats the complexity and UI associated adventure of managing a missile (bonus points if multi-stage) and fighter based fleet engagement in Aurora.
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Jan 26, 2017 03:13
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What advantage is there to runnin xenophobe? Xenophile seems better initially though I already found some downsides to those wusses. Can you ever add/change those things later in game? Like maxing out a o e point thing orwhat?
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Jan 26, 2017 03:28
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I liked playing xenophobe because it made my empire feel pure, it's like pretty borders for demographics. The monument to purity is nice too. I can't remember all the specifics, but the last time I played I was xenophobe and I liked it a lot. Bigger borders is nice too. Never enslaved nobody neither though.
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Jan 26, 2017 03:31
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If you stack a lot of the +border range bonuses, including fanatic xenophobe, and then quickly invade any pre-FTL species you find, you can grab a lot of territory very early in the game. I've never done this myself but I've read it's a decent gimmick build.
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Jan 26, 2017 03:39
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