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The prequels are far superior to the garbage fanfiction most people would like for them to be.
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Jan 25, 2017 22:42
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General Dog posted:I've warmed on AoTC a good bit, but while the overall arc of the prequels is good, there are some central plot threads specific to the episode that don't resolve very clearly. Namely, how did the plot to assassinate Padme tie into everything else? Was the intent always to lead the Jedi to the clone army, or was that just a happy coincidence? If the Jedi were supposed to find the Clone Army, why was Kamino erased from the Jedi Archive? What is the point in knowing who ordered the Clone Army if it's someone we never knew and is never expanded upon? Admittedly it's been a long time since I've seen AotC so I can't speak to all of these but I feel like the two I bolded kinda answer each other. The point of it being a Jedi(who's conveniently not around to disprove anything) is so the Kaminoans will go 'hey, we got that clone army yall wanted ready to go whenever you want' once Palpatine pushes a Jedi to come upon them. By doing so Palpatine gets the big standing perfectly-obeying slave army he wanted without looking like he wanted one and intertwines the Jedi to the Republic further, making any later action taken against him look more like a petty political coup from power hungry military leaders and not them trying to stop a Sith Lord.
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Jan 25, 2017 22:51
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The web of not-really-important mysteries is what Yoda is talking about when he says the dark side is clouding everything. The underlying reality is very simple, but it's obfuscated by dangling plot threads and red herrings. It's a common genre convention. Detective Kenobi chases leads that lead him right where he's supposed to be, without gaining any real understanding of why it all happened.
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Jan 25, 2017 22:58
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Serf posted:The prequels are far superior to the garbage fanfiction most people would like for them to be. I agree that there are people wanting way more out of the Prequels than needed, but surely it's not asking for too much for a love story which has a reasonable build up and a fall from grace that's not *sad, murders everything*. You smooth out both of those, do some work on the Clone plotline and you get a much better movie. Each of the Prequels was a good second or third draft away from being much better, and it doesn't even require changing the overall plot.
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Jan 25, 2017 23:00
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It wasn't supposed to be a good love story. He tries to murder her in the next movie . They are all flawed and not good.
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Jan 25, 2017 23:01
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Brother Entropy posted:Admittedly it's been a long time since I've seen AotC so I can't speak to all of these but I feel like the two I bolded kinda answer each other. The point of it being a Jedi(who's conveniently not around to disprove anything) is so the Kaminoans will go 'hey, we got that clone army yall wanted ready to go whenever you want' once Palpatine pushes a Jedi to come upon them. By doing so Palpatine gets the big standing perfectly-obeying slave army he wanted without looking like he wanted one and intertwines the Jedi to the Republic further, making any later action taken against him look more like a petty political coup from power hungry military leaders and not them trying to stop a Sith Lord. I do love that Palpatine knew the Jedi would rather pretend they already knew about the Clone Army and roll with it than admit that they didn't know what was going on and look stupid. I guess what I was actually asking though was whether the point of Jango Fett's assassination attempts on Amidala were specifically meant to get the Jedi to follow him back to Kamino and find the clones. Like, did he specifically use this really distinct dart, rather than just a normal gun or whatever, knowing it would lead the Jedi to the cloners? Maybe he planted a Kaminoan bomb on landing platform too but nobody ever figured that one out. General Dog fucked around with this message at 23:05 on Jan 25, 2017 |
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Jan 25, 2017 23:02
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General Dog posted:I guess what I was actually asking though was whether the point of Jango Fett's assassination attempts on Amidala were specifically meant to get the Jedi to follow him back to Kamino and find the clones. Like, did he specifically use this really distinct dart, rather than just a normal gun or whatever, knowing it would lead the Jedi to the cloners? Maybe he planted a Kaminoan bomb on landing platform too but nobody ever figured that one out. You are getting distracted by pointless wookiepedia-level minutiae, just as Sheev intended.
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Jan 25, 2017 23:15
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The conspicuously missing portion of the map in the Jedi temple is another clever trick. Make them think they've cleverly discovered something when actually they're being drawn to the exact spot that would further Palpatine's plan.
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Jan 25, 2017 23:19
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The main thing I don't much like about Attack of the Clones is that there are a few redundant pairs of scenes in Anakin and Padme's courtship, in the same way that the Greedo and Jabba scenes in A New Hope are redundant. They reveal different aspects of the characterization, but they do so in the context of establishing the same facts a second time. I also think that Obi-Wan's confrontation of Jango would've benefited from dialog that was a bit more witty.
