|
Yeah saw that one, I was thinking before rebates/not on sale stuff. Is it just 460s and 1050(ti)s at that point then? On a side note I guess this is the shortest 470: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150781 Still 2" longer than the short Nvidia cards 
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2017 21:00
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 05:18 |
|
|
Collateral Damage posted:I think his point is "Don't buy M2 SATA, buy M2 NVMe" 950 is nvme, though it's a bit slower and has issues with getting hot.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2017 01:59
|
|
|
Salted_Pork posted:950 is nvme, though it's a bit slower and has issues with getting hot. And at that point I'm paying way more than I want to pay for a 500gb SSD so I'm gonna stick with the 2.5" 850 EVO. Here's where I'm at now. Thoughts? PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant CPU: Intel Core i5-7500 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($198.88 @ OutletPC) Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-B150N-GSM Mini ITX LGA1151 Motherboard ($103.99 @ SuperBiiz) Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3000 Memory ($92.99 @ Newegg) Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 500GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($169.49 @ OutletPC) Video Card: MSI Radeon RX 470 4GB ARMOR OC Video Card ($173.98 @ Newegg) Case: Fractal Design Node 202 HTPC Case ($64.99 @ NCIX US) Power Supply: Corsair SF 450W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular SFX Power Supply ($89.90 @ Jet) Total: $894.22 Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-01-26 06:15 EST-0500 I'd still like to be able to bring the price down a little if you guys can see where I'm overspending on anything.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2017 12:16
|
|
|
Wow, that's incredibly low priced compared to 470s in the UK
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2017 12:20
|
|
|
Blinkz0rz posted:And at that point I'm paying way more than I want to pay for a 500gb SSD so I'm gonna stick with the 2.5" 850 EVO. The only ways I see for you to save any money are to drop from DDR4-3000 (which your motherboard won't run at that speed anyway) to DDR4-2133, and to lose the video card and rely on integrated graphics. Edit: you could also drop from an i5 to an i3, but you'd be trading four physical cores for two physical cores + hyperthreading. Grundulum fucked around with this message at 12:36 on Jan 26, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2017 12:27
|
|
|
Grundulum posted:The only ways I see for you to save any money are to drop from DDR4-3000 (which your motherboard won't run at that speed anyway) to DDR4-2133, and to lose the video card and rely on integrated graphics. Ok, I swapped out the RAM with G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2400 Memory. How hot garbage is the integrated graphics chipset on these boards? If I try to run something like Fallout 4 with decent settings will it croak?
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2017 13:05
|
|
|
Blinkz0rz posted:How hot garbage is the integrated graphics chipset on these boards? If I try to run something like Fallout 4 with decent settings will it croak? Define "decent", and at what resolution? Integrated graphics has gotten a lot better over the last decade, but it still doesn't hold a candle to any dedicated graphics card that costs more than $100. Here's a video of Fallout 4 at 1080p and very reasonable-seeming frame rates, on the iGPU of a 7500: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_MQyoQq6Wg The sacrifice is that you don't get medium+ graphics, and you're unlikely to pull a steady 60+ FPS. If that's worth foregoing the dGPU for now, you can always save money to buy it later.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2017 13:40
|
|
|
Grundulum posted:Define "decent", and at what resolution? Integrated graphics has gotten a lot better over the last decade, but it still doesn't hold a candle to any dedicated graphics card that costs more than $100. Ok, that's acceptable at least to start. I'm sure I'll buy a dedicated gfx card soon but this'll give me a baseline. Thanks for all the feedback and assistance folks 
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2017 13:49
|
|
|
Is there much difference between cpu cooler heat sinks? I currently have a Tt frio 12 cooling my i5-6600k and I'm running some fairly large simulations that take 10 hours to complete so I tried OCing a bit and even putting it to 4.2 GHz caused it to get to about 70 C which is a bit hotter than the recommended 64 C. I'm considering getting a new cooler (Noctua CPU Cooler [NH-U12S]), but thought it might be better/cheaper to chuck a fan on the other side my current cooler if the shape of the heat-sink doesn't make much difference
