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JewKiller 3000 posted:that was almost fishmech-like, how you addressed the assumed implication of a tiny part of my post, rather than the actual point therein i don't think there's anything wrong with chatting through a problem with a whiteboard around because that's something that my actual team does all the time. making it the only thing that matters, or turning it into language specification trivia hour sucks though.
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Jan 26, 2017 05:16
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 there are good things about white boarding, and yeah it literally is realistic because sometimes you have to talk to other people to solve problems
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Jan 26, 2017 05:17
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there are a wide variety of situations for which whiteboards and doing stuff on whiteboards is useful. coding is not one of them.
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Jan 26, 2017 05:19
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like if you're that hard on for some whiteboarding action take the biggest project on their resume and ask them to block diagram it and explain it to you, as this is a thing that whiteboards are suitable for
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Jan 26, 2017 05:20
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The Management posted:okay, let me address your main point: alright, well i understand where you're coming from. i'm about to do what i just yelled at you for, and focus on a single word of your post. i'm not trying to be an rear end in a top hat, i could address some of the points you brought up because i partly agree and partly disagree... but really what i'm trying to get at is captured in one word that you used: "exercise" i don't make interviewees do exercises of any kind. i talk to them like human beings. i read their resume, which is relevant to the job description or it wouldn't have gotten this far, and i ask them questions about the projects they've worked on in the past. i might present a related issue that we've encountered and see how they would have tackled it. i'm interested in their personality, work style, approach to problem solving, etc. just as you are. i find that this tests communication and presentation skills thoroughly. i can tell if they're bullshitting. can't you?
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Jan 26, 2017 05:25
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Bloody posted:like if you're that hard on for some whiteboarding action take the biggest project on their resume and ask them to block diagram it and explain it to you, as this is a thing that whiteboards are suitable for this is correct other uses of a whiteboard in an interview process: * expressing a sequence diagram * class diagrams * E-R diagrams the pattern is not code. if you want someone to code in an interview then you should pair with them in some small project that is based in the reality of what they'll work on. last dude I interviewed, we took his initial programming assignment and enhanced it in a pair session
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Jan 26, 2017 06:37
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Bloody posted:like if you're that hard on for some whiteboarding action take the biggest project on their resume and ask them to block diagram it and explain it to you, as this is a thing that whiteboards are suitable for first interview was exactly what you said, second interview they gave me a 2 page design doc and told me to sketch out the major components and discuss where the problems would be etc
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Jan 26, 2017 08:50
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if your candidate literally breaks down trying to reverse a string in the language of their choice then idk maybe that's a good sign that they are not a very good programmer. if they can do it then it certainly doesn't mean that they are a good programmer, but it's a reassuring smoke-test it's also good to know that a candidate who's majorly struggling with something harder than string-reversal can at least talk through what they're having difficulty with like a reasonable and easy-to-work with human being would, and that they're able to run with any direction and ideas that you give to them. this is usually done in front of a whiteboard because you probably don't have two hours to sit them down in front of a laptop and introduce them to a problem in w/e esoteric poo poo-heap of an industry you work in -- whiteboards and simple industry-agnostic problems are a common denominator that programmers should be able to somewhat competently work through.
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Jan 26, 2017 18:40
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so I did a director interview before Christmas, a team interview last week, and now they want to have a follow up phone call with one of the team members tomorrow? I'm glad I'm still in contention but what the hell, the first two should have been enough.
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Jan 26, 2017 18:45
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devmd01 posted:so I did a director interview before Christmas, a team interview last week, and now they want to have a follow up phone call with one of the team members tomorrow? I'm glad I'm still in contention but what the hell, the first two should have been enough. are you a time traveler or are they interviewing you backwards?
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Jan 26, 2017 19:38
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The Management posted:are you a time traveler or are they interviewing you backwards?
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Jan 26, 2017 19:44
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please reverse our hiring process using only bitwise operations
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Jan 26, 2017 22:01
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devmd01 posted:so I did a director interview before Christmas, a team interview last week, and now they want to have a follow up phone call with one of the team members tomorrow? I'm glad I'm still in contention but what the hell, the first two should have been enough. The director interview first is a bit of a red flag
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Jan 26, 2017 22:07
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jre posted:The director interview first is a bit of a red flag title inflation means the director could just be the team lead in which case it's normal
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Jan 26, 2017 22:20
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hobbesmaster posted:title inflation means the director could just be the team lead in which case it's normal a director is an executive, not an employee, and is subject to different laws in all kinds of cases (particularly stock regulation). any idiot can't just call himself a director at most companies.
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Jan 26, 2017 22:30
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but every idiot can be made a director so those regs apply to them. see VP at banks
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Jan 26, 2017 22:31
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The Management posted:implement atoi(), for example, without any library functions. code:
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Jan 26, 2017 22:35
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jre posted:The director interview first is a bit of a red flag director of it infrastructure, not exec level.