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Jan 25, 2017 23:21
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Bongo Bill posted:The main thing I don't much like about Attack of the Clones is that there are a few redundant pairs of scenes in Anakin and Padme's courtship, in the same way that the Greedo and Jabba scenes in A New Hope are redundant. They reveal different aspects of the characterization, but they do so in the context of establishing the same facts a second time. wowe you just pointed out why they cut that jabba scene in the first place lucas is a hack and shouldve left the editing to his wifey
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Jan 25, 2017 23:23
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Phi230 posted:wowe you just pointed out why they cut that jabba scene in the first place You seem to think that I was not calling the duplication a bad thing. You are a very confused person.
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Jan 25, 2017 23:24
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euphronius posted:It wasn't supposed to be a good love story. For what it's worth I really wish this line of thinking wasn't so prevalent. Luke: Leia, do you remember your mother? Your real mother? Princess Leia: Just a little bit. She died when I was very young. Luke: What do you remember? Princess Leia: Just... images really. Feelings. Luke: Tell me. Princess Leia: She was... very beautiful. Kind, but sad. And really dumb, like forgive a murderer and then marry him a few days later dumb.
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Jan 25, 2017 23:24
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Unhealthy relationships between two damaged people are probably more common in real life than whatever fantasy romance you're asking for.
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Jan 25, 2017 23:28
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Teek posted:For what it's worth I really wish this line of thinking wasn't so prevalent.
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Jan 25, 2017 23:34
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Attack of the Clones is one of the worst movies I have ever seen. Its number one crime is just being boring. I actually fell asleep the last time I tried to watch it.
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Jan 25, 2017 23:35
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FuturePastNow posted:Attack of the Clones is one of the worst movies I have ever seen. Its number one crime is just being boring. I actually fell asleep the last time I tried to watch it. I'm glad that you haven't seen any truly bad movies.
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Jan 25, 2017 23:39
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Has the EU ever attempted to explain how Leia remembered her mother?
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Jan 25, 2017 23:40
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kiimo posted:Has the EU ever attempted to explain how Leia remembered her mother? the force, probably
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Jan 25, 2017 23:44
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Basebf555 posted:Unhealthy relationships between two damaged people are probably more common in real life than whatever fantasy romance you're asking for. Oh I agree, we just didn't really get anything explaining how Padme was damaged or why she did the things she did. Again, it doesn't take huge changes to smooth over the rough edges. It doesn't turn it into a fantasy romance, it doesn't alter the story arc. It would have just helped explain why she married him, since we got almost nothing in the movie. Even if it wasn't a matter or altering her story, as much as toning down Anakin's creepiness. I'm arguing for the sake of arguing at this point, so I'll stop.
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Jan 25, 2017 23:45
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Like, she searched her feeling and knew it to be true. Maybe if you look, you find out that the Midiclorians told her or something.
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Jan 25, 2017 23:45
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kiimo posted:Has the EU ever attempted to explain how Leia remembered her mother? I don't believe so, I think the only contextually material was that Obi-wan held Luke, while Leia was held close to Padme as she died. I'm not sure if Lucas said that was what he was going for though.
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Jan 25, 2017 23:46
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Teek posted:Oh I agree, we just didn't really get anything explaining how Padme was damaged or why she did the things she did. Again, it doesn't take huge changes to smooth over the rough edges. It doesn't turn it into a fantasy romance, it doesn't alter the story arc. It would have just helped explain why she married him, since we got almost nothing in the movie. Even if it wasn't a matter or altering her story, as much as toning down Anakin's creepiness. I'm arguing for the sake of arguing at this point, so I'll stop. She falls in love with a great guy and a hero who is struggling with a tough past who gets hosed up by war and turns into a monster.
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Jan 25, 2017 23:48
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It was pointed out to me that the titles of VII and VIII form a single sentence. The Force awakens the last Jedi. hmmm....
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Jan 25, 2017 23:57
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Teek posted:Oh I agree, we just didn't really get anything explaining how Padme was damaged or why she did the things she did. Again, it doesn't take huge changes to smooth over the rough edges. It doesn't turn it into a fantasy romance, it doesn't alter the story arc. It would have just helped explain why she married him, since we got almost nothing in the movie. Even if it wasn't a matter or altering her story, as much as toning down Anakin's creepiness. I'm arguing for the sake of arguing at this point, so I'll stop. Padme talks a lot about her childhood, how she was pushed into office before she was ready, we've seen her have to go through gunfights and assassination attempts. There's a lot there if you watch the films.
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Jan 25, 2017 23:59
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Well yeah. Like, most people understand that it's hosed up in TPM that Padme is the head of state for an entire planet and is supposed to be, what is it, 13? She likes Anakin at that point because he's the only other kid she gets to hang out with even though he's what, half her age?
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Jan 26, 2017 00:09
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Honestly, Naboo is an extremely hosed up society seemingly kept functioning in spite of itself. It doesnt surprise me at all that it produced Palpatine.