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2017 23:38
|
|
|
Salted_Pork posted:Is there much difference between cpu cooler heat sinks? I currently have a Tt frio 12 cooling my i5-6600k and I'm running some fairly large simulations that take 10 hours to complete so I tried OCing a bit and even putting it to 4.2 GHz caused it to get to about 70 C which is a bit hotter than the recommended 64 C. I'm considering getting a new cooler (Noctua CPU Cooler [NH-U12S]), but thought it might be better/cheaper to chuck a fan on the other side my current cooler if the shape of the heat-sink doesn't make much difference What case do you have that fits that cooler and still qualifies as SFF? (But a push-pull setup should be more effective -- and cheaper -- than buying a different heat sink. The material of the heat sink might make a difference, but that is beyond my knowledge. You might also want to consider cleaning your setup and reapplying thermal paste if it's been running at high temps for long times. Could be the high temps are due to poor heat conduction between the CPU and the heat sink.) Also, overclocking is usually frowned upon in the parts picking thread if you're doing any sort of professional work. Grundulum fucked around with this message at 01:14 on Jan 27, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2017 01:12
|
|
|
Grundulum posted:What case do you have that fits that cooler and still qualifies as SFF? it's a thermaltake core v1, a one foot cube case. I will take your other advice under consideration
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2017 02:46
|
|
|
Salted_Pork posted:Is there much difference between cpu cooler heat sinks? I currently have a Tt frio 12 cooling my i5-6600k and I'm running some fairly large simulations that take 10 hours to complete so I tried OCing a bit and even putting it to 4.2 GHz caused it to get to about 70 C which is a bit hotter than the recommended 64 C. I'm considering getting a new cooler (Noctua CPU Cooler [NH-U12S]), but thought it might be better/cheaper to chuck a fan on the other side my current cooler if the shape of the heat-sink doesn't make much difference That heatsink is too small to get any benefit from a second fan. Also, an NH-U12S wouldn't fit in that case. The best air cooling you can get would probably be an Noctua NH-D9L, which is actually two heatsinks sandwiched around a fan. More heatsink always works better than more fan. You would see a few degrees of improvement, and maybe a couple more if you stuck an extra fan on the front of the Noctua. Source: all these numbers Oh, hang on, there's the Be Quiet Dark Rock TF. It performs as well as the D9L with two fans, but costs less. Actually, hang on again. Don't get the Dark Rock TF. I wanted to see what that would look like, but apparently nobody has ever put that heatsink in that case. Probably because there would be 9mm of clearance at the top for the fan to pull in air. Maxwell Adams fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Jan 27, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2017 17:22
|
|
|
The U9S and D9L seem to be good go-to tower coolers.
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2017 18:34
|
|
|
The Zotac GTX 1080 Mini is starting to show up in stock at various online vendors: http://www.shopblt.com/item/zotac-zt-p10800h-10p-geforce-gtx-1080-mini/zotac_ztp10800h10p.html If you have a super-small ITX case like the S4 Mini, it's by far the strongest card you can fit.
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2017 19:40
|
|
|
Zero VGS posted:The Zotac GTX 1080 Mini is starting to show up in stock at various online vendors: The cooler appears to extend 4cm past the end of the ITX sized board. Is there any chance it will actually fit?
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2017 21:49
|
|
|
VulgarandStupid posted:The cooler appears to extend 4cm past the end of the ITX sized board. Is there any chance it will actually fit? Good question, this guy is going to find out the hard way apparently: https://smallformfactor.net/forum/threads/nfc-systems-s4-mini.96/page-76#post-29920 Also, my own S4 Mini just arrived: 
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2017 22:41
|
|
|
i put in some fans and a cpu cooler into my ncase so i guess you could say its finally done. hopefully will last me for the next 5 years
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2017 00:42
|
|
|
Smiles posted:i put in some fans and a cpu cooler into my ncase so i guess you could say its finally done. hopefully will last me for the next 5 years  Do you think the bottom fans are all that important there considering the 1060 is supposed to run pretty cool?