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Jan 26, 2017 22:53
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devmd01 posted:director of it infrastructure, not exec level. Director is a specific role with legally enforced responsibilities in the UK which appears not to be the case in the US then. I've seen places where director has to micromanage every hire and its a  Appointing a director requires submitting documentation to companies house for example, so its not an empty title here.
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Jan 27, 2017 00:22
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jre posted:Director is a specific role with legally enforced responsibilities in the UK which appears not to be the case in the US then. I've seen places where director has to micromanage every hire and its a in the US companies get to declare who their executives are (there's no official titles below some C*O). but in most large companies, at least public ones, director is an executive role and has the legal responsibilities of an officer of the company.
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Jan 27, 2017 00:33
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my company has a shitload of vps and directors lol
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Jan 27, 2017 03:26
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our lowest ranking salesperson out-titles my boss, who runs an eight person team
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Jan 27, 2017 04:51
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GenJoe posted:if your candidate literally breaks down trying to reverse a string in the language of their choice then idk maybe that's a good sign that they are not a very good programmer. if they can do it then it certainly doesn't mean that they are a good programmer, but it's a reassuring smoke-test Eh - after reading your comment, I take back a little of what I said about white boarding. It can be useful to demonstrate that the candidate has an understanding of things like recursion and stack-based execution. The obvious counterpoint to that is whether recursive solutions are ever relevant to the job at hand and in most scenarios, they aren't what you want.
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Jan 27, 2017 07:47
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CrazyLittle posted:
code me like one of your french girls
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Jan 27, 2017 11:10
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krooj posted:Eh - after reading your comment, I take back a little of what I said about white boarding. It can be useful to demonstrate that the candidate has an understanding of things like recursion and stack-based execution. The obvious counterpoint to that is whether recursive solutions are ever relevant to the job at hand and in most scenarios, they aren't what you want. maybe recursion isn't what /you/ want, but I'd be perfectly happy working with functional languages on the daily.
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Jan 27, 2017 11:34
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i have two offers plus a major award and raise at current job (which i like ) dunno what to do
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Jan 27, 2017 17:25
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MALE SHOEGAZE posted:i have two offers plus a major award and raise at current job (which i like ) pick one?
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Jan 27, 2017 17:39
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put the offers up your rear end op
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Jan 27, 2017 17:46
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take the major award and also the best offer
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Jan 27, 2017 17:51
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MALE SHOEGAZE posted:i have two offers plus a major award and raise at current job (which i like ) first decide if you want to stay or move. why did you look for a job in the first place? more money doesn't fix problems, it just lets you ignore them for a while (unless the problem was not enough money). if you stay, will you be fed up and looking for another job a year from now?
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Jan 27, 2017 17:52
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Accept both offers. Actually work at which of the three jobs you want the most. Collect 3 paychecks as long as possible. This works a lot better with remote jobs. One day I hope to goad someone into actually doing it.
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Jan 27, 2017 18:57
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argh, I loving hate LinkedIn. what a piece of poo poo site and app
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Jan 27, 2017 20:13
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The Management posted:argh, I loving hate LinkedIn. what a piece of poo poo site and app They wouldn't let me delete old recommendations that weren't relevant to my current job/had my old name in them. I ended up just deleting my account since all I ever got from it were cold calls from help desk outsourcers asking for my deadname. Trash.
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Jan 27, 2017 20:37
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On-site in bound in like two weeks. Guess it's time to cram algo/ds + domain-specific knowledge + review my experience and be able to explain all of it/ hype it up
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Jan 27, 2017 20:46
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The Management posted:argh, I loving hate LinkedIn. what a piece of poo poo site and app
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Jan 27, 2017 21:47
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VOTE YES ON 69 posted:Accept both offers. Actually work at which of the three jobs you want the most. Collect 3 paychecks as long as possible. i worked at a dying dinosaur company that autoconverted you to a remote employee if you didn't badge in a certain number of times a month to reduce real estate costs at some of our bigger locations seems like that + having a manager in a different area would be fantastic cover to hold 2-3 jobs down simultaneously remotely
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Jan 27, 2017 23:02
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VOTE YES ON 69 posted:Accept both offers. Actually work at which of the three jobs you want the most. Collect 3 paychecks as long as possible. we're like 90% sure one of our remote BAs is doing this.
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Jan 27, 2017 23:07
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that's a great way to be fired from both jobs when your old company tells your new company what you've been doing. edit: aka the chris ziegler
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Jan 27, 2017 23:12
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lol if youre important enough of a cog in any massive corporate machine for anyone to notice you beyond your direct management
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Jan 27, 2017 23:16
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somebody at my workplace worked for two places at the same time in a massive conflict of interest way and was fired from both places iirc i mean you can work two places here you just have to do paperwork and each employer needs to know about it and time commitments and etc
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Jan 27, 2017 23:29
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