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Jan 26, 2017 00:30
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OhFunny posted:It was pointed out to me that the titles of VII and VIII form a single sentence. Hoping the title of IX is an infinitive phrase, like "Star Wars Episode IX: To Ignite The Galaxy".
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Jan 26, 2017 00:32
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Luke's like 'how was your real mother.' And it's like, dog, Padme's not her real mother. Leia's real mother is the woman who raised her from the age of One Day, after her biological mother died. People are getting mixed up like JJ Abrams when he retconned Parsecs and Wookiee Arm-Ripping into not being total bullshit. Teek posted:Oh I agree, we just didn't really get anything explaining how Padme was damaged or why she did the things she did. She was made queen of an entire planet at age 13.
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Jan 26, 2017 00:33
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The thing about Padme is that we're seeing what life was like for Leia as a Princess of Alderaan. She's a fantasy princess from a paradise kingdom, but it's hosed up that a woman her age who is still basically a girl is the leader of this supposedly incredible society with no one she can trust to guide her. Both end up pinning their hopes on Obi-Wan and his young padawan.
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Jan 26, 2017 00:38
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Star Wars Episode IX: To The Ends of the Galaxy
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Jan 26, 2017 00:47
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Star Wars Episode IX: [infinitive] [inspiring verb] [noun]
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Jan 26, 2017 00:49
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wMO0-Oy6e0
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Jan 26, 2017 00:53
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OhFunny posted:It was pointed out to me that the titles of VII and VIII form a single sentence. Can't wait for Ep IX: To Kill Him
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Jan 26, 2017 00:55
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Star Wars Episode IX: Except It Was Just A Prank, Bro
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Jan 26, 2017 01:08
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Episode IX: In Time for Some Blue Milk and Jizz
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Jan 26, 2017 01:19
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:She was made queen of an entire planet at age 13. Yeah, I know. It's the type of plot point I'm wishing was developed more in the movies. The Clone Wars series did flesh that out a bit more, which was nice. There were quite a number of interesting ideas in the Prequels, and it was nice to see many of them pay off in TCW series at least.
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Jan 26, 2017 01:20
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Padme is the ultimate naive, well-meaning liberal. She genuinely believes the system works, or when it doesn't that it can be fixed. She does what she can but it wears her down in the end. The films aren't unsympathetic to her view- arguably they say that things should be like she sees them. But something's broken that she can't repair.
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Jan 26, 2017 01:31
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I think it's the fact that we are supposed to project that a society would elect a 13 year old girl. It's a thing a writer thinks of, says, yeah, that seems cool, and implements without thinking how that would actually come about. So, we are left to project how and why this would happen/play out. All of this would be headcannon, but how exactly do you think a society like that would elect a 13 year old? They wouldn't, realistically, but that's what happened because that's what George thought would be cool for the movie. Ass Catchcum fucked around with this message at 01:34 on Jan 26, 2017 |
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Jan 26, 2017 01:32
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Luke's like 'how was your real mother.' And it's like, dog, Padme's not her real mother. Leia's real mother is the woman who raised her from the age of One Day, after her biological mother died. This part is correct. But the stuff about Padme being a queen at 13 requires critical thinking that I dont think the author did. There is no reason for it, it doesn't make any sense, and there's no good reason that it would happen. It's just a cool set piece: A tranquil kingdom ruled by a child.
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Jan 26, 2017 01:33
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| # ? Jun 8, 2024 17:34 |
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Padmé's perspective is underserved compared to those of Anakin and Obi-Wan in AOTC and ROTS. Part of that might be because she got a whole movie beforehand to be a main character where the others weren't. But in AOTC especially, we see what makes Padmé tick very obliquely. A lot of our information comes from conspicuous absences: Padmé is surrounded by female bodyguards and servants, but the only human male presences in her life are her security chiefs and some much older coworkers like Bail Organa. And we see not the slightest inkling of any real social life. So no one comes right out and says it (not in the final cut, anyway), but we're left to think that being Queen or Senator since Padmé was a pre-teen has made Anakin Skywalker, of all people, into the only male age-peer she knows. And the main tension Padmé struggles with with respect to Anakin is established at the start of the movie. A part of her thinks of him as the brave, kind little boy she met on Tatooine. But in the present she's looking at a tall, handsome young man, the first man to show her his attentions. So on the one hand she wants to be patient and motherly toward him as she was when Anakin first went to space, but on the other hand her basic human instincts tell her to do what young people do. What happens eventually is that Padmé resists the latter desire and rejects Anakin's advances. But her resolve to do that falters when Anakin's mother dies and he breaks down, absolutely distraught over his loss and over what he did in revenge. She steps in to comfort him, and by becoming his surrogate mother she establishes an emotional link with him despite her better judgment. But none of that is just directly said, and the main hints that Padmé's own motherly instincts are in play come way earlier in the movie.
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Jan 26, 2017 01:54
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