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2017 06:55
|
|
|
Honestly I think I would've been fine with no case fans and the stock Intel cooler, everything's been dandy since I installed the GPU back in September but I bought these parts on a whim a few weeks ago and only just got around to installing them yesterday so yeah
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2017 12:20
|
|
|
Zero VGS posted:Good question, this guy is going to find out the hard way apparently: https://smallformfactor.net/forum/threads/nfc-systems-s4-mini.96/page-76#post-29920 I really like this case. What PSU and graphics card are you going to stick in? Just watched a few videos and it looks like you need a massive power brick if you want ~200W.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2017 14:40
|
|
|
knox_harrington posted:I really like this case. What PSU and graphics card are you going to stick in? external DC-DC psus are cool and good, i would rather have a giant rear end power brick under my desk than on it
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2017 17:41
|
|
|
Here's a pic of my case with the power switch and HDPlex DC-DC installed, and the wrap around aluminum slab bezel removed: One awesome thing I didn't realize is there is a cutout in the chassis for the GPU. The intent was if your GPU would just barely fit, you could remove the bezel and use that to help you slide the GPU in then back, and reattach the bezel. I think what I might do however, is leave the bezel off. Then I could have a huge GPU sticking out of the case if I needed. Something like reference blower with backplate wouldn't be too vulnerable to damage. The bezel is some serious aluminum and weighs over a pound, so leaving it off makes sense if I mount this PC to the back of my monitor and still keep my Ergotron for being weighed down. According to the guy who makes this case, you can buy VHT vinyl dye to recolor the PSU wires to anything else you want, and the dye actually soaks into the wiring to bond permanently: https://smile.amazon.com/VHT-SP942-Vinyl-Black-Satin/dp/B000CPIN9S  knox_harrington posted:I really like this case. What PSU and graphics card are you going to stick in? I already have an HDPlex PSU to go in it, that can do 400w peak and maintains 250-300w no problem. I have an external Dell brick that does 330w, or I can use a battery pack (I have one I can use for VR backpack purposes). For GPU, I'm probably going to try out the Zotac GTX 1080 Mini, $610: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814500414 Malcolm XML posted:external DC-DC psus are cool and good, i would rather have a giant rear end power brick under my desk than on it Technically, the external brick would be the AC-DC converter, and the internal PSU is the HDPlex DC-DC converter. I feel this combo is the way to go for SFF, for several reasons: - External AC-DC brick sits out of sight on the floor, and doesn't contribute waste heat to the rest of the system - Emerging technologies such as "wide-bandgap" semiconductors https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wide-bandgap_semiconductor are enabling much smaller and more efficient AC-DC converters, such as this 65w laptop charger: https://smile.amazon.com/FINsix-Smallest-Universal-Accessory-Lightweight/dp/B01KJ4DOOA so in time we could have 300+ watt AC-DC adapters that can fit in the case or be inline with the plug you'd need anyways - You don't need the AC-DC converter at all if you have a suitable battery. This could be a battery pack (i.e. VR backpack) or if you're running the PC of your 12v car battery for example. The HDPlex doesn't seem to support 12v input though, which is too bad, but there's plenty of car-audio oriented Pico PSUs that do. Zero VGS fucked around with this message at 20:45 on Jan 29, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2017 20:41
|
|
|
A lot of the smallest systems I see have either like 350w (tops) flATX PSUs or like 200w DC-DC PSUs. What kind of components can you run with that kind of power budget? Everyone tells me that a 450w 80+ psu is the bare minimum for an i5 + 1070 gaming rig. Can you even run a 1050 with one power brick? Do you need a separate power brick + DC-DC PSU for the GPU itself?
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2017 20:47
|
|
|
lock stock and Cheryl posted:A lot of the smallest systems I see have either like 350w (tops) flATX PSUs or like 200w DC-DC PSUs. What kind of components can you run with that kind of power budget? Everyone tells me that a 450w 80+ psu is the bare minimum for an i5 + 1070 gaming rig. Can you even run a 1050 with one power brick? Do you need a separate power brick + DC-DC PSU for the GPU itself? A 240w Dell laptop brick with the HDPlex can run a GTX 1070 (tdp 150w) with something like a Skylake i5 7600 (65w) and have enough left for an nvme drive and the usual accessories. The Dell 240w can run a bit above spec if it stays cool, as can any DC-DC converters. Just don't try to overclock everything or it will get out of hand and possibly make your PC power off.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2017 07:42
|
|
|
lock stock and Cheryl posted:A lot of the smallest systems I see have either like 350w (tops) flATX PSUs or like 200w DC-DC PSUs. What kind of components can you run with that kind of power budget? Everyone tells me that a 450w 80+ psu is the bare minimum for an i5 + 1070 gaming rig. Can you even run a 1050 with one power brick? Do you need a separate power brick + DC-DC PSU for the GPU itself? Your "everyone" are also idiots who mindlessly copypasta myths about PSUs since the birth of Nvidia SLI.. It's next to impossible to break 300W on a stock i5 + 1070 setup, and most of time it should be running well under 200W in games.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2017 10:37
|
|
|
Zero VGS posted:Here's a pic of my case with the power switch and HDPlex DC-DC installed, and the wrap around aluminum slab bezel removed: real world switching PSUs have multiple stages including dc-dc to bus voltage after PFC and rectification from mains. There's some Chinese made dc-dc supplies that can provide 500w with a modded brick. Sic is already in use in high end PSUs (sic boost diodes) but gan is not even used in those finsix or avogy ( a goddamn fabless gan company) mini chargers because it's basically vaporware. High frequency switching = smaller supplies Power electronics are the major thing keeping us from miniaturization. Most of the board space is wasted routing power and poo poo, look at how simple haswell made mobos after Intel went fivr.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2017 12:01
|
|
Palladium posted:Your "everyone" are also idiots who mindlessly copypasta myths about PSUs since the birth of Nvidia SLI..  The reason people recommend 450+W power supplies is because efficiency is at its best at around 35-65% usage. Yes, you can pull up to (and over in some occasions) the design max in well designed models, but its not the best way to treat a PSU as that power from <90%design_max>*(1-Eff(<90%design_max>)) has to go somewhere: into the PSU components and atmosphere, encouraging wear and increasing the odds of it failing (if only by a tiny amount). It's not a myth.
|
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2017 19:05
|
|
|
Malcolm XML posted:gan is not even used in those finsix or avogy ( a goddamn fabless gan company) mini chargers because it's basically vaporware. Why do you say that? Gallium nitride is doing really well in the area of RF components. GaN is what is in white/blue LEDs and blue laser diodes. It is not vaporware--it is real technology. silence_kit fucked around with this message at 22:30 on Jan 30, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2017 22:05
|
|
|
Watermelon Daiquiri posted:
I tell you what is the AC power draw difference tested by Jonnyguru between a EVGA G3 750W and a Seasonic G360 outputting ~350W DC: A massive 7W. Exhaust temp difference? 1C. Jesus, how could anybody afford to run that smaller PSU without it exploding left and right when they won't be running close to the max to begin with? Besides you started a red herring about efficiency and still didn't prove how a typical gaming PC needing a 450W PSU isn't a flat out lie. Palladium fucked around with this message at 03:22 on Jan 31, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2017 03:19
|
|
|
silence_kit posted:Why do you say that? Gallium nitride is doing really well in the area of RF components. GaN is what is in white/blue LEDs and blue laser diodes. It is not vaporware--it is real technology. Sure but there are dozens of gan power electronics companies and you can basically only get samples at best for the higher voltage stuff. Avogy couldn't even build a gan based charger, they had to use SiC MOSFETs.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2017 07:18
|
|
Palladium posted:I'll tell you what the AC power draw difference tested by Jonnyguru is between a EVGA G3 750W and a Seasonic G360 outputting ~350W DC: A massive 7W. Exhaust temp difference? 1C. Jesus, how could anybody afford to run that smaller PSU without it exploding left and right when they won't be running close to the max to begin with? Oooo, nice it seems modern components are doing very well these days! That's a good sign (Of course those are both rather good parts, and I'd be more interested in how a lower end one (such as in a pre-built dell or something) would work) Theres also how the price difference between ~300 and ~600W supplies of good quality isn't THAT much, plus nice features like silent mode, modular, # of plugs etc that people sometimes care about. Of course, if you are overclocking that may complicate things, depending on what you are ocing and by how much. (also your first sentence was bugging me with the weird grammar/wording so I went ahead and fixed it for you. I hope this is what you meant to say?)
|
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2017 10:18
|
|
|
Watermelon Daiquiri posted:Oooo, nice it seems modern components are doing very well these days! That's a good sign (Of course those are both rather good parts, and I'd be more interested in how a lower end one (such as in a pre-built dell or something) would work) Theres also how the price difference between ~300 and ~600W supplies of good quality isn't THAT much, plus nice features like silent mode, modular, # of plugs etc that people sometimes care about. Of course, if you are overclocking that may complicate things, depending on what you are ocing and by how much. Well, my point is if you have to use a downsized 350W unit because of SFF it will be still perfectly adequate for a gaming PC if you build it around sane but still powerful perf/watt parts like the GTX 1070. Of course you can put a 330W 290X into a SFF but why would anybody want to. And BTW, an entire system with a 6700K + IGP can idle at low as 24W at the wall: http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1475-page5.html
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2017 12:07
|
|
|
Watermelon Daiquiri posted:(Of course those are both rather good parts, and I'd be more interested in how a lower end one (such as in a pre-built dell or something) would work) I can add that my Dell T20 micro-ATX E3-1225 v3/C226 (~i5-4460) system with 4x4GB ECC DDR3 DIMMs, a SATA SSD and a 3.5" SATA HDD running on a 280W 80+ Bronze PSU idles at around 30W in CentOS 7. Compared to my i7-920 system, which even swapped with an underclocked L5520 @0.9V and a fanless 80+ Platinum PSU used 70W idle, it's a lot more attractive as a home server. I currently use a Braswell N3150 system that takes about 20W with two DDR3L DIMMs and an SSD and while I haven't found much to beat that target and retain normal PC I/O connectivity options, if I ever find myself needing more speed I'm happy to know that Haswell is so efficient. I wish that there were consumer boards available with full mobile chips soldered-in, kind of like something between a NUC and a Xeon D system. The Braswell system that I use is a good starter NAS but if it had slots for multiple expansion cards and a little bit faster CPU then it would feel more perfect for the purpose. Coming from the other direction, I don't imagine that a desktop i3 idles that much higher than a mobile dual-core but without the option to undervolt on most boards there's no way to optimize it for 24/7 use.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2017 16:27
|
|
|
Just received an email from Raijintek saying that newegg has received a shipment of Metis Plus cases and they are waiting for them to list them on the website. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2017 20:28
|
|
|
I don't know really know what you guys are arguing about, but, my i7-5775C and GTX1080 computer draws 265W from the wall under a typical gaming load. That's a 65W CPU and 180W GPU on an 80+ Gold PSU. So I don't think efficiency is nearly as bad as that one guy is making it out to be. Or he is stuck in a time warp from 10 years ago.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2017 20:43
|
|
|
Funny how the 65w cpu is more likely to get water cooling before the 180w gpu.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2017 20:45
|
|
VulgarandStupid posted:I don't know really know what you guys are arguing about, but, my i7-5775C and GTX1080 computer draws 265W from the wall under a typical gaming load. That's a 65W CPU and 180W GPU on an 80+ Gold PSU. So I don't think efficiency is nearly as bad as that one girl is making it out to be. Or she is stuck in a time warp from 10 years ago. Well, my biggest point of contention is that I generally like to play it safe. Just because the interior temp of a PSU isn't too hot doesn't mean that individual components or joints/contacts/whatever/electromigration aren't being stressed by approaching their current limits. Like I said, modern components are better than they have been, but if you can get something that keeps its usage in the middle for not much more (if anything) than something smaller power wise. It's better to be safe than sorry, and all that, even if its rather safe these days to edge closer to the limit. Now granted, sfx psus aren't anywhere near as big a market at the moment (not to mention the DC DC converters) as regular ATX, so economies of scale (or the lack thereof) make the lower output models more attractive. I, for one, have OC'd 4790k (4.6) and 1070 (2.05) with not much else pulling power, and I hit 300W from a wall with a SF600. Could I just as well have gotten a SF450? Yes, but given my previous PSU was a decent 450W seasonic bronze near the end of its lifetime and gave my computer some minor issues, I decided to just play it safe and get the next model up. Yes, the sf450 would almost certainly have had no issues as it was new and better, but for one, I have having to go through the hassle of returning things, and for two if the 450W would almost certainly be good enough, the 600W definitely would.
|
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2017 21:09
|
|
|
Grrr, I scoured the internet and there's still no such thing as VLP (Very Low Profile) DDR4 desktop ram. Like, for Haswell I got these guys that were amazing for fitting coolers into the case: https://www.amazon.com/Crucial-Ballistix-DDR3-1600-PC3-12800-BLS8G3D1609ES2LX0/dp/B00A14ZTWE Nothing like that in DDR4 non-ECC yet though. Tons of it for ECC (server) ram but nothing that will run on a desktop.
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2017 23:20
|
|
|
Got my Zotac GTX 1080 Mini today:   If I take the wraparound bezel off my S4 Mini (it's basically just an aesthetic piece), the thing fits with a few millimeters sticking out. I'm probably going to make a plate to cover up the end of the GPU if I wind up going with this GPU. S4 Mini case with this GPU is easily the most powerful PC in the smallest space in the world, at least until someone makes a Thunderbolt dock where you stick a NUC and GPU together in it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2017 04:58
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 05:18 |
|
|
Zero VGS posted:S4 Mini case with this GPU is easily the most powerful PC in the smallest space in the world, at least until someone makes a Thunderbolt dock where you stick a NUC and GPU together in it. Wow I just looked up that case. That is smaller then eGPU thunderbolt enclosures.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2017 09:12
|
|
